Out of intrest, it Cosi's Trickster viable at the moment? I've been playing my old build online with 2 Cosi and it keeps becoming a 3/3 for U early on and backed up with Lords.
I think it's okay if you need extra 1 drops, since I think 8 is few in g1, but you have enough when you bring in things like Relics, Cages, Dismembers, etc. But the extre likelihood of pressure against combo is nice.
It's really bad on the draw.
[quote from="Curby »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/aggro-tempo/179828-deck-merfolk?comment=3775"]Maybe, I'm just unlucky, but my opponents ALWAYS have Mom turn 1 so I'm starting to doubt the effectiveness of Dismember in the board too.
I've frigging hated Dismember, but might not really understand its role. Could someone sell me on Dismember?
Or if I can skip it, what I need in place of it...
*got so excited I forgot to double-check it was the right card. thanks FANAttIC
While yes, you can play a U/B tezz shell, you'll find times you get clunkier hands because of spells costing too much mana on average and you'll end up with more lands than you know what to do with. I tried to take that away by reducing the land count (i play 17, thnkr played 18) and dropping the avg card cost to 1.1
Been playing a lot with your low-cmc GP list and have wondered are you and others still firm on 17/3 mana sources?
I've considered adding an 18th land or 4th Mox to BE BOARDED OUT ON THE DRAW.
Lose a decent amount of games because I get stuck on two mana sources.
How is the tron matchup. It feel pretty tough because of the eldrazi and all the relevant target pithing needle need to shut down.
Depends on version of Tron. Important thing is you don't need to rush to exile the Eldrazi. You can also set up situations where you strand it in their hand before decking them.
Ghost Quarter + Surgical can be practically game-ending as it gives you lots of time.
Pithing Needle is important to shut down Oblivion Stone and then Karn.
It's sometimes worth aggressively attacking their mana: i.e.: Needle on Explor Map or an egg.
Blue tron you have to time your spells around their counter magic.
[quote from="FANAttIC »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/aggro-tempo/179828-deck-merfolk?comment=3731"]I've liked Daze less and less as of late so I'm only playing 2 to keep people honest.
@barumun: Thanks for your input on that! I was also currently playing 3 Chalice and 1 in the board. I asked because Nikachu mentioned he'd play 4.
Definitely feels to me like the right number of Daze is 1 or 2.
Where the metagame is at now, I'm down with cutting Cliques. The other reason you'd want them somewhat is for Stoneforge Mystic and I think that card is pretty irrelevant right now.
Sidenote: Grixis Delver seems really strong and their depth of removal and 5/5's scare me. Has anyone played against it?
This is my current list, and it has seen moderate success. Some days I go 4-0. Some days I go 2-2. Some days I go 1-3. Though to be fair, I dont play it enough, so I often make mistakes where I should have known better.
Hey it's good to see a person's take on the list. Double Jitte main, that's a thing...
It's up to you of course. Only you know your metagame.
Thanks but I am going for a broad metagame though, at least one where miracles, S&T, and delver are prevalent.
I am down with Venser, not that attached to Manriki.
Just seems like I really don't want to incidentally have a G1 Jitte when I don't want it, but maybe it's still okay.
as far as lands, Caverns has mostly felt fine at 3 - I just like the guarantee. If it could be a Wasteland or a Mutavault I'd definitely want to, but I can't go down a land that doesn't cast Lords.
I see at the source that you've changed your mind.
I'm just gonna stick to here! You and FANNAttIC are both here and I've liked your insights. And yeah Standstill just isn't impactful enough on its own and is very demanding.
If I were guaranteed to draw 2 Vials in every game, I'd take that over being guaranteed to draw 0 every game.
Love that mentality and I feel ya on needing the extra mana to really function. I know we really need to be able to do multiple things those first few turns.
Sadly, I learned close-to-nothing at my LGS event today as I played vs Elves (L), loam pox(stole the W), uwr stoneforge(W), and classic pox (L)... all of those match-ups went as expected!
I really am leaning towards 4x Chalice of the Void (in place of standstills & 1 daze). But I will see how testing vs omnitell goes because it seems difficult without Chalice. The match-ups where it's bad I don't really mind. Maybe just 3-1 in 75. Would probably make my list look like this:
Running no Vials seems like a curious choice, especially if one of your targets is the Counterbalance-happy Miracles deck, and also if you're running four maindeck Chalices. Your sole answer to both is Cavern, which is vulnerable to Wasteland (though shielded by your Mutavaults) and Moon effects.
If you look back a few pages at recent lists, you'll find that many run 24-26 creatures. Have you tested this list, or are you proposing it as an idea that you will test in the future? I'm not saying it definitely won't work, but it's different enough to raise some eyebrows.
I just found vials so inconsistent that I grew to hate playing it. Felt fine playing without it. Only ever really want to play it on 1 so locking out your 1 cmc spells rarely hits you as hard as your opponent.
as far as creature count, I just wondered more if people have found ~28 to be way too many and that if 26 should really just be the top end.
Good feedback and I'm going to be trying vials most likely.
Merfolk was my first legacy deck when I entered the format in fall 2013. I plan to bring it back for SCG WORCESTER as it lines up well against the decks I want to beat.
I am pulling Merfolk out because I want to crush miracles & omnitell, while still having good game against Delver decks.
I think it's okay if you need extra 1 drops, since I think 8 is few in g1, but you have enough when you bring in things like Relics, Cages, Dismembers, etc. But the extre likelihood of pressure against combo is nice.
It's really bad on the draw.
Are you now? Time to sleeve up that Llawan, Cephalid Empress*
See you there!
I've frigging hated Dismember, but might not really understand its role.
Could someone sell me on Dismember?
Or if I can skip it, what I need in place of it...
*got so excited I forgot to double-check it was the right card. thanks FANAttIC
Been playing a lot with your low-cmc GP list and have wondered are you and others still firm on 17/3 mana sources?
I've considered adding an 18th land or 4th Mox to BE BOARDED OUT ON THE DRAW.
Lose a decent amount of games because I get stuck on two mana sources.
Depends on version of Tron. Important thing is you don't need to rush to exile the Eldrazi. You can also set up situations where you strand it in their hand before decking them.
Ghost Quarter + Surgical can be practically game-ending as it gives you lots of time.
Pithing Needle is important to shut down Oblivion Stone and then Karn.
It's sometimes worth aggressively attacking their mana: i.e.: Needle on Explor Map or an egg.
Blue tron you have to time your spells around their counter magic.
Definitely feels to me like the right number of Daze is 1 or 2.
For Chalice, 3 in main, 1 in board feels right.
Where the metagame is at now, I'm down with cutting Cliques. The other reason you'd want them somewhat is for Stoneforge Mystic and I think that card is pretty irrelevant right now.
Sidenote: Grixis Delver seems really strong and their depth of removal and 5/5's scare me. Has anyone played against it?
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
Spells:13
3 Chalice of the Void
4 AEther Vial
1 Daze
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Force of Will
3 Cavern of Souls
12 Island
3 Mutavault
3 Wasteland
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Gut Shot
1 Pithing Needle
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Echoing Truth
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Submerge
Running this list at the Worcester Open!
Currently 5-1 where the first round loss was from being late to the event.
Hey it's good to see a person's take on the list. Double Jitte main, that's a thing...
Thanks but I am going for a broad metagame though, at least one where miracles, S&T, and delver are prevalent.
I am down with Venser, not that attached to Manriki.
Just seems like I really don't want to incidentally have a G1 Jitte when I don't want it, but maybe it's still okay.
as far as lands, Caverns has mostly felt fine at 3 - I just like the guarantee. If it could be a Wasteland or a Mutavault I'd definitely want to, but I can't go down a land that doesn't cast Lords.
I'm just gonna stick to here! You and FANNAttIC are both here and I've liked your insights. And yeah Standstill just isn't impactful enough on its own and is very demanding.
Love that mentality and I feel ya on needing the extra mana to really function. I know we really need to be able to do multiple things those first few turns.
Sadly, I learned close-to-nothing at my LGS event today as I played vs Elves (L), loam pox(stole the W), uwr stoneforge(W), and classic pox (L)... all of those match-ups went as expected!
I really am leaning towards 4x Chalice of the Void (in place of standstills & 1 daze). But I will see how testing vs omnitell goes because it seems difficult without Chalice. The match-ups where it's bad I don't really mind. Maybe just 3-1 in 75. Would probably make my list look like this:
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the pearl trident
4 Silvergill Adept
1 Sygg, River Cutthroat
3 Phantasmal Image
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendillion Clique
4 Force of Will
1 Daze
1 Echoing Truth
4 Aether Vial
2 Wasteland
3 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls
12 Island
1 Sower of temptation
2 Gut Shot
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Flusterstorm
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Umezawa's Jitte
I do like the first Sygg especially since the 4th Phantasmal Image is sorta risky.
Wondering also if I can go down to 12 Island like this for that 2nd waste/4th cavern.
I just found vials so inconsistent that I grew to hate playing it. Felt fine playing without it. Only ever really want to play it on 1 so locking out your 1 cmc spells rarely hits you as hard as your opponent.
as far as creature count, I just wondered more if people have found ~28 to be way too many and that if 26 should really just be the top end.
Good feedback and I'm going to be trying vials most likely.
I am pulling Merfolk out because I want to crush miracles & omnitell, while still having good game against Delver decks.
With that in mind, list:
2 Cosi's Trickster
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the pearl trident
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Sygg, River Cutthroat
4 Phantasmal Image
4 True-Name Nemesis
1 Merrow Reejerey
4 Force of Will
1 Echoing Truth
1 Repeal
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
13 Island
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Sower of temptation
3 Gut Shot
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Flusterstorm
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Null Rod
Main critiques I'm looking to discuss:
with this setup, what are my weaknesses that other sideboard packages fix? And where is my sideboard making me extremely favored?
The Merrow Reejerey is there just to be creature 29 instead of spell 11 (2nd repeal.) Is 28 plenty or maybe a better creature slot?
I'm doubling down on Kiras because I want to counter red Delver decks. Are there better/additional options?
Glad to discuss any other choices made in this list.