People seem to complain that he can't force the opponent to attack him like Gideon 1.0, and yet they complain that he's no good because nobody is going to let him attack with 7or 8 or 12 counters.
You can't have it both ways. Either the opponents are going to beat Gideon down and NOT attack you, or they are going to attack you and let him get big. Yes, they could potential split the attack, but then you're still taking less damage.
It seems his ability to eat damage is just as good as the original, but his potential for dealing damage is much greater.
When I look at this card, I see a 2HG bomb. You could drop him on turn 4, use his +1, and then have your partner drop a Supreme Verdict or Mutilate or even Sleep to keep him alive. That's a very reasonable scenario that would put him at a solid 9-10 counters with no threats on the board.
The new Gideon does have a funny interaction with Domri Rade: Make him an indestructible creature that takes no damage, then make him fight another creatures. He deals it, but doesn't take it back.
Yes, I'm sure it will be characterized as "too cute by a half" for tournament play, and certainly isn't as simple as fighting with a Deathtouch creature, but it's still interesting.
Turn 1: Champion of the Parish
Turn 2: Lightning Mauler, or Ash Zealot, or Precinct Captain
Turn 3: Silverblade Paladin, or Splatter Thug, or Possibly some yet to be revealed Boros 3 drop
At this point how many decks will have creature advantage over you?
It seems like the IDEAL that you are either even on creatures or having a slight advantage. If your opponent has 3 creatures on turn 4, you can hit Gideon's +1 ability, put him at 8 counters, and then protect him for a turn. Turn 5 you can drop a Rancor or maybe an Ajani, Caller of the Pride and swing for a boatload.
I think time will tell, but I can definitely see some nasty potential for him. I could seem him being a staple in 2HG, where a partner can fog or Supreme Verdict after his initial +1 goes off.
I think Gideon will see play in Modern for one reason: This is the first planeswalker card that has a (+) ability that is affected by Doubling Season. Of course, Doubling Season affected the loyalty as the planeswalkers came into play, but for all of the other planeswalkers, the addition of loyalty is a cost. In the case of this Gideon, it's an effect.
In my own Superfriends deck, I rely on Savor the Moments (often forked by Chandra, the Firebrand) to abuse the planeswalker abilities. This card would make me consider dropping doubling season into that deck. At the very least, it makes for a nice threat to keep looming over the game, and can potentially keep people attacking him rather than you.
Spirit Loop functions the same as Spirit Link except it isn't wasted on a single guy.
No, it doesn't. You can't put a Spirit Loop on an opponent's creature to partially nullify it, as Spirit Loop can only be placed on a creature you control. You can do this with both Spirit Link and Vampiric Link.
Since they don't grant the lifelink ability, YOU gain the life when you enchant an opponent's creatures with these cards. So if they attack you with their 5/5 creature, you lose 5 life and then gain it right back. As long as you aren't at 5 or less, you survive. With every chump block, you make a net gain.
I can't count the number of times this has saved my bacon.
EDIT: I apologize for the thread necromancy here. This discussion was fresher in my mind than it probably should have been, and I didn't realize that it had become so old. I would have responded to this right away, but for some reason I wasn't e-mailed when the thread was updated.
Thanks EXACTLY what I was thinking. Change "human" to "Angel" with Artificial Evolution, and this card is practically (though not completely) impossible to kill.
If you are willing to taper it to the new modern format, you may want to consider including Savor the Moment. In a planeswalker driven deck, the ability to untap is secondary to the ability to take another turn, and Chandra's ability to fork the effect is kind of sick.
One thing you may want to consider in this deck is using Spirit Link instead of Spirit Loop. I think you will find Spirit Link superior for two reasons.
1) It is cheaper to play.
2) It is a great defensive spell, as it can be cast on an opponents creature. Since it doesn't actually grant the creature the Lifelink ability, cards like Spirit Link and Vampiric Link give YOU the life, even if you cast them on your opponents creatures.
I like your picture for the Sand Warrior. I did a Stangg Twin token recently, and I was hoping to do Sand Warrior next. The tough part was finding a good picture. Yours is pretty good.
Also, as the designer of that template (which I am happy to see in use), might I give you a pointer? Type "O" or "P" before the artist name. I can't remember which, but one gives you a white paintbrush, the other a black one.
And also, where's his p/t?
Thanks for the tips.
Looks like the third time is the charm. I've included the Legends set symbol, included the paint brush, remembered the P/T this time, and once again touched up the vertical line at the end of the title bar. Here it is.
Pichoro, when you get a change, take a look at the first of these three that I posted. You'll notice a vertical line in on the right side of the "N" in "TWIN." For some reason, every time I type the name "STANGG-TWIN" into the template, it adds that line. I've had to Photoshop it out every time. I don't know why, but I figured you would want to know about it. See if you can replicate it, when you get a chance.
I like it except for the set symbol. It should be Legends or just blank. Other than that, I think you chose a great piece of art to represent with.:)
Here's an update. I got rid of the blank set symbol (by the way, does anyone know where I can get set symbols for Magic Set Editor?), and fixed that silly vertical line that was forming after the last "N" in the title. This one should be a lot better.
Too bad the original didn't have this picture. This one fits Stangg very well.
I was looking through the stuff from the early days, and I noticed that there is only a Rukh token available. There are a lot more counters than that, so I figured that I would get the expansion of that set started.
I really doubt that you can win first turn with that pile without some god hand that contains Black Lotus, few Seething Songs and the storm.
That's not true. It doesn't require a Lotus. In fact, DragonStorm can win first turn in type 2.
Rite of Flame x3
Seething Song
Dragonstorm
Regardless of that, however, it has not way of getting around the staple card in type 1: Force of Will. Once they know what you are playing, they will counter the first Rite of Flame every time. Or (possibly) worse, they counter the last Seething Song and you go from playing Dragonstorm to 7 points of mana burn. Not a good thing.
As you said, the game has counterspells. What are you designing all this for?
If you can think of a way to bring counterspells to the other colours I'd be impressed (but if you try to make a Green counterspell I will hunt you to the ends of the Earth and eat your babies).
This was meant to be more of a flavor thing. I was saying that counterspells didn't exist in D&D (Magic Missile excluded), and Magic opened my eyes to them. Now that there is a way to do countermagic in D&D, I was looking for a way to port the countermagic mechanism into Magic.
Morsetlis and Alx have done a great job with this (though I would have chosen type over sub-type, but that's just me. I understand why Morsetlis didn't, and I would have chosen sub-type, too, if the artifact didn't tap).
If you can think of a way to bring counterspells to the other colours I'd be impressed (but if you try to make a Green counterspell I will hunt you to the ends of the Earth and eat your babies).
Any countering effect that comes in the form of an artifact inherently gives a counterspell to green. That was actually in the back of my mind when I started this; how to make the effect apply to all colors and (possibly) all players.
You can't have it both ways. Either the opponents are going to beat Gideon down and NOT attack you, or they are going to attack you and let him get big. Yes, they could potential split the attack, but then you're still taking less damage.
It seems his ability to eat damage is just as good as the original, but his potential for dealing damage is much greater.
When I look at this card, I see a 2HG bomb. You could drop him on turn 4, use his +1, and then have your partner drop a Supreme Verdict or Mutilate or even Sleep to keep him alive. That's a very reasonable scenario that would put him at a solid 9-10 counters with no threats on the board.
Yeah. That guild mage seems to make undying a little crazy. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed seems to have just gotten a lot better.
EDIT: And Geralf's Messenger!
Yes, I'm sure it will be characterized as "too cute by a half" for tournament play, and certainly isn't as simple as fighting with a Deathtouch creature, but it's still interesting.
It seems like the IDEAL that you are either even on creatures or having a slight advantage. If your opponent has 3 creatures on turn 4, you can hit Gideon's +1 ability, put him at 8 counters, and then protect him for a turn. Turn 5 you can drop a Rancor or maybe an Ajani, Caller of the Pride and swing for a boatload.
I think time will tell, but I can definitely see some nasty potential for him. I could seem him being a staple in 2HG, where a partner can fog or Supreme Verdict after his initial +1 goes off.
In my own Superfriends deck, I rely on Savor the Moments (often forked by Chandra, the Firebrand) to abuse the planeswalker abilities. This card would make me consider dropping doubling season into that deck. At the very least, it makes for a nice threat to keep looming over the game, and can potentially keep people attacking him rather than you.
No, it doesn't. You can't put a Spirit Loop on an opponent's creature to partially nullify it, as Spirit Loop can only be placed on a creature you control. You can do this with both Spirit Link and Vampiric Link.
Since they don't grant the lifelink ability, YOU gain the life when you enchant an opponent's creatures with these cards. So if they attack you with their 5/5 creature, you lose 5 life and then gain it right back. As long as you aren't at 5 or less, you survive. With every chump block, you make a net gain.
I can't count the number of times this has saved my bacon.
EDIT: I apologize for the thread necromancy here. This discussion was fresher in my mind than it probably should have been, and I didn't realize that it had become so old. I would have responded to this right away, but for some reason I wasn't e-mailed when the thread was updated.
Thanks EXACTLY what I was thinking. Change "human" to "Angel" with Artificial Evolution, and this card is practically (though not completely) impossible to kill.
1) It is cheaper to play.
2) It is a great defensive spell, as it can be cast on an opponents creature. Since it doesn't actually grant the creature the Lifelink ability, cards like Spirit Link and Vampiric Link give YOU the life, even if you cast them on your opponents creatures.
Give it a try. I think you will like the results.
Thanks for the tips.
Looks like the third time is the charm. I've included the Legends set symbol, included the paint brush, remembered the P/T this time, and once again touched up the vertical line at the end of the title bar. Here it is.
Pichoro, when you get a change, take a look at the first of these three that I posted. You'll notice a vertical line in on the right side of the "N" in "TWIN." For some reason, every time I type the name "STANGG-TWIN" into the template, it adds that line. I've had to Photoshop it out every time. I don't know why, but I figured you would want to know about it. See if you can replicate it, when you get a chance.
Here's an update. I got rid of the blank set symbol (by the way, does anyone know where I can get set symbols for Magic Set Editor?), and fixed that silly vertical line that was forming after the last "N" in the title. This one should be a lot better.
Too bad the original didn't have this picture. This one fits Stangg very well.
Here's an old favorite of mine.
That's not true. It doesn't require a Lotus. In fact, DragonStorm can win first turn in type 2.
Rite of Flame x3
Seething Song
Dragonstorm
Regardless of that, however, it has not way of getting around the staple card in type 1: Force of Will. Once they know what you are playing, they will counter the first Rite of Flame every time. Or (possibly) worse, they counter the last Seething Song and you go from playing Dragonstorm to 7 points of mana burn. Not a good thing.
This was meant to be more of a flavor thing. I was saying that counterspells didn't exist in D&D (Magic Missile excluded), and Magic opened my eyes to them. Now that there is a way to do countermagic in D&D, I was looking for a way to port the countermagic mechanism into Magic.
Morsetlis and Alx have done a great job with this (though I would have chosen type over sub-type, but that's just me. I understand why Morsetlis didn't, and I would have chosen sub-type, too, if the artifact didn't tap).
**Cough** Avoid Fate **Cough**
Any countering effect that comes in the form of an artifact inherently gives a counterspell to green. That was actually in the back of my mind when I started this; how to make the effect apply to all colors and (possibly) all players.
Great ideas, people. Keep them coming.