i assume they are sitting in a shop or a trade book somewhere waiting on me to get some cashflow so i can actually afford to feed this addiction we like to call a game.
what are your thoughts on using a card like ensnaring bridge in this deck? my friend has a pox variant that uses it and bottomless pit. the problem is his only damage dealers are the rack and cursed scroll.
i also think that damnation fits nicely in a pox list w/ maybe infest for a cheaper replacement vs weenie decks.
i don't know... maybe i'm just rambling on about nothing important. but i do think that ensnaring bridge is a nice creature stopper in the deck. i know i've sure been locked down by it more than once. i played against him using gro the other night and although i had all my fat threshold guys on table, his ensnaring bridge said, "no attacky for you!"
i recently constructed this deck w/ a list much like the list that won a ptq in nashville, tn. (my home state! woot!) anyway... i haven't gotten the chance to test it yet, but i will do so tonight against some competitive 1.x decks. as of right now i'm playing UG opposition in 1.x. i like it, but it's the only deck i'm all that interested in. so far i like flow rock, but i guess we'll see tonight when i test.
what decks does this have trouble w/? my buddy has a red deck wins variant using slith firewalkers and such, that i think flow will have a problem w/. the speed of his deck combined w/ using almost no nonbasics just leads me to believe he'll be at an advantage.
hey, guys. i haven't been very active on the boards for the past couple of months. i started posting here because i used to post almost constantly on mtgnews back in the day. anyway... i haven't posted in this vogue thread at all and didn't post in the last one for quite some time. i ask that i be removed from the members list on the main page. nothing against anyone in the clan, i think you all are very cool and fun to conversate w/, but i just don't feel the need to be part of a clan right now. and since i don't post that often, i don't really even deserve to be included in the memberst list. good luck w/ the clan, guys.
thanks for the link, lyracian. i like the deck, but as i stated above i don't have access to the search lands. so, although i would like to splash a color to put the odds more in my favor, my deck will pretty much have to stay mono black.
as it stands it can beat goblins, but it can also get beaten by goblins. i've only played it in 4 games vs goblins. i won the first two and lost the second two. then again i wasn't using s/b for any of them. so i don't know how it fares post s/b.
i liked the use of infest in the s/b, but if i cast it while they have goblin sledder in play already, it has potential to only get rid of a few critters. what do you guys think of running 2 engineered plague maindeck and 2 infest in the board? i'm afraid the infest won't help as much as the plague's do.
i don't think i would want to run pox in the deck. i just think that it would change the whole idea of the deck. it would go from being suicide black to being pox.
i would, however, like to see a list for this "red death" you guys are speaking of. can anyone point me in the direction of it?
i feel naughty, having been scolded by kokusho. but if you felt the forum move was needed, then by all means, move away.
these are all great ideas guys. but i really don't see how sui-black would be "too slow." first turn swamp, dark rit, guy, guy isn't really all that slow. attacking for 4-5 on turn 2 is pretty good. or first turn swamp, dark rit, duress, hymn can often times be a game winner. "target opponent starts the game w/ four cards." granted, that doesn't happen every game. and often times late game i'm in total top deck mode, which is probably why i need to try out confidant.
adding a color seems like a well rounded decision, but i just don't have the cards to support it. like i said earlier, in order to add a color i would definitely need to find the search lands in order for it to work as efficiently as possible. and, unfortunately, i just don't have the funds for them.
i kinda like the deck build above, but i don't really like that only four of my creatures (depending on what goes in the last slot) would have any sort of evasion.
but anyway, keep the ideas and suggestions coming guys. thanks for the help.
wow... i didn't really expect to get this many replies. thanks for the input guys.
extirpate is a fantastic idea, but as you said they aren't exactly cheap. if i were going to spend that kind of money i'd go ahead and get the search lands that i need.
i don't think i'd ever drop engineered plague for contagion because while engineered plague may, at times, be a dead card in my hand, it's absolutely brutal against goblins. contagion over terror might be something to consider tho, as it can possibly kill two creatures. i'm not really sure tho, as it only kills the little guys.
i stand by gremlin w/ his suggestion of therapy for the board. i think therapy is a tier 1 card against a lot of decks, but i don't have enough room to main deck it and i don't think i'd ever main deck it over duress. if i'm on the play in game 1 it's hard for me drop a swamp and cast therapy. often times a first turn duress could cripple an opponent. therapy's in the board against mostly combo oriented decks and probably goblins as well.
dark confidant would probably be a good addition to the deck, but i wouldn't know where to begin to remove cards. my creatures are 4-ofs for a reason. both sacromancy and carnophage are needed for the early game aggression. slayer and skirge are almost unblockable, and negator, although he's not a 4-of, really needs no explanation. i may do some testing using bob to see how he works out. i could take out 1 each of carnophage, slayer, and skirge. see how well he does in the deck.
a resolved confinement could very well spell game for me, but i don't think powder keg gets enchantments.
i don't really know what to expect w/ the meta. i got out of magic for quite a while and i've never played at this place before, so i don't know what i'm in store for when i get there. that's why i'd like a nice balanced s/b.
thanks again for the input guys. keep the advice coming.
that's only twelve cards so i would still need three more. and that's only if i run four therapy. maybe i only run three therapy and four of something else. well, at least we're making a little progress.
Ok. Perhaps Plague Sliver would be a good alternative to Negator then?
i'll give you this one... the sliver is good. i just don't think he's fast enough for the meta game. a first turn swamp, dark rit, negator can be crippling to some opponents. and the negator has trample. i feel that two negators main deck is a pretty good amount. if i get him, good, if not then he's not a necessity anyway. the rest of my cheap guys will go in for the beats.
Seems like you might want one more Negator and a couple of Hatreds.
negator is pretty bad vs anything running mountains, as is hatred. i run two negators because he's definitely a fat guy at 2B for a 5/5 trampler. but i only run two because he can sometimes hurt me moreso than he hurts my opponent. against anything w/ burn he gets boarded out almost immediately. and as for hatred, i think it started out as a needed card way back in '98 when exodus was first released, but i think it's lived it's life. it's just not needed. i say, swing in. they say, no blocks. i say before damage, cast hatred, paying however much life. they say, tap a mountain, lightning bolt your guy. i say obscenities. not a good scene for anyone. that's why i don't play hatred anymore.
i have a legacy tourney coming up in a little over a month. i'm having lots of problems finding a deck that i feel comfortable playing there. i'm extremely worried about goblins. my first choice was super gro because in my testing it goes about 50/50 vs goblins, but unfortunately i can't get the cards for it. so i saw how well chang did w/ UG madness, which is also another deck i love, but it's just not consistant enough against goblins. so i moved to 10 land stompy which just rolls over and dies to goblins! what is it w/ this stupid goblin deck? it's sooo freakin' good! so i've decided to just go w/ my all time favorite deck - suicide black. i threw two main deck engineered plague in last night and played my buddy's goblin deck against it and won 2-0. i was lucky enough to find both plagues early in game 1, and got turn 1 swamp, dark rit, plague on game 2. anyway... the list is below. i'm not really interested in changing the main deck unless someone just has something awesome that i feel needs to be added. what i'm looking for here is what you guys think of running this archtype in today's legacy metagame.
first of all, i know i's 61 cards. that's intentional. i've heard of versions splashing white or red. what cards are they splashing for? actually i'm just curious on this one. i know my deck needs fetch lands, but unfortunately i'm not blessed w/ the cashflow that is necessary for them.
my s/b used to run perish and oath of ghouls back in the day when i played this deck heavily in tourney's before, but i don't think perish will be needed very much in today's metagame. oath of ghouls could prove helpful against spot removal heavy decks, but what's really heavy w/ spot removal these days? i suppose it might prove useful vs goblins. and it works well against decks packing wrath or (by then) damnation. what would you guys recommend for sideboard? i thought about planar void over tormod's crypt, but i think the void is only really good if it's in the opening hand and even then, my opponent just has to destroy it to start taking control. i just think i'd rather be dropping the crypt instead.
anyway... although i'm not really looking to change the deck up that much, i am open to suggestions. i feel i'm a good enough player to do well at this tournament, i just want to be playing the best version of this deck possible. i've played this deck a lot in tournaments and in casual play/testing w/ my friends, so i know it like the back of my hand. it's the deck i feel most comfortable w/ so if you guys have any suggestions for the deck feel free to post. and i would really appreciate help w/ the s/b. i want a good solid s/b that's not just geared towards certain decks. i hate looking at my s/b after game 1 and not having anything to put in to help my odds.
sorry for the lack of posts lately, guys. the forums have been kind of unappealing to me. and i haven't seen, nor do i have the desire to see, john tucker must die. but my g/f wants to see it, so i'm sure i'll end up watching it before the weekend is over. i did however have a great thanksgiving. friday night i went to my local fnm. i didn't play. i haven't actually played a magic tourney in about four years! but i'm thinking of playing this friday. i wanna play zoo cuz i love that deck, but i don't know. saturday i watched the tenacious d movie, which was absolutely fantastic. i love the d, and i love jack black, so this movie was right up my alley. today it was back to work. but anyway, i just wanted to post and apologize for the lack of posting and fill you in on some interesting tidbits of the life of me.
what do you guys think of playing zoo next friday in my first magic tourney in four years? and to anyone who wants to discuss tenacious d, either the movie, or in general, feel free.
we'll just pretend you didn't say that, ok?
calibretto
i assume they are sitting in a shop or a trade book somewhere waiting on me to get some cashflow so i can actually afford to feed this addiction we like to call a game.
calibretto
i also think that damnation fits nicely in a pox list w/ maybe infest for a cheaper replacement vs weenie decks.
i don't know... maybe i'm just rambling on about nothing important. but i do think that ensnaring bridge is a nice creature stopper in the deck. i know i've sure been locked down by it more than once. i played against him using gro the other night and although i had all my fat threshold guys on table, his ensnaring bridge said, "no attacky for you!"
calibretto
what decks does this have trouble w/? my buddy has a red deck wins variant using slith firewalkers and such, that i think flow will have a problem w/. the speed of his deck combined w/ using almost no nonbasics just leads me to believe he'll be at an advantage.
calibretto
calibretto
as it stands it can beat goblins, but it can also get beaten by goblins. i've only played it in 4 games vs goblins. i won the first two and lost the second two. then again i wasn't using s/b for any of them. so i don't know how it fares post s/b.
i liked the use of infest in the s/b, but if i cast it while they have goblin sledder in play already, it has potential to only get rid of a few critters. what do you guys think of running 2 engineered plague maindeck and 2 infest in the board? i'm afraid the infest won't help as much as the plague's do.
calibretto
i would, however, like to see a list for this "red death" you guys are speaking of. can anyone point me in the direction of it?
calibretto
these are all great ideas guys. but i really don't see how sui-black would be "too slow." first turn swamp, dark rit, guy, guy isn't really all that slow. attacking for 4-5 on turn 2 is pretty good. or first turn swamp, dark rit, duress, hymn can often times be a game winner. "target opponent starts the game w/ four cards." granted, that doesn't happen every game. and often times late game i'm in total top deck mode, which is probably why i need to try out confidant.
adding a color seems like a well rounded decision, but i just don't have the cards to support it. like i said earlier, in order to add a color i would definitely need to find the search lands in order for it to work as efficiently as possible. and, unfortunately, i just don't have the funds for them.
i kinda like the deck build above, but i don't really like that only four of my creatures (depending on what goes in the last slot) would have any sort of evasion.
but anyway, keep the ideas and suggestions coming guys. thanks for the help.
calibretto
extirpate is a fantastic idea, but as you said they aren't exactly cheap. if i were going to spend that kind of money i'd go ahead and get the search lands that i need.
i don't think i'd ever drop engineered plague for contagion because while engineered plague may, at times, be a dead card in my hand, it's absolutely brutal against goblins. contagion over terror might be something to consider tho, as it can possibly kill two creatures. i'm not really sure tho, as it only kills the little guys.
i stand by gremlin w/ his suggestion of therapy for the board. i think therapy is a tier 1 card against a lot of decks, but i don't have enough room to main deck it and i don't think i'd ever main deck it over duress. if i'm on the play in game 1 it's hard for me drop a swamp and cast therapy. often times a first turn duress could cripple an opponent. therapy's in the board against mostly combo oriented decks and probably goblins as well.
dark confidant would probably be a good addition to the deck, but i wouldn't know where to begin to remove cards. my creatures are 4-ofs for a reason. both sacromancy and carnophage are needed for the early game aggression. slayer and skirge are almost unblockable, and negator, although he's not a 4-of, really needs no explanation. i may do some testing using bob to see how he works out. i could take out 1 each of carnophage, slayer, and skirge. see how well he does in the deck.
a resolved confinement could very well spell game for me, but i don't think powder keg gets enchantments.
i don't really know what to expect w/ the meta. i got out of magic for quite a while and i've never played at this place before, so i don't know what i'm in store for when i get there. that's why i'd like a nice balanced s/b.
thanks again for the input guys. keep the advice coming.
calibretto
good suggestions, gremlin. so now my s/b looks something like this:
2 engineered plague
4 cabal therapy
2 pithing needle
that's only twelve cards so i would still need three more. and that's only if i run four therapy. maybe i only run three therapy and four of something else. well, at least we're making a little progress.
calibretto
i'll give you this one... the sliver is good. i just don't think he's fast enough for the meta game. a first turn swamp, dark rit, negator can be crippling to some opponents. and the negator has trample. i feel that two negators main deck is a pretty good amount. if i get him, good, if not then he's not a necessity anyway. the rest of my cheap guys will go in for the beats.
calibretto
negator is pretty bad vs anything running mountains, as is hatred. i run two negators because he's definitely a fat guy at 2B for a 5/5 trampler. but i only run two because he can sometimes hurt me moreso than he hurts my opponent. against anything w/ burn he gets boarded out almost immediately. and as for hatred, i think it started out as a needed card way back in '98 when exodus was first released, but i think it's lived it's life. it's just not needed. i say, swing in. they say, no blocks. i say before damage, cast hatred, paying however much life. they say, tap a mountain, lightning bolt your guy. i say obscenities. not a good scene for anyone. that's why i don't play hatred anymore.
calibretto
4 sarcomancy
4 dauthi slayer
4 skittering skirge
2 phyrexian negator
3 terror
3 cursed scroll
2 engineered plague
4 hymn to tourach
4 dark ritual
19 swamp
first of all, i know i's 61 cards. that's intentional. i've heard of versions splashing white or red. what cards are they splashing for? actually i'm just curious on this one. i know my deck needs fetch lands, but unfortunately i'm not blessed w/ the cashflow that is necessary for them.
so far my sideboard consists of this:
2 engineered plague
my s/b used to run perish and oath of ghouls back in the day when i played this deck heavily in tourney's before, but i don't think perish will be needed very much in today's metagame. oath of ghouls could prove helpful against spot removal heavy decks, but what's really heavy w/ spot removal these days? i suppose it might prove useful vs goblins. and it works well against decks packing wrath or (by then) damnation. what would you guys recommend for sideboard? i thought about planar void over tormod's crypt, but i think the void is only really good if it's in the opening hand and even then, my opponent just has to destroy it to start taking control. i just think i'd rather be dropping the crypt instead.
anyway... although i'm not really looking to change the deck up that much, i am open to suggestions. i feel i'm a good enough player to do well at this tournament, i just want to be playing the best version of this deck possible. i've played this deck a lot in tournaments and in casual play/testing w/ my friends, so i know it like the back of my hand. it's the deck i feel most comfortable w/ so if you guys have any suggestions for the deck feel free to post. and i would really appreciate help w/ the s/b. i want a good solid s/b that's not just geared towards certain decks. i hate looking at my s/b after game 1 and not having anything to put in to help my odds.
thanks, for any comments or suggestions.
calibretto
what do you guys think of playing zoo next friday in my first magic tourney in four years? and to anyone who wants to discuss tenacious d, either the movie, or in general, feel free.
oh and congrats to tneill on her photoshoot!
calibretto
calibretto