i haven't been testing much legacy lately. i bought what i needed to complete my pox deck and then found out that the city champs tourney i was preparing for was cancelled. so i got annoyed w/ the whole legacy thing and decided to move on back to type 2 for a while.
the pox deck you posted looks pretty standard. nothing really all that spectacular about it. i'd probably take out the totem's, a spirit, and a smallpox and add 4 diabolic edict. that's all i see that would be worth changing. otherwise the deck looks pretty solid.
idk, 5 red sources doesnt seem enough even with the birds as well. Id put in the pain lands as well so you can more consistantly get that R that you need.
On another note, what are you using blood moon against? Dralnu doesnt scoop to blood moon. In fact, if they cant counter it on turn 3, then they just dont have counters. If they dont have counters, why arent you playing down big beats and smashing them about. It just doesnt make sense.
and i think the birds should count as red sources. and since blood moon only as one red in it's casting cost, eight (maybe 9 if you count the caverns) sources should be plenty. i wouldn't see a need to run the pain lands as well unless you wanted to change the deck around to a more gruul type build.
and if they can't counter or deal w/ the blood moon on t3 then it drastically slows them down. all they have to work w/ is their basic's which hurts. it makes spells w/ UU or BB harder to cast. *ahem* damnation *ahem* i didn't say they would scoop to it, but it makes games 2 and 3 more feasible for the mono green player. blood moon also hurts angelfire a little and it makes tron absolutely useless.
i agree that blood moon is only problematic for dralnu if it see's play. but as has been said before, dralnu sides out a lot of counters vs aggro decks to up it's removal spells. it may keep teachings and repeal to send the blood moon back to my hand, but next turn they have to deal w/ it again.
i don't agree that we should be siding in pump spells. i run something like 12 or 13 maindeck pump spells and this past friday at fnm i saw dralnu round 1. game 1 i rolled him. games 2 and 3 his removal left me holding nothing but useless pump spells. haste may be able to use this gameplan, but scryb/force and evasion very well cannot. the basic deck for them is creatures and pump, in order to side in pump they have to lose creatures. and that doesn't make sense.
s/b options is the only thing i absolutely despise about mono green anything. standard just has nothing for green to contribute to a good s/b to deal w/ today's meta.
edit: here is the list that placed 2nd in a kentucky open qualifier.
i think that dralnu is a horrible matchup for any build of mga and i don't really understand siding in leyline. it seems counter productive. game 1 they have counters and you roll over them. game 2 they side out counters for removal, and you side out (something) for leyline. if they are siding out counters, then why side in leyline at all? dralnu is such a hard matchup the 2nd and 3rd games because they have so much removal. they kill your targetable guys and damnation away all the rest. so when you have leyline in play and cast a guy that can't be countered, they say 'ok' and just sudden death him either eot or in response to pump.
this is why i recommended the splash of red to be able to include blood moon in the s/b. green's s/b choices are subpar at best. assuming they don't suspect you're sneaky little plan, then game 2 while they're drawing all their removal, you've got blood moon in play making it virtually uncastable.
they may very well have mana open by the time i get to three to drop it, assuming i even have a red source and a blood moon to drop. but don't most dralnu players side out most of their counters against us? replacing them w/ more creature kill? that's what i was under the impression of. i was thinking that most dralnu players kept only spell snare in the main after boarding in more creature kill.
i saw a build that looked interesting on tcgplayer.com. a splash of red for blood moon in the s/b. i don't see how that's a bad idea and it looks like the build faired pretty well in the tournament. blood moon would absolutely rape dralnu and most of the other troublesome decks in the format. i'm thinking about maybe changing mine around for a build like this one. time for some testing.
Le_Gambit: that looks pretty good, but is there anyway to take the transparency out and write the phrase on top of the images in a girly font? that would be superb.
sorry to be so much trouble. and sorry i didn't say something sooner, i haven't really been able to browse the boards all weekend.
i'm open to critique. i actually think i'd like to remove either blanchwood armor or moldervine cloak for more guys. there were times this friday that i'd run out of steam and go into top deck mode and would draw absolutely nothing but pump and land.
calibretto, i understand how pump can pretty much be 'like' burn to your opponents. but they're not burn to say the least. we play aggro. we need to prep for getting swept. you get ***'d. no creatures. you're in top deck mode. you draw that awesome pump instead of say hmmmm a char...sad face
uhm... yeah. did you read my second post w/ the updated list? i took out the pump because it wasn't near as good as i thought it would be. i added in more burn and better creatures. and now it plays a lot more smoothly.
i only got to test against angelfire this weekend, but i think this deck has a chance to rise to the top for tier 1 aggro decks. it may be as good, if not better than, BDW.
well i played MGA in a local FNM this weekend to a poor outcome. it was only 3 rounds and i went 0-2 drop. here's what happened.
match 1: dralnu 1-2
game 1: he drew into nothing useful at all and my guys swung ftw
game 2: i had basically no s/b for him so i decided to wing it. my guys come out and get him to 4 life. then he gets enough removal to clear my board and drops dralnu to make sure it stays clear. teferi wins him the game.
game 3: re-evaluate my s/b and decide there's still nothing for him. i have a decent hand but no 1-drops. i open w/ forest, go. and draws, lays an island, says go. i drop forest, ledgewalker into a spell snare. and that's pretty much how the rest of the game went. he either countered what i dropped, returned it to my hand eot, or killed it. i got a little through, but it died to damnation. he got teferi and swung in.
match 2: angelfire 1-2
game 1: he gets early angels and my guys just aren't big enough to deal w/ them.
game 2: it's a battle, but i eventually get enough guys after fighting off wrath of god and lightning helix to finish him off.
game 3: see game 1.
after this i dropped. this deck is good, but what i hate the most about it is it's lack of s/b options. there's good stuff, but nothing for the best decks in the format which are what i faced friday. i had no answers for what they were dropping and my guys just weren't normally fast enough. imo, the deck needs some evaluation to be able to compete against decks like angelfire and dralnu. especially when it comes to the s/b.
ok, so i changed my list up a bit. after testing i found that a lot of the stuff that seems good on paper actually isn't that good at all. here's the new list.
uhm... did you guys even read my decklist? edict is defnitely there. i could probably do well w/ going to 4 edict, and 2 terror. if i had jitte, that could also be a decent terror replacement. i agree that terror is not the best card for that slot, but the deck needs removal and that's my only choice.
oh and i run dauthi slayer mostly because he's 2/2 over 2/1. but the horror is good too. i used to run them both when this deck was legal in 1.x, but switched it up a bit when i got back into magic about six months ago.
in no way is terror bad. as i said before i'd prefer it to be sinkhole in that slot, but i don't have, nor can i afford, them. you name me a better 2 casting cost black removal spell that works at instant speed, and i'll change it.
sui black w/o shade is just that... it's sui black that doesn't run shade. shade may be good, but he's not necessary. i like him because he pumps, but i dislike him because he has no evasion what so ever. if the board is clear he's amazing, but if there are guys in your way then he gets blocked. i don't like being blocked. i'm not saying shade is bad, i'm just saying that i don't particularly like him in my build. the only reason i run the blockable guys that i do is because sarco and carno come out on turn 1, and bob nets me card advantage.
@ calibretto, playing the birds isn't a bad idea i suppose. The only downside I can see is that you cut four possible scab clan enablers in the elves. You may have enough sans the elves but you run a lot of pump too so have you cut some of the turn one burn by chance (rift bolt, seal of fire)? Anyway, good luck with the testing, just some things to consider.
that has definitely been considered, my friend. but i still like the birds better because they can also produce G or R if i need them too. which prevents me from being forced to damage myself w/ karplusan forest.
i also added skarrgan pit-skulk to the mix. this guy is just too good and imo, he's a must in just about any creature based deck running green mana. even if he's not bloodthirsted he at least serves as a scab-clan enabler, and i like being able to pump him to make him unblockable.
as i've said before, tho, it does well in goldfishing. (sometimes too good to be true) but i won't know anything for sure until i can do some testing this weekend. i think i'll post the list i've concocted tho just for some feedback.
i know i'm not running a whole heck of a lot of burn, but i like the pump spells because they are basically burn to my opponents face via my creatures and they can save my creatures if needed from my opponents burn. i'll know more about how much i actually like the pump after i get to test, tho. if i feel like i need more damage to clear the path for my guys to roll through, then i'll take out the pump and add more direct damage.
the pox deck you posted looks pretty standard. nothing really all that spectacular about it. i'd probably take out the totem's, a spirit, and a smallpox and add 4 diabolic edict. that's all i see that would be worth changing. otherwise the deck looks pretty solid.
calibretto
and i think the birds should count as red sources. and since blood moon only as one red in it's casting cost, eight (maybe 9 if you count the caverns) sources should be plenty. i wouldn't see a need to run the pain lands as well unless you wanted to change the deck around to a more gruul type build.
and if they can't counter or deal w/ the blood moon on t3 then it drastically slows them down. all they have to work w/ is their basic's which hurts. it makes spells w/ UU or BB harder to cast. *ahem* damnation *ahem* i didn't say they would scoop to it, but it makes games 2 and 3 more feasible for the mono green player. blood moon also hurts angelfire a little and it makes tron absolutely useless.
calibretto
i don't agree that we should be siding in pump spells. i run something like 12 or 13 maindeck pump spells and this past friday at fnm i saw dralnu round 1. game 1 i rolled him. games 2 and 3 his removal left me holding nothing but useless pump spells. haste may be able to use this gameplan, but scryb/force and evasion very well cannot. the basic deck for them is creatures and pump, in order to side in pump they have to lose creatures. and that doesn't make sense.
s/b options is the only thing i absolutely despise about mono green anything. standard just has nothing for green to contribute to a good s/b to deal w/ today's meta.
edit: here is the list that placed 2nd in a kentucky open qualifier.
3 Dryad Sophisticate
4 Giant Solifuge
1 Groundbreaker
2 Llanowar Elves
4 Scryb Ranger
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
3 Timbermare
1 Might of Oaks
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Moldervine Cloak
3 Stonewood Invocation
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Pendelhaven
4 Stomping Ground
3 Groundbreaker
3 Krosan Grip
2 Spectral Force
4 Spike Feeder
1 Whirling Dervish
calibretto
this is why i recommended the splash of red to be able to include blood moon in the s/b. green's s/b choices are subpar at best. assuming they don't suspect you're sneaky little plan, then game 2 while they're drawing all their removal, you've got blood moon in play making it virtually uncastable.
just my two and a half cents.
calibretto
much. you, my friend, are the man. thanks a ton!
calibretto
calibretto
here's the link:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=7380
calibretto
sorry to be so much trouble. and sorry i didn't say something sooner, i haven't really been able to browse the boards all weekend.
calibretto
i posted this a few pages back w/ my other tourney report. i did a lot better in that one. i made top 8 and lost round 1 to lightning angel beatdown.
4 skarrgan pit-skulk
4 silhana ledgewalker
4 dryad sophisticate
4 scryb ranger
4 groundbreaker
3 spectral force
4 might of old krosa
3 stonewood invocation
3 blanchwood armor
3 moldervine cloak
1 pendelhaven
and the worthless board
3 krosan grip
2 tormod's crypt
2 serrated arrows
4 ghost quarter
2 gaea's anthem
i'm open to critique. i actually think i'd like to remove either blanchwood armor or moldervine cloak for more guys. there were times this friday that i'd run out of steam and go into top deck mode and would draw absolutely nothing but pump and land.
calibretto
uhm... yeah. did you read my second post w/ the updated list? i took out the pump because it wasn't near as good as i thought it would be. i added in more burn and better creatures. and now it plays a lot more smoothly.
i only got to test against angelfire this weekend, but i think this deck has a chance to rise to the top for tier 1 aggro decks. it may be as good, if not better than, BDW.
calibretto
match 1: dralnu 1-2
game 1: he drew into nothing useful at all and my guys swung ftw
game 2: i had basically no s/b for him so i decided to wing it. my guys come out and get him to 4 life. then he gets enough removal to clear my board and drops dralnu to make sure it stays clear. teferi wins him the game.
game 3: re-evaluate my s/b and decide there's still nothing for him. i have a decent hand but no 1-drops. i open w/ forest, go. and draws, lays an island, says go. i drop forest, ledgewalker into a spell snare. and that's pretty much how the rest of the game went. he either countered what i dropped, returned it to my hand eot, or killed it. i got a little through, but it died to damnation. he got teferi and swung in.
match 2: angelfire 1-2
game 1: he gets early angels and my guys just aren't big enough to deal w/ them.
game 2: it's a battle, but i eventually get enough guys after fighting off wrath of god and lightning helix to finish him off.
game 3: see game 1.
after this i dropped. this deck is good, but what i hate the most about it is it's lack of s/b options. there's good stuff, but nothing for the best decks in the format which are what i faced friday. i had no answers for what they were dropping and my guys just weren't normally fast enough. imo, the deck needs some evaluation to be able to compete against decks like angelfire and dralnu. especially when it comes to the s/b.
calibretto
4 llanowar elves
4 kird ape
4 scab-clan mauler
4 sulfer elemental
4 giant solifuge
3 call of the herd
2 birds of paradise
4 rift bolt
4 char
3 sudden shock
3 volcanic hammer
//the pump
2 moldervine cloak
//the land
5 mountain
5 forest
4 karplusan forest
4 stomping ground
1 skarrg, the rage pits
1 pendelhaven
in testing this build against angelfire, but i feel like it goes about 50/50 w/ it.
calibretto
oh and i run dauthi slayer mostly because he's 2/2 over 2/1. but the horror is good too. i used to run them both when this deck was legal in 1.x, but switched it up a bit when i got back into magic about six months ago.
calibretto
in no way is terror bad. as i said before i'd prefer it to be sinkhole in that slot, but i don't have, nor can i afford, them. you name me a better 2 casting cost black removal spell that works at instant speed, and i'll change it.
sui black w/o shade is just that... it's sui black that doesn't run shade. shade may be good, but he's not necessary. i like him because he pumps, but i dislike him because he has no evasion what so ever. if the board is clear he's amazing, but if there are guys in your way then he gets blocked. i don't like being blocked. i'm not saying shade is bad, i'm just saying that i don't particularly like him in my build. the only reason i run the blockable guys that i do is because sarco and carno come out on turn 1, and bob nets me card advantage.
calibretto
that has definitely been considered, my friend. but i still like the birds better because they can also produce G or R if i need them too. which prevents me from being forced to damage myself w/ karplusan forest.
i also added skarrgan pit-skulk to the mix. this guy is just too good and imo, he's a must in just about any creature based deck running green mana.
as i've said before, tho, it does well in goldfishing. (sometimes too good to be true) but i won't know anything for sure until i can do some testing this weekend. i think i'll post the list i've concocted tho just for some feedback.
4 dark confidant
4 birds of paradise
4 giant solifuge
4 kird ape
4 scab clan mauler
4 skarrgan pit-skulk
4 char
3 sudden shock
3 volcanic hammer
//the pump
4 brute force
3 might of old krosa
//the land
5 mountain
4 karplusan forest
4 stomping ground
4 overgrown tomb
1 forest
1 pendelhaven
1 skarrg, the rage pits
i know i'm not running a whole heck of a lot of burn, but i like the pump spells because they are basically burn to my opponents face via my creatures and they can save my creatures if needed from my opponents burn. i'll know more about how much i actually like the pump after i get to test, tho. if i feel like i need more damage to clear the path for my guys to roll through, then i'll take out the pump and add more direct damage.
calibretto