I haven't heard anyone talk about Fanatical Offering. How does it weigh up against Village Rites and especially Deadly Dispute? I feel the low cost on Rites and the treasure token on Dispute are both better than this one. Is it worth running a third?
Not positive on cuts yet, but at 540 these are what I'm looking at. Honorable mentions to Deep-Cavern Bat and the other Restless lands.
White
Get Lost - Probably cutting Fateful Absence. Seems right.
Blue
Malcom, Alluring Scoundrel - Mercurial Spelldancer, you were so young.
Black
Bitter Triumph - I've cut all of the Doom Blade variants at this point, but I think I like the upside on this more than the convoke-ability of Lethal Scheme.
Red
Inti, Seneschal of the Sun - Probably Krenko
Trumpeting Carnosaur - Probably Glorybringer
Green
Sentinel of the Nameless City - Might be time to let the Yoda altered Thrun go. Sad.
Multi
Molten Collapse - Dreadbore. Obv.
Restless Vents - Mount Doom, you were so young.
Restless Prairie - Seems on par with different upsides to Stirring Wildwood. Worth the swap, at least for a while.
Anim Pakal, Thousandth Moon - Cutting Krenko in red for a better Krenko in Boros. Finally parting with Lightning Helix, I think.
All right. Set's spoiled. I'm gonna need those blog posts and articles, pronto.
This set looks like a real banger for cubes of all shapes and sizes. At 360 I'm trying to make room for ten cards! That's insane. I don't know if I'll fit them all, but I'm gonna try.
Helping Hand
Spyglass Siren
Confounding Riddle
Deep-Cavern Bat
Bitter Triumph
Geological Appraiser
Cenote Scout
Poison Dart Frog
Kutzil, Malamet Exemplar
Bartolome del Presidio
I'm having a really hard time finding cuts in red and green. We've gotten so many great cards for those colors recently!
Agreed. Every now and then we get a set symbol like this. It looks cool, but it's impossible to tell rarity. I'm seeing rares previewed that I think are uncommons at first.
Confounding Riddle is a heckuva upgrade to Supreme Will, a card which is reasonably popular as it is. Adding the extra mana payment to the counter and graveyard synergies is a huge win and an exciting sign for where they might push 3 mana counters in the future.
and approximately a million clones of MatEffect's peasant list (MTGS User Mat around here).
This made me laugh xDD. Almost every day my Cube is cloned at least once.
Hey, man, you have the most popular peasant cube on CubeCobra. That's pretty damn cool! I actually reference your list a lot and look forward to your in depth blog update with each set.
Oh, me too. I wouldn't say I enjoy tinkering more than drafting, but it's pretty dang close. I'm on CubeCobra all the time comparing my lists to other similar lists or going down the Scryfall rabbit hole. I just felt like I saw that more with the peasant lists I've been looking through than I do with Legacy/Vintage cubes. Cube is a tinkerer's paradise!
If there's one thing I'm learning while going through these lists, it's that peasant cubers are tinkerers. You expect to see a thought out set update of X swaps with maybe a few smaller swaps in between releases (however frequent that may be). Instead everyone just constantly making swaps, multiple times a week in some cases. Peasant is wild.
In a "normal" peasant environment absent other fast mana and opportunities for explosive early turns, Dark Ritual sticks out like a sore thumb. If you play it on turn one or two, it's probably a blow out for your opponent. If you draw it late, there's not much to do with it. I don't run it in my 360 list. In fact, only three cubes from last year's polled lists ran it.
With that said, I might be willing to try it out if I were go to up to 450. IMO, options - even in today's FIRE world - drop off significantly for peasant once you pass the 360 mark. I would probably include DR, at least for a test, if my cube were a bit larger just due to lack of powerful options.
Thanks for the kind words, igurmendez. I certainly appreciate that there are other people around the world that find the yearly average list as useful as I do. I've also worried about the potential for this project to make for homogenous peasant lists, which isn't necessarily what I'm looking for. The one thing worth pointing out with that is that even if you were trying to build a tight 360 list using the average cube as a guide, you would still need to make a few of your own choices to get your numbers right. You'd need to add some in some colors, removes some in others. Even a tight 360 would have to make a few personal tweaks, so I think that helps - even if only a little - to fight the hive mind.
For example, here is the 2022 list filtered down to as close to 360 as you can get without going over.
Thanks, Centod! Your cube is already in the list for inclusion. I want to get as many cubes included as possible this year. I'm going back through the ones I've pulled out with WOE updates and trying to view them objectively. As long as the cube seems to have an owner who is trying to support a healthy environment and is regularly updating with each release, it'll get included. I'm up to about 40 or so definite includes, but I still have about 200 cubes to run through. I'm hoping to hit at least 100 and I think I'll probably end up with more than that.
Thanks for the responses, friends. I should have labeled my irk list as "Things that mildly inconvenience me during this project specifically, in which I am also guilty of."
Honestly, the only thing on that irk list that matters is the fact that CubeCobra's search feature is so bad. With sites like EDHRec and Archidekt offering so many features for Commander players and decks, it just kind of sucks that CubeCobra is not just better at what it offers. All I want is to sort the cubes by date last updated, so I can stop looking after a certain point.
I think I will wait for post-Ixalan to pull the data. I have vacation the week of Christmas, so that will be a good time for me to do the mining and give folks about a month or so to get those Ixalan updates in.
RE: Non-MTGS cubes
The problem we have here is a simple lack of participation which seems to get lower and lower as each year passes. I think there's about 10, maybe 20 tops, of us peasant cubers who post here even somewhat regularly. Being fair, even 20 cubes is a tiny sample size. The last couple of years I've mined CubeCobra for recently updated lists and looked for lists that appeared to have similar mindsets in how they structure their updates and what they want from the peasant cube experience that we have here. I also always include Klug's common/uncommon cube, which was one of the first of its kind here on MTGS 100 years ago even though he doesn't post here anymore.
After going through as many cubes as I have over the past few days there is a lot (and I mean a metric crap ton) of chaff on CC. Cubes that haven't been touched in over four years, cubes that were uploaded and then forgotten, cubes labeled as 360 with 348 cards in them, and approximately a million clones of MatEffect's peasant list (MTGS User Mat around here). I am going through the cubes and making notes of cube links and cube owners as I go. I'm pulling out any cubes that have been updated through WOE currently. I think when I do the final data pull in December, I'll limit to only cubes that fit the MTGS mold so to speak. That's not to say that MTGS is some sort of elitist cube community, but I am looking for data surrounding cubes that want to foster a healthy environment, support certain strategies and themes, and are looking to run at least the all stars from each set release. I want to include cube owners who do what we do and comb that final day spoiler each season looking for common and uncommon gems that weren't already previewed. I think including the cubes that are only including "cards I own" doesn't really line up with the cube philosophy for most of us here who probably already have our pre-order list started for Ixalan and doesn't provide much in the way of good data when looking for an "average" list.
RE Cube Follows
I follow the cubes I want to easily get back to again. Cubes that have similar goals as my own, so I can compare my list to there's and see what they are doing that I might want to try. It's nice to be able to just get to those lists under Social on CC and not have to have a bunch of favorites saved in Chrome or search for them each time. It's especially useful when you're looking for niche cubes (like set or plane themed cubes) to gain inspiration from.
First off, thank you so very much for taking the time to put these together every year! Almost every time I am debating on cuts, or whenever I am unhappy with a card, part of my process is to pull up last year's thread and check the cube or the googledoc and see what the community is running. I think it's immensely valuable and I'm looking forward to this year's edition.
I started doing it mostly for selfish reasons because I wanted the info myself. I'm glad that others in the community have found it useful as well. It's also fun to see "Clone of MTGS Average..." as I scour through the CubeCobra lists. My tiny impact on the cube community.
I'd say wait until after Ixalan but, honestly, whatever makes sense for you is totally fine.
I may wait until December. I've decided to go ahead and power through the zero follower lists as well for all lists updated with WOE in some form or fashion (206 lists so far!!). I can run back that same sample size in December and it should give us everything updated through the most recent two sets, and possibly even a few random Dr. Who additions as well.
I can speak on two of these that I am guilty of.
For sure. I'm guilty of several myself as well. I get my set update completed then notice chatter about a card I completely overlooked and add that one card later. And I accidentally forget to uncheck (or check) the blog post box all the time. These complaints are certainly not meant to slight others. They are just things that make this project a bit more difficult to parse.
It's getting close to that time of year again, friends. I'm debating if I should put it together now after WOE or wait until December after Ixalan. I'm making the thread now for some input from the community here. Should I do it now or wait?
While I'm here, some things to note. First there were 11 cubes from last year's list that fell off for not having been updated. Second, despite that, I've done a deep dive for cubes labeled as peasant on CubeCobra and I'm up to 160 recently updated lists. Another question for the community - Even though all these lists have been recently updated (either CMM or WOE), not all cubes are created equal. Should I include lists that have WOE cards no matter what or only include lists with WOE cards that appear to have been a comprehensive update? Example being a list that is updated through WOE, but has only included one seemingly random WOE card.
I did exclude cubes that seemed to be specialty (Arena legality, HEAVY multicolor focused, EDH cubes, Set/Plane cubes, Pioneer legality).
On my way down this rabbit hole, I've found some things that make me feel a certain way.
Things that irk me
CubeCobra's lack of filters (no sort by updated) - I sorted by popularity and went down through all cubes with at least 1 follower. Lots were filtered out for not having been updated in years.
Blog posts for every tiny aesthetic or tag change - Please stop doing this. I think it's a problem with CC's latest update, but do we really care if the cube owner updated a card from Non-Foil to Foil or tagged it as "RB Sacrifice"?
Updates that aren't titled (WOE Update, Small Update, Adding X Archetype, etc) - Title your blog post, friends. For legit updates, let the people know what you're doing.
Multiple small updates for the same set - Group your updates. I kept seeing random one-sy two-sy updates for recent sets. A card here, a card there.
No blog posts at all - At least post your cube updates.
Tag colors for pimped cards when the cube is almost entirely pimped - When I look at a cube list and the entire thing except a few cards are color coded with a single color, it's jarring. It irks me when I look at the tags and see that those cards are tagged as "pimped" or "foil". Just tag the non-pimped ones so your cube list doesn't look so weird.
Things that make me sad
Cubes with lengthy Overviews that haven't been updated in years - I saw several cubes with very in depth overview sections including archetype definitions and card images only to find that the cube itself hadn't had an update in a very long time. Made me wonder what happened there.
Things that confuse me
Cubes with recent updates, but no new card inclusions - You updated your list yesterday, but still haven't included anything from CMM or WOE? What's going on?
Recent updates that don't include “staples” - Maybe this makes me a bit of a cube elitist, but you had a full WOE update and didn't include Embereth Veteran or Cheeky House-Mouse when you're running Jackal Pup and Elite Vanguard? Why, tho?
Recent updates that include only one card from standard sets - My assumption on this one is people just update with "Cards I Own" and bought a pack or two of WOE and added what they pulled. I guess not every cuber is crazy like those of us on this forum with fully fleshed out set updates before the set even drops in paper.
Utilizing the Maybeboard - It's nice to have a place to list the on-deck cards, but it's the blog posts that confuse me. Moved from maybeboard to mainboard. Reading through those posts made my brain fuzzy.
Singleton breaks - I know, I know... singleton breaking is a thing that people do and I'm not here to judge you for it. But what I will say about it is that it f's up my card list and overrepresents those cards if they appear five times in a single cube.
Anyway - Let me know what you think about timing of the 2023 list and if all 160 cubes should be included or if I should filter down to only those with comprehensive (like-minded) cube updates akin what we see on the regular around here.
Also, also - Should I power through the 0 follower lists? We might even get up to 200 lists this year if so.
This person sounds like a guy we used to draft with that we no longer invite. He was one of those people that always had a reason he lost. And not like, "Dang, I didn't draw my out. GGs." More like, "If I had drawn so and so I would have got you." Never a mistake on his part and always a problem with something he couldn't control.
I took a look at your list and, while you are running cards that I would personally replace, it is in no way "*****". The list looks fun with well supported archetypes. It sounds to me like this person is just salty and maybe you'd be better off to find a different eighth for cube night. They clearly could have been in a WB aggro strategy and looking at the list that seems like it could very well be a decent option.
At 540, I would want all three.
White
Get Lost - Probably cutting Fateful Absence. Seems right.
Blue
Malcom, Alluring Scoundrel - Mercurial Spelldancer, you were so young.
Black
Bitter Triumph - I've cut all of the Doom Blade variants at this point, but I think I like the upside on this more than the convoke-ability of Lethal Scheme.
Red
Inti, Seneschal of the Sun - Probably Krenko
Trumpeting Carnosaur - Probably Glorybringer
Green
Sentinel of the Nameless City - Might be time to let the Yoda altered Thrun go. Sad.
Multi
Molten Collapse - Dreadbore. Obv.
Restless Vents - Mount Doom, you were so young.
Restless Prairie - Seems on par with different upsides to Stirring Wildwood. Worth the swap, at least for a while.
Anim Pakal, Thousandth Moon - Cutting Krenko in red for a better Krenko in Boros. Finally parting with Lightning Helix, I think.
This set looks like a real banger for cubes of all shapes and sizes. At 360 I'm trying to make room for ten cards! That's insane. I don't know if I'll fit them all, but I'm gonna try.
Helping Hand
Spyglass Siren
Confounding Riddle
Deep-Cavern Bat
Bitter Triumph
Geological Appraiser
Cenote Scout
Poison Dart Frog
Kutzil, Malamet Exemplar
Bartolome del Presidio
I'm having a really hard time finding cuts in red and green. We've gotten so many great cards for those colors recently!
Someone on Reddit called it Supreme William.
Hey, man, you have the most popular peasant cube on CubeCobra. That's pretty damn cool! I actually reference your list a lot and look forward to your in depth blog update with each set.
With that said, I might be willing to try it out if I were go to up to 450. IMO, options - even in today's FIRE world - drop off significantly for peasant once you pass the 360 mark. I would probably include DR, at least for a test, if my cube were a bit larger just due to lack of powerful options.
For example, here is the 2022 list filtered down to as close to 360 as you can get without going over.
NOTE: Copy/Paste this. Clicking it won't work.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/mtgs2022?f=tag:"40-44 Lists" or tag:"45-50 Lists" or tag:"35-39 Lists" or tag:"30-34 Lists" or tag:"25-29 Lists" or tag:"20-24 Lists"
Honestly, the only thing on that irk list that matters is the fact that CubeCobra's search feature is so bad. With sites like EDHRec and Archidekt offering so many features for Commander players and decks, it just kind of sucks that CubeCobra is not just better at what it offers. All I want is to sort the cubes by date last updated, so I can stop looking after a certain point.
I think I will wait for post-Ixalan to pull the data. I have vacation the week of Christmas, so that will be a good time for me to do the mining and give folks about a month or so to get those Ixalan updates in.
RE: Non-MTGS cubes
The problem we have here is a simple lack of participation which seems to get lower and lower as each year passes. I think there's about 10, maybe 20 tops, of us peasant cubers who post here even somewhat regularly. Being fair, even 20 cubes is a tiny sample size. The last couple of years I've mined CubeCobra for recently updated lists and looked for lists that appeared to have similar mindsets in how they structure their updates and what they want from the peasant cube experience that we have here. I also always include Klug's common/uncommon cube, which was one of the first of its kind here on MTGS 100 years ago even though he doesn't post here anymore.
After going through as many cubes as I have over the past few days there is a lot (and I mean a metric crap ton) of chaff on CC. Cubes that haven't been touched in over four years, cubes that were uploaded and then forgotten, cubes labeled as 360 with 348 cards in them, and approximately a million clones of MatEffect's peasant list (MTGS User Mat around here). I am going through the cubes and making notes of cube links and cube owners as I go. I'm pulling out any cubes that have been updated through WOE currently. I think when I do the final data pull in December, I'll limit to only cubes that fit the MTGS mold so to speak. That's not to say that MTGS is some sort of elitist cube community, but I am looking for data surrounding cubes that want to foster a healthy environment, support certain strategies and themes, and are looking to run at least the all stars from each set release. I want to include cube owners who do what we do and comb that final day spoiler each season looking for common and uncommon gems that weren't already previewed. I think including the cubes that are only including "cards I own" doesn't really line up with the cube philosophy for most of us here who probably already have our pre-order list started for Ixalan and doesn't provide much in the way of good data when looking for an "average" list.
RE Cube Follows
I follow the cubes I want to easily get back to again. Cubes that have similar goals as my own, so I can compare my list to there's and see what they are doing that I might want to try. It's nice to be able to just get to those lists under Social on CC and not have to have a bunch of favorites saved in Chrome or search for them each time. It's especially useful when you're looking for niche cubes (like set or plane themed cubes) to gain inspiration from.
I started doing it mostly for selfish reasons because I wanted the info myself. I'm glad that others in the community have found it useful as well. It's also fun to see "Clone of MTGS Average..." as I scour through the CubeCobra lists. My tiny impact on the cube community.
I may wait until December. I've decided to go ahead and power through the zero follower lists as well for all lists updated with WOE in some form or fashion (206 lists so far!!). I can run back that same sample size in December and it should give us everything updated through the most recent two sets, and possibly even a few random Dr. Who additions as well.
For sure. I'm guilty of several myself as well. I get my set update completed then notice chatter about a card I completely overlooked and add that one card later. And I accidentally forget to uncheck (or check) the blog post box all the time. These complaints are certainly not meant to slight others. They are just things that make this project a bit more difficult to parse.
<3
While I'm here, some things to note. First there were 11 cubes from last year's list that fell off for not having been updated. Second, despite that, I've done a deep dive for cubes labeled as peasant on CubeCobra and I'm up to 160 recently updated lists. Another question for the community - Even though all these lists have been recently updated (either CMM or WOE), not all cubes are created equal. Should I include lists that have WOE cards no matter what or only include lists with WOE cards that appear to have been a comprehensive update? Example being a list that is updated through WOE, but has only included one seemingly random WOE card.
I did exclude cubes that seemed to be specialty (Arena legality, HEAVY multicolor focused, EDH cubes, Set/Plane cubes, Pioneer legality).
On my way down this rabbit hole, I've found some things that make me feel a certain way.
Things that irk me
Things that make me sad
Things that confuse me
Anyway - Let me know what you think about timing of the 2023 list and if all 160 cubes should be included or if I should filter down to only those with comprehensive (like-minded) cube updates akin what we see on the regular around here.
Also, also - Should I power through the 0 follower lists? We might even get up to 200 lists this year if so.
I took a look at your list and, while you are running cards that I would personally replace, it is in no way "*****". The list looks fun with well supported archetypes. It sounds to me like this person is just salty and maybe you'd be better off to find a different eighth for cube night. They clearly could have been in a WB aggro strategy and looking at the list that seems like it could very well be a decent option.