A New and Exciting Beginning
 
The End of an Era
 
Exclusive: Sword of Truth and Justice
  • 2

    posted a message on Ranking Project 2019 Planning
    I love having lists of ten for a number of reasons.

    First, it's really nice if you're constrained by budget. A lot of these really good multicolor cards also happen to be really good in other formats. Some of what we might consider staples go for 20 bucks or so right now for nonfoils. While that may not be expensive to everyone, it certainly can be to some. Being able to go down the list and skip over a card that's seeing play in multiple formats in favor of a more budget, but still perfectly acceptable option is nice.

    On the same note, maybe that staple is too powerful for your environment. Maybe you don't want planeswalkers. Heck, maybe you're just tired of this card you've been running since 2009 and want some inspiration on a replacement to change things up for your next draft. A ten card list provides plenty of alternative options.

    Ten card lists are also great for people who want to run a large cube, especially if they're looking to keep multicolor at around that 8-10% mark and want to know what's commonly seeing play in slots 5-8.

    It's really sad to see the participation numbers have dropped so low for this round of voting. The guild lists are my favorite ones to make.

    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I'm somewhere near the same page as FunkyDragon when it comes to op equipment like Warhammer and Clamp. For Warhammer specifically, it's really easy to ride it to victory in a lot of normal situations. Your opponent's on UB and didn't counter it? Well, you're probably winning that game. Against nearly every other color combo, though, there's likely an answer somewhere in your opponent's deck for the Warhammer itself. Granted they have to draw it and cast it, but the point stands. I've seen Warhammer be the sole reason a player won and I've seen it do actual nothing from being answered immediately.

    For something like Clamp, a lot has to go right for it to bury your opponent in card advantage. As someone who has both peasant and powered cubes, I've found that in peasant Clamp is good but mostly does what I think it was intended to do. It attaches to a creature, and then nets some profit when that creature dies. It's not typically 1, Sac a creature: Draw two cards. We don't have the Bitterblossom or Rabblemaster variants to really break it. Don't get me wrong, I've certainly seen Clamp be disgusting and, again, be the sole reason a player was able to win. Sometimes you're at parity or even behind, play Clamp, get rid of a couple useless X/1s and suddenly you've got a grip full of cards and you're back in the game. That's not typically the normal line, though.

    I'm not trying to down play how powerful these two cards are or say that anyone is somehow wrong for choosing not to include them for power reasons. They can both be insane. But they don't win every game they hit the board, and they're not unanswerable. I don't think you need to go over the top with answers just for these cards, but every color that can should have answers available in the draft. And for me specifically, I like having 'bombs' in the draft. I think it adds to the fun of the overall draft and play experience.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Ranking Project 2019 Planning
    Quote from rantipole »
    Changing the subject, what are we doing with the draft-matters cards and the conspiracies?


    I think we could do a Top 20 (or even maybe 25) Conspiracy / Draft Matters / Un-Cards, since a lot of cubers choose to lump these types of cards together into a separate add-on module and not cube with them all the time.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on This or That discussion.
    Looking at your list, I'd cut Nimble Obstructionist to make room for Mana Drain. It was one of those cards that looked really cool on paper, but always felt just below the curve when it came up. It really needed to be an ETB Stifle on a 3/1 flash flying to be cube worthy, imo.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Ranking Project 2019 Planning
    Quote from wtwlf123 »
    Quote from Calibretto »
    "These are the first twenty cards I'd include in X section in order of importance"?


    The problem with this prompt is curve. A 20-card section wouldn't contain the 20 "best" white cards.


    I mean, yeah, but how many people are building cubes with 20 card sections? If I were building a 360 card cube with 50 per section, the first 20 cards I'd include would likely be the same first 20 cards I'd include if I were building a 540 card cube with 70 cards per section.

    But I feel like we're all just arguing semantics here. Ultimately, while I do find the data we get from these top 20 votes to be interesting to read through, I don't think it has much value in terms of the lists of cards we end up with. I don't mean to be rude if that comes off that way.

    The type of data that I think is more valuable is either a top X for each casting cost in each color or just a cube comparison that results in how many cubes run specific cards. Looking a list of the top X White 5 drops is helpful for new cubers looking to get into the format and for veteran cubers who may just be looking for something fresh to swap in over Baneslayer. Alternatively, a cube comparison that tells me 30 cubers are running a card that I've been overlooking is helpful for me to find new cards for my cube and also helpful for new cubers looking for a starting point for a new cube. Both of these data finding methods are better, imo, than a Top 20 for each color. It's hard to agree on a metric and then get everyone voting to stick to that metric. And, who is this data for? It's unlikely that I'll find something new for my own cube on these lists. If a new cuber looks at this and just says, Oh I need to include these twenty cards, that doesn't give them any sort of context for where they need to go from there.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from FunkyDragon »
    We used to have the Average MTGSalvation Peasant Cube thread, but it got deleted with the whole EU User GDPR law fiasco. It pointed to this cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/123651. When it was active, I would use the cubetutor feature to compare my cube with it to see if there was anything I was overlooking.

    Speaking of, is anyone planning to maintain such a list either here or on MTG Nexus? Is anyone planning to go to MTG Nexus? There hasn't exactly been much action over there, but it only recently opened. I know it's a lot of work, but the average cube is pretty useful.


    I did the average MTGS cube last year that you're linking to. That thread got deleted when whatever happened with Curse that caused so many people to start posting under User-3566432 or whatever. Any threads started by those users were purged. I wouldn't mind doing it again this year (probably in Nov/Dec). I think the data gleaned from it is pretty valuable.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Ranking Project 2019 Planning
    Quote from wtwlf123 »
    Quote from calibretto »
    And Path should almost definitely be on a top twenty list for white.


    Then we're asking the wrong questions. Because if that's making a list of "top P1P1 cards", the data we're getting is pretty meaningless.


    Agreed. That was my point. It's rare that I'd ever take Path at P1P1, so if it's on a list of the top twenty P1P1 white cards it raises a lot of questions about how useful the data actually is.

    Why not just say "These are the first twenty cards I'd include in X section in order of importance"? These lists should be here to support new cubers looking for a resource when building their cubes.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Ranking Project 2019 Planning
    I agree that P1P1 is the metric that is easiest to parse. Would I take Card A over Card B? If yes, then rank accordingly. However, the biggest problem with that is the number of true P1P1s in any given color fall off fairly quickly. Maybe there's five or ten white cards that I would realistically take P1P1 given other options, but what does a pack have to look like for me to take Path to Exile over options from other colors (or colorless)? And Path should almost definitely be on a top twenty list for white.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • 3

    posted a message on Kicker Costs: What is too expensive ?
    Quote from Humphrey »
    i think even maro said most players usually go for value


    Maro did say this, but he also said that was wrong. In the example he gave, he's referring to Kavu Titan and specifically says that it was often wrong to not just run it out as a bear. And he talks about how players evaluate cards incorrectly based on extra text without looking at how valuable the base mode actually is. To n00b1n8R's point, curving out wins games. If you have something better to do each turn before you get the mana to cast the card for full value, then it's probably correct to wait. If not and casting the card in its base mode will affect the board somehow, then it's normally going to be correct to just run it out and keep the game flowing.

    The Maro story can be found in this article from 2007.

    Specifically this piece:


    This story isn't really about design but it's become such a classic story (and it involves kicker) that I felt obliged to tell it once again. (And yes, I know I told it during my Invasion Week article, Body Snatchers of the Invasion.) During Invasion development I played frequently in the FFL (the Future Future League, where we play many months ahead to try and figure out what the future environment will be like). Because I wasn't the best of deck builders (at least a Spike deck builder; I could hold my own in a Johnny world), I usually got decks from other developers. Randy Buehler was running the FFL at the time, and he gave me a red-green deck to play. In it were four Grizzly Bears. I didn't think anything of it at the time. I then went on to go 4-0 that week. I was the only person with an undefeated record.

    During my last match, Randy watched. At some point late in one of the games, I played my Grizzly Bears. After the match was over, Randy informed me that the Grizzly Bears weren't actually Grizzly Bears. They were proxies for Kavu Titan. Armed with this information, the next week I went 2-2. Suffice to say that the R&D guys thought this was the funniest thing ever. The lesson I learned was the importance of using the Kavu Titans as 2/2s. When I was aggressive with Kavu Titan, my deck performed much better. When I waited to maximize the Kavu Titans as 5/5 creatures, I lost much of the aggression of my deck and thus some of its power. Week 3, I went 4-0 again.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Ranking Project 2019 Planning
    I don't think spoiler tags solves the "problem" of people being influenced by other voters' lists. I mean, just open the tag and look at the list. I understand what it's trying to do, but if you really want everyone to be submitting their lists uninfluenced by other lists, then you should do this via PM.

    I also don't think we'll be able to come to a true unanimous agreement on the voting criteria. Even if you tell folks to post their top twenty "most impactful" white cards and everyone agrees on that, you'll still gets posters who interpret that differently. What does impactful really mean in terms of cube? Is Armageddon the white card that's had the most impact on games for me? Does that make it rank higher than Moat or Balance? Maybe I'll just shortcut impactful to mean P1P1 or favorite since these are easier for me to interpret. I don't believe there's really a way to avoid this metric being mostly arbitrary based on the individual posters.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.