Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord was just spoiled for M20. Does this help our list? Definitely looks like the most significant vampire card to hit modern in a while. Click on the card link or check out the most recent spoilers on the mtgsalvation welcome page.
Starting at 4 loyalty and the ability to loop Bloodghast, not too shabby. Built in burn protection. Can help us stay aggressive with the counters and deathtouch. This could be the thing we need to push us over the top eh?
Murderous Redcap + Sac outlet + Spark Double. Double copies Redcap, sac the double, it enters with a -1/-1 counter and a +1/+1 counter, which cancel each other, but it still has persist, it deals 2 damage upon entering, rinse and repeat until everyone is dead!! Any other cards or shenanigans I can pull off with this?
Or what about turning Unstable Shifter into a copy of Murderous Redcap with Blood Artist, Marchesa, the black roseGoblin Bombardment and Unspeakable Symbol out? Have out Marchesa, Shifter and Blood Artist then play murderous redcap. Redcap enters and deals 2 damage, shifter copies it. Sac. it, deal 3 damage, gain 1 life. Sac. redcap, it deals 3 damage, gain a life, shifter becomes a copy of redcap, but with a -1/-1 counter. Pay 3 life, put a +1/+1 counter on shifter from Unspeakable symbol to negate the -1/-1 counter. Sac. it, deal 3 damage gain 1 life.
It seems like what this loop enables me to accomplish is paying 1 life in order to deal 2 damage. Could be a wincon near the end.
While this may seem like a ridiculous amount of cards to string together, the deck's aim is to have all of the most synergistic combo pieces in order to always have some combo ready to draw up. Every card mentioned serves a function with another combo or powerful synergy.
Ah yes... I was hoping there was some fun to be had hear.
So for instance, I have my commander Marchesa, the Black Rose and Unstable Shapeshifter and a Goblin Bombardment on the battlefield. Then I play Flayer of the Hatebound turning shifter into a copy of it. Then sac. shifter using bombardment, it returns and triggers 5+1 damage off the flayer in play. Then I sacrifice the original flayer, it returns and deals 5. Then sac. the shifter and the flayer, they both come back on my endstep triggering 8 more damage, plus some bombardments triggers, total. Then I can just do the same thing the next turn as long as marchesa is out.
Does that reasoning follow?
Any other good tricks you can think of with this creature, plus a sac. outlet plus Marchesa?
How do y'all feel about Tainted Aether? What I'm thinking is, if you get a really great head start with early creatures, play out Marchesa plus an undying creature, then show them your taint and see how they feel about it . I think with an undying creature+Tainted Aether+Marchesa+Unspeakable Symbol does some things. Or, just Marchesa, plus undying creature, plus creature that already had a +1/+1 counter on it. That way you can play the undying creature, sac. it to itself, then it undies, sac. it to itself again, it comes back at end step due to marchesa. Add in a blood artist and go to town.
I also believe the "Go aggro early, play Marchesa get counters on creatures then play tainted aether before opponents have any creatures out" route could net some wins.
Don't know though, this card is super hard to evaluate with Marchesa. Can anyone explain the rules to me on this? Think of any good interactions? Ravenous Chupacabra + Unspeakable Symbol + Tainted Aether + Sac. outlet?
Flayer of the Hatebound + Tainted Aether + Marchesa, the black Rose anyone? Not sure how much damage yu deal per turn with that, but it's a lot. There's also the Flayer, Blood artist, Goblin Bombardment nonsense I've been looking at. Blood artist is decent with tainted aether + Marchesa + Undying creature
I feel that there could be some good synergy with persist creatures and those with +1/+1 counters from Marchesa.
If I have Unstable Shapeshifter on the battlefield and play Murderous Redcap, then the Unstable Shapeshifter dies before becoming a copy of anything else, will the shifter persist back into existence? Say Unstable Shapeshifter becomes a copy of Flayer of the Hatebound and I sacrifice the shapeshifter, will it retain it's undying and come back with a +1/+1 counter? Please help wise rule gurus!
Mikaeus and Mimic work that way with Redcap, yeah. I’d recommend maybe skipping Triskelion just because it doesn’t do much on its own and your slot might be better spent on a higher impact card.
I don’t run Redcap but I do play Glen Elendra Archmage for infinite sac trigger shenanigans, that’s possibly an additional option to consider.
Can you lay this out for me? Do you mean Glen Elendra plus Mikaeus plus sac. outlet?
You guys messing around with Magmasaur at all? This has been one of my pet cards for Marchesa. A bit slow, but so is Nev's disk right? You get to deal 5 damage to everyone and 5 to each non-flying creature. If you have Marchesa out, preferably with a +1/+1 counter already attached, you get them both back on your endstep. It's pretty great in an aggro deck. This little synergy has won me more than 1 game!
Unspeakable Symbol plus Mob Rule and Mass Mutiny and sac. outlet and Marchesa means I steal all creatures, put counters on those I want to keep, sac. them, I get them back at the end step.
Unspeakable Symbol plus persist means pay 3 life for every 1 of 2 sacrifice activations. Also allows me to drain my own life to manipulate dethrone.
Any kind of creatures out with +1/+1 counters on them, plus Marchesa out, plus a boardwipe means I get all of my creatures back and my opponents get none. Jokulhaups is basically a wincon with Marchesa as well, can't say that about any other Grixis commanders.
Magmasaur was already in the list and isn't going anywhere. Have Marchesa out, play him. Sac. on your next turn, deal 5 damage to each creature without flying and each player. Then he comes back as a 5/5 on the end step.
Marchesa does provide for some interesting synergies among all of the moving parts I have.
For example, Goblin Bombardment plus Flayer of the Hatebound plus Marchesa. I have Marchesa and bombardment out, play flayer, deal 4 damage. Sac. flayer, deal 5+1 damage off bombardment, Sac. flayer again 1 damage, he goes to the graveyard. Get him back on the end step, deal 4 damage. Next opponent's turn, Save flayer for blocking, after blocking with flayer, sac. him to bombardment, deal 5+1, sac. him again deal 1. End step he returns, deals 4 damage.
That same flow can be accomplished with blood artist plus a different sac. outlet and marchesa out as well, except I gain life for each sacrifice.
I believe that's about 15 damage per turn, including the turn I play him! Not too mention, I get him as a blocker back for each turn.
Zealous Conscripts plus sac. outlet means I swing with a creature, maybe get a +1/+1 counter on it through dethrone, if my opponent's stolen creature also dies, it comes back under my control again. If not, use a sac. outlet after attacking with it so my opponent doesn't get their creature back. conscripts+ Gilded Lotus+ Deadeye Navigator=Infinite colored mana
Thinking about adding in Mob Rule and Mass Mutiny to complement all of the sac. outlets.
The synergy is there. It's just hard too see. My fault for not having a more fully fledged game plan to show everyone.
Keep checking in though, this deck looks like it's coming together nicely.
Why helm this list with Marchesa? My assessment of The Black Rose is that she's a value and attrition engine, allowing you to build and maintain a board state, and gain incremental value by reusing EtB or LtB effects. For a dedicated combo deck, I feel like there are probably better commanders that either act as a combo piece, or help you get to your combo pieces. Here, you have very few pieces that really benefit from having Marchesa around,
That is a good point. I have considered changing the commander. I checked out the other Grixis commanders and didn't come up with anything I liked. Do you have a recommendation for me in Grixis colors?
I have a bunch of other good cards for the deck set aside from previous builds. That I can add in. I found even more combos recently. Now, I'm evaluating the combos based on things like "How many cards does this take to work?" "How much synergy/strength do the cards within the combo work to add on their own outside of the combo?" "How much mana does this combo cost?" et.
I will probably weed out 1-3 winning combos from where I'm currently at. I have a bunch of other "Marchesa good stuff shenanigan cards" that I didn't take the time to type into the list. There are plenty of great cards out there that can help Marchesa put up road blocks to opponent's winning before I get a combo off.
After looking through the Grixis commanders, I think Marchesa may be one of the best. She helps keep my creature combo pieces on the board for longer at least. Let me know your recommendations please!
Alright, I'm thinking about finding more infinite mana combos and adding Fireball to complement the Exsanguinate. Now that I think about it Walking Ballista does infinite damage with infinite mana as well.
***Edit*** I knew Flayer of the Hatebound was in the combo category for some reason. He can substitute for Blood Artist for infinite sac. creatures loop to deal infinite damage.
My Marchesa, the Black Rose deck was long overdue for an overhaul. The more I looked into and thought about infinite combos for this deck, the more I found. There isn't a complete deck list yet, but there are quite a few combos in it already. Please let me know if you have any more combos or good support cards for these combos in mind.
So, we have infinite sac/damage output combos up first:
Walking Ballista or Murderous Redcap or Triskelion+ Mikaeus, the unhallowed or Metallic Mimic+Sac. Outlet=Infinite damage
Then we can also go with Persist creature+Mikaeus or Metallic Mimic+Goblin Bombardment or (Sac. outlet+Blood artist)=Infinite damage
Same cards as above but with Viscera Seer out as the sac. outlet=Scry through your entire deck
Same cards but Ashnod's Altar instead of Viscera Seer=Infinite colorless mana+Exanguinate=steal everyone's life
Then we've got our "Make infinite haste creatures and attack combos
Deceiver Exarch or Pestermite or Zealous Conscripts + Kiki-Jiki Mirror breaker or Splinter Twin
Starting at 4 loyalty and the ability to loop Bloodghast, not too shabby. Built in burn protection. Can help us stay aggressive with the counters and deathtouch. This could be the thing we need to push us over the top eh?
So I should look at using Spark Double + Sac. outlet + Murderous Redcap instead eh? Then I can loop
Murderous Redcap + Sac outlet + Spark Double. Double copies Redcap, sac the double, it enters with a -1/-1 counter and a +1/+1 counter, which cancel each other, but it still has persist, it deals 2 damage upon entering, rinse and repeat until everyone is dead!! Any other cards or shenanigans I can pull off with this?
Redcap enters, 2 damage. Sac. to altar, add 2 mana deal 1 damage. Pay 4, attach Nim Deathmantle to Murderous Redcap, sac. it, add 2 mana, deal 4 damage, redcap returns. Sac. it, add 2 mana, attach Nim Deathmantle, et.
It seems like what this loop enables me to accomplish is paying 1 life in order to deal 2 damage. Could be a wincon near the end.
While this may seem like a ridiculous amount of cards to string together, the deck's aim is to have all of the most synergistic combo pieces in order to always have some combo ready to draw up. Every card mentioned serves a function with another combo or powerful synergy.
So for instance, I have my commander Marchesa, the Black Rose and Unstable Shapeshifter and a Goblin Bombardment on the battlefield. Then I play Flayer of the Hatebound turning shifter into a copy of it. Then sac. shifter using bombardment, it returns and triggers 5+1 damage off the flayer in play. Then I sacrifice the original flayer, it returns and deals 5. Then sac. the shifter and the flayer, they both come back on my endstep triggering 8 more damage, plus some bombardments triggers, total. Then I can just do the same thing the next turn as long as marchesa is out.
Does that reasoning follow?
Any other good tricks you can think of with this creature, plus a sac. outlet plus Marchesa?
I also believe the "Go aggro early, play Marchesa get counters on creatures then play tainted aether before opponents have any creatures out" route could net some wins.
Don't know though, this card is super hard to evaluate with Marchesa. Can anyone explain the rules to me on this? Think of any good interactions? Ravenous Chupacabra + Unspeakable Symbol + Tainted Aether + Sac. outlet?
Flayer of the Hatebound + Tainted Aether + Marchesa, the black Rose anyone? Not sure how much damage yu deal per turn with that, but it's a lot. There's also the Flayer, Blood artist, Goblin Bombardment nonsense I've been looking at. Blood artist is decent with tainted aether + Marchesa + Undying creature
I feel that there could be some good synergy with persist creatures and those with +1/+1 counters from Marchesa.
Can you lay this out for me? Do you mean Glen Elendra plus Mikaeus plus sac. outlet?
You guys messing around with Magmasaur at all? This has been one of my pet cards for Marchesa. A bit slow, but so is Nev's disk right? You get to deal 5 damage to everyone and 5 to each non-flying creature. If you have Marchesa out, preferably with a +1/+1 counter already attached, you get them both back on your endstep. It's pretty great in an aggro deck. This little synergy has won me more than 1 game!
Also, I'm brewing my new combo oriented Marchesa list on a new thread now. At this point, I'm weeding some combos out. It's totally in brew mode right now. Y'all should come check it out though! My explanation of things is pretty incomplete right now. However y'all probably have enough experience with her to suss out the unexplained synergies. Many thanks!
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/811419-oops-all-combos-marchesa-the-black-rose-help-me#c3
Unspeakable Symbol plus persist means pay 3 life for every 1 of 2 sacrifice activations. Also allows me to drain my own life to manipulate dethrone.
Any kind of creatures out with +1/+1 counters on them, plus Marchesa out, plus a boardwipe means I get all of my creatures back and my opponents get none.
Jokulhaups is basically a wincon with Marchesa as well, can't say that about any other Grixis commanders.
Magmasaur was already in the list and isn't going anywhere. Have Marchesa out, play him. Sac. on your next turn, deal 5 damage to each creature without flying and each player. Then he comes back as a 5/5 on the end step.
For example, Goblin Bombardment plus Flayer of the Hatebound plus Marchesa. I have Marchesa and bombardment out, play flayer, deal 4 damage. Sac. flayer, deal 5+1 damage off bombardment, Sac. flayer again 1 damage, he goes to the graveyard. Get him back on the end step, deal 4 damage. Next opponent's turn, Save flayer for blocking, after blocking with flayer, sac. him to bombardment, deal 5+1, sac. him again deal 1. End step he returns, deals 4 damage.
That same flow can be accomplished with blood artist plus a different sac. outlet and marchesa out as well, except I gain life for each sacrifice.
I believe that's about 15 damage per turn, including the turn I play him! Not too mention, I get him as a blocker back for each turn.
Kiki-jiki, mirror breaker targeting ravenous chupacabra
Zealous Conscripts plus sac. outlet means I swing with a creature, maybe get a +1/+1 counter on it through dethrone, if my opponent's stolen creature also dies, it comes back under my control again. If not, use a sac. outlet after attacking with it so my opponent doesn't get their creature back. conscripts+ Gilded Lotus+ Deadeye Navigator=Infinite colored mana
Thinking about adding in Mob Rule and Mass Mutiny to complement all of the sac. outlets.
The synergy is there. It's just hard too see. My fault for not having a more fully fledged game plan to show everyone.
Keep checking in though, this deck looks like it's coming together nicely.
That is a good point. I have considered changing the commander. I checked out the other Grixis commanders and didn't come up with anything I liked. Do you have a recommendation for me in Grixis colors?
I have a bunch of other good cards for the deck set aside from previous builds. That I can add in. I found even more combos recently. Now, I'm evaluating the combos based on things like "How many cards does this take to work?" "How much synergy/strength do the cards within the combo work to add on their own outside of the combo?" "How much mana does this combo cost?" et.
I will probably weed out 1-3 winning combos from where I'm currently at. I have a bunch of other "Marchesa good stuff shenanigan cards" that I didn't take the time to type into the list. There are plenty of great cards out there that can help Marchesa put up road blocks to opponent's winning before I get a combo off.
After looking through the Grixis commanders, I think Marchesa may be one of the best. She helps keep my creature combo pieces on the board for longer at least. Let me know your recommendations please!
Niv-Mizzet, the firemind+Curiosity=Draw as many cards as you want and deal a damage for each card drawn
Triskelion+Scythe of the Wretched+Sac. outlet or Blood Artist=Infinite damage
Hellkite Charger+Sword of feast and famine+7 land=Infinite combat phases and attacks with Hellkite
***Edit*** I knew Flayer of the Hatebound was in the combo category for some reason. He can substitute for Blood Artist for infinite sac. creatures loop to deal infinite damage.
1 Walking Ballista
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Trikelion
1 Metallic Mimic
1 Mikaeus the unhallowed
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 viscera seer
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Exsanguinate
1 Blood Artist
1 Glen Elendra, Archmage
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Pestermite
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Splinter Twin
Tutors
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Trinket Mage
1 Scrapyard recombiner
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Final Parting
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Rune Scarred Demon
1 Prized Amalgam
1 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
1 Sage of Fables
1 Dack's Duplicate
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Ramp
1 Sol Ring
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Izzet Signet
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Burnished Hart
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Hedron Archive
Card draw
1 Baleful Strix
1 Midnight Reaper
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Read the Bones
1 Compulsive Research
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Concentrate
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Ancient Craving
1 Mulldrifter
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot boots
1 Spellskite
1 Champion's Helm
1 Darksteel Plate
Boardwipes
1 Chain Reaction
1 Magmasaur
1 Deadly Tempest
1 Jokulhaups
1 Cylconic Rift
1 Blasphemous Act
So, we have infinite sac/damage output combos up first:
Walking Ballista or Murderous Redcap or Triskelion+ Mikaeus, the unhallowed or Metallic Mimic+Sac. Outlet=Infinite damage
Then we can also go with Persist creature+Mikaeus or Metallic Mimic+Goblin Bombardment or (Sac. outlet+Blood artist)=Infinite damage
Same cards as above but with Viscera Seer out as the sac. outlet=Scry through your entire deck
Same cards but Ashnod's Altar instead of Viscera Seer=Infinite colorless mana+Exanguinate=steal everyone's life
Then we've got our "Make infinite haste creatures and attack combos
Deceiver Exarch or Pestermite or Zealous Conscripts + Kiki-Jiki Mirror breaker or Splinter Twin
Anyone else have some combos I could add in?