The Magic Historian (a.k.a. Mike Hatcher) did a rant video about how bad Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro messed up on the MTG lore for Streets of New Capenna on his other YouTube Channel titled 'Hatcher' If you haven't checked it out yet. To sum up his argument for this set in terms of it's lore is literally telling people to turn their brains off and buy the cards. It's frustrating when Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro won't tell us what's actually going on within the MTG lore and leaves us guessing throughout each new set release unless it's on their official website. I get that they stopped writing print novels and stuck with posting the MTG lore on their official website though I can't help but feel that it leads to more questions than answers.
For the Magic Historian to get THAT upset about the MTG lore involving why Elspeth and Ob-Nixilis are on New Capenna leads me to believe that Hasbro gave Wizards of the Coast not as much of a budget to work with where they don't have as much time to work on world building new sets when they're forced to meet deadline after deadline just to increase Hasbro's profit margins. It's led to a lot of the recent wallet fatigue and set stagnation we've seen over the years. I do care enough about the MTG lore enough to where I liked how things developed with how the Weatherlight crew defeated Yawgmoth and the Phyrexians back when Wizards of the Coast had a bigger budget to work with and didn't just make money machine go brrr just for the sake of it.
Ok, what exactly where his arguments for that it sucks? Granted, New Capenna wasn't at all a masterwork of fiction, but I am pretty sure I got the gist of what happened and was pretty intrigued by some of the plot elements without being particularly angry about any specific plot point. Ob Nixilis is there because that's his whole stick, trying to conquer worlds, why not start with one that's only a single city and is also already ruled by demonic mafia heads? Elspeth is there to find out more about her apparent home plane and find something that will help against the Phyrexians. The motivations seem clear to me.
And the world-building itself was pretty great in my opinion, certainly better than Ikoria's, but not as great as Neon Dynasty's admittedly. Yes, the format they chose is restrictive (5 stories is definitely not enough) and leads to below par pacing. It is also annoying that they can't seem to be able to line up the actual story and the cards properly, but being this angry about THIS set specifically seems... strange. I also don't see how New Capenna's lore is telling us (literally too apparently) to buy cards and turn our brains of. Care to elaborate? Also the Weatherlight saga definitely had its ups and serious downs as well (*cough* Prophecy *cough*).
Hm, Quest for Karn still seems to be mostly canon (Venser died saving Karn, Elspeth is known to the Phyrexians, Tezzeret works with them (though maybe because of different motives)) so both Elspeth and Tezzeret should still be immune to the glistening oil and therefore compleation. Unless the compleation process for planeswalkers with the reality chip somehow undermines the immunity of course. So it might be that Vivian is the one most in danger of being compleated by the end of the story (with her motivations of combining nature with technology into a balanced whole being warped to think of Phyrexia as the perfect synthesis of both).
First of all I am kind of glad to see Urabrask again, he had the most interesting part in New Phyrexia. He also doesn't seem to be interested in destroying New Phyrexia per se, but wants the Quiet Furnace part of it to build on what it already has instead of spreading throughout the multiverse. And it seems his slight compassion towards the Mirrans has turned into something more too.
I guess this is how the conflict becomes way more complicated: Simply going to New Phyrexia and detonating the cylex there would kill all Mirrans left as well as the least horrible phyrexian faction, which might not even be interested in expansion. A nice little moral dilemma perhaps (not that I think it ould be that easy anyway now that Phyrexia is spreading again).
And yet, Urabrask might still have an ulterior motive he is not yet revealing to Vivian, he is a phyrexian after all.
Tezzeret is once again trapped in a problematic situation of his own making involving more powerful forces than himself, though he does seem to want something specific from the Phyrexians which is not just more power and it seems that they are not basically forcing him into it like Bolas did. Whether this leads to a redemption arc? I actually don't think so, but he definitely needs more development and he seems to slowly get it.
The families are certainly quick to take people in, but I guess that relationship can turn sour quite quickly as well. I find it kind of funny that a white planeswalker is becoming part of the Grixis colored faction and even seems to be on relative good terms with its half demon leader.
The secret history of the plane is also quite interesting: How did the archangels and archdemons destroy the phyrexian invaders? When did that happen? Why did the contract between them cause the family leaders to forget most of the reasons for it? Where are the angels and archdemons now and what IS Halo? I even think that it is not a coincidence that it has been mentioned multiple times now that Elspeth's name seems antiquated to the people of New Capenna. The Phyrexians were still there when she first planeswalked, not even 20 or so years ago. Something is definitely not right here (and I hope it isn't sloppy continuity^^).
Kind of wondering how Ob Nixilis fits in there as well to be honest. Interesting overall and I like the change to Vivien's character.
Interesting, the manga adapted some of the storybeats way better and others worse than the text story. For example, I didn't really feel much when the Wanderer's spark became unstable again and she was forced to leave Kamigawa in the text story, but in the manga it becomes much clearer how devastating this is for Kyodai, Kaito and the Wanderer herself. On the other hand Tamiyo's compleation was handled better and more tragically in the text story in my opinion.
But yeah, overall I think Creative nailed a futuristic Kamigawa with this set and the story. The groups and conflicts are understandable and there is no "war for war's sake" like it is on many other planes. And I really think the blend of futuristic technology and kami magic worked out quite well. I hope the set does well enough to give us a return in the future.
Doubt it, it was a project under Norn. While he is cunning I doubt the person who organised a full scale destruction of two other factions is going down so easily.
It actually looks to me as if Elesh Norn is manipulating Jin-Gitaxias by questioning whether he is intelligent enough to solve HER projects, making him work even harder towards her own goals instead of doing something else. And then he can "chastise" her all he likes while she pretends to be honestly surprised, while in reality he has been only doing what she wanted from him. It has been hinted at that she is quite manipulative before.
Unless I missed it, where's that contentious DJ artwork that made some people vomit prismatic colours everywhere?
'buster
Here it is. Still fine by me. The rest of the set is awesome in art and flavor anyway, though I had hoped for a full legendary wedge cycle. Temur being left out feels bad.
Now that Seb McKinnon has sided with the anti-vax crowd, I'll have to find new artists whose works I can anticipate. Besides Wylie Beckett, Iris Compiet is another promising new-ish MtG artist.
The card itself looks powerful too. In the best case scenario, this protects one or more of your creatures from removal while ruining the opponent's plans for their turn and gaining tempo.
Lol is that really why he isn't featured in art that much anymore? Ridiculous, he's one of the best and most interesting they have.
No, that was a last week thing. Before that, he was working on a series of children's books. If Wizards wants to phase Seb out, it'll take at least a year for it to take effect due to how far ahead they work.
this is what people are hating on him for now? What the **** is this world coming to man... (just for the record, I've had three vaccine shots, so I'm not anti anything myself.. I just hate that idiotic ***** like this turns into political "us versus them" type *****. It's ruining the world. I'm friends with a lot of people I don't agree with a lot of things. I don't care. This is ******* crazy)
I don't want to derail this thread too much, but as a biologist I can tell you that the anti-vax movement is NOT simply a matter of different opinion, and is actually quite dangerous. Their growing influence has caused stuff like measles, diphteria and other diseases which are easily preventable via vaccines to return with a vengeance. They are also some of the biggest spreaders of medical misinformation I have ever seen. So while I agree that people get way too much into "us vs them" mentalities, movements like this make some form of protest absolutely necessary. And if Wizards chooses to disassociate from Seb because of that or someone doesn't want to anticipate art by them because of anti-vax association, then that is perfectly legitimate.
Love the Marches cycle by the way, pretty much only the green one seems lackluster to me, and the artwork on all of them is really nice. This blue one has very nice versatility too (and I also like that they cut down on blinking effects in favor of phasing).
Retconning the Sisters for no reason or benefit whatsoever really killed my enthusiasm
Oh also, the benefit is that you can have planeswalkers on Kamigawa with ill intentions, that you don't have quasi god-emperors reigning for 1300 years (which would really give more questions as to how Kamigawa was even able to evolve) and you can have a richer history to use on cards. If it is a retcon (and I don't think it is), then those were probably the reasons for it.
Retconning the Sisters for no reason or benefit whatsoever really killed my enthusiasm
Ok, I am not saying that this isn't potentially a retcon, but honestly, nothing said about the sisters in Neon Dynasty is that difficult to align to the books without explicit retcons. I don't quite understand the disappointment of some and the outrage of others quite frankly. What did the book say about the sisters that isn't reflected in Neon Dynasty?
Kyodai is not looking like a slightly draconic sister of Michiko. Well, perhaps she did back then, and changed to her more draconic form sometime after Michiko died, while the artist representing their punishment of Konda in that one saga clearly doesn't know about that.
Nowhere in the last Kamigawa book does it state that Michiko became immortal, just that she became something else through her connection with Kyodai. This can easily be explained as her being the first human to channel a spirit, which was not a type of magic any mortal used at the time. Since the sisters wanted to change how magic works in Kamigawa and worked towards peace between kami and mortals, it makes sense that they established channeling of Kami for everyone with a deep connection to them as a new form of relationship between spirits and mortals.
The sisters appearing in Future Sight are likely the then current emperor directly channeling Kyodai after being informed of the threat. For why they were able to hold off Leshrac and Bolas, but not Tezzeret and for example Jace, that has probably to do with the mending, maybe the new planeswalker spark is not powerful enough to cause disturbances, or the newly repaired boundaries between planes don't allow the emperor-Kyodai bond to notice them. We don't actually see the current emperor channeling Kyodai, might be that otherwise we would have seen her becoming a slightly draconic version of the Wanderer for its duration.
I personally don't think any of these problems are that big of a deal. If I forgot any, please remind me. The word retcon is thrown around a little too much in my opinion, just like Mary Sue, as long as a change is in-universe explainable, and doesn't fully contradict what was previously stated, I wouldn't count it as such.
I'm not terribly pissed it was Tamiyo, I just hope they don't resolve it in a boring way.
AKA: OH Gideon comes back for 5 minutes to save her! Praise Jesus!
Or: Turns out Lilliana's powers now work on phyrexians! For reasons!
Or: And then Kaya offed her offscreen because we had no idea where our writing was going!
I'm mostly irritated by the Compleation mechanic not applying to all of her colored mana costs. Yes, it would potentially put her at -1 loyalty. I'm sure there's some shenanigans in game already to handle that. Paying 2 life for 2 less counters and her being 1 mana cheaper really isn't much of a discount.
I do agree there would have been better characters to do this to though, or at least a little build up with a "Previously Unknown Walker" who is compleated.
The only problem with your suggestion of a previously unknown waller being Compleated would be that noone would care beyond the "oh, that happened."
I don't know if this falls under 'oh that happened' for you, but to have any PW be compleated creates existential dread, 'oh no, our PWs can be screwed'. This is still a gut punch and very much 'ups the ante' in terms of threat. Of course, seeing a popular and beloved PW fall doubles down on this, so I'm not saying it's not as effective. I'm just pointing out that the keyword is frightening in its own right.
Tezzeret... well, not even sure about Tezzeret at this point. He largely appears to be his own person but closely tied with the Phyrexians but only for his own gains. To Compleat him would be irrelevant because we already see him as a big bad. On his own versus Jace, as Bolas's Minion through the events of War of the Spark and now as a Phyrexian co-conspirator. It wouldn't make sense to Compleat him.
I really don't understand Tezzeret's logic. Unless he wants to be compleated, why would he help the Phyrexians with this process? He's at best playing a very dangerous game. He might be arrogant enough to believe that he can avoid compleation (assuming of course he wants to avoid it). If so, he shows a depressing lack of scope. People who believe that they can outsmart/outlast the Phyrexians tend to... be mistaken.
If the Quest for Karn novel is still canon (which seems to be the case) then Tezzeret is immune against Phyresis through his experimentation on Melira, so he probably believes that he is pretty safe from that. I have no idea what his larger goal is, but he certainly seems to be aware that his worth for Phyrexia is waning, so far they seem to have worked with him because of the planar bridge, but now that they have their own planeswalkers that might not be important for much longer... And they also now have someone who could follow Tezzeret if he decides to work against them. Perhaps he thinks he can sooner or later subvert them and take over all of Phyrexia as new Father of the Machines?
On the one hand, another story arc with a new big bad is kind of neat. On the other, I hate the "oh, this character you loved? They're brainwashed and evil now" thing. I honestly would've preferred Tamiyo to die. WotC's anti-human bias also continues to show - why not have one of the random human planeswalkers suffer this fate, I'm sure we have over a dozen of them at this point.
The boring part about an established character (human or not) becoming compleated is that it basically removes all nuance from them. Once they're Phyrexian, they are nothing more than a "doing evil things for the sake of being evil" type of caricature.
I don't know, the story depicted quite well that Tamiyo, even compleated, isn't just evil for evil's sake now, her love for her family was warped to a love for Phyrexia. She wants to protect and nurture it, which seems like a very different kind of motivation. Also I bet we will get quite a few more compleated planeswalkers, and certainly many human ones at that.
I’m going to be LIVID if Tamiyo actually suffered this fate
I guess I have to give you pretty bad news in this case, fellow Tamiyo fan. Have to admit, I was not expecting them to do that either, and I am at the same time frustrated and intrigued about it.
This is also crappy storytelling. The Phyrexians were always OP, but their one weakness was the inability to planeswalk. So what do the writers do as soon as they bring them back? Make that no longer apply, so now they can brainwash and conquer anyone and anything they want with little recompense. As if having plot armor thicker than the Antarctic ice caps weren't enough. So I think I officially don't care about the lore anymore, and with it, possibly not any future sets (except maybe Un-sets). Have they ever heard of Too Bleak; Stopped Caring?
Well...you can always hope that Tamiyo gets the Seven of Nine treatment...
7 of 9 is divine.
That said, am I the only one concerned with Tamiyo's three forbidden scrolls now in Phyrexians' hand?
Nope, and the story took its time to point out that Phyrexian Tamiyo is perfectly willing to use them for the glory of New Phyrexia if need be...
This is also crappy storytelling. The Phyrexians were always OP, but their one weakness was the inability to planeswalk. So what do the writers do as soon as they bring them back? Make that no longer apply, so now they can brainwash and conquer anyone and anything they want with little recompense. As if having plot armor thicker than the Antarctic ice caps weren't enough. So I think I officially don't care about the lore anymore, and with it, possibly not any future sets (except maybe Un-sets). Have they ever heard of Too Bleak; Stopped Caring?
Well...you can always hope that Tamiyo gets the Seven of Nine treatment...
That's my hope as well. The problem with phyresis was always that it destroys the soul, therefore there is nothing to bring back once someone undergoes it. But since compleated planeswalkers keep their soul (otherwise they couldn't planeswalk) they might at least be able to undo the personality changes in some way, shape or form.
Ok, what exactly where his arguments for that it sucks? Granted, New Capenna wasn't at all a masterwork of fiction, but I am pretty sure I got the gist of what happened and was pretty intrigued by some of the plot elements without being particularly angry about any specific plot point. Ob Nixilis is there because that's his whole stick, trying to conquer worlds, why not start with one that's only a single city and is also already ruled by demonic mafia heads? Elspeth is there to find out more about her apparent home plane and find something that will help against the Phyrexians. The motivations seem clear to me.
And the world-building itself was pretty great in my opinion, certainly better than Ikoria's, but not as great as Neon Dynasty's admittedly. Yes, the format they chose is restrictive (5 stories is definitely not enough) and leads to below par pacing. It is also annoying that they can't seem to be able to line up the actual story and the cards properly, but being this angry about THIS set specifically seems... strange. I also don't see how New Capenna's lore is telling us (literally too apparently) to buy cards and turn our brains of. Care to elaborate? Also the Weatherlight saga definitely had its ups and serious downs as well (*cough* Prophecy *cough*).
I think it was hinted at early on that he is some kind of compleated furnace dragon or at least modeled after them, so this might very well be.
First of all I am kind of glad to see Urabrask again, he had the most interesting part in New Phyrexia. He also doesn't seem to be interested in destroying New Phyrexia per se, but wants the Quiet Furnace part of it to build on what it already has instead of spreading throughout the multiverse. And it seems his slight compassion towards the Mirrans has turned into something more too.
I guess this is how the conflict becomes way more complicated: Simply going to New Phyrexia and detonating the cylex there would kill all Mirrans left as well as the least horrible phyrexian faction, which might not even be interested in expansion. A nice little moral dilemma perhaps (not that I think it ould be that easy anyway now that Phyrexia is spreading again).
And yet, Urabrask might still have an ulterior motive he is not yet revealing to Vivian, he is a phyrexian after all.
Tezzeret is once again trapped in a problematic situation of his own making involving more powerful forces than himself, though he does seem to want something specific from the Phyrexians which is not just more power and it seems that they are not basically forcing him into it like Bolas did. Whether this leads to a redemption arc? I actually don't think so, but he definitely needs more development and he seems to slowly get it.
The families are certainly quick to take people in, but I guess that relationship can turn sour quite quickly as well. I find it kind of funny that a white planeswalker is becoming part of the Grixis colored faction and even seems to be on relative good terms with its half demon leader.
The secret history of the plane is also quite interesting: How did the archangels and archdemons destroy the phyrexian invaders? When did that happen? Why did the contract between them cause the family leaders to forget most of the reasons for it? Where are the angels and archdemons now and what IS Halo? I even think that it is not a coincidence that it has been mentioned multiple times now that Elspeth's name seems antiquated to the people of New Capenna. The Phyrexians were still there when she first planeswalked, not even 20 or so years ago. Something is definitely not right here (and I hope it isn't sloppy continuity^^).
Kind of wondering how Ob Nixilis fits in there as well to be honest. Interesting overall and I like the change to Vivien's character.
But yeah, overall I think Creative nailed a futuristic Kamigawa with this set and the story. The groups and conflicts are understandable and there is no "war for war's sake" like it is on many other planes. And I really think the blend of futuristic technology and kami magic worked out quite well. I hope the set does well enough to give us a return in the future.
It actually looks to me as if Elesh Norn is manipulating Jin-Gitaxias by questioning whether he is intelligent enough to solve HER projects, making him work even harder towards her own goals instead of doing something else. And then he can "chastise" her all he likes while she pretends to be honestly surprised, while in reality he has been only doing what she wanted from him. It has been hinted at that she is quite manipulative before.
Here it is. Still fine by me. The rest of the set is awesome in art and flavor anyway, though I had hoped for a full legendary wedge cycle. Temur being left out feels bad.
I don't want to derail this thread too much, but as a biologist I can tell you that the anti-vax movement is NOT simply a matter of different opinion, and is actually quite dangerous. Their growing influence has caused stuff like measles, diphteria and other diseases which are easily preventable via vaccines to return with a vengeance. They are also some of the biggest spreaders of medical misinformation I have ever seen. So while I agree that people get way too much into "us vs them" mentalities, movements like this make some form of protest absolutely necessary. And if Wizards chooses to disassociate from Seb because of that or someone doesn't want to anticipate art by them because of anti-vax association, then that is perfectly legitimate.
Love the Marches cycle by the way, pretty much only the green one seems lackluster to me, and the artwork on all of them is really nice. This blue one has very nice versatility too (and I also like that they cut down on blinking effects in favor of phasing).
Oh also, the benefit is that you can have planeswalkers on Kamigawa with ill intentions, that you don't have quasi god-emperors reigning for 1300 years (which would really give more questions as to how Kamigawa was even able to evolve) and you can have a richer history to use on cards. If it is a retcon (and I don't think it is), then those were probably the reasons for it.
Ok, I am not saying that this isn't potentially a retcon, but honestly, nothing said about the sisters in Neon Dynasty is that difficult to align to the books without explicit retcons. I don't quite understand the disappointment of some and the outrage of others quite frankly. What did the book say about the sisters that isn't reflected in Neon Dynasty?
Kyodai is not looking like a slightly draconic sister of Michiko. Well, perhaps she did back then, and changed to her more draconic form sometime after Michiko died, while the artist representing their punishment of Konda in that one saga clearly doesn't know about that.
Nowhere in the last Kamigawa book does it state that Michiko became immortal, just that she became something else through her connection with Kyodai. This can easily be explained as her being the first human to channel a spirit, which was not a type of magic any mortal used at the time. Since the sisters wanted to change how magic works in Kamigawa and worked towards peace between kami and mortals, it makes sense that they established channeling of Kami for everyone with a deep connection to them as a new form of relationship between spirits and mortals.
The sisters appearing in Future Sight are likely the then current emperor directly channeling Kyodai after being informed of the threat. For why they were able to hold off Leshrac and Bolas, but not Tezzeret and for example Jace, that has probably to do with the mending, maybe the new planeswalker spark is not powerful enough to cause disturbances, or the newly repaired boundaries between planes don't allow the emperor-Kyodai bond to notice them. We don't actually see the current emperor channeling Kyodai, might be that otherwise we would have seen her becoming a slightly draconic version of the Wanderer for its duration.
I personally don't think any of these problems are that big of a deal. If I forgot any, please remind me. The word retcon is thrown around a little too much in my opinion, just like Mary Sue, as long as a change is in-universe explainable, and doesn't fully contradict what was previously stated, I wouldn't count it as such.
If the Quest for Karn novel is still canon (which seems to be the case) then Tezzeret is immune against Phyresis through his experimentation on Melira, so he probably believes that he is pretty safe from that. I have no idea what his larger goal is, but he certainly seems to be aware that his worth for Phyrexia is waning, so far they seem to have worked with him because of the planar bridge, but now that they have their own planeswalkers that might not be important for much longer... And they also now have someone who could follow Tezzeret if he decides to work against them. Perhaps he thinks he can sooner or later subvert them and take over all of Phyrexia as new Father of the Machines?
I don't know, the story depicted quite well that Tamiyo, even compleated, isn't just evil for evil's sake now, her love for her family was warped to a love for Phyrexia. She wants to protect and nurture it, which seems like a very different kind of motivation. Also I bet we will get quite a few more compleated planeswalkers, and certainly many human ones at that.
I guess I have to give you pretty bad news in this case, fellow Tamiyo fan. Have to admit, I was not expecting them to do that either, and I am at the same time frustrated and intrigued about it.
Nope, and the story took its time to point out that Phyrexian Tamiyo is perfectly willing to use them for the glory of New Phyrexia if need be...
That's my hope as well. The problem with phyresis was always that it destroys the soul, therefore there is nothing to bring back once someone undergoes it. But since compleated planeswalkers keep their soul (otherwise they couldn't planeswalk) they might at least be able to undo the personality changes in some way, shape or form.