While this ending was the only possible way to end the story (considering players, fans and maybe even selling graphs), I think the abuse of the "Gatewatch saves the day" will be terrible. It is indeed just the second time we see them doing something big, and it is probably something much smaller than killing two eldrazi, but I feel like they should lose some battle.
Except the Gatewatch doesn't save the day. From what I can tell, they serve as a distraction at best. And by "they", I mostly just mean Liliana and her army of zombies.
Tamiyo of all people ends up being the big damn hero of the story, which is honestly a little surprising to me. Most people thought it would be either Sorin or Nahiri who sealed Emrakul, or possibly the Gatewatch defeating an Eldrazi Titan for a third time (which I agree would've been very disappointing). I definitely didn't expect Tamiyo to be the one to do it. I like her a lot, but I really thought of her as a secondary character until now. I'm curious exactly how she'll manage to do so, it seems like a feat of that magnitude would be beyond her power unless she uses one of her iron scrolls.
Still on the moon is the symbol of Nissa. While some powerful magic (from tamiyo maybe) is needed to enable sealing something in the Silvermoon, because Silvermoon can be modeled and used only with specific kind of magic (not possible for a simple lithomancer for example), Nissa appears to be involved in the sealing. As I don't see how Nissa could be enabling that kind of magic on the Silvermoon. So I still consider it a Gatewatch action.
I think Nissa is involved in the way she was vs Ulamog and Kozilek: tracing the binding sigil that pulls the "true form" of the Eldrazi into physical existence. Then Tamiyo probably uses Serra's scroll to contain Emrakul in the moon the way that the Powerstone absorbed Serra's Realm.
My guesses anyway
My thoughts exactly. Just because a member of the gatewatch is partly important for the binding to work (because Tamiyo doesn't know the sigil and can certainly not pull off tracing it AND binding Emrakul into the moon) doesn't mean that it's like the ending of OGW all over again.
Heliod wasn't really the focus though, and I don't know Konda. Meanwhile Nahiri's bad-ness seems to come more fro her Red tantrum, and while Sorin's shown a tyrannical side, it's still too much in the "Aloof Dictator" side to be a outright villain.
Heliod was still the outright Bigger Bad of the Theros block whose actions were the driving force for nearly all conflict in it (and he was the one who killed Elspeth, which is very important). Lord Konda was the white bad guy of Kamigawa who stole part of the spirit world to make himself immortal and thus started the war against the Kami.
I agree with the other two though, they are more anti-villains or very bad anti-heroes (not sure which at the moment). They are not "good" though just because they are partly white.
Honestly I think Tamiyo is more Black than White but Wizards can't seem to follow through on the idea that Black isn't evil. What White character is going to say "I don't care about helping people, I'd rather just study stuff"? She could easily be a relatively noble Sutai character.
No, I don't think she has anything black in her. Black is defined by power at all cost and selfish individuality, both of which doesn't have to lead to evil characters, but it's definitely nothing Tamiyo shares. Her noninterference clause is very green in my opinion and her white comes from the strict rules she places on herself. I like her as a Bant character, though personally her magic feels not white at all to me and I would have preferred her as Simic (especially because I am beginning to loath Kiora).
White bad guys like Heliod and Konda for example? Or Nahiri and arguably Sorin in this story?
1. What sacrifice is Sorin supposed to do for Nahiri to bane Em away from Innistrad? To kill himself? To let be killed? Because if it's a "sacrifice like hers" Nahiri didn't die to protect Zendikar.
2. Why did Liliana casted a spell on Thalia to destroy the Hellvault, couldn't she do it by herself?
1. It's not entirely clear what kind of sacrifice Sorin was supposed to make (we will see), but I think she meant that she lost 5000 years of her life and her home and he should do a similar sacrifice to save his own plane.
2. She forced Thalia to do it because black can't destroy artifacts and she needed Griselbrand freed so she could destroy him.
Eh, so far this doesn't seem to be as much of a trigger to fan base rage like there was in Oath of the Gatewatch.
Probably because the fanbase already pretty much knew that the plot was going that way (Emrakul or not), I mean, we had all the time of SOI to wrap our minds around the idea that Innistrad was going to be twisted by whatever Nahiri was doing and that Sorin was going to confront her while Jace and Liliana had to deal with the problem someway.
While the OGW was the first one of that kind: 4 superheroes battling Kaiju monsters and killing them with the plot-weapon while being protected by plot-armour.
Now we have exactly the same thing, so it is nothing new.
I mean...
1) We're not killing off another Titan. The Eldrazi can come back, eventually, and hopefully deliver on the ramifications foreshadowed by Ugin.
2) It makes logical sense. Once Emrakul was finally confirmed, it was pretty clear where thing were heading.
3) Most of the people who had... rather extreme reactions to BFZ are gone.
4) Kaladesh and Conspiracy are coming soon!
I agree whole-heartedly, but I would advise not looking at the discussion about the artbook spoilers in the Rumor Mill, damn are people angry over there because of logical plot developements (like Liliana joining the gatewatch to further her own goals and Emrakul getting trapped in the moon). This is definitely not a deus ex machine ending (that the moon could imprison beings like Emrakul was hinted at since original Innistrad) and the only satisfying conclusion to that story. And for those not liking the gatewatch concept, it seems that Tamiyo declines the invitation to the group for example. And the Eldrazi brood "scatters" and Innistrad returns to its gothic horror world roots (with a little bit more body horror) as I hoped.
And yay for the fight between Sigarda and Brisela that I also hoped for.
Well if that's real my preferred ending for this story will become true: Emrakul sealed in the moon as a last ditch effort (and no doubt Tamiyos research on it will be improtant to do that too) and Liliana taking the oath out of her own selfish reasons (and with a smug grin about it too, love it :D)
I've changed my mind. I want Emrakul dead. I want her gone, wiped from the face of existence. I don't care what plot-breaking superpowers the Gatewatch has to use. If I see another set with any Eldrazi in it, I. Will. Scream.
@ Ashiok: Looks cool. I'll post my thoughts in a few, once I've read them more.
Hm, I'm getting a little bit depressed about the fact that I seem to be one of the few people on this forum who really likes the direction this set is taking. I loved the original Innistrad, the plane and the set (though I did like Avacyn Restore more than Dark Ascension if I'm honest, just because such a happy ending is pretty rare in MtG) and then SOI became my favorite set in years with a fascinating (even though obvious) mystery while still feeling like the original. And actually... I don't know, even with Emrakul and all the Eldrazi horror changing so much on Innistrad it still feels like Innistrad for me. While Zendikar in BFZ actually felt more like Eldrazi world than anything else and even I felt a little bit underwhelmed by the lack of the atmosphere that made the old Zendikar such a favorite, here the atmosphere is still in place, at least for me. It is Eldrazi done right in my opinion because instead of changing a world to accomodate them they become part of Innistrads atmosphere. Its MtG, so in places it is overdone, but all in all cards like Emrakul's Evangel and Elder Deep-Fiend, while Eldrazi in nature still feel like part of Innistrad. I don't feel the way others do here, that Innistrads flavor is destroyed by them like Zendikars was. And I'm pretty sure Innistrad will survive Emrakuls ordeal and then become a gothic world with only a little bit of body and cosmic horror again (its just too much of a cash cow not to).
Just my opinion though.
Also I like that Sigarda is most likely getting more character developement. She was my favorite angel of AVR (lets be honest, the sisters didn't have much of a character until SOI anyway) and I think that a tragic fight against her merged sisters is inevitable. I like that sort of drama (especially with the information that she already lost a sister).
I'm reserving my judgement of both Nahiri and Sorin until the story has played out. I think that there are still one or two twists coming this way.
You're not the only one, I'm adoring this set.
This set lacks when Battle for Zendikar, and many other sets have ended up lacking--emotional, narrative weight. In BFZ, thousands of unnamed mooks perished to the Eldrazi, and two continents were wiped clean, though they're starting to recover already. No important characters died.
Here, we have a huge number of significant, world-changing effects that make me feel an actual sense of gravity and danger. Avacyn, the symbol of hope and protection of the plane, is dead. Her lieutenants have become warped and twisted in a chiilingly perfect way, and Sigarda remains as the one of the last of the good angels. The world has warped and twisted visibly, and Emrakul's influence is felt throughout the plane. We see familiar tribes and locations corrupted and mutated, taking on the twisted characteristics of the new Mistress of the plane. There is a personal story behind all the Eldritch horror as well, of Nahiri and Sorin's vendetta, which grounds the tale and makes it even more interesting. We even have a way for the Gatewatch to win set up--sealing Emrakul into Innistrad's moon, which, if it happens, would be heavily foreshadowed and set up, unlike BFZ's deus ex machina ending.
I love werewolves, and I'm really enjoying this new take on them. I don't need them to be exactly the same as what we've gotten, I've had three sets of that. These are still very much werewolves, keeping the transforming identity unlike the Wolfir, and seeing them explode into tentacled beasts is visually delightful. Werewolves, I've always found, have had something of a problem looking pretty similar on their flipped sides, but these allow for way more variation.
I don't feel like this plane's aesthetic is being 'ruined' at all, I think it's being augmented. The Eldritch horror themes are blending with the Gothic horror themes, not subsuming them. and the result is something unique that could only be found on this specific plane, at this specific time. Many of these creatures wouldn't fit into BFZ or Rise of the Eldrazi's aesthetics at all. Brisela is my second favorite piece of art in this set, just because it's such a terrifying creature that was once something so pure, strong, and good. These deaths and corruptions make me more anxious for the fates of the other creatures in this set, and it makes me feel actual tension in a way Magic's story hasn't made me feel in a very, very long time.
This also makes the return of Innistrad's uncorrupted characters all the more triumphant. Thalia stands as resolute as ever against horrors far greater than anything she faced in Avacyn's first absence. Gisa and Geralf, in one of the more touching moments shown on a card, stand together as siblings against the writhing hordes of the Eldrazi. The vampires gather for war under Olivia, who is working with Sorin himself.
Not to mention, we still have plenty of cards that fit right into 'old' innistrad. Many of the DFCs have a very 'old' Innistrad feel to them on their front sides, with hints of Emrakul's corruption, before they turn completely.
I hated BFZ, but this set is everything I could have dreamed of, and the vitriol people have been expressing for it surprises me. Innistrad is my favorite plane, and this set is making me love it more, not less.
I am of the exact same opinion, although I can see partially where the hate is coming from, though I'm not agreeing with it. It's good to know that I'm not totally alone though. But to each their own. Hopefully the rest of the set and story will even out the hate a bit more.
I've changed my mind. I want Emrakul dead. I want her gone, wiped from the face of existence. I don't care what plot-breaking superpowers the Gatewatch has to use. If I see another set with any Eldrazi in it, I. Will. Scream.
@ Ashiok: Looks cool. I'll post my thoughts in a few, once I've read them more.
Hm, I'm getting a little bit depressed about the fact that I seem to be one of the few people on this forum who really likes the direction this set is taking. I loved the original Innistrad, the plane and the set (though I did like Avacyn Restore more than Dark Ascension if I'm honest, just because such a happy ending is pretty rare in MtG) and then SOI became my favorite set in years with a fascinating (even though obvious) mystery while still feeling like the original. And actually... I don't know, even with Emrakul and all the Eldrazi horror changing so much on Innistrad it still feels like Innistrad for me. While Zendikar in BFZ actually felt more like Eldrazi world than anything else and even I felt a little bit underwhelmed by the lack of the atmosphere that made the old Zendikar such a favorite, here the atmosphere is still in place, at least for me. It is Eldrazi done right in my opinion because instead of changing a world to accomodate them they become part of Innistrads atmosphere. Its MtG, so in places it is overdone, but all in all cards like Emrakul's Evangel and Elder Deep-Fiend, while Eldrazi in nature still feel like part of Innistrad. I don't feel the way others do here, that Innistrads flavor is destroyed by them like Zendikars was. And I'm pretty sure Innistrad will survive Emrakuls ordeal and then become a gothic world with only a little bit of body and cosmic horror again (its just too much of a cash cow not to).
Just my opinion though.
Also I like that Sigarda is most likely getting more character developement. She was my favorite angel of AVR (lets be honest, the sisters didn't have much of a character until SOI anyway) and I think that a tragic fight against her merged sisters is inevitable. I like that sort of drama (especially with the information that she already lost a sister).
I'm reserving my judgement of both Nahiri and Sorin until the story has played out. I think that there are still one or two twists coming this way.
I think my problem isn't that Emrakul's presence is warping the world. I'd rather the villain not have been Emrakul, and it have been cultists and the insane versus the denizens rather than corrupter body horrors of what used to be the Innistrad citizenry, but whatever. I'll grant the chance. The problem for me has become the sheer volume of Emrakul's corruption and the cost it has created in terms of numbers in the set.
Emrakul's here. Gotta prove she's the biggest and baddest Eldrazi. She now warps biology. Gotta show that effect. That's fine, but when all but 1 flip-card - Innistrad's thing - is now an Eldrazi on the reverse-side, how is that balancing the set? It's shoving the Emrakul-effect so far down our throats we can't breathe in what made the plane unique.
I'm really happy that people are finally getting the Eldrazi impact they wanted. And I'm glad you and others can enjoy it. None of that is meant to be sarcastic; I'm genuinely glad Eldrazi fans got their redemption from the bad BFZ oversaturation of the tribe. The problem for the rest of us has been though that that came at the expense of OUR version of Innistrad. Like say we split the 20 DFCs 10-10 classic tribal flips and Eldrazi mutations. I'd be super cool with that. 13-7 Eldrazi-flavored? Still cool. 15-5? Can live with it. But it's 19-1 (or 20-1, can't remember for sure), and the only reason we've been given to justify that is that "well, this isn't an Eldrazi-set but an "Emrakul effect" set. Sure doesn't feel that way. The as-fan, as MaRo loves to use, is WAY too high per pack in Eldrazi numbers versus non-Eldrazi and non-horror numbers. For example, now that Emrakul is here, the Creative team decides to bring in the rest of the Gatewatch. Now we have to include them on cards and in-story and art. Characters with little exposure like Arlinn, who could have great quotes about the corruption get supplanted by Nissa. Thalia is substituted out of the newest Thraben Defense by Gideon. So on and so forth, and all of this gets magnified with this being a smaller set. Did we really need a card like Eternal Scourge when we still don't have cards for Dierk, Hal and Alena or Ludevic (barring the obvious caveat that they haven't been spoiled)?
I just wanted more balance, and it seems so far that isn't happening. It could improve, and I hope it does in the next week, but I just can't stomach another Eldrazi-themed set, even one that nails the flavor of them better than ever before and still holds the atmosphere of the old-block. It's just too unbalanced.
ADDENDUM: Agreed on being excited for Sigarda facing the remnants of her sisters. There's a lot of depth to Sigarda's story I hope gets explored in due time. She literally has now seen 3 sisters all fall, when they are the strongest PURE embodiments of white mana on the plane, and I'd like to know if she takes over the Psychochomp duties from Avacyn of ferrying the dead to the afterlife.
You know, I actually understand that people are not happy with the as-fan of Eldrazi (and Horror) for this set. I would have liked a few more "normal" transform cards too. And not only because I think people would be a lot less negative about this set if that were the case. I certainly hope that it gets balanced a bit more in the future. For me its just not that big of a problem, SOI gave us a great deal of such cards and I think we'll be getting them in the future again too. As I said, I think you all will not lose "your" Innistrad just yet, it will return I can understand that with this in mind Wizards choose to focus more on the transforming Eldrazi cards because those will only be in EMN most likely. They could have done it a bit less extreme, but it makes sense.
I actually believe this is where all of this leads up to, Sigarda replacing Avacyn and Thalias and St. Trafts group replacing the now totally corrupted church and I think it's a good developement. It might even be better for Innistrad as a whole in the long run, I always found Avacyn a bit too mechanical (even before SOI) in character (which was certainly the point with her being Sorins creation) to actually lead Innistrads humans and angels. Just my thoughts on this.
I've changed my mind. I want Emrakul dead. I want her gone, wiped from the face of existence. I don't care what plot-breaking superpowers the Gatewatch has to use. If I see another set with any Eldrazi in it, I. Will. Scream.
@ Ashiok: Looks cool. I'll post my thoughts in a few, once I've read them more.
Hm, I'm getting a little bit depressed about the fact that I seem to be one of the few people on this forum who really likes the direction this set is taking. I loved the original Innistrad, the plane and the set (though I did like Avacyn Restore more than Dark Ascension if I'm honest, just because such a happy ending is pretty rare in MtG) and then SOI became my favorite set in years with a fascinating (even though obvious) mystery while still feeling like the original. And actually... I don't know, even with Emrakul and all the Eldrazi horror changing so much on Innistrad it still feels like Innistrad for me. While Zendikar in BFZ actually felt more like Eldrazi world than anything else and even I felt a little bit underwhelmed by the lack of the atmosphere that made the old Zendikar such a favorite, here the atmosphere is still in place, at least for me. It is Eldrazi done right in my opinion because instead of changing a world to accomodate them they become part of Innistrads atmosphere. Its MtG, so in places it is overdone, but all in all cards like Emrakul's Evangel and Elder Deep-Fiend, while Eldrazi in nature still feel like part of Innistrad. I don't feel the way others do here, that Innistrads flavor is destroyed by them like Zendikars was. And I'm pretty sure Innistrad will survive Emrakuls ordeal and then become a gothic world with only a little bit of body and cosmic horror again (its just too much of a cash cow not to).
Just my opinion though.
Also I like that Sigarda is most likely getting more character developement. She was my favorite angel of AVR (lets be honest, the sisters didn't have much of a character until SOI anyway) and I think that a tragic fight against her merged sisters is inevitable. I like that sort of drama (especially with the information that she already lost a sister).
I'm reserving my judgement of both Nahiri and Sorin until the story has played out. I think that there are still one or two twists coming this way.
So... Airliin said werewolf packs were goin g to protect Innistrad, right? It seems to me they can't even keep their limbs in the right places. Shameful wet furry horrors.
The flavor text of the eldrazified werewolves implies that not all of them have succumbed to Emrakul, so there might still be hope^^
Just a short reminder for people who like getting angry at Maro for "lying": He didn't say anywhere that there would be only a small amount of Eldrazi on Innistrad. You can be mad about Eldrazi being prevalent all you like, but the title of this thread is very misleading.
So I hadn't really planned on weighing in but the way things are going it's probably for the best to do it now rather than later...
What's being done in Shadows over Innistrad/Eldritch Moon, and by extension to the Innistrad setting as a whole, may end up being the worst failure out of WotC in modern times.
Yes, topping even their refusal to reprint staples for non-rotating formats and their mismanagement of the Modern banlist - the things I usually whine about.
And I say that with an unusual amount of confidence because it's not really something that can be debated, unlike many of the other poor decisions coming out of the company.
It's not the matter of whether or not the changes constitutes "true" cosmic horror or not, or whether you personally feel one way or another, but rather the fact that they've effectively destroying their own best-selling property for no real purpose.
Let me explain....
I dislike Zendikar a great deal. "Adventure-world" never appealed much to me. The tropes felt far more tired than most others, floating bits of terrain gets old remarkably fast and the inhabitants always seemed remarkably flat and lifeless despite running the gamut on races and environments.
I outright hate the Eldrazi. In part because of their power level, it's schoolboy powergaming levels of stupid and pretty obvious someone (or multiple someone's) on the design/development teams has a raging boner for them. In part it's the mechanics, which seems custom-made for griefing and uninteractive gameplay, even in Standard - which is supposedly the design focus. And to a rather large part it's because they commit the biggest possible sin of all when it comes to being the center antagonists... they're mind-numbingly boring.
Inhuman, intangible forces of destruction hellbent on consuming worlds. Strengths? All. Weaknesses? None. Purpose? Unknown. Level of interaction in the story? Nil.
Interesting antagonists, or protagonists for that matter, are those that you can relate to at some level. Phyrexia prides itself on discarding mortal trappings, yet it's fundamentally just another cult - and a fractious one at that. Bolas may be powerful but he still has a clear agenda and real limits, even if his individual plots may take some unraveling.
And so on.
Conversely, the Eldrazi seems tailor-made to sidestep the potential of a good story entirely and have more in common with the annoying brat who "rolled" all 18s for his D&D character while no one was looking and who plays solely to extract the most gold and XP for himself.
But I digress...
I also love Innistrad. the only reason I wont proclaim it the best they've done is because I were around for Dominaria, and whatever else you could say about the game back then that plane certainly got a lot of development.
Anyway, all this inevitably leads to me having a strong negative reaction to Eldrazi on Innistrad. While obvious from the start, it's not like the hints in Shadows over Innistrad were that subtle, I thought the relatively muted "mutant/madness/cosmic horror" subtheme meant WotC could actually pull of a conclusion to the Eldrazi storyline without ******* up their most beloved setting and I chose to defer judgment on that basis.
Clearly I were wrong.
And here's the point....
Innistrad is one of the game's most beloved settings, gothic horror certainly has its fans and it doesn't hurt that the block was mechanically solid as well.
Zendikar is in a similar position.
Unfortunately the same is also probably true of the Eldrazi.
Mixing these in any way shape of form is a terrible idea, because the subset of people who's going to enjoy the mixture is by necessity smaller - the intersection of the above groups if you will. And, as we've seen, it's largely an irreversible process.
I, and others like me, have gotten their favorite plane ruined. WotC kills their own golden goose to make nuggets and for what?
There were no particular hurry to wrap of the Eldrazi storyline, certainly even less so if they intend to truly wrap it up completely (never, ever, seeing another Eldrazi in the game of Magic would, for me personally at least, go some way towards mollifying my feelings about the whole thing).
And even if they did want to do that there's no particular reason to do that on Innistrad, or in such a fashion. We don't need another plane ruined to remind us that the Eldrazi are bad, they've already destroyed like ~1.5 formats and Emrakul herself will likely keep ruining games until the end of time.
No, the people who're fine with an Eldrazi-fied Innistrad would have been equally fine without it. Unfortunately the reverse can't be said for the rest of us.
TL; DR: WotC cashed in on Innistrad, one of their most beloved planes and no doubt a real cash-cow for the company, for no actual upside. They, and by extension us as players, lost something forever and they failed to get any real payment out of it.
That's why the decision is terrible, not because it's not "cosmic horror" enough.
Uhh, no, I know I only speak for myself, but I would have found any other resolution for Innistrad very disappointing. Actually I believe that cosmic horror of this quality can only work on Innistrad really and I hoped for Eldrazi being done right after BFZ the whole time. And I feel they did that now. The set is not out yet, the story is not finished, but you are already calling it a failure because it mixes Innistrad with a new kind of horror which you dislike purely because of the Eldrazis presence? Ok, you can have that opinion, sure, but it's definiotely not an objective argument.
I have to say, the negativity is kind of overwhelming in this forum as of late, I understand the Eldrazi fatigue (which is the only criticism I would probably agree with although I don't feel it, Wizards could have given it a bit more time... though judging from other peoples posts here there are many who wouldn't be happy with Eldrazi at any time) and the dislike some people have for the concept of the Gatewatch. Even the strange hate on Wizards for their supposed angel killing I can somewhat understand (but really, it's not as big a deal as people make it out to be, as far as I know dragons (all dragons on Tarkir before the time travel), hydras (Polukranos), demons (Griselbrand) and sphinxes (Alhammarret) die all the time too, they are just not as often legendary creatures). But it irritates me that those dislikes are then presented as objective arguments for a supposed failure of the set, which they simply aren't.
I myself really love the whole SOI block because it did Eldrazi, Innistrad and the combination of cosmic and gothic horror (all of which I like as concepts) right after an admittedly disappointing reentry for the Eldrazi in BFZ. I would have been severely disappointed with a non sequitor solution to SOI like some random Stormkirk or moon god and I'm pretty sure that most people would have been if that was the reveal after all the foreshadowing. I know I will not change many minds around here, which is why I would just like to know if there is someone here who likes the direction the story has taken and this block as a whole as much as I do.
I forget the link, but Maro did address this, especially the new break down for the Titans:
Ulamog=Chemistry, breaking down and consuming things
Kozilek=Physics, warping perception and bending universal laws
Emrakul=Biology, warping the living, causing mutation and brainwashing
But since chemistry is just a subsection of physics and biology a subsection of chemistry, does this mean Kozilek is actually the original titan?
Organic life is holy due to the pseudoscience of vitalism. Ergo, biology is different from physics, because life is spiritual and rocks aren't.
Not to go too far off-topic, but as a biologist with an interest in physics I have to slightly disagree: Life is not special because it is intrinsically different from nonlive in a vitalistic or spiritual way, but because it is an emergent quality of nonlive itself. And as with all other emergent qualities it is more than the sum of its parts, which is why biology IS more than just physics (and chemistry in certain ways too) while still acting only within physical laws. Trying to explain the behaviour of biological systems only with physics is virtually (but not totally) impossible because of that.
Now JUST because the word "eldrazi" is written on the cards people go nuts and start whining: "i didnt want more eldrazi".
Creature type and artwork are huge parts of what makes cards appealing. While the gameplay was great too, original Innistrad and SOI would have never been as successfull without the unique art style and interesting tribes. Exchanging part of that with another serving of pink tentacles is just frustrating.
Changing from gothic horror to cosmic horror is a fine concept, but the implementation seems to be done the dullest way possible - by using the exact same villain as in the last block. It doesn't help that that block was not particularly liked by a number of players. In the end, adding "Eldrazi" to each DFC and adding pink/magenta colors to the artworks makes me enjoy those card less with no gain at all. Constantly changing the look and feel of their expansions is a key strength of Magic; even just 20-30 Eldrazi cards are enough to evoke the same negative feelings from BFZ block, which is something that could have easily been prevented by introducing a new creature type / a new kind of horror.
Just think of the possibilities:
Innistrad gets it's own god: Legendary Enchantment Creature - Elder God.
That Eldritch Moon could have easily grown a giant spirit or elemental. Spirit Horror or Elemental Horror could both have worked.
And either of those options can easily be given fluff reasons to as why they are causing madness or mutation.
Oh, yeah, that would have made MUCH more sense. A god no one has ever seen before or heard of before, didn't have any foreshadowing, makes no sense in the greater story (remember, the story is supposed to be more interconnected) and comes completely out of left field. And no, the god of the Stormkirk was sea and not moon based, so they do not count as foreshadowing. And what would have changed if that god caused mutations too? Perhabs no colorless and no Eldrazi creature type in Innistrad, both of which have very very minor consequences mechanically. So all in all it would have been dumb storywise and irrelevant mechanicwise.
I really don't get why that is such a favored option for many.
Might be a bit out there, but when people propose that kind of idea I doubt they mean that SOI would have been treated the exact same way, more likely it would have been executed slightly differently while still maintaining the same overall feel. Which I would like better at least.
Edit: Also they could have tweaked the Stormkirk for it to work, more what I would expect than something new.
~~~
When i say a cool original idea like building on the original world compared to dropping Eldrazi, i mean that they could have easily written the story, hints, and cards into making it feel different.
Though i agree, just throwing in a different big baddie with the Emrakul story is bad.
Well, but then you wouldn't have a cosmic horror story, would you? I mean, cosmic horror (or to be more exact Lovecraftian horror) has certain tropes which will always be used and if they are used then everyone would ask why they made a new enemy when Emrakul does exactly the same. So in the end, just because Eldrazi are a card type non grata because of BFZ you would have liked a totally different story more? Because all of SOI block (which has been great in my opinion) would have had to be rewritten and remade if that was the case.
And I don't buy that "Emrakul on Innistrad is not original or creative" argument if I'm honest.
My thoughts exactly. Just because a member of the gatewatch is partly important for the binding to work (because Tamiyo doesn't know the sigil and can certainly not pull off tracing it AND binding Emrakul into the moon) doesn't mean that it's like the ending of OGW all over again.
Heliod was still the outright Bigger Bad of the Theros block whose actions were the driving force for nearly all conflict in it (and he was the one who killed Elspeth, which is very important). Lord Konda was the white bad guy of Kamigawa who stole part of the spirit world to make himself immortal and thus started the war against the Kami.
I agree with the other two though, they are more anti-villains or very bad anti-heroes (not sure which at the moment). They are not "good" though just because they are partly white.
No, I don't think she has anything black in her. Black is defined by power at all cost and selfish individuality, both of which doesn't have to lead to evil characters, but it's definitely nothing Tamiyo shares. Her noninterference clause is very green in my opinion and her white comes from the strict rules she places on herself. I like her as a Bant character, though personally her magic feels not white at all to me and I would have preferred her as Simic (especially because I am beginning to loath Kiora).
White bad guys like Heliod and Konda for example? Or Nahiri and arguably Sorin in this story?
1. It's not entirely clear what kind of sacrifice Sorin was supposed to make (we will see), but I think she meant that she lost 5000 years of her life and her home and he should do a similar sacrifice to save his own plane.
2. She forced Thalia to do it because black can't destroy artifacts and she needed Griselbrand freed so she could destroy him.
I agree whole-heartedly, but I would advise not looking at the discussion about the artbook spoilers in the Rumor Mill, damn are people angry over there because of logical plot developements (like Liliana joining the gatewatch to further her own goals and Emrakul getting trapped in the moon). This is definitely not a deus ex machine ending (that the moon could imprison beings like Emrakul was hinted at since original Innistrad) and the only satisfying conclusion to that story. And for those not liking the gatewatch concept, it seems that Tamiyo declines the invitation to the group for example. And the Eldrazi brood "scatters" and Innistrad returns to its gothic horror world roots (with a little bit more body horror) as I hoped.
And yay for the fight between Sigarda and Brisela that I also hoped for.
I am of the exact same opinion, although I can see partially where the hate is coming from, though I'm not agreeing with it. It's good to know that I'm not totally alone though. But to each their own. Hopefully the rest of the set and story will even out the hate a bit more.
You know, I actually understand that people are not happy with the as-fan of Eldrazi (and Horror) for this set. I would have liked a few more "normal" transform cards too. And not only because I think people would be a lot less negative about this set if that were the case. I certainly hope that it gets balanced a bit more in the future. For me its just not that big of a problem, SOI gave us a great deal of such cards and I think we'll be getting them in the future again too. As I said, I think you all will not lose "your" Innistrad just yet, it will return
I actually believe this is where all of this leads up to, Sigarda replacing Avacyn and Thalias and St. Trafts group replacing the now totally corrupted church and I think it's a good developement. It might even be better for Innistrad as a whole in the long run, I always found Avacyn a bit too mechanical (even before SOI) in character (which was certainly the point with her being Sorins creation) to actually lead Innistrads humans and angels. Just my thoughts on this.
Hm, I'm getting a little bit depressed about the fact that I seem to be one of the few people on this forum who really likes the direction this set is taking. I loved the original Innistrad, the plane and the set (though I did like Avacyn Restore more than Dark Ascension if I'm honest, just because such a happy ending is pretty rare in MtG) and then SOI became my favorite set in years with a fascinating (even though obvious) mystery while still feeling like the original. And actually... I don't know, even with Emrakul and all the Eldrazi horror changing so much on Innistrad it still feels like Innistrad for me. While Zendikar in BFZ actually felt more like Eldrazi world than anything else and even I felt a little bit underwhelmed by the lack of the atmosphere that made the old Zendikar such a favorite, here the atmosphere is still in place, at least for me. It is Eldrazi done right in my opinion because instead of changing a world to accomodate them they become part of Innistrads atmosphere. Its MtG, so in places it is overdone, but all in all cards like Emrakul's Evangel and Elder Deep-Fiend, while Eldrazi in nature still feel like part of Innistrad. I don't feel the way others do here, that Innistrads flavor is destroyed by them like Zendikars was. And I'm pretty sure Innistrad will survive Emrakuls ordeal and then become a gothic world with only a little bit of body and cosmic horror again (its just too much of a cash cow not to).
Just my opinion though.
Also I like that Sigarda is most likely getting more character developement. She was my favorite angel of AVR (lets be honest, the sisters didn't have much of a character until SOI anyway) and I think that a tragic fight against her merged sisters is inevitable. I like that sort of drama (especially with the information that she already lost a sister).
I'm reserving my judgement of both Nahiri and Sorin until the story has played out. I think that there are still one or two twists coming this way.
The flavor text of the eldrazified werewolves implies that not all of them have succumbed to Emrakul, so there might still be hope^^
Uhh, no, I know I only speak for myself, but I would have found any other resolution for Innistrad very disappointing. Actually I believe that cosmic horror of this quality can only work on Innistrad really and I hoped for Eldrazi being done right after BFZ the whole time. And I feel they did that now. The set is not out yet, the story is not finished, but you are already calling it a failure because it mixes Innistrad with a new kind of horror which you dislike purely because of the Eldrazis presence? Ok, you can have that opinion, sure, but it's definiotely not an objective argument.
I myself really love the whole SOI block because it did Eldrazi, Innistrad and the combination of cosmic and gothic horror (all of which I like as concepts) right after an admittedly disappointing reentry for the Eldrazi in BFZ. I would have been severely disappointed with a non sequitor solution to SOI like some random Stormkirk or moon god and I'm pretty sure that most people would have been if that was the reveal after all the foreshadowing. I know I will not change many minds around here, which is why I would just like to know if there is someone here who likes the direction the story has taken and this block as a whole as much as I do.
Not to go too far off-topic, but as a biologist with an interest in physics I have to slightly disagree: Life is not special because it is intrinsically different from nonlive in a vitalistic or spiritual way, but because it is an emergent quality of nonlive itself. And as with all other emergent qualities it is more than the sum of its parts, which is why biology IS more than just physics (and chemistry in certain ways too) while still acting only within physical laws. Trying to explain the behaviour of biological systems only with physics is virtually (but not totally) impossible because of that.
Well, but then you wouldn't have a cosmic horror story, would you? I mean, cosmic horror (or to be more exact Lovecraftian horror) has certain tropes which will always be used and if they are used then everyone would ask why they made a new enemy when Emrakul does exactly the same. So in the end, just because Eldrazi are a card type non grata because of BFZ you would have liked a totally different story more? Because all of SOI block (which has been great in my opinion) would have had to be rewritten and remade if that was the case.
And I don't buy that "Emrakul on Innistrad is not original or creative" argument if I'm honest.