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  • posted a message on OTJ Outlaws of Thunder Junction Worldbuilding and Story
    Quote from Flisch »
    Okay, that was really really good. Consider some of my faith in the writing team restored.

    However, I feel like I missed something because I thought we would finally get to know what Jace needed from Proft, but then it wasn't explained? Or did I miss something?

    Quote from Spaz350 »
    Anyone else getting big "Uh oh" vibes from Jace and Vraska's new mindset? One doesn't exactly start talking about Multiversal rebirth and burning things down while expecting things to be happy and sunny.

    I'm not sure we're supposed to think Jace and Vraska are the good guys here after they ominously said they're going to fix everything.

    Quote from RatsGrin »
    We gonna casual skim over that jace and vraska have had so much unprotected seggs that she should have been pregnant already? Maybe gorgon conception takes longer than a humans? But hey, they adopted a League Of Legends gremlin together, so thats cool~.

    Honestly that part got me a bit confused. If all gorgons are female, then shouldn't they require males of other species to reproduce? Like isn't that supposed to be how it works? Or is Vraska genuinely surprised it didn't work, because normally should, hinting at either of them being infertile?

    Not a big fan of Loot to be honest. I genuinely dislike "aggressively cute" designs. Why does it have to look like a pokemon and can't, you know, look like a real thing?


    Jace actually simply needed Proft's ability to materialize his (illusionary) mindscapes and evidence reconstructions to make his own illusions more realistic and touchable (first to play Ashiok, but it is hinted that they need it for the plan later on as well).

    And as someone else said before, gorgons seem like an all female species, so they probably reproduce via some form of (magically assisted?) parthenogenesis and don't really get anything from a male counterpart (which is why even in a fantasy setting they might not get hybrid children with other species).

    Lastly, I think the vitriol against the cutesy design of Loot is a bit overblown (in general, not specifically by you mind you). It's a bit exaggerated, sure, but I think it is also meant to stand out quite a bit, in addition to being a pretty young child (baby schema is in full effect here). I think his showcase art shows him in a bit less exaggerated way, and while still cute, he doesn't stand out too much.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on OTJ Outlaws of Thunder Junction Worldbuilding and Story
    Quote from Spaz350 »
    Anyone else getting big "Uh oh" vibes from Jace and Vraska's new mindset? One doesn't exactly start talking about Multiversal rebirth and burning things down while expecting things to be happy and sunny.

    The path to hell being paved with good intentions... so yeah, I am kinda worried. Especially because the three are such a sweet family together now, don't want them to throw it all away in the end. But, we don't know yet what exactly the plan is. They are certainly not wrong that the Omenpaths are ripe for abuse (and probably are already being abused by people like Tezzeret). I think we will have to wait and see what exactly their plan entails. Loved these two epilogue stories by the way, well written and connecting many pieces of the lore together.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Tarkir and colonialism
    Very thorough and interesting look into the pros and cons of Tarkir's worldbuilding. I really like that world very much and I am still looking forward to the return to it, but I must admit, I unfortunately don't believe that the colonialism aspects (the metaphor with the Dragons as colonizers, not the unfortunate orientalist implications of some parts of the worldbuilding) were intentional, or at least not all members of the development teams were on board with it. Feels like some parts of the Tarkir block point clearly to the metaphor being in effect, but Dragons of Tarkir especially feels a little split between those parts and "dragons are cool and this is the better future for Tarkir" (which together have multiple difficult and unfortunate implications).
    I also in retrospect must agree that the Ugin-Tarkir connection becomes rather unfortunate as well with the revelation that he and with him in turn the dragon storms, are not even native to Tarkir. And it was never explained how he so deeply connected himself to the plane. And even though I liked March of the Machine overall, I really didn't understand the whole "Ojutai teams up with a random Kolaghan bell ringer" card at all. Probably the most ridiculous, lore-breaking pairing in the set.
    I hope they can retool some of the worldbuilding similar to what they did with Kamigawa and Ixalan in the upcoming return set. The seeds for a violent rebellion against the dragons have certainly been sown since Dragons of Tarkir, and to be honest, aside from maybe Ojutai (if he actually let Narset go because he is started seeing the errors of his way and not out of some elaborate scheme), the dragons would pretty much deserve it.
    The video also kinda gives the Kolaghan too much credit I feel like. Sure, on the surface her clan seems pretty much the same as the Mardu, but there is no real camadery or sense of honor anymore, with Kolaghan imparting blood-frenzies in her clan members, some of them now having cannibalistic tendencies and the dragons being so vicious that they don't even communicate with the non-dragons with anything but violence. For me, Kolaghan (if we continue the colonialism metaphor) symbolizes the utter destruction of a culture through sheer, unabashed cruelty and destruction of even close family connections. Ojutai is colonialism via censorship, reeducation and historical revisionism; Dromoka is forced cultural destruction and societal fundamentalism of colonialist values imparted on the colonized; Atarka is the environmental impact of colonialism, combined with the resource draining of the colonizers and lastly Silumgar stands for pure oppression and slavery, as well as the paranoid, controlling tendencies colonizers often exhibit.
    Let's see how the return to Tarkir pans out. But I seriously hope that they learned something from the first block.
    Posted in: Vorthos Content
  • posted a message on MKM- Murders at Karlov Manor Story and Worldbuilding
    I like the idea of Ravnica becoming a sort of hub for multiversal travel through Omenpaths. As has been previously noted, as a very cosmopolitan world with a hugely varied population, and a (relatively well working) urban infrastructure, it is probably the world that can handle that kind of traffic the best. The question is, what exactly does Niv-Mizzet thinks he can gain out of that for himself and or for Ravnica in its entirety?

    Also, small prediction, Ravnica will be one of the worlds that will feature in the "Death race through Omenpaths" set. Or it will serve as the main hub to view the event from.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on LCI- The Lost Caverns of Ixalan Story and Worldbuilding
    Quote from Flisch »
    Quote from ChrisBP7 »
    *snip*

    Okay, so I finally read the planeswalker guide. I didn't want to respond before having done that.

    I want to say though that the stories came out before the guide, so any "that was explained in the guide" goes out the window. I judged the writing by itself, by the material that was there when it was published, which in my opinion is an entirely fair and a sensible thing to do.

    As for your retort regarding the colonization thing: Wayta is not part of the Oltec, so her reaction has nothing to do with the Fomori. The rest is a big shrug, because as I said I don't think it makes sense to factor the guide in there when it was not out at the time.

    The issue with gnome is that it is one of those fiction vs real life things. Yes, inside the world of fiction gnome is a loan word for the oltec, but for the readers it isn't. That's what makes it jarring. We understand the word gnome as we understand "dinosaur". Neither are mesoamerican words or based one one, but are normal words in the english language. As such we don't see them as alien especially not in reverse (for the oltec). As I said, making them into myr and then saying that the myr come from the fomori (because myr is neither a 'native' mesoamerican nor english word) would have been a better idea imo.

    I still maintain that for an "underground set" it failed at providing that. But that has nothing to do with the guide.

    As for the guide itself: I liked it, it was very thorough. Can we pretty please get this quality for all sets going forward?


    Ok, my bad, I thought you had replied to the guide too, not just the story.

    My own memory is not the best when it comes to the stories, so I don't remember the context exactly when it comes to Wayta (though the Ixalan stories have at least implied that many people of the Sun Empire are kinda hypocritical when it comes to colonization). I do think it is not unfair though to take the backstory of the Oltecs into account when it comes to the rest, even if it was not spelled out at the time what exactly happened in their past.

    I guess it is basically a question of taste. I find the contrast of a jarringly ordinary word like gnome (to us) with a civilization which doesn't find that word ordinary at all quite interesting (and I think that both the Sun Empire and the Oltec had their own word for "dinosaur", in the former case they call them quetzacama). Myr might have worked too, and from my perspective would have been an interesting choice as well, but I don't really find it "better" per se. But again, I guess this comes down to preference.

    I am really not sure what else should have been in there as far as underground tropes are concerned, but seems this too comes down to expectation and preferences. Not really a fail if it is resonating with some people (and it certainly did so for me).

    I fully, totally agree with you on the guide though, wish we would get that for basically every world from here on out.


    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on LCI- The Lost Caverns of Ixalan Story and Worldbuilding
    Quote from Flisch »
    Well, that was about to be expected quality-wise, so let's not go into the same old as always. My favorite part was when it was said the Mycotyrant has been trying to find a way into the core since forever, and Malcom and Breeches find him, run for ten meters and immediately end up in the core. Lol, rofl and lmfao.

    Besides that, it's funny how they upgraded "every character has read the script" into "every character has read the author's notes". The Oltec had never been colonized. The Fomori certainly tried, but ultimately failed. The post-colonization trauma does not exist in Ixalan's core (and neither on its surface, except ironically enough for the pirates who -also ironically enough- never get the narrative treatment of "victims of colonization") and yet Wayta and that Oltec character what's-their-face get all preachy on Quint.

    Not only did it not make sense in the story/worldbuilding and was unearned by the characters voicing it, but it was also beyond blunt, like the story took a short break and talked directly at the camera. Remember: A sledgehammer is not a good writing utensil.

    Also not entirely sure about the Abuelo stuff and why they used gnomes. I think Myr would have been a better fit. Sure, the term also comes from greek, but it's an MtG invention and as such is less tied to RL mythology and culture. (Also, would have been cute if both known occurences of Myr show up in hollow worlds.



    Something else entirely: I am completely flabberghasted how much they fumbled the original idea of an underground set. Sure, it's in the name and I guess there's caves, but beyond that, nothing about the set screams "the theme is underground" to me. If you had asked me what it was about, creatively AND mechanically, I would have shrugged and said "hollow world???". But the mechanics are just basic adventure, like original Ixalan, and crafting which honestly felt more like an "artifacts matter" inclusion than an "underground -> minecraft -> crafting" association.

    They made this set because people have been asking about underground sets, but this ain't it, neither creatively nor mechanically. Watch Maro bring exactly this up in his post-mortem.


    I can't agree on many of these points. The Fomori definitely colonized the Oltec, the Planeswalker's guide explicitely says that they were in power in the core for a long time (and the diminishing of the inner sun weakened the god's connection to the core, so they weren't able to help or at least give the people there some solace).

    The Night War is the title of an epic poem that spans three centuries of history, charting the beginning of Olanem Teq's work to build a resistance through the end of the struggle that followed. The war scoured the Core but saw the Komon Winaq victorious.


    So the Fomori were in power for at least three centuries, probably quite some time longer. Sounds to me like it would leave some serious trauma, especially with the evidence of the colonization still very much visible in the core, the loss of the inner sun for a while and the gods not being available at the time. So "sledgehammer"? Yeah maybe. But people reacting sensitive to such subjects is not that surprising. "Unearned" though? I don't see it. The trauma of the pirates should probably be explored more, but their colonization was pretty recent in contrast, and they are not a unified culture with its own historians and scholars that could analyze what happened to them. In addition to that I think their need for freedom and their strong survivalist instincts are a result of the trauma of being colonized by the vampires (I think as much was even hinted at in the guide). They pretty much didn't have the time or motivation for much introspection in that regard and instead projected it outwards.

    The mycotyrant is pretty much everywhere in the caves, so Malcolm and Breeches coming across it and then (after a pretty long march while they were already underground at the start) finding one of the entrances is not that strange to me. Now why the Mycotyrant seemingly can't open the entrances itself, I don't know, but there could be any number of reasons. Even the guide states though that it is already pressing on multiple entrances, so it is not like it doesn't know their location.

    I am also more iffy on "abuelo" being a word the Oltec use than "gnome". I thought it was pretty well established in the guide that this is a loanword they explicitely took to remind themselves of where this technology comes from by virtue of it being so foreign to them. Seems reasonable to me.

    I also think the set covered many if not most underground tropes pretty well. "Hollow world" definitely can be part of an underground theme overall, so I don't mind the prominence of the core. Caves, the multiple cards showing mining, deep chasms, underground threats (like being caught in a flooding cavern or falling rocks, as well as dangerous lifeforms like the Mycotyrant), ancient cultures and artifacts hidden throughout the underground, adaptations to that kind of world (the deep goblins for example)... that was all present. The set was not JUST an underground set, but the theme was definitely recognizable. And mechanically the various forms of Descent showed the underground part of the set well.

    I don't know, normally even if I don't agree with you I at least can see where you are coming from, but this is just accentuating the negative even if there isn't that much (in my opinion) to accentuate. I thought this Planeswalker's Guide was a surprising treat, they really worked on the worldbuilding a lot, and I personally was positively surprised by it. Ixalan went from one of my less liked to one of my favorite planes through this set.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on LCI- The Lost Caverns of Ixalan Story and Worldbuilding
    Quote from KavuMonarch »
    So, as Master's Manufactory revealed, the Fomori were once a thing on (or in?) Ixalan. So what do we make of that?


    Seems clear to me that at some point in the past the Fomori were extraplanar colonizers whose (apparently quite magi-technologically advanced) empire broke down for some reason, and that they are equivalent to the coin empire that Quint is researching. We don't know enough about them to draw any conclusions, but I am pretty interested where this plot thread is going.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on [LCI] Sunken Citadel and Master's Guide Mural // Master's Manufactory — Le Journal du Geek preview
    Quote from foam_dome »
    Ayo the Fomori were from Ixalan? I thought they were from the plane of Ir, unless Wizards is gonna retcon all that.


    No, apparently, according to the main story, millenia ago, the ancestors of the Oltec were close to being conquered by who they call "the colonizers", which were giants in enormous flying machines that appeared out of nowhere. They were the ones who closed the inner sun off in the first place. Quint thinks that they are equivalent to the "coin empire" he is researching that has left artifacts all over the multiverse and seemingly was present on multiple planes ages ago. The main story even ends with him exploring one of the downed ships that's been left in a closed off part of the core and accidentally waking one giant up from what appears to be some kind of suspended animation.

    Well, and the card here now indicates that the coin empire was in fact run by the ancestors of the Fomori (which are indeed from Ir) who have apparently once travelled the multiverse and tried to colonize it. Not a retcon, but a twist I certainly wouldn't have seen coming.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [LCI] Sunken Citadel and Master's Guide Mural // Master's Manufactory — Le Journal du Geek preview
    Quote from Lectrys »
    Hmm, maybe the Fomori made those "Coin Empire" coins Quintorius is researching if it wasn't Ixalani who created them (like this block's stories imply)?

    It seems that way. I am just surprised that the Fomori apparently were the giant colonizers that the Oltec were talking about. Last we heard of them was in Planechase if I remember correctly... and Future Sight.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [LTR] Théoden, King of Rohan — Marca Gaming preview
    I agree, no one is forced to like these changes. But unless some person can tell me why the hell skin color is so important for Tolkien's work, I don't see anything problematic with it either. I personally like to see some interesting reinterpretation from time to time. Why not? When I think Theoden, I don't immediately think 'white'. I think of his corruption through Saruman and Wormtongue, his loss of his son, his relationship to Eomer and Eowyn etc.

    Also if LotR is a myth for Great Britain basically about a long gone era of humanity (which Tolkien states is the case) then people having dark skin makes perfect sense, seeing as this was the case for the civilizations of Britain only 6000 years ago (considering how long ago when compared to the modern era LotR needs to be, that fits perfectly). So even from that standpoint it seems fine to me (even though Tolkien wouldn't have known about that fact).

    But yes, no one has to like it. I do. You can't argue about taste though. Either side is valid.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on MOM/MAT- March of the Machine + Aftermath Worldbuilding, Lore and Story
    Quote from Flisch »
    Quote from 5colors »
    If the DnD book info is correct Kruphix and Klothys likely weren't corrupted as they aren't reliant on worship like the younger gods.

    Let's hope they remember that detail then...

    Also, isn't it at odds with what Kruphix said in that one story to his follower? I do remember him implying he's basically subject to the same "rules" as the other gods and that all gods on Theros always have. Like with the whole "Heliod isn't the first sun god, but nobody remembers the previous ones, so they faded away"


    I think he implied that he isn't sure whether he has always been immutable in contrast to the other gods, but it definitely appears like him and Klothys aren't as reliant on followers as the others, both have none or almost no believers and still seem to be pretty damn powerful. The DnD book stated (if I remember correctly) that their domains are so ingrained in the nature of the world and sapient consciousness that they are generated no matter how many people specifically believe in them. I have to say though, that doesn't mean that they would be immune to compleation, since it doesn't state that they can't be changed to some degree by belief.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on [MOM] Invasion of Zendikar // Awakened Skyclave — Press Start preview
    Quote from Flisch »
    Quote from ChrisBP7 »
    I think that's the idea behind giving it to the opponent, they are the phyrexian side in this so to speak, and once you have broken through the siege (i.e. they weren't able to defend their stronghold), you get your reward. But I have to admit, it's a bit roundabout. And I agree that they should have made the textbox slightly transparent so we see more of this awesome artwork!

    But the card is called "Invasion of Zendikar" and the card type is "Siege". The opponent that protects it is the defender. From the wording it's very clear that it's the phyrexian side that's supposed to cast this.

    If the opponent protects the invasion then they are the invader, right? As I said, this is a bit strange and roundabout wording, maybe because of future uses of Battles?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [MOM] Invasion of Zendikar // Awakened Skyclave — Press Start preview
    Quote from Flisch »
    I assume the "protect" means that the player protecting it can block incoming attackers? But what does "whenever a player protects it" mean,a s we've seen on Maro's teaser? Just when you block?

    Also, not a huge fan of the opaque textbox, it covers up so much of the art. And a narrow horizontal band of art feels very claustrophobic and doesn't have the same appeal as sagas. I would have prefered the cards were vertically oriented like any other card.

    And I'm confused about the flavour. I assumed that the battle represents the phyrexian side, because it's called "Invasion of" and not "Defense of". And yet, when you win, the plane's defenders get a card? Huh? The flavour text makes it clear that Awakened Skyclave is not a phyrexian card but a zendikari card. And I'm a tad baffled at the decision behind it.

    Also, the kerning around the "You" in the first line is absolutely driving me crazy. XD


    I think that's the idea behind giving it to the opponent, they are the phyrexian side in this so to speak, and once you have broken through the siege (i.e. they weren't able to defend their stronghold), you get your reward. But I have to admit, it's a bit roundabout. And I agree that they should have made the textbox slightly transparent so we see more of this awesome artwork!
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Dumpster driving leakers have struck again for Lord of the rings set — Reddit
    Quote from Gizlivadi »
    Do actual people actually care that they made Aragorn black?


    Yes, some people who care both for Magic the Gathering (THE Trading Card Game par excellence) and Lord of the Rings (one of the last, if not the last true and exemplar modern product of a particularly European -specifically Germanic and Norse- sensibility and heritage), care that their favorite game represents their most beloved cultural product well.

    When it comes to Tolkien, I think people should realize that a big section of the fans don't just see his works as "generic fantasy world". They see a manifestation of a culture they identify with. Just like the Japanese would see Ruruoni Kenshin or other Samurai/Yokai/etc stories. Everyone is entitled to feel pride for their culture. Does that mean that nobody else can enjoy Samurai anime or LOTR? Of course not, but that doesn't mean people are obligated to take well the inclusion of external ethnicities (for commercial reasons, at that) in your traditional/mythological/historical setting. Case in point: Dragon Ball Evolution. Heck, even Rings of Power to an extent.


    Alright, putting aside the reasons for why WotC did this, this whole 'LotR is basically a manifestation of the culture of a certain ethnicity and how they see the world, and therefore external ethnicities should have no place in it' is... Let's just say, a very special kind of interpretation in and of itself. I love LotR, and yeah, Tolkien imagined it to be along the lines of Beowulf, a form of ancient myth for the British people, which he thought they were lacking. Notice that it was specifically british people. Nothing about skin tone or something, though Tolkien obviously couldn't escape the Zeitgeist of his time entirely (his description of Orcs as looking like 'the least lovely looking mongole types' in one of his letters and the fact that ALL people of color appearing in LotR are on the side of evil are good indicators of that). So what exactly is the ethnicity you mean whose 'cultural manifestation' LotR supposedly is, and what exactly does skin color change about the story? We can discuss all day long what Tolkien believed, but my point is that unless you follow his myth-making almost religiously (in which case yes, as a british person you could maybe become upset about this, since the 3rd age Numenorans can be interpreted as expies of you, just like the Hobbits are), this change means nothing. This is not a historic story, this is not changing historic people's ethnicities. There is no cultural baggage that would influence LotR if there were black Numenorans (or elves or whatever) into another direction, unless you believe some weird stereotypes. So... Is the change necessary? Not really. Is it a disgrace to LotR? No. It is pretty much a stylistic choice.
    Oh and most legends and myths of cultures across the world are surprisingly diverse, the Japanese for example have stories of Yasuke, the first foreign, black Samurai (16th century). So no, that's not as monolithic as you think it is either. I understand and actually might agree that it is a corporate driven decision by WotC, but this kind of discussion always veers into the strangest directions.

    Switching back to the cards, Aragorn and Arwen are interesting in GW, and Gollum's flavor is on point in my opinion.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on ONE- Phyrexia: All Will Be One stories, lore and world-building
    Quote from Flisch »
    Quote from ChrisBP7 »
    I mean, you do remember that the multiverse almost WAS destroyed partly because of the Sylex, right?

    I mean the 'partly' is the huge kicker here. The sylex did some damage and that only because Dominaria was the nexus. The 'real' damage was done by various oldwalkers doing oldwalker magic which isn't really possible anymore. Neither is Dominaria the nexus anymore, nor are there still oldwalkers so the damage is not comparable.

    I also want to cast doubt on the idea that the time spiral crisis was threatening all of the multiverse. We didn't really see other planes being affected the same way Dominaria was. And it isn't unthinkable that even if the multiverse was coming apart by the rifts, that the eldrazi might have cleaned up the damage once Zendikar was destroyed.

    We know so little about the multiverse mechanics, but we do know that it has existed for an unimaginably long time. Again, if it was this easy to destroy the multiverse, it would've happened already.


    Fair enough, a multiversal collapse or something like that is very unlikely, I give you that. But I think (and maybe I misread that) the whole point was that the repercussions could be disastrous in any number of ways. There doesn't need to be a total destruction of the multiverse, destroying the planes connected to Realmbreaker or making them uninhabitable would probably at least give me pause on whether this was still such a great plan as well. As you said, the mechanics are very much unknown, the mission parameters were not the same as at the start of it all anymore now that Realmbreaker had already connected elsewhere. My point was that I can therefore understand Kaya and Kaito's position, too many unknowns and potential, uncontained dangers to follow through with the original plan.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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