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Magic Market Index for April 20th, 2018
 
Pauper Review: Dominaria
 
The Limited Archetypes of Dominaria
  • posted a message on "Weatherlight can no longer planeshift..."
    Quote from Davinel »
    I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Weatherlight can planeshift again at one point of the story. Or maybe it will be destroyed again ? :p


    Quote from ChrisBP7 »
    Quote from Omnirahk »
    Quote from 5colors »


    Elspeth did this all through Godsend, she made aether clones of soldiers and even a Archon.


    What really? well I was wrong then.

    That is really really stupid.


    Kiora also did it in the story Drop for Drop. Here's the relevant quote:

    Reaching out across the Blind Eternities, she gathered to her the essence of every sea-beast she had ever called her own. She pulled those essences to her one by one, manifested them in Theros's seas.


    Actually, wasn't Kioras whole mission on Theros at that time to establish a connection to Arixmethes (the immense Kraken) so that she could summon an aether copy of him wherever she liked? I never liked the explanation that planeswalkers could summon the original creatures from other planes. It has so much moral baggage and you would have to constantly explain away all the logical difficulties that this causes, especially after it was clearly established that the mending made interplanar travel for organic beings which are not planeswalkers or Eldrazi deadly. Also,they are mostly summoned to fight, so if planeswalkers summon the originals, does that mean that the originals simply die if they lose? Wouldn't that cause enormous problems if thousands of people and creatures constantly vanish and never return? Are they mind-controlled into doing the planeswalkers bidding? If not, why don't they object, if so, how could the more morally upstanding planeswalkers ever deal with the moral problems of doing so? It just raises too many questions, which the "aether copy summoning" explanation doesn't.


    Most problems can be easily solved by considering you summon creatures from a specific period in a timeline amongst an infinity of timelines; if theses creatures die, they still exist in other timelines so there is no shortage. Simple.
    The other logical difficulties can be justified precisely because we have very few informations on the details of players fights. So, many questions are raised but twice as many responses can be raised too.

    Also, you're way too focused on the moral stuff, for me, a planeswalker with morals can make a pact with mutual consent with a creature and that's all.
    If the creature is interested, good.
    If the creature is not even a sentient being or not interested, the moralist planeswalker deal with it and don't bind the creature.
    So why someone would willingly accept to be bounded to the will of a demigod in order to be summoned and sacrificed against monstrosities who did nothing to you and to whom you'd prefer not do anything ?
    We can work our imagination, there's plenty of room : honor stuff, oath affair, fight for the good cause, etc Smile
    (of course, there is no need to make all theses justifications if you're an immoral planeswalker, for you just have to bind creatures against their will)


    The "aether copy summoning" thing lack in epicness, it's like wearing counterfeit products. Or making a movie and lowering the budget. In the end, you can still imagine you will summon mere copies but i'll consider my creatures are the real deal Cool



    I guess in the end everything depends on personal preference... when it comes to imagining it for the game. Storywise though it's clear that aether duplicate summoning is the way these things go (at least when it comes to summoning beings from another plane). This is just a matter of plot consistency at this point. Also I reject the alternate timeline idea, not only because it leads to even further questions (since for example such breaches into different timelines were seen as a sign of the multiversal apocalypse in Planar Chaos), but also because it is nearly exactly as "boring" as simply cloning the creature via aether. Either way it's not the real deal from your time stream and for all intents and purposes the aether clone might vary less from the original than an alternate timeline counterpart which could have had different experiences and be totally different. In my opinion connecting to a creature/sentient being in such a way that you are able to duplicate them and their feats for a short time is very impressive anyway.

    In regards to the Weatherlight: I can't believe that they would build up this new team and then leave them on Dominaria for at least a few years after only a few stories with them. It might not happen in Dominaria or even before the final confrontation with Bolas, but New Phyrexia is rising and what better way to fight them off than with the same ship with which their older counterpart was defeated. Sooner or later it will get its planeswalking power back somehow (mirroring Teferi now that I think about it).
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on "Weatherlight can no longer planeshift..."
    Quote from Omnirahk »
    Quote from 5colors »
    Really ? Good, i've never liked the idea of summoning mere copies instead of the originals.


    The old planeswalkers could sort of do that, it was -really really- rare to see them actually do it in the books though.


    Elspeth did this all through Godsend, she made aether clones of soldiers and even a Archon.


    What really? well I was wrong then.

    That is really really stupid.


    Kiora also did it in the story Drop for Drop. Here's the relevant quote:

    Reaching out across the Blind Eternities, she gathered to her the essence of every sea-beast she had ever called her own. She pulled those essences to her one by one, manifested them in Theros's seas.


    Actually, wasn't Kioras whole mission on Theros at that time to establish a connection to Arixmethes (the immense Kraken) so that she could summon an aether copy of him wherever she liked? I never liked the explanation that planeswalkers could summon the original creatures from other planes. It has so much moral baggage and you would have to constantly explain away all the logical difficulties that this causes, especially after it was clearly established that the mending made interplanar travel for organic beings which are not planeswalkers or Eldrazi deadly. Also,they are mostly summoned to fight, so if planeswalkers summon the originals, does that mean that the originals simply die if they lose? Wouldn't that cause enormous problems if thousands of people and creatures constantly vanish and never return? Are they mind-controlled into doing the planeswalkers bidding? If not, why don't they object, if so, how could the more morally upstanding planeswalkers ever deal with the moral problems of doing so? It just raises too many questions, which the "aether copy summoning" explanation doesn't.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Settle the Score Gathering Magic promo
    I think betting on Liliana NOT being free after killing Belzenlock is pretty much a given, right? Like the card, interesting that they are more willing now to put "planeswalker"-related effects on cards other than rares and mythics.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Homarid Explorer (C) + New Goblin art
    Quote from Xenocyde3000 »
    Back to Portal, then?


    Ye, that separation line is kinda weird. Hopefully this just a one time only, blast from the past thing.


    From what I understand this will be a permanent thing from Dominaria onwards. I don't mind it at all though. Looks subtle enough not to distract.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Packaging for Dominaria and M19
    I think Wizards has to remind people that spoiled art can be of random, nameless common and uncommon creatures as well as important legendary creatures and planeswalkers. Art quality definitely doesn't have anything to do with rarity or importance. Remember when Scrapper Champion's art got spoiled when Aether Revolt was being teased, and a bunch of people thought it was Saheeli because people just assumed that this human woman from Kaladesh just had to be someone important?


    A few people thought that the art was for Saheeli, but the much larger incident surrounding that art was people thinking it was for a legendary creature, and understandably so: WotC put that art with the name "Advika Taar" and a character bio on their website next to a bunch of other characters' names, art, and bios (https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/aether-revolt). Everyone assumed that there would be cards for Advika Taar and Surash along with the other characters, since Kambal already had a card in Kaladesh and Sram and Rishkar were later confirmed in Aether Revolt. There was even speculation of Advika Taar being the long-awaited UR artificer legend, making it all the more heartbreaking for those people when Advika Taar's artwork ended up on a random uncommon (Surash had no art at all, oddly) and neither appeared in the actual story. This is made even worse by the fact that they had five characters with cards in Aether Revolt that they easily could have put on that page - Sram, Baral, Yahenni, Kari Zev, and Rishkar - yet for some god-forsaken reason whoever designed that web page decided to use only two of them and replace the other three with one character from the previous set and two characters that didn't actually exist.

    It's perfectly fair to blame the fanbase for hasty assumptions of random art being planeswalkers - both in the past and with the alleged "Narset" and "Huatli" art now - but the misconception with Scrapper Champion was more that it was a new legend than that it was Saheeli, and unlike those other instances, you can't really blame the players for interpreting it that way because they had just about every reason to believe it was a legendary creature. That time it was entirely WotC's fault for being disorganized and misleading on their own website.


    Actually I've always interpreted this differently: Scrapper Champion and all the other cards with arts that had bios on the website but weren't legendary creatures (there were a few actually) DID show these legendaries as part of a world-building effort, but since they understandably shy away from having too many legendaries (and especially ones with smaller effects) in a set after what happened with Kamigawa the compromise was that the art does show the people the bios talk about, but the cards only show their general occupation or role. I don't think that it has anything to do with being misleading.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from Flisch »
    Oh, I just remembered something. You know how after we saw the picture of Ixalan's Binding and despite the fact that's it's basically the Azorius Symbol people went "nah it's nothing, it's a very basic shape, Azor has literally nothing to do with this".

    Well, I don't want to say "I told you so", but I told you so. :^)


    As an Azor-sceptic I submit to your superior wisdom, oh wise one. Though at least the theory that Ugin is involved wasn't that far from the truth either.

    All in all, Ixalans stories (in my humble opinion) had their flaws, particularly in the "Rivals" part, but I liked the world, I loved the character growth for Jace and Vraska, the revelation to where it all leads to (Ravnica, my favorite plane and finally with a serious threat again which hopefully unites the guilds somewhat). Since I'm someone who tries to accentuate the positives, this was actually a rather good follow-up to the bleak Amonkhet storyline which I liked a lot (but after which a more "light-hearted" story was clearly needed). Looking forward to Dominaria and what has changed since the mending (Teferi has grown a beard and someone has built a Weatherlight-like air ship. That's what I've taken out of it for now :D)
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on "Golden Guardian" // "Gold-Forge Garrison" .:. BigMagic Spoiler
    Quote from schindar »
    I got this card in two different prereleases. There were just too many hoops to jump through to make this anything more than a 4/4 defender for 4. I'm quite confident that there are constructed decks that can do some fun things with it but the juice just isn't worth the squeeze in limited.


    I also got this card and had a wildly different experience. It was extremely easy for me to transform it and by letting it fight with either small lifegain vampire tokens (and then blocking an opponents creature with it) or with huge lifegainers and enrage creatures I got life, the land, and many possible triggers out of it. There was not a single time I had particular difficulties transforming it.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Nahiri, Sword Adept
    Quote from Etherium Sage »
    Quote from ChrisBP7 »
    I like the design, but I think that the -7 is too busted. It's nearly always an instant kill and you reach it in 2 rounds after casting Nahiri, directly if you ccontrol Doubling Season or the like. I would prefer an ultimate that has either another emblem or one that keeps the emblem but "only" creates one pretty good equipment.


    You probably already realize this, but the idea with the ultimate and the -3 is to represent Nahiri's abilities to remote control the swords she makes.

    I changed the ultimate emblem to be an animation ability instead, but the swords in this case can only hit players and planeswalkers, so I don't know if that's appropriate or not.



    I think that I like this new emblem more. It might be *slightly* less flavorful, but it isn't as busted as before and still brings the general idea across.
    Posted in: Custom Card Creation
  • posted a message on Nahiri, Sword Adept
    I like the design, but I think that the -7 is too busted. It's nearly always an instant kill and you reach it in 2 rounds after casting Nahiri, directly if you ccontrol Doubling Season or the like. I would prefer an ultimate that has either another emblem or one that keeps the emblem but "only" creates one pretty good equipment.
    Posted in: Custom Card Creation
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from Flisch »
    Quote from Etherium Sage »
    Quote from Flisch »
    I don't understand this sentiment at all. In a narrative, not every character can be the day-saving hero. Not every location can be the big arena and not every chapter can be the huge relevation. Different parts serve different purposes. Personally I don't even see how it would make Ixalan any more of a backdrop than Kaladesh or Amonkhet. It has its own story (race for the immortal sun). Having a connection to another story arc doesn't make it background noise.


    I think, to some extent, some folks want the story to go back to when practically every introduced plane had its own self-contained story (if it had a story, that is).

    So does Ixalan. The race for the big price is a story in itself. I mean, one could argue Lorwyn was even more of a backdrop, because it's entire story was an echo of the mending.

    Really, stories have been connected ever since, and stories always had variable amounts of stakes. That is nothing new. Except now the connections are more obvious because we don't have to wait five years for a plotpoint from before to be picked up again.

    Quote from Mister M »
    Quote from Flisch »
    How is Huatli a hypocrite? It's their culture. They pride themselves in only subduing their opponents and let the killing to the dinos (and warriors). It's a martial/military stylistic choice. We have plenty of similar things in real life. It would be hypocrisy if she didn't kill if she believed killing was morally wrong. That is not the case.


    As I believe I am the one who originally brought up this theory, I feel an obligation to make sure it isn't taken too far. I originally brought it up because we didn't know Huatli's reasons for refusing to kill, whether it was a moral position or a way of demonstrating superior prowess. It may be the case that she believes killing is wrong and is a hypocrite. Or it may not be. AFAIK, we still don't have the information to tell us.

    I think it was confirmed recently. Either on someone's twitter or in last week's article. Basically the knights (a high rank amongst the military) don't kill themselves. Kind of like a special martial art, they kill through dinosaur, without getting their hand dirty. (literal dirty, not guilt dirty). It's a cultural thing, not a moral thing.


    No, I'm actually against doing self-contained stories without any further connections. The thing I liked about the faster pace WAS that we didn't have to wait so long for the next plot point. There is a difference however between Kaladesh and Amonkhet being part of the larger Bolas-related story and Ixalan now. Both of these connections were clear AND part of the plane-contained story: The Planar Bridge was part of the reason Tezzeret took control of the inventions at the fair, leading to the revolution. I don't think I need to explain Amonkhet. Both worlds were the pure focus of their respective storylines, even when they were integrated into a larger one. But Azor suddenly being the focus of Ixalan (and yes, he would definitely become the focus, since they would have to explain his whole non-foreshadowed connection to the plane, his character AND his goals which would take quite some time)? Without any background or logical connection (meaning story connection, I know of the aesthetical connections)? That just rubs me the wrong way. Ugin I would get, we know that he had goals beyond Tarkir (and that he worked with other planeswalkers). He also fits the aesthetic of Ixalan itself, being a kind of "feathered snake". I don't know, I might be wrong, but as I said, Azor doesn't feel right for me. I could be wrong of course.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from Etherium Sage »
    Quote from ChrisBP7 »
    Where in the story are we really supposed to see Huatli as a good guy? I think the fact that she and the empire are both very hypocritical is part of their characters. People were complaining earlier that both came across as "too good" in relation to the pirates or the vampires, and now some are complaining that they get a huge flaw, namely hypocrisy? Before the story even began it was pretty clear that the empire sees nothing wrong in letting their dinosaurs slaughter other people and the stories make it clear now that they do so while praising themselves for not killing others directly. So there. I hope they will give Huatli some kind of revelation on this in Rivals, especially since the emperor seems very shady, trying to exploit her without giving her much back.


    I wasn't complaining though, assuming this is in response to me.

    Also, speaking of the Emperor's promise, the Warrior-Poet title means a lot to Huatli, so it's much from her perspective. That said, I don't really trust him either, and I think if they want to make Huatli's story more interesting, that could be used as a way of further developing her character.


    Sorry, that first part wasn't meant as a response towards you but more of a general response to the discussion. Also, remember that although she already accomplished much he withheld her the title multiple times, knowing fully well how much it means to her and using it to exploit her. At least that's how it came across for me.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Where in the story are we really supposed to see Huatli as a good guy? I think the fact that she and the empire are both very hypocritical is part of their characters. People were complaining earlier that both came across as "too good" in relation to the pirates or the vampires, and now some are complaining that they get a huge flaw, namely hypocrisy? Before the story even began it was pretty clear that the empire sees nothing wrong in letting their dinosaurs slaughter other people and the stories make it clear now that they do so while praising themselves for not killing others directly. So there. I hope they will give Huatli some kind of revelation on this in Rivals, especially since the emperor seems very shady, trying to exploit her without giving her much back.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Where in the story are we really supposed to see Huatli as a good guy? I think the fact that she and the empire are both very hypocritical is part of their characters. People were complaining earlier that both came across as "too good" in relation to the pirates or the vampires, and now some are complaining that they get a huge flaw, namely hypocrisy? Before the story even began it was pretty clear that the empire sees nothing wrong in letting their dinosaurs slaughter other people and the stories make it clear now that they do so while praising themselves for not killing others directly. So there. I hope they will give Huatli some kind of revelation on this in Rivals, especially since the emperor seems very shady, trying to exploit her without giving her much back.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from Jay13x »
    Quote from Joao Wockeez »
    On another news, what do you guys think will be the role of the new Elder Dino thing ?
    Likely a guardian of Orazca of some sort? Or something sealed with Orazca that was now released.


    The Dread Guardian of Orazca that Hualti will take control of, proving how awesome and great she is and it won't totally be boring and groan inducing.


    Ok, this definitely leaves the realm of constructive criticism. The whole guardian thing is speculation, so directly interpreting it as something negative by adding further speculations without any evidence for them, just to further moan about the (potential) story, is really unhelpful. I could understand that you hate Amonkhet and wanted to vent your frustration by constantly reminding us (although I and several others disagree with you obviously), but you are taking it too far if you do that all the time from now on.

    I'm still not convinced by the whole Azor connection. Aside from some REALLY vague similarities of certain symbols in Ixalan to the Azorius signet there was no build up at all for such a revelation. Azor isn't an active player in the story (unlike Ugin) and making all of Ixalan background noise for Ravnica 3 would be kind of disappointing (and I like Ravnica). I still believe that the sphinx (if it isn't just an Ixalan native) is one of Bolas or even Ugins minions. But we'll see obviously.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from Etherium Sage »
    Quote from Joao Wockeez »
    Honestly i hope that sphinx is in fact Azor, idk much about the guy, but i would rather it being him then Ugin.]

    Buuuuut, there's also a chance that sphinxes are a part of Ixalan, but all of them retrated to Orazca, who know maybe sphinxes are the last line of defense.


    To be fair, no-one knows much about the guy. He founded the Azorius guild, he authored the original Guildpact, and he wasn't native to Ravnica.

    Beyond that, the details about Azor are ambiguous or unknown.


    I don't want to disturb everyones favorite theory, but you all seem to have forgotten that there is another explanation for the sphinx (aside from it being native, which would be a bit difficult to explain), namely that he is actually Bolas' minion that Vraska was ordered to call to Ixalan after she found the Immortal Sun. I'm still betting on Ugin to be involved, but that's nearly equally uncertain. I haven't read The Secretist, but wasn't Azor talking to Jace in some form of recording at the end? Or am I wrong? Did he have a form there? I still doubt that that's the way the story will go.

    Aside from the pretty much obvious Emrakul reveal (which everyone seems to have forgotten was dismissed pretty hard at the start of SOI, nowadays it seems to me as if everyone knew of it from the start looking at the comments. Weird.) the creative team has gotten better at subverting certain expectations (Amonkhet NOT being created by Bolas certainly shifted the mood for that story significantly). Azor is at the same time a strange choice (we know next to nothing about him and he would inhabit the same character space as Ugin more or less, which would lead me to question why they didn't use Ugin in the first place) and, for a lack of a better word, too simple. Two Ravnica-related characters on the same world? Must mean that another Ravnica-related character is behind it all so that we can neatly lead to Ravnica 3 AND potentially solve the whole "Jace as the guildpact issue". I'm normally someone trying to defend the writing since it has gotten considerably better and is often critisized unfairly, but that would be just extremely lazy writing and would feel unearned, taking away potentially good conflict (why build up Jace being absent from Ravnica and things going awry there for multiple years if you just ignore that in the end?). I actually hope that they don't go this route.

    EDIT: An actual (if small) twist would be that while the sphinx is a planeswalker and the guardian of the Immortal Sun, it's actually a minion of Ugin, not Bolas. Why should only the latter employ other planeswalkers to do his bidding? And Ugin has set a precedent with ordering Nahiri and Sorin around. Just a thought, I obviously have no evidence for this.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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