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  • posted a message on March of the Machines Aftermath, New Netflix series, and a Cosmic Retcon
    Pretty sure that Teferi time-travelling to the Brother's war to find out how to activate the Sylex will be the only time-travel part of the story. I would feel redundant to make it the resolution for everything. That would mean the story would boil down to "Teferi travels into the past for information on the Sylex - Sylex fails - Phyrexians entirely victorious - Teferi goes back in time and stops Phyrexia" which would make half the story useless and the other half entirely illogical (why didn't he START with eradicating New Phyrexia in the past?) and as I said redundant. Think about the storylines whatever you want, but that would be too much even for Wotc to do.

    And it would be mighty strange putting two nostalgia-heavy blocks before an entire cosmic retcon that pretty much does away with all previous continuity anyway. Why then two returns afterwards if you want to start brand-new? None of that makes any sense whatsoever. There might be a restructuring of the multiverse similar to the Mending again, but definitely not a cosmic retcon in my opinion.
    Posted in: Speculation
  • posted a message on Dominaria United Story, Worldbuilding and Lore
    Quote from 5colors »
    I hate it here T.T

    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Dominaria United Story, Worldbuilding and Lore
    Quote from 5colors »
    Okay but how many major character deaths have they retcon'd? I can think of only 4, Bolas, Elsepth (who was never set up to be permanently dead), Ugin and now Ertai. Braids fate was unclear enough I don't buy it as a retcon.

    Also, how many of those had deaths significant to the storyline?
    Ugin's death and its consequences were established at the same time he was "resurrected" and it had been his plan to be rescued via time-travel from the start apparently.
    Bolas' death was a significant part of the Legends story, but that didn't have any consequences and wasn't even put into perspective (i.e. the consequences of that storyline) until they decided to bring him back as a villain.
    Elspeth, as you said, was never set up to be dead because she was clearly at the "journey into the underworld" part of the monomyth, and they weren't even subtle about her coming back.
    Was Ertai's death that significant? From what I can tell (but please correct me I am wrong) he was accidentally incinerated by Squee of all people after torturing the Goblin, without any interesting further developments coming out of that aside from Squee becoming immortal.
    On the other hand, Gideon is and will stay dead (they even swatted away the possibility of resurrecting him via Witherbloom knowledge in Strixhaven). The gods of Amonkhet (aside from Hazoreth) are and will remain dead. Dack Fayden, Domri Rade, Ulamog, Kozilek and Avacyn are and will stay dead. And the list goes on. Sure, maybe other people should have died instead, or some people have unneeded plot armor or what have you, but I find it a bit disingenuous to say that death is handled like in a comic book now.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Dominaria United Story, Worldbuilding and Lore
    Quote from Ryperior74 »

    did wizards forget Ertai is dead? Squee killed him by accident with the phyrexian healing device.

    Actually, they did not:

    Jaya, despite the fire in her hands, chilled down to her guts. Ertai. She'd heard of him, sure—one of the original crew of the Weatherlight. He'd been dead for centuries—and still had death's pallor, though some force reanimated his twitching features. His eyes possessed a terrible intelligence.

    Seems like Sheoldred's forces found his corpse and reanimated him.
    Aside from that I really find Meria intriguing, an elf who is interested in artifice and science outside of Kaladesh. Pretty rare in MtG.
    My guess who the spy is is probably not surprising:
    It's Ajani. At some point he has been captured and compleated off-screen, but as a sleeper agent himself to keep an eye on the Gatewatch, the Dominarian resistance etc.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Dominaria United Story, Worldbuilding and Lore
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    Quote from Thamosh »
    I would be shocked beyond words if Liliana ends up on Phyrexia's team. My guess is her infection will be the test case for whatever plot relevant cure the heroes think of.

    technqiuelly it’s arcavios/strixhaven nix in danger of getting phyresis and make phyrexians native in arcavios

    because liliana washing the mound in arcavios… she may have done a mistake even dumber than her other two she could have potentially done karns stupid mistake that he did in mirrodin with failing to check xantcha heart for any more glistening oil. Touch glistening oil you catch phyresis and it slowly works on turning the victim into a phyrexian.

    (Let’s face it we’re already theorizing the kennrith twins will end up in the phyrexian war somehow.)

    I think you are overestimating glistening oil a little. While yes, it can lead to phyresis and compleating people, it still needs someone to implant the metallic parts to finalize the transformation (I really think it works similar to the Borg and their nanoprobes, just not even that effective). It was so successful on Mirrodin because the whole world and its inhabitants were already infused so extremely with metal. It is mentioned somewhere that Urborg is full of the stuff too still, but under normal circumstances the danger of some random people being compleated is rather limited without an organized invasion force behind it. We'll see where this all leads.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Dominaria United Story, Worldbuilding and Lore
    Quote from Max Rebo »
    So far one of the best Horror Stories in MtG lore ever
    The paranoia, the horribleness.
    I think Sheoldred may have been one of the first to be portaled in by Tezz. It seems the extent of the infestation on Dominaria is massive. The advancement of these New Phyrexians is ridiculous. They seem way more deadly than even the old.
    The plane is falling and will fall
    This will lead to the need for the time travel set of the Brothers War as the only way to save it.
    That picture in the Liliana story, wow her face is beautiful.

    If time-travel is involved then it is more likely used by Karn to figure out where the Sylex comes from and how to use it. He is the only one who can safely travel through time anyways (excepting very special circumstances like what happened to Sarkhan and Ugin).
    On the rest I agree, holy frick, the new sleepers are truly the cybernetic version of the Thing from another world, and it seems the fight is terribly lopsided in favor of Phyrexia right now. They certainly learned from the first attempt of invading Dominaria it seems.
    It also shows the limitations of Glistening Oil though in my opinion, if only a little bit: While it is almost unbeatable in an environment rich in metal and already kind of cybernetic organisms (like Mirrodin), it seems to not have as much substrate on Dominaria. It can certainly poison people and compleat them, but without the support of already compleated beings, the process is slow, and the oil can't generate a catalyst like Mycosynth here. It's still a formidable danger, just not quite as potent as it was on Mirrodin (and it was on Dominaria already, a large quantity of it is still in Urborg). So yeah, more like a very viral form of the Borg right now. And those were always quite terrifying in their own right, soo...
    One thing I do find extremely hilarious is the resolution to who the sleeper agent is. Let's see:
    Is it one of three popular legacy characters, two of which are planeswalkers who can't be compleated without the Reality Chip, or is it the one Dominarian who was newly introduced and knew suspiciously much about the Phyrexian invader's sleepers and was the only one who went alone in the tower for a longer period of time? It really is a mystery...

    Kidding aside, I liked Stenn then morbidly transforming into an antenna to signal Sheoldred the false location (clever of Karn, though it grates on me a little how Compleated!Stenn fell for it so easily). That's just the type of Phyrexian body horror I like.
    All in all way more intriguing than I thought at first!
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Dominaria United Story, Worldbuilding and Lore
    Quote from 5colors »
    I like them showing that Sheoldred is just the humanoid bits and her scorpion was something she could pop out of. The art is very H.R. Giger which is very appropriate.

    Also can the lore people just let Karn be happy for once, poor golem can't catch a break.

    Quote from Ryperior74 »

    oh and Rona is already working with new phyrexia so clearly one clue for brothers war of being canon somehow (sheoldred has plans for karn according to Rona and I’m sure it’s not to trap him nor compleat him (jins instructions he created).)

    Yeah makes sense that Rona and other modern phyrexia lovers would be willing to jump on board to truly be compleated.

    I do wish we knew how canon "Quest for Karn" is since Karn should be immune to being compleated (again) and wonder if that is all Phyrexia has in store for him.

    I've been thinking that planeswalkers might be turned into planar gates for phyrexia and seemly Vorniclex putting a "seed" in Tibalt and the info we got the leaks makes that more certain for me.

    Regarding the canonicity of Quest for Karn, the story definitely states that Karn is immune against completion through glistening oil at the very least (via Venser's spark), so I guess QfK is still canon for the most part. It's not clear though whether it stops him from being compleated via the Reality Chip, Tezzeret at least seems to fear that the immunity he got might not stop the Phyrexians from compleating him.

    Karn really deserves a hug, that poor golem. Also shows once again how terrible Urza was. 'Well, I gave you pain so that people feel worse about destroying or damaging you' is a horrible statement, even just said jokingly (and I am pretty sure he wasn't joking).
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on OMG! Wild West Set may be coming SOON!!!
    I'm likely an outlier but I strongly prefer Magic to be swords and sorcery aka typical fantasy themed. Sets like Neon Kamigawa, New Capena, this Wild West one and so forth are sets I avoid, no matter how well they're designed or how much fun they are to draft it's not appealing to me in the slightest.

    I am likely an outlier as well, but I actually prefer any fantasy world that leaves swords and sorcery medieval high fantasy behind. For me the genre is already way too focussed on either that or low fantasy urban settings. For a genre called "Fantasy" it seems so... creatively limited this way. And the huge pull of MtG for me is that it pushes these boundaries to a degree in a way not many other fantasy settings do. And it's fine to have some standard high fantasy from time to time (like Zendikar, Eldraine and Shandalar) but the most interesting worlds for me are the more out there settings (like Kaladesh, Ravnica, and especially Kamigawa now). And I am all for a Western set with strange, magic guns. If the artwork is not fake, then I quite like their design too.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Alchemy Horizons: Baldur's Gate (Arena only) being previewed
    Quote from Flamebuster »
    Quote from Flamebuster »
    Quote from Flamebuster »

    I'm more familiar with the Dragonlance setting than Baldur's Gate. I can thank the countless bus rides between my house and college reading the Dragons of Autumn Twilight series for that wealth of flavourful knowledge Grin


    The collective lore of all MtG settings combined is a kiddy pool compared to the Forgotten Reams.

    Well yeah, D&D's been around a lot longer than MTG, and MTG got its inspiration from D&D. Not sure what the point here is...


    You'd be surprised at how many folks don't realize that, like I've folks when CLB was first announced be like how are they going to find enough major characters for this set and I'm just laughing my ass off because you could make 50 Commander Legend Forgotten Realms sets and barely scratch the surface.

    Interestingly enough the Forgotten Realms is older then D&D in the sense that Ed Green would started building the setting and maps abd stuff back in the 60-70s's (this might be why there is so many naked Goddesses and sex in FR) and then TSR bought the setting off of Ed back in the 80's for dirt cheap.

    And made it a shared world setting and hafit devour a few other settings so the lore just grows and growa.

    That's where I feel the problem lays. MTG's original lore that wasn't told through the cards is phenomenal. In fact, reading it on the fandom page reignited my love of creative writing.

    But then all this planejumping occurred and we're knee-deep in a lot of locations just barely standing on a patch of ground w/o going further to explore. If they had stuck with a handful of locations (planes) and built on that, particularly Shandalar and Dominaria--even Dominaria post-planar overlay with Rath (which itself is a cool concept to expand upon)--then I think it would've garnered a rich experience like that you mention in the D&D/Forgotten Realms world(s).


    That's your opinion, but a) we did stay on Dominaria for a VERY long time and its lore is quite rich already and b) while I agree that other planes could use some time to breathe and develop more, the problem lies in the fact that this is no roleplaying game and can therefore not convey the lore the same way. I for one love variation, and staying at Shandalar (which I find very boring) and Dominaria (which I think has had much of the story devoted to it already) for even longer times would make for a miserable experience for me, especially because I can't interact with the lore the same way you could in a pen-and-paper roleplaying game. So while I would like to get more stories and lore from the supplementary material, I much prefer MtG itself switching between planes and developing them by returning to them later on.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on A Garden of Flesh- Another one shot story featuring Elesh Norn
    Quote from Chalsis »
    While the writing was very solid, the imagery was beautifully twisted and fantastic, and there were some truly hard-hitting, unnerving moments (Elesh Norn's gut-wrenching reaction to the pity in Elspeth's eyes), I have qualms with this story's content.

    This is the very first fiction in which we've ever seen Elesh Norn appear directly. I would think this would aim to be a terrifying, character-establishing entrance, setting her up as a worthy major villain whom the audience should dread.

    Yet she is shown to be very vulnerable here. She is manipulated into feeling fear, toyed with by Ashiok. While Norn certainly retains her aura of regal menace, she is shown, in this debut fiction, during a uniquely weak and vulnerable moment in which someone else has the upper hand and is preying upon her.

    Why are we being introduced to her vulnerabilities and insecurities before we even get to see her sowing terror and kicking ass?

    This could have been mitigated somewhat if she had actually succeeded in capturing Ashiok. Norn ought to have come out on top, establishing her right here as a power whom all planeswalkers should fear.

    Anyway, I still think she's an interesting character, and this vulnerability of hers gives an interesting new dimension to her character. But this seems a bit too soon for it.

    While I agree that maybe she should have been able to capture Ashiok here to show her strengths as well, we HAVE seen her menacing side before, from card text and flavor, from the description of her in the Planeswalker's Guide, and from the description of her overwhelming the red and black Phyrexians with ease. So far everything has been going in her favor overall, so this would have been "just" another one in a long string of successes. Yes, those were all things not shown from her point of view, but I think we pretty much got a good view on how she and the white Phyrexians think in the overall flavor of the game. Your mileage may vary so to speak, but I like that she is reintroduced to us here at the top of her game, ready to conquer the multiverse, only to suddenly realize that she is not quite so perfect as she thinks she is.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on SNC- Streets of New Capenna Worldbuilding, lore and story
    Quote from Flisch »
    They changed Vivien's motivation again and this time even her backstory. Boy, they really don't know what to do with her, do they.

    Also, really curious how this phyrexian arc will play out. Is peace with the red faction possible? Will we get "good" phyrexians eventually? That would be most fascinating.

    I was under the impression that Vivien changed her mind about civilization because of what she witnessed on Ikoria, but since I never read the corresponding book, I can't be entirely sure. I actually do like her new 'civilization and nature should be balanced' characterization though.

    I like the added complexities that compleated planeswalkers and a mirran-allied phyrexian faction provide, I think the first thing this will impact is Karn's decision to blow New Phyrexia up. With the surviving Mirrans and 'friendly'
    Phyrexians, this might not be something he can just go through with.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on SNC- Streets of New Capenna Worldbuilding, lore and story
    The Magic Historian (a.k.a. Mike Hatcher) did a rant video about how bad Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro messed up on the MTG lore for Streets of New Capenna on his other YouTube Channel titled 'Hatcher' If you haven't checked it out yet. To sum up his argument for this set in terms of it's lore is literally telling people to turn their brains off and buy the cards. It's frustrating when Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro won't tell us what's actually going on within the MTG lore and leaves us guessing throughout each new set release unless it's on their official website. I get that they stopped writing print novels and stuck with posting the MTG lore on their official website though I can't help but feel that it leads to more questions than answers.

    For the Magic Historian to get THAT upset about the MTG lore involving why Elspeth and Ob-Nixilis are on New Capenna leads me to believe that Hasbro gave Wizards of the Coast not as much of a budget to work with where they don't have as much time to work on world building new sets when they're forced to meet deadline after deadline just to increase Hasbro's profit margins. It's led to a lot of the recent wallet fatigue and set stagnation we've seen over the years. I do care enough about the MTG lore enough to where I liked how things developed with how the Weatherlight crew defeated Yawgmoth and the Phyrexians back when Wizards of the Coast had a bigger budget to work with and didn't just make money machine go brrr just for the sake of it.

    Ok, what exactly where his arguments for that it sucks? Granted, New Capenna wasn't at all a masterwork of fiction, but I am pretty sure I got the gist of what happened and was pretty intrigued by some of the plot elements without being particularly angry about any specific plot point. Ob Nixilis is there because that's his whole stick, trying to conquer worlds, why not start with one that's only a single city and is also already ruled by demonic mafia heads? Elspeth is there to find out more about her apparent home plane and find something that will help against the Phyrexians. The motivations seem clear to me.

    And the world-building itself was pretty great in my opinion, certainly better than Ikoria's, but not as great as Neon Dynasty's admittedly. Yes, the format they chose is restrictive (5 stories is definitely not enough) and leads to below par pacing. It is also annoying that they can't seem to be able to line up the actual story and the cards properly, but being this angry about THIS set specifically seems... strange. I also don't see how New Capenna's lore is telling us (literally too apparently) to buy cards and turn our brains of. Care to elaborate? Also the Weatherlight saga definitely had its ups and serious downs as well (*cough* Prophecy *cough*).
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on SNC- Streets of New Capenna Worldbuilding, lore and story
    Hm, Quest for Karn still seems to be mostly canon (Venser died saving Karn, Elspeth is known to the Phyrexians, Tezzeret works with them (though maybe because of different motives)) so both Elspeth and Tezzeret should still be immune to the glistening oil and therefore compleation. Unless the compleation process for planeswalkers with the reality chip somehow undermines the immunity of course. So it might be that Vivian is the one most in danger of being compleated by the end of the story (with her motivations of combining nature with technology into a balanced whole being warped to think of Phyrexia as the perfect synthesis of both).
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Picture of Urabrask in New capenna
    Quote from Ryperior74 »

    And where did he get those Axe blade wings on his arms?
    The Planar Bridge vaporized almost all his living tissue en route to New Capenna. Maybe those have always been there, under layers of flesh.

    I think it was hinted at early on that he is some kind of compleated furnace dragon or at least modeled after them, so this might very well be.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on SNC- Streets of New Capenna Worldbuilding, lore and story
    Ok, this is starting to get quite intriguing.

    First of all I am kind of glad to see Urabrask again, he had the most interesting part in New Phyrexia. He also doesn't seem to be interested in destroying New Phyrexia per se, but wants the Quiet Furnace part of it to build on what it already has instead of spreading throughout the multiverse. And it seems his slight compassion towards the Mirrans has turned into something more too.

    I guess this is how the conflict becomes way more complicated: Simply going to New Phyrexia and detonating the cylex there would kill all Mirrans left as well as the least horrible phyrexian faction, which might not even be interested in expansion. A nice little moral dilemma perhaps (not that I think it ould be that easy anyway now that Phyrexia is spreading again).
    And yet, Urabrask might still have an ulterior motive he is not yet revealing to Vivian, he is a phyrexian after all.

    Tezzeret is once again trapped in a problematic situation of his own making involving more powerful forces than himself, though he does seem to want something specific from the Phyrexians which is not just more power and it seems that they are not basically forcing him into it like Bolas did. Whether this leads to a redemption arc? I actually don't think so, but he definitely needs more development and he seems to slowly get it.

    The families are certainly quick to take people in, but I guess that relationship can turn sour quite quickly as well. I find it kind of funny that a white planeswalker is becoming part of the Grixis colored faction and even seems to be on relative good terms with its half demon leader.

    The secret history of the plane is also quite interesting: How did the archangels and archdemons destroy the phyrexian invaders? When did that happen? Why did the contract between them cause the family leaders to forget most of the reasons for it? Where are the angels and archdemons now and what IS Halo? I even think that it is not a coincidence that it has been mentioned multiple times now that Elspeth's name seems antiquated to the people of New Capenna. The Phyrexians were still there when she first planeswalked, not even 20 or so years ago. Something is definitely not right here (and I hope it isn't sloppy continuity^^).

    Kind of wondering how Ob Nixilis fits in there as well to be honest. Interesting overall and I like the change to Vivien's character.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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