didn't see you didn't have that either, should probably go in too haha
your previous list looked very creature/agro oriented but faeries generally get outclassed in those fields, so you gotta play the tempo plan, so snaps and cryptic go a long way there.
also faeries is pretty knowledge dependent. You can have the "established" best version, but without a lot of practice and matchup knowledge small misplays will really punish you. but that will come so dont let a 0-5 get you down friend
Ive only run across Amulet Bloom once with Kightfall and although it was a victory it definitely didn't feel favoured to me. I turn 3'd him one game, he turn 2'd me the next and then game three was very long and grindy. And while i do like Dromoka's and think it should be included regardless. a good titan player won't play the Hive mind until they also have the pact in hand in which case removal of the enchantment doesn't stop the pact triggers from happening (as far as i know)
This is what im currently on (its always in a state of flux at this point) i have a list of about 40-50 cards in the Bant spectrum that im trying to get through with testing. And its a slow process to try new things without totally changing the deck. I really like it at this point, im pretty dead set right now that i want to be with the interactive midrange deck. I like the increased number of heavy hitting flyers while finks, voice and even KotR play defense at home. The SB is where most of the changes are happening but the single Vendillion clique and cryptic command are what im currently testing in the main.
Still working on the Gauntlet of teir decks with friends, so far im through GR and U tron, i can do match write-ups soon hopefully and i think ill get to test against affinity and jund this weekend. I think we can really experiment with some wild stuff in the SB most noticably hindering light and unified will i think are total bombs that catch people off gaurd. Like really who plays hindering light? But it works so well against so many things right now. And against certain decks unified will is straight up an easier to cast counterspell, the card every control deck dreams of.
im not saying that relic isn't a great card against us. any graveyard card is. but Knight of the Reliquary can pseudo play around it in a game of chicken. Instead of putting all your lands in only put in enough to make Knight like an 8/8 (or anything to put them on a 2-3 turn clock) than they have to decide, do they take the 8 or clear the graveyard. and if you've done it properly, if they pop the relic and clear the yard you can fill it up some more with the KotR. and still hit for enough damage to 2 turn them.
also Pridemage (yes a very good card) doesn't really do much to relic, relics done its damage as soon as its hit the field. if you pridemage a relic you've payed 3 mana, lost a card and they've gotten to clear your graveyard and draw for 1 mana. I get that sometimes its a necessity to unlock the GY again but pridemaging a relic is a very poor play.
So over the next little bit I should get to do some pretty decent testing. I've got a bunch of friends with different decks that ill be able to get together with periodically through the week so i should get some slow controlled testing with the ability grind game ones and post board games and switch maybe-board cards in on the fly.
The decks we should have access to in the gauntlet are GR Tron, U Tron, Affinity, Jund, Grixis Control, Grixis Delver, all 3 Twin variants, UW control, Naya Chord, boggles and merfolk. These arnt going to be in all one night, so ill try to write mini reports on the match-ups as we get through them, so it could take a week or so (or longer haha) but hopefully it ends up being helpful.
Hey All - thanks for all the reply's. I'll continue to test straight bant (no goyfs). Not wanting to buy goyf's aside - I'm drawn to the smoother mana base and definitely understand the upsides of Voice/Qasali (as a predominantly blue player so far). My next question - I'm not really a big fan of Collected Company - i'd rather not leave my 'fate' up to 'pure luck' (argue with me of you like) and additionally have the associated deck building constraints. However, CoCo for sure helps you rebuild after a board wipe and the value can be devastating to many opponents. What is the consensus (if there is one) on CoCo?
Again theres mixed feelings, it seems like its maybe a 70-30 split? Between CoCo and non-CoCo lists. I have the same sentiments in that i dislike playing CoCo and not knowing what im going to get or if im even going to get anything other than a bird. I played it a bunch with the Abzan lists when they came out and got burned by that card a bunch. but more than that i dislike the deck building restictions.
Personally i prefer being able to include more interactive cards, and in order to fight the board wipes or grind with value like you say ive been using kitchen finks and restoration angels. And at this point have had much better feelings with the deck than CoCo.
MY MAIN CONCERN is that the Zoo version with Goyf's is the best version of this deck and anything else is just a worse version thereof. Is this the consensus amongst those that have been testing since the spoiling of Coralhelm? (I refuse to buy goyfs and likely will abandon this deck if it in all honesty needs them).
There are some great looking Zoo lists, and not all run Goyf as stated by Pokken and Mantis. Others run goyf and they look good too. I mean, Goyf is Goyf, it can be a great card but its not a 4-of corner piece here like it is in Jund. I think its very replaceable but also nothing wrong with running it. I play a strictly non-Zoo Bant midrange build. I haven't done enough testing to know if its better or worse than the zoo decks, definitely less popular though. Ive only managed to take it to one FMN as my shop runs modern on mondays and this week was canadian thanksgiving. But in the one week i did run it i went 4-0 so it at least isn't terrible.
To simplify your last question, the ONLY reason people have red and the zoo version is because bolt is a great magic card and Wild Nacatyl is aggressive. And then the jury is still out on kessig and stronghold but they're there too. So why straight Bant? slightly easier mana base, and access to a little more of what blue has to offer, re: counterspells, and also these zoo lists seem to also all be CoCo lists. some people don't believe in/like its consistency and deck building restrictions so Bant offers a bit more flexibility there with anything from Ojutai to resto to hangarback.
Hope that helps! so at this point Zoo and Goyf are not known to be better than Bant, but its still very early to be saying for sure either way.
How often are you facing aggro and/or red decks? (For the purposes of this discussion, Jund, Grixis, Twin, and UWR count as red decks, but RG Tron doesn't because its only burn is Ugin.) I'm not 100% sure you can combo off from 0 to 20 against stuff like Burn/Affinity on Turns 3-4 and stay above 3 life at all times. Being unable to do that consistently with Wolf Run is why I switched to Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion in all of my more dedicated combo builds.
(As I heavily suspect that Pokken is a significantly grindier player, this is more aimed at Maty78.)
My meta is pretty evenly distributed with all the tier 1 and 2 decks with a slightly higher population of Tron (both U and GR) on any given night you can be pretty much guaranteed that there is a twin player and at least 2-3 zoo players though. If i understand the question right, its pretty much how often does comboing turn 3 put me into Bolt range?
Simply very rarely if ever. But thats more because you don't pick that line against agro/red reach decks. and heres why you don't need to.
If they're aggressive: zoo and any 3 colour deck (URW, URB, GBR, WBG) they are also aggressive with their life totals so you don't need to fill the GY with all your lands. so you can either make the knight around a 14/14 and get there not finding and cracking fetches, in which case comboing cost you minimal-to-no life. or you can even just settle for making knight a 8/8 and get there over 2 turns. I see the combo as more of a way to handle the uninteractive decks. elves, tron, infect, affinity and the like. Its so rare to have to kill somebody from 20 life. Being a creature deck theres lots of other dudes to help along the way.
And on a final note I'm actually more of a grinder as well when it comes to this deck. Ill mirror what Pokken just said in that for me, between 3 finks, 3 restos, 2 dromokas command and E witness to rebuy things, the deck gains a ton of life that if you need to switch gears, play the long game, and protect the life total it does great. I feel the deck should be favoured against any dedicated burn especially if your more not the midrange list like mine or Pokkens
2
your previous list looked very creature/agro oriented but faeries generally get outclassed in those fields, so you gotta play the tempo plan, so snaps and cryptic go a long way there.
also faeries is pretty knowledge dependent. You can have the "established" best version, but without a lot of practice and matchup knowledge small misplays will really punish you. but that will come so dont let a 0-5 get you down friend
1
1
1
2
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Tarmogoyf
3 Voice of Resurgence
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Eternal Witness
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Restoration Angel
1 Dragonlord Ojutai
Spell
4 Path to Exile
2 Dromoka's Command
3 Mana Leak
4 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Cryptic Command
1 Canopy Vista
1 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Prairie Stream
2 Breeding Pool
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Temple Garden
3 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dispel
1 Disenchant
1 Spellskite
1 Valorous Stance
2 Hindering Light
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stony Silence
2 Unified Will
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Detention Sphere
1 Obstinate Baloth
This is what im currently on (its always in a state of flux at this point) i have a list of about 40-50 cards in the Bant spectrum that im trying to get through with testing. And its a slow process to try new things without totally changing the deck. I really like it at this point, im pretty dead set right now that i want to be with the interactive midrange deck. I like the increased number of heavy hitting flyers while finks, voice and even KotR play defense at home. The SB is where most of the changes are happening but the single Vendillion clique and cryptic command are what im currently testing in the main.
Still working on the Gauntlet of teir decks with friends, so far im through GR and U tron, i can do match write-ups soon hopefully and i think ill get to test against affinity and jund this weekend. I think we can really experiment with some wild stuff in the SB most noticably hindering light and unified will i think are total bombs that catch people off gaurd. Like really who plays hindering light? But it works so well against so many things right now. And against certain decks unified will is straight up an easier to cast counterspell, the card every control deck dreams of.
1
also Pridemage (yes a very good card) doesn't really do much to relic, relics done its damage as soon as its hit the field. if you pridemage a relic you've payed 3 mana, lost a card and they've gotten to clear your graveyard and draw for 1 mana. I get that sometimes its a necessity to unlock the GY again but pridemaging a relic is a very poor play.
1
The decks we should have access to in the gauntlet are GR Tron, U Tron, Affinity, Jund, Grixis Control, Grixis Delver, all 3 Twin variants, UW control, Naya Chord, boggles and merfolk. These arnt going to be in all one night, so ill try to write mini reports on the match-ups as we get through them, so it could take a week or so (or longer haha) but hopefully it ends up being helpful.
1
Again theres mixed feelings, it seems like its maybe a 70-30 split? Between CoCo and non-CoCo lists. I have the same sentiments in that i dislike playing CoCo and not knowing what im going to get or if im even going to get anything other than a bird. I played it a bunch with the Abzan lists when they came out and got burned by that card a bunch. but more than that i dislike the deck building restictions.
Personally i prefer being able to include more interactive cards, and in order to fight the board wipes or grind with value like you say ive been using kitchen finks and restoration angels. And at this point have had much better feelings with the deck than CoCo.
1
There are some great looking Zoo lists, and not all run Goyf as stated by Pokken and Mantis. Others run goyf and they look good too. I mean, Goyf is Goyf, it can be a great card but its not a 4-of corner piece here like it is in Jund. I think its very replaceable but also nothing wrong with running it. I play a strictly non-Zoo Bant midrange build. I haven't done enough testing to know if its better or worse than the zoo decks, definitely less popular though. Ive only managed to take it to one FMN as my shop runs modern on mondays and this week was canadian thanksgiving. But in the one week i did run it i went 4-0 so it at least isn't terrible.
To simplify your last question, the ONLY reason people have red and the zoo version is because bolt is a great magic card and Wild Nacatyl is aggressive. And then the jury is still out on kessig and stronghold but they're there too. So why straight Bant? slightly easier mana base, and access to a little more of what blue has to offer, re: counterspells, and also these zoo lists seem to also all be CoCo lists. some people don't believe in/like its consistency and deck building restrictions so Bant offers a bit more flexibility there with anything from Ojutai to resto to hangarback.
Hope that helps! so at this point Zoo and Goyf are not known to be better than Bant, but its still very early to be saying for sure either way.
2
My meta is pretty evenly distributed with all the tier 1 and 2 decks with a slightly higher population of Tron (both U and GR) on any given night you can be pretty much guaranteed that there is a twin player and at least 2-3 zoo players though. If i understand the question right, its pretty much how often does comboing turn 3 put me into Bolt range?
Simply very rarely if ever. But thats more because you don't pick that line against agro/red reach decks. and heres why you don't need to.
If they're aggressive: zoo and any 3 colour deck (URW, URB, GBR, WBG) they are also aggressive with their life totals so you don't need to fill the GY with all your lands. so you can either make the knight around a 14/14 and get there not finding and cracking fetches, in which case comboing cost you minimal-to-no life. or you can even just settle for making knight a 8/8 and get there over 2 turns. I see the combo as more of a way to handle the uninteractive decks. elves, tron, infect, affinity and the like. Its so rare to have to kill somebody from 20 life. Being a creature deck theres lots of other dudes to help along the way.
And on a final note I'm actually more of a grinder as well when it comes to this deck. Ill mirror what Pokken just said in that for me, between 3 finks, 3 restos, 2 dromokas command and E witness to rebuy things, the deck gains a ton of life that if you need to switch gears, play the long game, and protect the life total it does great. I feel the deck should be favoured against any dedicated burn especially if your more not the midrange list like mine or Pokkens