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  • posted a message on Ravnica Allegiance (RNA) and War of the Spark (WAR) General Discussion
    Quote from Flisch »
    What I find odd is that Dack does not have a card despite being shown to die in the trailer. What's up with that. He could have easily taken Saheeli's slot, who doesn't really feel like a natural inclusion to me. (Then again, she does have ties to the gatewatch, so I guess it's fair.)

    http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/183853892223/will-we-see-dack-in-some-cards-even-if-we-dont

    According to Maro, Dack wasn't part of the story when they made the set, hence him not having a card. He's also said elsewhere that some planeswalkers were included / excluded based on how they chose to color-balance the 36 different planeswalkers. (For example, that could be why Daretti and Mu Yanling are absent.)

    In-universe, it's possible Bolas has some control over which planeswalkers are and aren't summoned - for example, Garruk running around and killing other planeswalkers would be antithetical to Bolas's plans to steal their sparks, so he was uninvited.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ravnica Allegiance (RNA) and War of the Spark (WAR) General Discussion
    Aside from the obvious meta-reasons and the presence of Project Lightning Bug and/or the Beacon, it's possible there is another reason why Bolas chose Ravnica for his final play: Merging the Immortal Sun with the Guildpact might be an integral part of the plan. Recall Nissa's vision from "The Hand That Moves":

    "A large golden disc, shaped and stylized like a sun, descending from the sky. The sun disc approached a large circular stone tablet covered with strange sigils, and the two discs merged, becoming a single golden disc. Cracks appeared in the golden disc, small at first, then widening, growing. The disc crumbled away into nothingness."

    As we discussed back when Ixalan came out, that certainly sounds like the Immortal Sun merging with the Guildpact. It might just be using Azor's spark within the Immortal Sun to destroy the Guildpact, but it could also involve merging their properties to allow the Elder Spell to occur.

    Also... the rest of the vision (after the symbols of the defeated Gatewatch)is interesting as well:

    "She closed her eyes against the onslaught, but still the images came tumbling through her head, crumpling her in mid-air. A falling dragon. Giants, covered in metallic blue, stomping through streets. A massive flash of light, consuming a world. An angel descending from the sky. Nissa opened her eyes, and the angel continued to descend. It was the angel from her nightmare. The angel that reminded her of Emrakul."

    I'm guessing that those visions refer to Niv's "death", the Eternals, and the Elder Spell...

    But does the vision of the Emrakul-esque angel foreshadow anything in War of the Spark, or was that just a projection of whatever force or being was speaking to Nissa back in Amonkhet?
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ravnica Allegiance (RNA) and War of the Spark (WAR) General Discussion

    I bet good money on Jaya, Old Mentor. And sure she said she wanted to help Karn with Phyrexia but two issues with that Jaya never did anything about Phyrexia in the past and Karn and Jaya were never friends before this recent trip back to Dominaria. Mostly she is old mentor though to Jaya so she is a dead women walking. I hope she gets a good card though. Yawgmoth vs The Nine Titans resulted in what half the Weatherlight Dead and 7 out of 9 of the Nine Titans gone by the time it was done.

    Half the major legends on Ravnica dead is possible some are already dead like the Ghost Council. Bolas putting down 50% of the Walkers present though yeah no. I be impressed if a dozen Walkers fell in the fight quite frankly. As for who they kill personally I like them to kill some Humans, we have too many Humans running around.


    I cynically expect three to six casualties, even though I hope I am wrong. Good call on Jaya - Dead Mentor cliche and her character lives in very similiar planeswalker card space (in terms of card mechanics)as Chandra means WotC likely sees her as expendable (sadly). Also, good call that some of the casualties will probably be Ravnica Legends and not (only) planeswalkers. (Aurelia dying so Feather can return to lead the Boros Legion in the future is a one possibility I can see.)
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ravnica Allegiance (RNA) and War of the Spark (WAR) General Discussion
    I'm assuming the major planeswalkers that are missing are AWOL because they have anchor roles in future storylines - Koth and potentially Tezzeret for a return to New Phyrexia, for example. (And if War of the Spark is Bolas's last hurrah, the Phyrexians are the next logical villains to begin building up.) Dack (and Elspeth) being missing could indicate a return to Theros in the near future. Garruk also probably has a starring role in a set in the near future, hence his absence.

    I agree that Sorin's inclusion is weird - I didn't think we'd see him again until the next return to Innistrad. I really, really hope they didn't just handwave him out of the stone wall offscreen, but I have a sinking feeling that is exactly what happened. Unless the beacon literally summons the planeswalkers, forcibly pulling them into Ravnica (which could also explain Nissa, although from a narrative standpoint I kinda hope Nissa gets involved to specifically because of Chandra).

    Also... I hate to be morbid about this, but is it too soon to start taking bets on who is going to be killed off? And I say this as a person who genuinely hates character deaths except as earned closure to a long-running arc (e.g. Urza, Yawgmoth), but I worry WotC with the love of comic-book tropes is going to kill a few planewalkers off to establish the stakes of the conflict. (If I were Kiora or any of the new planeswalkers introduced in this set, I would be looking over my shoulder. I also worry about Nissa with Vivian waiting in the wings. Despite Nissa not being well served by various writers, I still believe she has untapped potential as a character.)
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on (GRN) Guilds of Ravnica General Discussion
    Can we use this thread to discuss Ravnica Allegiance, or has that discussion entirely shifted to the Artbook spoilers thread?

    Quote from Moppi »
    Good God, if Ravnica 3 ends up with Jace still as the Living Guildpact, imma gonna Phage-slap him and/or somebody.


    My half-baked theory for this month is that Wizards originally created the "Living Guildpact" role for Jace as a way to semi-retire him in the wake of Jace, the Mind Sculptor and complaints about his over-exposure. A way to take him off the table for the time being but make him available to appear in the future.

    But then Magic: The Gathering gets optioned for a movie (coming never to a theater near you) and Creative Consultants asked Wizards who their 'Mickey Mouse' was, and they said "Jace". (MaRo has told a version of that story several times.) So they begin putting together the Gatewatch storyline with Jace at the front and center, but of course this creates a problem with Jace being "the Living Guildpact". So they decide to have Jace ignore his newfound responsibilities (whether that is out of character for him is a discussion I don't want to get into) until they could engineer a plot about him losing his status as "Living Guildpact". Nissa's visions in Amonkhet hinting that Bolas will use The Immortal Sun to destroy the Guildpact seems like it is leading in this direction.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on (GRN) Guilds of Ravnica General Discussion
    Obviously, the big question in all this is: What is Bolas's endgame? What does control over Ravnica get him that he didn't already have, in the grand scheme of things? And why did he need the Guildpact (or some other group of planeswalkers) to exist?

    Crazy theory time - Nissa's vision back in Amonkhet implied Bolas will fuse the Immortal Sun with the Guildpact. I've been assuming that Bolas could use Azor's spark in the Immortal Sun to destroy the Guildpact (also a creation of Azor's power), but, inspired by mapccu's post above... What if Bolas instead can combine the two, creating a sort of super-Guildpact that will bind every planeswalker on Ravnica to his will? That would explain everything Bolas has done since the Alara block - he wants as many planeswalkers as possible to come to Ravnica, either in his service or to oppose him, so he can bind them all.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on (GRN) Guilds of Ravnica General Discussion
    Quote from Lord_Mektar »
    Quote from Perkunas687 »
    According to today's MaRo article, two guilds in this set and three guilds in the next will be under Bolas' control/influence. Also, each of the five Bolas guilds will be led by a planeswalker loyal to Bolas.


    Yep. What I'm wondering is which three guilds in Allegiance will fall under his sway. We only really know of two 'walkers besides Ral and Vraska still under his command: Liliana and Tezzeret. Liliana is both easy and poetic. I can easily imagine Bolas going "Hey, Lili, you have some experience killing demons, yes? Be a doll and go off Rakdos for me. Then take over the guild while you're at it."

    Tezzeret is harder. We now know that Isperia is out of the picture, which makes Azorius a slightly more likely choice than Simic for the blue artificer. Especially given that he's originally from Esper, and that the Simic would likely firmly object to a technologically, as opposed to biologically, enhanced individual as their leader.

    As for the last one, it's up in the air. Kaya doesn't seem like the sort to work for Bolas. We haven't heard from Domri in ages, and the same applies to him. Though he would obviously know how the Gruul operate, were he to be swayed via mind control. My bet though is on Ramaz taking over the Gruul. He never got a card, we know he works for Bolas, and the Gruul already have shamans. Yes, he'd be yet another RG planeswalker, but oh well.

    For whatever its worth, I believe Ramaz's full identity is RGU. He would still probably be printed as an RG card, though.

    As to the Guilds, I am still operating under the theory that the Pro-Bolas and Anti-Bolas Guilds will be color-balanced. With BG and UR covered, and I agree that Azorius is now likely, my current theory is that Golgari, Izzet, Azorius, Orzhov, and Gruul will be Pro-Bolas, leaving Boros, Dimir, Selesnya, Simic, and Rakdos to be Anti-Bolas.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on (GRN) Guilds of Ravnica General Discussion

    I wonder if they color balance the sides.
    He has Golgari and Izzet.


    Let's play this out... Each color appears in four Guilds - e.g. black is present in Dimir, Golgari, Orzhov, and Rakdos. In order to color balance each faction, the Bolas faction and the Defenders of Ravnica Faction would each have five Guilds that collectively have each color represented twice.

    Baseless speculation time: The Bolas Guilds are Golgari, Orzhov, Boros, Simic, and Izzet (once Ral takes over). The Defender Guilds would then be Dimir, Azorius, Rakdos, Gruul, and Selesnya.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on (GRN) Guilds of Ravnica General Discussion
    Greg Weisman writing the novel is legitimately exciting to me - he's very good at writing multifaceted characters with layers of nuance.

    And I cannot believe I did not expect Kaya being called in to deal with the Ghost Council - in retrospect, it's such an obvious match-up.

    Edit - I don't believe Izzit is pro-Bolas yet, although Bolas clearly intends for Ral to take it over. My half-baked theory is that Aurelia is under Bolas's control (explaining why Lazav sent Krenko to free Feather) and the Boros Legion will betray the anti-Bolas alliance to Bolas. And that we will see Feather finally get a card in the unnamed third set.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Guildmasters of Ravnica D&D Campaign Setting?
    Quote from krishnath »
    Well, there goes the "we don't cross the streams in our products" argument right out the window, together with both the barrel, the baby, and the bathwater.

    Now can we finally get Illithid and Neholders in M:TG?


    I'm probably way off-base, but... what if the third name-to-be-announced Ravnica set (which we know does not focus on the 10 Guilds, and presumably features Nicol Bolas's invasion) is a full-blown D&D / MTG crossover set?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from Caranthir »
    Quote from Omnirahk »


    The scenes shifted faster now, barely even an image forming before being replaced. A fizzling torch (Gruul?). A broken clock with a clean face. A mummified head facing backward atop a mummified body. A split tree, its sap oozing into the ground (Selesnya?). A shattered shield, its shiny metallic pieces torn and scattered.


    This is IMO the defeat of the Gatewatch. Chandra doused. Jace, memory erased (clean face) and mind (clock) broken. Liliana. Nissa. Gideon.

    Good catch - I was confused about that one, but now that you pointed it out, it makes sense. I assume the mummified head and body represent Liliana's defeat?

    Should someone make a new thread just to discuss Nissa's visions from that story? I think we have enough of the larger picture to make some educated guesses now.

    Re: Ravnica - if it turns out that Aurelia's coup of the Boros Legion was due to Bolas's manipulations, and Feather returns as one of the heroes of the Return to Return to Ravnica, I will be over the moon.

    Hell, if we go all the way back to the RtR storylines, I remember a lot of discussions about conflicts between factions within the Guilds and between the Guilds and the Guildless, and stories seeming to set up that both those conflicts. (For example, I recall discussions about "In Praise of the Worldsoul" (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/uncharted-realms/praise-worldsoul-part-2-2012-10-01) and people wondering if Cecilee was set up to be killed by a rival jealous of her or something...) At the time, I assumed it was merely establishing the chaos that existed without the Guildpact being in effect and the necessity of a new Guildpact. But maybe, just maybe, all the inter- or intra-Guild civil struggles we have seen (Boros, Golgori, etc.) have been fanned by Bolas to weaken them or put his puppets into power, just in time for his invasion?
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    I know this has been brought up by others, but I don't recall seeing it mentioned in this thread yet...

    In "The Hand That Moves" from Amonkhet (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/hand-moves-2017-04-26), one of Nissa's visions is as follows:

    "A large golden disc, shaped and stylized like a sun, descending from the sky. The sun disc approached a large circular stone tablet covered with strange sigils, and the two discs merged, becoming a single golden disc. Cracks appeared in the golden disc, small at first, then widening, growing. The disc crumbled away into nothingness."

    That passage sounds suspiciously like the Immortal Sun being used to destroy the Guildpact. Which makes some sense - since the Immortal Sun contains Azor's spark, can it be used to undo Azor's other creations?
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from pierrebai »
    While the story overall is pretty nice, I do have some concerns:

    1. Bolas is the known most powerful cunning enemy... Ugin and Azor are smart powerful planeswalkers... but Ugin and Azor plot their plan in a place where a simple human can hide and hear their plotting?
    2. I kinda expected a much bigger end-game. My thoughts were that Bolaas wanted to trap each and every PW and rule the whole multi-verse alone.
    3. Were the Eldrazi the tool Ugin planned on using against Bolas? That would explain his reluctance to get rid of them. Trap bolas on a plane, let the Eldrazi lose on it.

    1. Agreed - that was a weak bit of plot contrivance, although it led to a very funny visual

    2. My guess is that an invasion of Ravnica is only the end of Phase 1. On a related note, does anyone else think that conquering Ravnica with an army of Eternals is entirely unreasonable? We don't know the size of either the Eternal army or Ravnica's population, but I can't imagine the Eternal army numbers anything more than a few tens of thousands, while Ravnica very likely has a population in the millions or even billions (depending upon the size). The Boros Legion alone could conceivably have more members than Bolas's Eternal Army.

    3. I doubt that was the endgame, but based on Azor's belief that he could regain his spark later, trapping Bolas may only have been the first step in Ugin's plan. (Or Ugin was misleading Azor...)
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Today’s article left me a little bitter as there’s a lot to Azor that I can agree with.

    TBH I’m a little tired of the anti-interventionist themes in MTG these days. Just because something is natural, cultural or endemic to a plane doesn’t mean it is good, healthy, right or desirable. It doesn’t mean that they are negative or need be replaced either but I think Azor was fine to bring civilization to other planes.

    There's probably a much larger discussion to be had about this, but just taking the two examples at hand - Azor's actions on Ravnica have certainly led to problems, but as others have already noted, a case can be made that A) on the balance, the Guildpact was still a net-positive for Ravnica, and B) Azor has been trapped for a thousand years, so if Azor had been present, those problems would not have manifested. On the other hand, as already discussed by others, Ixalan is demonstrably in worse shape as a result of Azor's actions, and Azor has been here the entire time, so he doesn't get a pass.

    To me, the thrust of the critique isn't against intervention* per se , but specifically against the behavior of the Oldwalkers, who frequently acted like gods but refused to take responsibility for the long-term consequences of their actions except when it affected them directly. (See also: Zendikar) Azor bringing civilization may or may not have a been a good thing (to me, it would vary on a case by case basis) but as presented (and I agree he was presented as a blatant Straw Man) he seemed to blame the natives on Ixalan when the consequences of his own actions yielded negative results he failed to properly anticipate.

    I’m a little tired of the themes of authority = tyranny,
    Organized religion = corruption, and other such themes. I understand Social Justice as an important philosophy to share in stories but it shouldn’t be the only animating philosophy among our heroes.

    I dunno, I guess I wish there was more nuance to MTG stories these days.

    To my mind, this is a direct consequence of adopting the tropes of both Modern Fantasy and the Superhero genre. Both genres tend to focus on (in D&D terms) Chaotic Good Heroes vs. both Chaotic Evil and Lawful Evil villains, with the Chaos vs. Law conflict being the relevant one here. And the reason is obvious - the underdog narrative of how the downtrodden Few triumph over the powerful, elitist, Many is both archetypal and popular. Superheroes may (or may not) be supported by law-enforcement, but in most stories they are still independent operators by narrative necessity because the stories being told are about how they overcome great odds, not how Batman called in a SWAT team to arrest the Joker or Spider-Man requested tactical air support from SHIELD to destroy Dr. Octopus's giant robot.

    By the way, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your point about how stale the story structure has gotten, at times. I just don't think it's an issue of promoting the idea that authority = tyranny (at least, as a direct intention) so much as emulating long-standing story-telling tropes and cliches.

    *There is a strong argument that the Superhero genre traditionally (and paradoxically) promotes a non-interventionist position because naturally following through on the implications of superheroes and super-science changes the setting to be too different from our own world, and because it places a level of responsibility in the hands of the characters that writers seldom want to be burdened with having to properly explore. (e.g. should heroes try to directly attempt to reshape society?)
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Magic Twitch stream 7 cards
    As printed, Really Epic Punch (which is an awesome mash-up of the art for Savage Punch and Epic Confrontation, for those that missed Khans and Dragons) has no duration on its pump effect. Is that an oversight, or is the punch really just that epic?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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