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  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    I've played with 6 mana dorks, 5 mana dorks, and 4 mana dorks. 6 mana dorks felt like a little too many. 4 mana dorks made me feel like I was having slower starts slightly more often. 5 feels just right. Birds also has the minor advantage of being able to pay the mana cost of some sideboard cards we play like Gutshot and Dismember. Birds also can fly, which is relevant in some games for blocking or Exalted trigger attacking.

    In the end, we want to maximize the amount of games where we can land a T2 TKS into T3 Smasher as some decks just cannot beat it. This usually starts with Dork + Temple. Even Dork into another Dork is fine as it allows T3 Smasher still.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    Agreed on the new Tamiyo not being good for us - getting all those colors consistently by T4 is very difficult with this deck. You can make it more reliable by cutting the Ghost Quarter and trimming on Caverns to bring in more painlands, fetches, and/or shocks (that's quite the trade off). I don't think it's worth it at that point. Then there's also the important question of - what is the cut for her to be in the deck? Additionally, what matchups would she improve and how do we already fare in those matchups? This deck struggles the most vs decks that go under us and uninteractive combo decks. Tamiyo will be too slow against all of those. She would only help improve some of our grindier matchups, where we already are favored in the first place.

    Due to the color requirements and not improving our worst matchups, I don't see her fitting in the deck.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    Quote from Systemfeind »
    Quote from Effort9 »
    "When talking about spoiled cards as a generality, please keep it in the designated "spoiler thread" in Modern General. SCDs for spoiled cards are NOT allowed until the whole set is released. Feel free to discuss the cards in threads for decks."

    The last sentence is confusing. Not supposed to backseat moderate anyways. I'll just let a mod clear it up.


    Yeah I actually have no idea if we are allowed to speak about it or not, but in the past there has always been talk about new spoiled cards in the respective deck threads for it.
    I hope they will reword that sentence to be less confusing because in the first sentence they say
    please keep it in the designated "spoiler thread"
    and then in the last
    Feel free to discuss the cards in threads for decks
    ???


    A mod cleared it up for me - you are correct, spoiled cards may be discussed in their individual deck's threads such as this one. The wording is still confusing. What they don't want is separate threads for each individual card spoiled before the entire set is revealed - instead when speaking about the cards in general, they should go in the Modern General spoiler thread. If the card has applications in specific decks, then we can do what we are doing now and discuss it here.

    My bad - continue discussing whatever cards you want Smile
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    "When talking about spoiled cards as a generality, please keep it in the designated "spoiler thread" in Modern General. SCDs for spoiled cards are NOT allowed until the whole set is released. Feel free to discuss the cards in threads for decks."

    The last sentence is confusing. Not supposed to backseat moderate anyways. I'll just let a mod clear it up.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    As a reminder, new cards are not allowed to be discussed in this thread. Continue on...
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    Quote from Ageless127 »
    Quote from D90Dennis14 »
    Thanks for the detailed reply, I've recently taken interest in this and trying to see if I can add something to while maintaining it's raw power.

    What I really like about Endbringer (besides a simpler manabase without Blue) is the flexibility/utility and the additional draw option which can be very good later in the game.
    What is the opinion on him as a 3-4x at the top of the curve ?

    About Batterskul and Wurmcoil Engine, with 6 mana-dorks I think that it's not entirely unreasonable to cast them 1 (sometimes 2) turn ahead of curve, isn't it ?
    They can't probably be a 4x-of but as a 1x-of they seem like solid inclusions.

    Another idea is to play 4x MD World Breakers.
    Is cutting the 2x Spellskite for 2x more Birds of Paradise
    or maybe replacing both for 4x Talisman of Unity enough of ramp support for the big eldrazi ?

    This brings me to the next question.
    Why aren't artifacts like Talisman of Unity or Mind Stone (in a more colorless-heavy build) considered for the deck over Birds of Paradise ?
    They can be found by Ancient Stirrings and harder to remove (and help produce colorless under Blood Moon).


    Then you might as well play RG Eldrazi


    Very true. And discussion of that deck here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/688629-rg-eldrazi?page=5
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    Quote from KonTheory »
    What about 2 rest in peace main, and 2 blight herders?
    add 3 more tokens that the drowner could use to tap down creatures,
    and with thoughtknot, and path to exile you are already making them exile enough usually


    You should look back into the BW Eldrazi Processor builds - discussion here:
    http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/651723-bw-eldrazi-processor?page=63

    I've played BW Eldrazi Processors a lot pre-ban and tested out newer versions post-eye-ban and there often were consistency issues with getting enough processor fuel for them. I typically cut the processing version down to 3 Strangler, 1-2 Herder, and 3 Relic to mitigate that somewhat. Again, more discussion of that at the link above.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    @D90Dennis14 : there was a deck that won a 32-man modern event a couple weeks ago by forgoing blue - Selesnya Eldrazi:
    http://www.magicfriends.net/index.php?ind=news&op=news_show_single&ide=3309

    The Drowners were cut from the traditional list for 3 Oblivion Sower and 1 World Breaker basically. The mana base also was able to fit in a 2nd Ghost Quarter and obviously a more consistent mana base. Drowner has helped close out a lot of games or just make the opponent concede, so it is tough to cut him out. He can easily shut down combat, and combined with Displacer leads to an insurmountable board state. It may be worth testing, but for basically 3 Oblivion Sower and no good ways to use all that mana, I don't think it's as good as the Bant lists today.

    Batterskull I've considered - the only issue is it cannot be accelerated out (non-Eldrazi) and is in the 5 drop slot with Reality Smasher. Maybe as a 1-of while trimming a single Drowner. Similarly, Wurmcoil fits in this situation as well - except with no way to accelerate it out it is a 6 drop. I think these cards lacking the acceleration will be too slow for the deck to come in when they should matter. They seem better as sideboard cards in this deck since we really are an aggressive midrange deck that wants to close out the game quick (and even then, bringing in a 5 drop or 6 drop for lifelink is not what we want against fast aggro decks). We don't have that many ways to delay the game against fast decks, unlike typical decks that run Batterskull and Wurmcoil in the 75 (and again, we aren't playing Tron here so we don't have the reliable acceleration to play them ahead of curve). Batterskull or Wurmcoil are in some control deck sideboards in grindier matchups which is where they excel. Our deck already is favored vs almost all control decks though, so I don't see it as a good card in a sideboard slot.

    Ratchet Bomb other than budget reasons should always be Engineered Explosives. Being able to play EE for 1 or 2 and immediately detonate that turn is extremely powerful. For instance, vs Merfolk, which is a bad matchup, we really want to hit 2 CMC creatures. Ratchet Bomb is too slow for this and requires us to play it early letting our opponent know not to play into the inevitable sweeper on 2. Otherwise say we're at T4 vs Merfolk, we can easily hit a couple lords and a random 2-drop Merfolk with EE on 2. In the main either card is too narrow - totally worthless vs a wide variety of decks (EE on 2 to kill a Snapcaster?).

    Revoker is okay, but Spellskite has wider and often more powerful applications. Revoker blindly on T2 in the main is awkward. A Spellskite on 2 in the blind is fine as your opponent has to either waste a removal spell there or allow our Eldrazi to have "Pay U/2 life, become Hexproof" basically. T2 Spellskite into T3 TKS is terrific for instance, as it often avoids the opponent killing TKS in response with its only removal spell at the time.

    Anyways, in general, I do not believe the best 60 has been found for this deck. There may also be better color combinations for a higher overall win percentage. Keep testing with what you feel would work - put some thought and planning into it, and then grind out many games against many decks with it to see if the changes were better or not.

    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    For all questions about trying a new card - what would you replace in the typical shell with it? Township I can see as a replacement of a utility land (i.e. Ghost Quarter). I rarely feel I need Township to close out my matches. I'll either have a commanding presence already, or I'll just have 1-2 Eldrazi on board where pumping it up slightly won't make much of a difference.

    The core of the deck:
    DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    LANDS (24)
    24 lands (4 Eldrazi Temple, 3-4 Cavern, 2-3 shocks, 3-4 fetches, 2-3 basics, etc)

    CREATURES (26-28)
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Eldrazi Displacer
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    4 Reality Smasher
    4 Drowner of Hope

    SPELLS (8-10)
    4 Path to Exile
    4 Ancient Stirrings



    So the core is 24 lands, 20 creatures and 8 spells (52 cards). The 8 flex slots then can be split however you like or tailored towards your meta. Typical cards in the flex slots include:

    Spellskite
    Eldrazi Skyspawner
    Matter Reshaper
    Birds of Paradise
    Eldrazi Mimic
    Stubborn Denial

    Those are some of the most commonly played cards in the flex slots. Spellskite and Reshaper are in the typical build. To better deal with Infect and Affinity, Skyspawner usually gets the nod as well. When you think of a card you want to add think about how it fits in these 8 flex slots to continue to give the deck strong matchups vs the majority of the field.

    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    I disagree with the notion that we must focus mostly on increasing our already good matchups. Our matchups vs the majority of control and midrange decks is in our favor. There aren't many cards we need to shore up the bad matchups really. Some of the really bad matchups like Scapeshift, 8 whack, and Merfolk would require changing around some like 6+ cards in the deck just for those, then it isn't worth it. It sort of is like Abzan Company against RG Tron - the general consensus is to just accept that the Tron matchup is Abyssmal and not dedicate that many cards for it. Instead just focus on the almost even matchups and interacting with hate cards that stop your gameplan.

    The #1 gameplan for this deck, and one that almost ANY deck has trouble beating is T2 TKS into T3 Smasher. Maximizing that chance will give us a higher win percentage against all matchups. The only times it can be an issue is with decks that can outrace us - that get under us, like 8 whack, Affinity, Infect, and small Zoo. There you would rather get all your removal spells, gum up the ground, and then slowly whittle your way to victory (see the article Who is the Beat Down for the theory here basically). Finding a way to more easily stabilize in those matchups without harming our other matchups I think is where this deck needs to go. And then you make the deck-building decisions based on the expected meta representation of those decks.

    Affinity and Infect are very heavily played in most metas, so Skyspawner and Spellskite to me are easy includes. Spellskite though not an aggressive card obviously, will shore up some bad matchups and allow us to protect our bigger threats (where again, we usually win through TKS and Smasher beatdowns). Skyspawner is bad against Electrolyze / Forked Bolt decks, okay vs mid-range/control decks, and great vs aggro decks for 2 bodies in 1 and the ability to block early flyers. Matter Reshaper is good vs removal heavy decks and grindy decks as well as decent vs some aggro decks as a road block, but does nothing against Affinity and Infect where it almost never can actually block. I think Spellskite, Skyspawner, and Reshaper are the flex slots in the deck that you split however you like and everything else stays as is. Then based on your maindeck you have a similar sideboard to most of the 15 you're seeing around.

    At least my opinion on the matter. I was trying Oath of Nissa for a while to help deal with flooding, but when I think of the card I cut for it, I almost always would rather have had that card there instead. So I ended up cutting Oath and going back to a more standard 60. I really want to test Finks as a great value creature to shore up our matchups vs early aggro decks so will be trying that next (see my recent write up where I post such a build).
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    Thanks for the write-up. I loved reading the game vs Living End. I really need to consider that line of discarding my fatties T1 and T2 as an option. I remember watching an older game (pre-eye ban) of Ali Aintrasi discarding Ulamog, Ceaseless Hunger T1 against Living End on the draw. That was great! You might get wrecked by Faerie Macabre exiling the cards from the grave though.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    Played in the Thursday night modern event again at my LGS with the Skyspawner and Spellskite in the main variant of the build, and also made room for 2 maindeck Stubborn Denials. Went 3-1!

    Round 1: 8 whack goblins (1-2)
    Summary - this deck is just too fast for us. Game 2 I won with a god hand of T2 TKS, T3 Smasher, T4 Timely. I've now changed my mind on the 8 whack / zoo matchups, they are not even, we are definitely unfavored.

    Round 2: Infect (2-0)
    G1: Skyspawner, Displacer, Path, and TKS kept him at bay and Drowner closed it out.
    G2: Spellskite and Skyspawner shut him down hard. Eventually ran him over with Smasher and Drowner with Displacer.

    Round 3: Mono U Tron (2-1)
    G1: I still cannot believe I won this game. He contortioned by Displacer and I flooded out hard. He had Tron plus some islands in play and I couldn't draw my Cavern for a dozen turns. He had the Spell Burst lock for a while, so I just played a land and passed for many turns until I could cast two spells or otherwise get through the Spell Burst buyback lock. He ended up nearly tapping out for Sundering Titan destroying 3 of my lands. I was able to path it on his end step though and then resolved some creatures. I eventually won after an extremely long game and Cavern of Souls letting me play out the rest of my creatures counter-free. A highlight was on his draw step, displacing my TKS 3 times to remove all relevant cards from his hand (Ugin, Platinum Angel, Mindslaver). He had a Silent Arbiter in play that was holding me back for a while.

    G2: I pathed 1 Wurmcoil, but he had Treasure Maged and then played another. I had no answer for it. He would attack for 6 lifelink, I would then swing back with Smasher for 5 damage. He was down to a low life total but I just could not get the cards I needed to shutdown the Wurmcoil and close out the game.

    G3: We were running low on time (about 6 minutes) so went as fast as we could. There were a couple turns of trying to resolve a moderate threat like Reshaper or Skyspawner, him countering it, then me casting Stirrings afterwards to grab another threat. Cavern eventually shut down his counter game. He cast a Sundering Titan destroying 2 of my lands. I had a Hierarch, Displacer, TKS, and Reality Smasher in play though. Next turn I blinked his Sundering Titan for the best turn of the game - it left the battlefield, so he had to destroy one of his islands, then re-enters and he lost another island, putting him down to just Mine, PP, Tower, Academy Ruins, then I swung for 12 bringing him down to 2. He had a Batterskull on the battlefield and tried to equip it to Sundering Titan, he didn't notice I had exactly 3 mana available including the Hierarch and bounced it again. He conceded as we were at T4 at the time and I had lethal next turn.

    Round 4 - Infect (2-1)
    G1: Skyspawner and multiple Paths shut him down, then I closed out the game with some other eldrazi.
    G2: I don't remember the details here other than he played a few cantrips early without committing anything to the board, then resolved Blighted Agent and I wasn't able to remove it. He won with Agent + Pendelhaven + Pumps (including vines)
    G3: Skyspawner, Path, Ghost Quarter, and Stubborn Denial all did work here on shutting him down. TKS and Reality Smasher closed out the game in a hurry afterwards.

    Overall... (3-1)
    Maybe it's just bad variance, but games vs Goblins, Merfolk, and Zoo are really really tough to win. Any deck that goes wide and fast is tough for this deck. Not sure what else to do there. I still am sticking with Spellskite and Skyspawner in the main due to my local meta being so Infect heavy (2nd week in a row I played two infect players in the 4 round event). Funny thing is I'm pretty sure I am undefeated in best of 3s vs Infect with this variation of the build - both online and in person. Stubborn Denial in the main never really came up as useful in any Game 1s I played today. It was good vs Infect in a G3, but I would have sided it in there anyways. I'll still keep 2 Denials in the main for now, but that might change with more testing.

    Online (Xmage) the meta is far more varied so I've been testing multiple variations. I tested Thalia for a little while and just did not like top-decking her at all. She also died to just everything possible. Wasn't really feeling like she was doing the work I wanted. I now am testing Wall of Omens which I'm unsure about, but some card draw and another flicker target has been nice in some situations. I'll continue to test the 2 drop slot more.

    For my local meta, the only changes I can see is the 2 slots where I have Stubborn Denials in the main - I could go from 2 Reshaper 2 Skyspawner to some other split of Reshaper and Skyspawner, or I could just fit in 2 Kitchen Finks or something similar to give us a better G1 vs aggro decks. The build I'm thinking of for my local meta:

    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    With lists running maindeck Spellskite and Skyspawner, Infect and Affinity aren't as bad matchups. Last weeks I played infect two rounds in a row and went 2-0, 2-0 thanks to the mix of Spellskites and Skyspawners mainly. Gut Shot also was clutch from the sideboard.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    It's very difficult to win a counter war against Scapeshift decks so I wouldn't hedge on Negates being as good as you think there. I remember playing UW Control against my friend's Scapeshift deck and pretty much the only way to win there was to resolve a flashed in Aven Mindcensor and protect it. Otherwise it's like - they cast Scapeshift with 4 mana untapped, you Negate, they Remand, you let it resolve and try again (assuming you had 4 mana untapped), they Leak it and then Scapeshift resolves and you die. Disruption plus pressure is how you win vs Scapeshift. Even if you win a counter war, you still need enough pressure behind it to close out the game before they draw into another Scapeshift. Somewhat similar to how we win vs Tron in that respect.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Bant Eldrazi
    @broodwarjc : looks solid to me. Though with 2 mainboard Stubborn Denials, I don't think you need 2 Negates in the side as well. Maybe a 2nd Spellskite, or a Gutshot, or a Fracturing Gusts to take some of those sideboard slots instead? Depends on what type of meta you expect to be facing. More Infect heavy - I would replace the Negates with another Spellskite and Gutshot. More Affinity heavy - replace the Negates with Gutshot and Fracturing Gusts. I've found Gut Shot to consistently overperform every matchup where I bring it in - T0 answers to Glistener Elf, and ways to get someone to overcommit on their X/1 while you're tapped out and then you get them (has also been very good against Melira Company hitting Viscera Seer to have an instant answer to the combo while tapped out).
    Posted in: Midrange
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