Went 2-2 last night at Modern (beat UWR and a Demigod of Revenge deck, lost to Martyr Proc and Affinity) and have been jamming a lot (of losses) online while I get this deck under my fingers again. Two cards I've been impressed with in the Shoal build I've got: singles of Curious Obsession and Chart a Course. Chart is especially good after Shoaling to protect your attacker because you just make up all the lost cards.
Also last night, Hazoret won me 2 postboard games by itself. Very impressive, and as much as I love Huntmaster, it may be better to play some split here. But I think in general having some sort of hard to deal with engine at 4cmc is pretty necessary for the Path matchups that ramp you to 4 mana.
I'm also only on 3 basics, with 2 Island and a Forest, and may have to go up to 4. In the Shoal build, I would play a third Island over Mountain. In any case, I hate running out of basics from all the Field of Ruin, Ghost Quarter, Path, and Trophy running around.
It's certainly been lots of fun. Shoal is an absolute blast and I'm finding the format congealed enough around Path / Bolt/ Push / various 1 mana threats / Burn's entire deck / etc that it feels pretty good. One card I've thought about if I ever actually see Hollow One is Echoing Truth. But in 200 matches online and probably that many in paper since moving in July, I've literally never played against it, so I'm not worried about it as much as I'm worried about Dredge. And Dredge seems more solvable for this deck than a bunch of 4/4s on turn 2.
Just bought into this deck online, after playing only Eldrazi Stompy there before. Played a few practice rounds to get used to some of the clicking of this deck, and man, this is tough. So many decision trees compared to Eldrazi.
I'm not doing super well with it so far, but chalk that up to a rough build with bad cards (Shoal, no Looting) and inexperience. The games are lots of fun, that's for sure.
Wishlist: 1/2 cmc Gruul or Simic threat, Preordain unban. It's pretty clear we're a tool or two short, but that's not stopping me from trying.
@mikepemulis
Looting with shoals are just bad, a lot of card disadvantage, and we lower blue pitch density
Oh, to be clear, I think you can't play both of those cards in the same deck. I'm going to be trying out a very heavy blue version again for a change of pace and play pattern. And with the meta once again congealed around 1 cmc spells, I'm curious to see whether Shoal is actually good again. It's such a cool card because it does what no other card in Modern does. It's probably not great, but then Spell Pierce, Mana Leak, Remand, etc, all of them have their problems too.
Fair. I haven't seen any of those locally in a few months, and in 200 ish matches online with a different deck, half of them leagues, I've never played against KCI or Hollow One.
I watched a video of Reid Duke playing a Sultai midrange list with a ton of one-ofs, the idea being that it's a good way to test out a ton of different cards.
I was off Delver for about two months, but I've played it for two weeks now, and this week, I decided to play a bunch of singles of stuff I haven't played in a long tine: Simic Charm, Remand, Delay and Deprive out of the side, etc. Went 2-1, losing to Burn, beating Humans and Junk Company. I also added two Pyromancers to give an extra threat that doesn't rely on the yard. And I'm up to 19 lands, with only one Traverse.
Lots of thoughta:
1. With the next set, we're getting both Simic and Gruul. Could be a chance for some sweet new cards, and possibly even the extra threat we need that isn't Pyromancer.
2. Anyone playing Risk Factor? Seems like this deck would be able to leverage it pretty well.
3. I keep thinking about going back to Disrupting Shoal and lots more blue cards. My latest builds of the deck have all felt too midrangey to me. And as much I love Dismember as a card, this deck is already pretty painful on the mana, and maybe we'd be better off playing some combination of Vapor Snags and Simic Charm.
4. Galaxy brain stuff: Day's Undoing is grave hate and probably card advantage, especially in a Shoal build.
Had a lot of fun trying to navigate things with a bunch of random cards last night, and I'm thinking ahead to the next set, which is probably the best bet we've had to get something good for a while. As always with Delver players in Modern, hope springs eternal.
The only way I would play Scour over Looting is if the format congealed around 1 and 2 CMC spells again, such that Disrupting Shoal became good again. I can see that happening, but it's not now in my local meta, and based on my observations playing another deck online, it isn't right there, either.
What's the most accepted colorless variant with maindeck chalice?
Something close to this. The stock list is -1 Wastes, +1 Scavenger Grounds, -1 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Smuggler's Copter, but since the rise of Assassin's Trophy and Dredge, I've gone to this and liked it. Grounds is solid but feels slow in the preboard matchups where it matters, and the replacement piece of gravehate I'm playing mainboard has more utility, plus it cycles. The sideboard numbers are fudgable, too, and I've gone up to 3x Spatial Contortion online due to Spirits and Humans. Spirits actually feels like a solid matchup now.
Went 2-3 in a competitive league last night. Weirdest matchups ever. Losses to UW Control, Green Devotion, and Mill, wins against Burn and White Prison. I think Green Devotion and Mill are just bad matchups, especially Mill, when you start out with 39 cards in the library due to Serum Powdering a few unkeepable hands.
Against the bigger players in the format, this deck feels pretty good lately. I think UW Control is way tougher than Jeskai, and Burn feels like a bye since they're not playing Bridge in the board lately. BG Rock is tougher than Jund, surely, but it feels winnable. Spirits, Tron, and Dredge all feel fine. Chalice isn't super well-positioned right now, but it absolutely wrecks some decks, and then you can board it out and put in gravehate, removal, or both. I wish we had a better sweeper than Ratchet Bomb, but the better sweeper might just be more spot removal and better sequencing.
It's hard to picture cutting either Recruiter from my cube. They're pretty irreplaceable in a singleton format. Having a second Braids or Rofellos can make the difference in those decks. Also, having a second copy of value creatures like Angel of Invention, Glen Elendra Archmage, Mulldrifter, Chupacabra, Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Siege-Gang Commander, Acidic Slime, Hornet Queen, Knight of Autumn, Solemn Simulacrum, Metalworker, Walking Ballista, Hangarback Walker . . . the utility is real.
And that's to say nothing of the Kiki-Jiki package, which makes both Recruiters absolute includes.
Then again, I have an unnatural love for all things tutor in this format.
I just went 4-1 in a competitive league. Came down to game 3 of match 5, against BW Eldrazi & Taxes. I beat Grixis Control, Dredge, and 2x Green Tron to get there. The Dredge matchup doesn't feel great, and maybe I've just been playing against bad pilots, but I've won my last few matches against them. This player in particular kept the greediest possible hands and got stuck on one land while they milled all their fetches with Shriekhorn. Felt like . . . justice.
My list is basically Jordan's stock list, except I've cut a Copter for a maindeck Relic, and I've got a second second Spyglass instead of the Surgical in the board due to Surgical being outrageously expensive online.
Any thoughts on corrosive gale or two in sideboard against spirits?
Interesting thought, although it seems super narrow, mana-intensive, and Mausoleum Wanderer makes casting it awkward and even more expensive.
I'm terrified whenever I see Spirits, as I am with most swarm decks, but I've been on a heater against it lately. I'm running 3x Spatial Contortion and 2x Gut Shot in the board, though. I moved a Relic to the maindeck and trimmed a Copter when Dredge got huge online. It's tough to make that call, but for now, I'm happy with it. 3-2 and 4-1 in my last two leagues and have managed to beat some bad matchups to get there.
Anecdotal evidence that not everything is about matchups: I beat Bant Spirits and Scapeshift and lost to Infect and Tron today. That's why we play the games.
Reddit is right: WOW **** TRON
Deck is beatable for sure but infuriating.
I still don’t understand how people 2-0 a deck like Humans. That and Spirits are my nightmare.
Mine too. Winning the first game was a definite surprise. My opponent had 3 Meddling Mages in the top 15 cards, naming Reality Smasher, TKS, and All is Dust. I had a Smasher rotting in my hand, but scried into a Dismember to hit the Mage naming Smasher, cast it, and passed. Opponent didn't like their top deck and scooped, which felt very premature to me but whatever, I'll take it. Game two I feel more comfortable with 4 Dismember, 4 Bomb, 2 Gut Shot, and 2 Spatial Contortion. Matter Reshaper also feels quite good in the matchup.
It's not a great matchup, I don't think, but too often players act like a bad matchup is 80-20, when in reality they're more likely 60-40, and you have to play the games. The flipside is true, even in this thread, with people acting like this deck's good matchups are unloseable. I think there are definitely some lopsided matchups, but they're all worth playing out, because you opponent might slip up, or you might draw well, or some combination of them. That's why we play the games.
Also last night, Hazoret won me 2 postboard games by itself. Very impressive, and as much as I love Huntmaster, it may be better to play some split here. But I think in general having some sort of hard to deal with engine at 4cmc is pretty necessary for the Path matchups that ramp you to 4 mana.
I'm also only on 3 basics, with 2 Island and a Forest, and may have to go up to 4. In the Shoal build, I would play a third Island over Mountain. In any case, I hate running out of basics from all the Field of Ruin, Ghost Quarter, Path, and Trophy running around.
It's certainly been lots of fun. Shoal is an absolute blast and I'm finding the format congealed enough around Path / Bolt/ Push / various 1 mana threats / Burn's entire deck / etc that it feels pretty good. One card I've thought about if I ever actually see Hollow One is Echoing Truth. But in 200 matches online and probably that many in paper since moving in July, I've literally never played against it, so I'm not worried about it as much as I'm worried about Dredge. And Dredge seems more solvable for this deck than a bunch of 4/4s on turn 2.
I'm not doing super well with it so far, but chalk that up to a rough build with bad cards (Shoal, no Looting) and inexperience. The games are lots of fun, that's for sure.
Wishlist: 1/2 cmc Gruul or Simic threat, Preordain unban. It's pretty clear we're a tool or two short, but that's not stopping me from trying.
Oh, to be clear, I think you can't play both of those cards in the same deck. I'm going to be trying out a very heavy blue version again for a change of pace and play pattern. And with the meta once again congealed around 1 cmc spells, I'm curious to see whether Shoal is actually good again. It's such a cool card because it does what no other card in Modern does. It's probably not great, but then Spell Pierce, Mana Leak, Remand, etc, all of them have their problems too.
I was looking at this list of most played Modern cards and it sure seems like Shoal lines up well now: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-staples/modern/full/all
Seems like Shoal and Looting are mutually exclusive, but with all the grave hate, maybe that's not the hill we want to die on right now.
I was off Delver for about two months, but I've played it for two weeks now, and this week, I decided to play a bunch of singles of stuff I haven't played in a long tine: Simic Charm, Remand, Delay and Deprive out of the side, etc. Went 2-1, losing to Burn, beating Humans and Junk Company. I also added two Pyromancers to give an extra threat that doesn't rely on the yard. And I'm up to 19 lands, with only one Traverse.
Lots of thoughta:
1. With the next set, we're getting both Simic and Gruul. Could be a chance for some sweet new cards, and possibly even the extra threat we need that isn't Pyromancer.
2. Anyone playing Risk Factor? Seems like this deck would be able to leverage it pretty well.
3. I keep thinking about going back to Disrupting Shoal and lots more blue cards. My latest builds of the deck have all felt too midrangey to me. And as much I love Dismember as a card, this deck is already pretty painful on the mana, and maybe we'd be better off playing some combination of Vapor Snags and Simic Charm.
4. Galaxy brain stuff: Day's Undoing is grave hate and probably card advantage, especially in a Shoal build.
Had a lot of fun trying to navigate things with a bunch of random cards last night, and I'm thinking ahead to the next set, which is probably the best bet we've had to get something good for a while. As always with Delver players in Modern, hope springs eternal.
Something close to this. The stock list is -1 Wastes, +1 Scavenger Grounds, -1 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Smuggler's Copter, but since the rise of Assassin's Trophy and Dredge, I've gone to this and liked it. Grounds is solid but feels slow in the preboard matchups where it matters, and the replacement piece of gravehate I'm playing mainboard has more utility, plus it cycles. The sideboard numbers are fudgable, too, and I've gone up to 3x Spatial Contortion online due to Spirits and Humans. Spirits actually feels like a solid matchup now.
3x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Gemstone Caverns
3x Ghost Quarter
2x Mutavault
1x Scavenger Grounds
3x Wastes
4x Zhalfirin Void
Creature
4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Eternal Scourge
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Reality Smasher
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Relic of Progenitus
4x Serum Powder
1x Smuggler's Copter
Instant
4x Dismember
1x Gemstone Caverns
2x Gut Shot
4x Ratchet Bomb
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
2x Spatial Contortion
1x Surgical Extraction
Went 2-3 in a competitive league last night. Weirdest matchups ever. Losses to UW Control, Green Devotion, and Mill, wins against Burn and White Prison. I think Green Devotion and Mill are just bad matchups, especially Mill, when you start out with 39 cards in the library due to Serum Powdering a few unkeepable hands.
Against the bigger players in the format, this deck feels pretty good lately. I think UW Control is way tougher than Jeskai, and Burn feels like a bye since they're not playing Bridge in the board lately. BG Rock is tougher than Jund, surely, but it feels winnable. Spirits, Tron, and Dredge all feel fine. Chalice isn't super well-positioned right now, but it absolutely wrecks some decks, and then you can board it out and put in gravehate, removal, or both. I wish we had a better sweeper than Ratchet Bomb, but the better sweeper might just be more spot removal and better sequencing.
And that's to say nothing of the Kiki-Jiki package, which makes both Recruiters absolute includes.
Then again, I have an unnatural love for all things tutor in this format.
My list is basically Jordan's stock list, except I've cut a Copter for a maindeck Relic, and I've got a second second Spyglass instead of the Surgical in the board due to Surgical being outrageously expensive online.
I'd rather have a solid control matchup than warp the manabase to beat big mana.
Interesting thought, although it seems super narrow, mana-intensive, and Mausoleum Wanderer makes casting it awkward and even more expensive.
I'm terrified whenever I see Spirits, as I am with most swarm decks, but I've been on a heater against it lately. I'm running 3x Spatial Contortion and 2x Gut Shot in the board, though. I moved a Relic to the maindeck and trimmed a Copter when Dredge got huge online. It's tough to make that call, but for now, I'm happy with it. 3-2 and 4-1 in my last two leagues and have managed to beat some bad matchups to get there.
Reddit is right: WOW **** TRON
Deck is beatable for sure but infuriating.
Mine too. Winning the first game was a definite surprise. My opponent had 3 Meddling Mages in the top 15 cards, naming Reality Smasher, TKS, and All is Dust. I had a Smasher rotting in my hand, but scried into a Dismember to hit the Mage naming Smasher, cast it, and passed. Opponent didn't like their top deck and scooped, which felt very premature to me but whatever, I'll take it. Game two I feel more comfortable with 4 Dismember, 4 Bomb, 2 Gut Shot, and 2 Spatial Contortion. Matter Reshaper also feels quite good in the matchup.
It's not a great matchup, I don't think, but too often players act like a bad matchup is 80-20, when in reality they're more likely 60-40, and you have to play the games. The flipside is true, even in this thread, with people acting like this deck's good matchups are unloseable. I think there are definitely some lopsided matchups, but they're all worth playing out, because you opponent might slip up, or you might draw well, or some combination of them. That's why we play the games.