Hi all! I'm new to this deck, but I've been having a blast piloting this on MTGO lately. I favor the Tempo approach to the deck.
My thought on Spreading Seas is that it's not worth it. It is a 2cmc enchantment, giving it no synergy with the rest of the deck, especially the prowess cards. The fact that it replaces itself is good (definitely better than Sea's Claim), but it doesn't seem good enough. Spending T2 on a card that will not get you closer to winning is too big a tempo sacrifice in my opinion.
That being said, I don't know what the most effective answer to Tron/Eldrazi would be for this deck. I guess Aquitect's Will would be a cute trick that still triggers prowess, but since it doesn't replace itself without any Merfolk I would hate to run it. My personal go-to would be Molten Rain.
Vines of Vastwood is just better for this deck. Unless you are using it for a pseudo unblockable effect, and in that case... I'm not really sure what to say. Generally trample, or aspect on an unblocked creature should be enough. Maybe elaborate, or give specific examples?
Yes, Vines are much better than Blessing. I tested Apostle's Blessing as a 1-of in addition to a playset of Vines. In many cases, it was great since it provided protection from removal, helped improve combat trades, and worked as a game ender occasionally. However, I found it to be less valuable overall than other options, like Aspect of Hydra.
@ShrimPoBoy
I don't get it. How does adding fetch and shocklands cause missed land drops. I also dont get how fetches require less than 21 lands? Can you please clear those up for me.
Shocklands don't cause the missed drops; just the fetchlands. Fetches thin the deck, since every one you draw and play equals two fewer lands in the deck. This is usually a good thing, since you start drawing fewer lands and more threats in the late-game. However, I found I was missing land 3 more frequently than I felt comfortable risking in this deck. Simply personal preference.
Additionally, regarding Apostle's Blessing, I agree it can swing games and can be worth the hit oftentimes. However, I believe it depends strongly on the metagame. I was facing a lot of burn and control, so I felt blessing proved to be either too much of a life dent, or not enough of a threat. Again, it's just personal preference though.
I tested Apostle's Blessing against a few creature based decks and it worked great. It wins games out of no where. Yall should give it a try
About the newly spoiled Honored Hierarch, I think it is way too slow. If you cast it turn one, it attacks as a 1/1 on your second turn. It attacks as 2/2 on your 3rd turn which is just too slow for modern. Comparable cards in the deck can attack for 2 damage on the 2nd turn.
I also have 2 questions. First off, how does adding GW shocklands and fetchlands make it hard to cast double or triple green mana costing cards and make the manabase inconsistent? As far as I know, Temple Garden can pay for G or W. Also, why does this deck not run Tarmogoyf? Is it because of budget reasons? The more I think about it, the more this deck feels like a budget zoo deck with pump spells instead of bolts.
I agree about Apostle's Blessing; it works wonderfully, but I ended up cutting them because I couldn't handle both Blessing and Dismember. Too much life loss.
I also agree that Honored Hierarch won't work. Plus we hardly ever need acceleration, so its secondary ability is irrelevant.
Shocks and Fetches are iffy for a couple reasons. One is that this deck's pain-free mana base gives an advantage in longevity. Second, shocklands have anti-synergy with Dungrove Elder builds. Actually, I don't use Elder, so I tried Fetchlands to thin the deck a bit. It didn't work out, as I started missing my 3rd land drop too frequently, missing out on my Leatherback Baloths. Fetches require either >21 lands or a very low curve, IMO.
Tarmogoyf is not run because the lack of Fetches, lack of early game instants/sorceries, and (IMO most importantly) the existence of Dryad Militant.
@user_369654: That was incredibly helpful. These matchup statistics are good information to keep in mind.
It's hard sometimes to be objective about our pet decks, but keeping our limitations in mind is important.
Your Bloom match estimation is interesting to me; I have found it to be more 60/40 online. However, that's only from about a dozen matches.
@Snelwan: I have found the Titan Bloom matchup to be favorable for Stompy, since we are generally more consistent and aggressive, forcing them to play defensively. We also have an array of combat tricks up our sleeve to bring a titan down. Still, against an early titan, games can get very close.
Hey, could anybody do a runthrough of their sideboard choices? I have been running a variant of Stompy online with good success, but post-SB my win rate is dramatically lower. I have found that my matchup with Zoo is especially horrible, since our fight-based removal is susceptible to an opponent's Bolt or PtE.
How do you guys deal with midrange strategies? How do you decide whether to run Feed the Clan or Kitchen Finks for lifegain? Really any information on 'board choices and strategies in the current Modern environment would be greatly appreciated.
what's better: arashi or hurricane? I like hurricane since it can be used as a fireball to finish your opponant.
Are either arashi or hurricane necessary? I have found Avatar of the Resolute to be more than enough to dissuade flying attackers, especially when backed up with Vines of Vastwood and Aspect of Hydra. If your meta demands either though, I would go for Hurricane or Windstorm, since Arashi is above the curve.
Hi guys, magic online player here. I have been tinkering with this, and I'd like to share my experiences and get some feedback if possible. Fair warning: I am a cheapskate. It has taken me years to build up the tickets to get the lands in this deck, and I don't see me paying for Dark Confidant, Liliana of the Veil, or even The Rack. I know my build will never be better than Tier 3, but budget players deserve to have fun too, eh?
I chose the aggressive Young Pyromancer route since I don't have any copies of The Rack. It's been phenomenal with the discard shell, and opponents are hesitant to board in pyroclasms against just one threat.
Raven's Crime has proven to be very important in control matchups. If an opponent has enough card draw to offset our discard spells, we are quickly outmached, and this little guy turns every late game land into a useful draw. It's no Liliana, but it'll do.
Rift Bolt is stupid, but it has saved me in too many game 1's for me to remove them. Sometimes the 3 extra damage helps end the game, sometimes it threatens an important creature...I am up for suggestions for better options though.
Stupor is even more stupid, but before adding it, i was consistently running out of gas while the opponent still had 1 or 2 cards in hand. Very bad for Shrieking affliction. Overall, it's not the best but I have never been wholly unhappy to draw it.
2 Rix Maadi is a frustrating (due to color screw) but necessary measure due to the lack of Lilianas. There are a LOT of counterspells going around the Tournament Practice room online, and a bit of extra pressure seems important to drain them.
Sideboard: I completely ignored scapeshift and tron when making the sideboard, because I have no idea how to deal with those decks without Blood Moon. Scapeshift especially...I have to roll over because I can't win before they topdeck scapeshift with enough lands for the kill. My dubious plan is to use my Extirpates. My intuition tells me that Extirpate is a terrible card...but I am always thrilled to draw it. It's removed Cryptic commands, Splinter Twins, 'Tron components...always uncounterable and instant speed. Delirium skeins is basically a placeholder...I never side them in.
Overall, I win nearly half my matches against Tier 1 decks, but I feel the deck isn't close to being optimized yet (even for the budget build) Does anybody have any suggestions, especially on the sideboard choises/strategy?
Also, I tried out Monastery Swiftspear in my initial versions of the deck. It never works very well, as it doesn't offer enough utility in this shell. It only rarely got bigger than 2/3 and because of the low creature count in the deck, there was always a removal spell with ol' Swiftspear's name on it.
My thought on Spreading Seas is that it's not worth it. It is a 2cmc enchantment, giving it no synergy with the rest of the deck, especially the prowess cards. The fact that it replaces itself is good (definitely better than Sea's Claim), but it doesn't seem good enough. Spending T2 on a card that will not get you closer to winning is too big a tempo sacrifice in my opinion.
That being said, I don't know what the most effective answer to Tron/Eldrazi would be for this deck. I guess Aquitect's Will would be a cute trick that still triggers prowess, but since it doesn't replace itself without any Merfolk I would hate to run it. My personal go-to would be Molten Rain.
Yes, Vines are much better than Blessing. I tested Apostle's Blessing as a 1-of in addition to a playset of Vines. In many cases, it was great since it provided protection from removal, helped improve combat trades, and worked as a game ender occasionally. However, I found it to be less valuable overall than other options, like Aspect of Hydra.
Shocklands don't cause the missed drops; just the fetchlands. Fetches thin the deck, since every one you draw and play equals two fewer lands in the deck. This is usually a good thing, since you start drawing fewer lands and more threats in the late-game. However, I found I was missing land 3 more frequently than I felt comfortable risking in this deck. Simply personal preference.
Additionally, regarding Apostle's Blessing, I agree it can swing games and can be worth the hit oftentimes. However, I believe it depends strongly on the metagame. I was facing a lot of burn and control, so I felt blessing proved to be either too much of a life dent, or not enough of a threat. Again, it's just personal preference though.
I agree about Apostle's Blessing; it works wonderfully, but I ended up cutting them because I couldn't handle both Blessing and Dismember. Too much life loss.
I also agree that Honored Hierarch won't work. Plus we hardly ever need acceleration, so its secondary ability is irrelevant.
Shocks and Fetches are iffy for a couple reasons. One is that this deck's pain-free mana base gives an advantage in longevity. Second, shocklands have anti-synergy with Dungrove Elder builds. Actually, I don't use Elder, so I tried Fetchlands to thin the deck a bit. It didn't work out, as I started missing my 3rd land drop too frequently, missing out on my Leatherback Baloths. Fetches require either >21 lands or a very low curve, IMO.
Tarmogoyf is not run because the lack of Fetches, lack of early game instants/sorceries, and (IMO most importantly) the existence of Dryad Militant.
It's hard sometimes to be objective about our pet decks, but keeping our limitations in mind is important.
Your Bloom match estimation is interesting to me; I have found it to be more 60/40 online. However, that's only from about a dozen matches.
How do you guys deal with midrange strategies? How do you decide whether to run Feed the Clan or Kitchen Finks for lifegain? Really any information on 'board choices and strategies in the current Modern environment would be greatly appreciated.
On another note:
Are either arashi or hurricane necessary? I have found Avatar of the Resolute to be more than enough to dissuade flying attackers, especially when backed up with Vines of Vastwood and Aspect of Hydra. If your meta demands either though, I would go for Hurricane or Windstorm, since Arashi is above the curve.
First, the build:
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Gurmag Angler
Spells
2 Raven's Crime
4 Shrieking Affliction
1 Stupor
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Rift Bolt
4 Wrench Mind
4 Thoughtseize
4 Blightning
4 Terminate
2 Murderous Cut
4 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Arid Mesa
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Pyroclasm
2 Rakdos Charm
3 Duress
4 Extirpate
2 Delirium Skeins
I chose the aggressive Young Pyromancer route since I don't have any copies of The Rack. It's been phenomenal with the discard shell, and opponents are hesitant to board in pyroclasms against just one threat.
Raven's Crime has proven to be very important in control matchups. If an opponent has enough card draw to offset our discard spells, we are quickly outmached, and this little guy turns every late game land into a useful draw. It's no Liliana, but it'll do.
Rift Bolt is stupid, but it has saved me in too many game 1's for me to remove them. Sometimes the 3 extra damage helps end the game, sometimes it threatens an important creature...I am up for suggestions for better options though.
Stupor is even more stupid, but before adding it, i was consistently running out of gas while the opponent still had 1 or 2 cards in hand. Very bad for Shrieking affliction. Overall, it's not the best but I have never been wholly unhappy to draw it.
2 Rix Maadi is a frustrating (due to color screw) but necessary measure due to the lack of Lilianas. There are a LOT of counterspells going around the Tournament Practice room online, and a bit of extra pressure seems important to drain them.
Sideboard: I completely ignored scapeshift and tron when making the sideboard, because I have no idea how to deal with those decks without Blood Moon. Scapeshift especially...I have to roll over because I can't win before they topdeck scapeshift with enough lands for the kill. My dubious plan is to use my Extirpates. My intuition tells me that Extirpate is a terrible card...but I am always thrilled to draw it. It's removed Cryptic commands, Splinter Twins, 'Tron components...always uncounterable and instant speed. Delirium skeins is basically a placeholder...I never side them in.
Overall, I win nearly half my matches against Tier 1 decks, but I feel the deck isn't close to being optimized yet (even for the budget build) Does anybody have any suggestions, especially on the sideboard choises/strategy?
Also, I tried out Monastery Swiftspear in my initial versions of the deck. It never works very well, as it doesn't offer enough utility in this shell. It only rarely got bigger than 2/3 and because of the low creature count in the deck, there was always a removal spell with ol' Swiftspear's name on it.