Ok, someone talk me out of another one of my weird ideas...
First off, back story. Pro Tour FRF, and Atarka Red was a thing. Control decks were geared for Abzan and other midrange match ups (RG Dragons, etc), but the list that finished in 3/4th place ran Radiant Fountains. They worked great with the life gain pre board, bit combo'd well with Pearl Lake Ancient out of the board allowing the Fountains to be returned to hand and replayed.
Fast forward to the present. We again have insanely fast red decks doing their thing, and control not keeping up. If only we had a way to gain life... Enter Crypt of the Eternals. Now, I know at first glance it's just a taxation effect, making all (Grixis based) spells cost one more. However, what if we largely ignore that part of the card, and just use it as a mini Radiant Fountain? Basically run it as "When ~ ETB, gain 1 life. T: Add <> to your mana pool." Anything else is just a bonus. Talking of bonuses, it also combo's with Kefnet's draw ability - we return Crypt to hand, give ourselves a blocker that can take out pretty much anything Ramunap Red throws at us, and then replay Crypt next turn...
Thoughts or counter arguments?
With the concern being fast decks, possibly making your color requirements harder early sounds like a possible death sentence. For Grixis, I think you want the usual cheap red burn, and Gifted Aetherborn and/or Essence Extraction.
I wish I could play Will and Pull. I'll cut Baral and maybe a Kalitas. Just unsure what draw I could add. Any suggestions (No Hour or Amonkhet access)?
Also debating Sultai, gives me Pulse and Catacomb Sifter (which I have as a good meta read atm, esp vs red).
Forgot Supreme Will. GREAT card, but may be hard to get. For secondary draw, try Hieroglyphic Illumination. It's Ahmonket, but it's a dime common. The cycling early is very good, and it's really synergistic with Gearhulk.
True. How would you make room? Cut a Kingpin/Baral? (Fumigate) and maybe cut others for Authority?
What about Legacy? Just for the brews and possible ramp decks.
I have no access to Cast Out, but have 2 Unmaking in there (1 mb, 1 sb).
Sorry, I missed the Unmakings. Not really a fan of Baral, especially with Abrade and Censor popular, I don't know what he accomplishes right now. I never tried Kinpin, but that could probably be shaved down. Sounds good againt RDW, but bad agaiunst BG and Zombies.
Also, if you don't know your meta, or there is a bunch of Red/Zombies/Vehicles, I think you want to lower your curve. This deck looks a bit top heavy, which is better against midrange/ramp/other control.
Which would have a better chance? Looking at 1 fumigate and 2 legacy into the board on this too, but unsure where.
I think at least 1 Fumigate is good to have. Also, some number of Anguished Unmaking or Cast Out. I am trying Authority Of The Consuls SB this weekend in case of red decks. It's good against aggro in general, though. Makes Ishkanah much less exciting. Also, makes recurring Zombies less painful, and slows Vehicle crewing.
This is what I'm planning to take to games day. Unfortunately due to shipping issues the only Amonkhet or Hour card I have access to is 1 Kefnet. The meta is completely unknown, but I am expecting a lot of brews and maybe 1 RDW.
I have 3 spots in the main. I am debating take inventory, but only have 3 spots and it seems pointless to run 3. Are there any suggestions?
I'd steer clear of Take inventory. Sorcery speed, high variance on how good it is per game, and that desert that exiles graveyards is seeing a fair amount of play, and is already good against you, being a Gearhulk deck. If you want more draw, Hieroglyphic Illumination and Pull From Tomorrow are your best bets. Try The Scarab God if you can get one. It's been really good for me lately.
So how are people working this format out after the pt? Control still viable at a high level? All the UR decks that I saw got smashed on camera.
I'm assuming R aggro or BG will be the 2 main decks. Queller and/or Authority for the Esper lists? Tendrils mb?
I think UR is on the way out. They have too hard a time recovering from early strikes, and resolved non-creature permanents. I'm testing Filigree Familiar in SB to beat the heavy aggro decks. Basically speed bumps that can be recurred with Liliana, The Last Hope and The Scarab God. BTW, The Scarab God is REALLY good for mid to late game vs. aggro and midrange. The exile effects are almost nonexistent currently.
I just read that article from mr.Rasmussen, and honestly? It's one of the biggest piles of bull***** I have ever read. It just doesn't make sense on so many levels.
First of all, they say they have data that ''promos weren't affecting FNM attendance in years''. Well, the promos have been ***** for years too. The last year with consistently good promos was 2013. I wonder about the data for the months when path and serum visions were promos. But of course, they can't show us that for some reason. So we just have to blindly trust their data.
Then he says that they want FNM to be a casual event. And standard showdowns to be the competitive ones. But didn't he just say that promos don't matter when getting people to FNM? So the same people will still be coming to FNM...and casual people still won't be able to play their cat decks... Unless he means that competitive players will stop going to FNM's because they won't get foil Fatal Pushes anymore, but then that would contradict his statement that promos don't affect attendance. Not to mention that FNM is the event where you can play modern or draft. Formats usually played by more experienced players where people who like kitchen table cat decks won't stand a chance anyway.
After reading this update, it seems to me this is another attempt to try and get people into playing standard after the *****show it has been the past year. Cut the cool rewards from FNM where people can play anything and try to get them to play standard showdowns. Like OMG they even say in the annoucement article that players want more cool lands and that they will be adding foil Guay lands to get people more excited for standard showdowns! Why not do that for FNM? Why can't I get a Guay land for playing FNM? Why do I get a token? Oh I know, because at FNM I play modern and draft instead of standard.
TLDR: Wizards is full of ***** and is asking us to trust them based on data they refuse to publish. In reality they just want to get modern and limited players to play standard instead.
Alternatively they are just dumb. Which wouldn't surprise me with all the things they did in the recent years.
Check and mate. I am not a big social media person, but this needs to go somewhere where these people can see these and be pressured to respond, and explain the circular logic (no pun intended) being given here.
WOTC seems to want to blame everyone but themselves for Standard's (and by extension, profit) decline
The format has been terrible lately. No explanation needed.
OP changes they've made have been net-negative for players almost universally.
Sets have not been hot and percentages of playable/valuable cards has been low, partially by design (Invocations).
They want to "pass the savings cost" onto us for THEIR f^%kups. Ridiculous.
EDIT: BTW, if you want FNM to be casual(ish) again, bring back ELO ratings. The "Spike" players they don't want there wouldn't dare losing a bye from a rating drop from losing to a random. Planeswalker Points are stupid as hell anyway. Not like you get anything for them, really...
Hour of Glory - seems to be good for the indestructible creatures (including Ulamog). Is it too expensive at 4? Could/should it be replaced with the edict effect from Doomfall?
Torment of Hailfire - I just want to play a deck that ramps up the mana (Tezzeret, anyone?) and then drops a huge Hailfire down for the laughs.
Riddleform is perhaps one of the cards that is most intriguing to me. It dodges sorcery speed creature removal in most cases, provides us with a clock, but also provides a mana sink as well. I used to play a pair of Hedron Alignment a while back, solely for the scry ability. It's surprisingly useful to be able to run through your deck and set up your next draw, particularly when combined with cheap draw spells like Anticipate.
Supreme Will looks to be a must-buy card. Running these plus hard counters plus all the draw spells just gives so much flexibility. It also means that we could potentially stop running Anticipate, freeing up space for other spells...
Tragic Lesson is one that I'm not sure about. I think this should be included with Crypt of the Eternals just for the extra life gain (similar to how Pearl Lake Ancient was good at bouncing Radiant Fountain), so very much a niche card.
Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign - a two-of, maybe? The mini-Fact or Fiction is nice, plus you have the case where you play the second one and get two triggers. Coupled with Sphinx of the Final Word, you may actually get a few triggers off this.
I think the only sure shot is Supreme Will. The rest all look interesting, but I don't know if they truly belong in control. Bontu's Last Reckoning looks good, but the self Time Walk may be too dangerous. I also like Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh, but Liliana's Defeat makes me leery of playing an 7-mana PW that is answered by a 1 mana card.
I am a fan of Torment Of Hailfire in general, but this seems much more a card for midrange or ramp.
Really not sure if you're trolling or just really unfamiliar with the deck's interactions in Standard.
There are only a handful of ways to deal with Marvel outside of counterspells, and if the Marvel player knows the opponent is packing counters, he or she will wait a few turns when Marvel can be cast with Negate or Dispel mana open.
If you're not playing blue, then what? Manglehorn is in green, but it dies to a slight breeze, and its ETB often doesn't stop a Marvel activation. Disallow and Dispossess are okay enough in Black, but they are bad to mainboard for obvious reasons so they never help in game 1, and you may never even draw them after boarding them in. Plus, they do nothing to stop a Marvel already on the field.
Sure, a Transgress the Mind can act like a more proactive counterspell to remove a Marvel before it hits the field, but you're kind of hosed if they have another in hand, and that kind of hand disruption can lead to such a loss of tempo that you may fall too far behind to come back if your opponent stays on curve the rest of the game.
Any other ways of destroying Marvel once it's already out are almost worthless because its rare that a Marvel hits the field that isn't ready to be activated immediately.
The various Marvel decks needed to go. They are low-skill, high-variance decks that rewarded players for having just the right cards on the top of their library. Once a deck forces every other deck in the format to have very specific answers to it in order to be competitive -- answers that generally wouldn't otherwise be played in Constructed formats -- you know it's a problem. Manglehorn, for example, will now leave 99% of Standard sideboard. Because it's not a great card in a meta without Marvel dominance.
I agree 100% on everything except Manglehorn. I think it becomes the premier Vehicles hate card. Blows up a Vehicle, leaves a body.
It doesn't, but those cards simply aren't a problem without Marvel, and wouldn't be a problem if there were reasonable answers to card like Marvel or it wasn't so pushed. Better counter magic, specifically something like mana leak at 2cmc, and reasonable discard, specifically duress, or reasonable answers like pithing needle, keep marvel from being broken. Those are cards that should be staple answers that are safety valves for the format. Ulamog rots in the hand without Marvel, unless you run hardcore ramp which makes for a far more linear deck that can't be ran alongside marvel. Even Emrakul isn't that terrible without being marveled out, you actually have to play out a delirium gameplan, and with any sort of reasonable grave hate, which should always be available, that's not particularly easy.
The only reason that ANY of these cards were overpowered in the format is because wizards intentionally made it so by removing the sort of cards that serve as safety valves. Emrakul, Marvel, and Copter were all pushed to show off their mechanics, with Em also being a story card, and wizards explicitly removed the cards that can answer those mechanics to let them shine. This problem was entirely self inflicted.
At the most obvious level (call it level 0), this ban hoses people who play and own Marvel and all cards in the deck like Ulamog.
At level 1, the meta changes significantly. People who want to change their decks have an opportunity, people who wanted to coast will pay in their record if they don't change or pay in time if they feel compelled to adapt. For the more avid players, there is a real positive value to the meta changing.
In addition, this banning is well aimed, in my opinion. I built Marvel and won a Game Day with it, but didn't really enjoy playing it. I then turned to playing decks that could beat Marvel. Given that I don't enjoy playing counterspells, I observed and analyzed that my best strategy was to be aggressive, as allowing Marvel too many spins seemed foolish. Now all manner of midrange nonsense seems viable and I ike that. So I think this banning will create a more varied meta, with more midrange, control and even some real ramp.
At level 2, regular bannings seems lethal to hobbyist standard. For those who have the resources or pros who get paid, the cost may not be significant. But without Masterpieces, we are looking at the bulk of set value being in a few chase mythics. Think $40+ Jace, Gideon, Avacyn, Liliana, Chandra, etc. If the choice is between losing and paying exorbitant prices for a few cards, that is bad enough. When paying exorbitant prices to win leads to a significant loss of resources due to a banning, it seems much worse. For hobbyists with limited resources, this looks like a lose-lose situation. Without these players, local standard events and the incentive to buy new sets will diminish. Can the game grow and thrive without a stream of newer players entering through standard?
I think that bannings need to stop.
But how? For Wizards, learn from each of these bannings to design and test better.
There is something that Wizards could do to symbolically soften the blow of the next banning before the next banning. I have been mulling over the notion of compensation. The unfairness of having the value of our decks suddenly being ripped away is horrible. However, the logistical difficulties seem insurmountable.
Paying people based on the secondary market value seems difficult, expensive and unfair.
Redeeming cards seems awkward, as people may still want to still play with the cards in other formats and interacting with all the people who have the banned cards is expensive and logistically challenging.
Schemes that tie through LGSes could be prone to corruption and abuse.
So what can be done? Product is sort of free to Wizards. We all have DCI numbers. Every DCI number that plays in a given format is known. Wizards could mail a certificate for product (credit for packs or an event redeemable at a LGS or online retailer) for everybody who plays in a given format whenever it bans a standard card. This would at least reward the people who played the format, even though it wouldn't target the specific people who were injured and not relate to the extent of the injury. I think Wizards showing some concern for the standard player and recognizing the injury would be helpful.
Without a doubt, without even the shadow of a doubt. Mana Leak is the perfect power level for standard and should be a staple, or rotated with similarly powered counters at 2cmc. Asking to wait to 3 mana to be able to have an answer for must answer threats is absurd. For counters to be viable you must be able to leave mana open for them, which means you give up your earliest turns and spend the mid game casting smaller spells. Needing to hold 3 vs 2 is major, and slows down control too much so that aggro can finish it off too reliably, which makes permission too weak to police the format. This drives control decks to seek out proactive solutions, which means planeswalkers as plan A, and they become basically slower midrange decks rather than the sort of control decks capable of policing combo. Or they become light control shells running combo, like some Marvel decks.
The last time mana leak was legal, it was fine. People will cry about it, but they forget the reason UW was a boogyman was that it had accessed to hyper pushed creatures and planeswalkers. Caw blade was Jace and stone forge and swords. Geist had Geist being OP, and these were formats with better 1 mana blue cantrips than modern. Mana Leak is fine as long as it's not backing up obviously broken creatures or playing with both ponder and preordain, or both things at the same time. Those spells together would be a broken deck even with today's meager counter suite.
It's damn powerful, but there are decks that can severely punish you if you can't assemble that combo, so it's some sort of all-in and I accept it. Furthermore, sometimes even if you manage to hit it, it won't solve your situation in the game; Toolcraft Exemplar into Heart of Kiran is one of the better examples obviously. But even leaving that out that, weren't Gray Merchant of Asphodel on turn 5 or Master of Waves on turn 4 backbreaking when they hit the battlefield? Wasn't Angel of Serenity or Thragtusk on turn 3 thanks to Unburial Rites backbreaking? Sure, but you can still either interact with them.
You can always interact with a Marvel activation if it doesn't bring an over-the-top cast trigger: you can counter the spell on the stack, destroy the permanent it casts etc.. Let's say Nicol Bolas enters the battlefield when the opponent has four cards in hand (reasonable on turn 4, even a bit lower than usual): what do you do?
a) Mind Rot: nice, but the opponent will always keep what can deal with the planeswalker, and if he doesn't have anything he loses. But that's exactly what happens all the time with powerful Planeswalkers on turn 3-4, doesn't it?
b) -4 to deal with a pesky threat on the board? Nicol Bolas could die on the crack back (after all, Glorybringer exists...) as any PW with a low loyalty.
I don't see any mad scenario; at least, not enough to ban the card right now if that was the consideration. That's why I would have at least try to ban the combo with Ulamog for now.
I don't know how else to put it, but I'm old and have been playing for 20 years, EVERY mana cheating engine is a problem. It restricts design space also, so that's another problem. Also, banning the "target" instead of the broken engine also never works. The game has always been like this. Marvel was extra stupid because it used a new, unstoppable resource, so you can use the main two (mana and life) to set it up. Just like Saheeli/Cat, Standard games ending on turn 4 off two cards is not what the format is meant to do. Marvel should have never seen print, and this banning is overdue. None of the Eldrazi should be banned. They're high resource, high-payoff cards, which only break things when powered out much earlier than designed.
Printing cards vs cards has never had a positive ending. It would have been useful, sure, but it wouldn't have solved any problem; if it were like that, why banning Splinter Twin when so many 1-on-1 answers to it have been printed since its appearance?
I'm a bit sad for this decision, because I would have preferred a ban for the combo Marvel + Ulamog, which the article explicitely says they considered in the process. Marvel is a fun card if nothing breaks it, so I highly doubt it will be broken after BFZ rotates out. Why not just leave it in Standard and avoid toxic combos? A Nicol Bolas, God Pharaoh on turn 4 isn't unreasonable after all. Not more than Gideon, Ally of Zendikar at least...
Not sure if serious. You think Nicol Bolas dealing you 7, exiling two cards out of your hand (going up in loyalty), or playing a free card from YOUR deck (ALSO going up in loyalty) on turn 4 is fair? Really?
With the concern being fast decks, possibly making your color requirements harder early sounds like a possible death sentence. For Grixis, I think you want the usual cheap red burn, and Gifted Aetherborn and/or Essence Extraction.
Forgot Supreme Will. GREAT card, but may be hard to get. For secondary draw, try Hieroglyphic Illumination. It's Ahmonket, but it's a dime common. The cycling early is very good, and it's really synergistic with Gearhulk.
Sorry, I missed the Unmakings. Not really a fan of Baral, especially with Abrade and Censor popular, I don't know what he accomplishes right now. I never tried Kinpin, but that could probably be shaved down. Sounds good againt RDW, but bad agaiunst BG and Zombies.
Also, if you don't know your meta, or there is a bunch of Red/Zombies/Vehicles, I think you want to lower your curve. This deck looks a bit top heavy, which is better against midrange/ramp/other control.
I think at least 1 Fumigate is good to have. Also, some number of Anguished Unmaking or Cast Out. I am trying Authority Of The Consuls SB this weekend in case of red decks. It's good against aggro in general, though. Makes Ishkanah much less exciting. Also, makes recurring Zombies less painful, and slows Vehicle crewing.
I'd steer clear of Take inventory. Sorcery speed, high variance on how good it is per game, and that desert that exiles graveyards is seeing a fair amount of play, and is already good against you, being a Gearhulk deck. If you want more draw, Hieroglyphic Illumination and Pull From Tomorrow are your best bets. Try The Scarab God if you can get one. It's been really good for me lately.
I think UR is on the way out. They have too hard a time recovering from early strikes, and resolved non-creature permanents. I'm testing Filigree Familiar in SB to beat the heavy aggro decks. Basically speed bumps that can be recurred with Liliana, The Last Hope and The Scarab God. BTW, The Scarab God is REALLY good for mid to late game vs. aggro and midrange. The exile effects are almost nonexistent currently.
Check and mate. I am not a big social media person, but this needs to go somewhere where these people can see these and be pressured to respond, and explain the circular logic (no pun intended) being given here.
WOTC seems to want to blame everyone but themselves for Standard's (and by extension, profit) decline
They want to "pass the
savingscost" onto us for THEIR f^%kups. Ridiculous.EDIT: BTW, if you want FNM to be casual(ish) again, bring back ELO ratings. The "Spike" players they don't want there wouldn't dare losing a bye from a rating drop from losing to a random. Planeswalker Points are stupid as hell anyway. Not like you get anything for them, really...
I think the only sure shot is Supreme Will. The rest all look interesting, but I don't know if they truly belong in control. Bontu's Last Reckoning looks good, but the self Time Walk may be too dangerous. I also like Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh, but Liliana's Defeat makes me leery of playing an 7-mana PW that is answered by a 1 mana card.
I am a fan of Torment Of Hailfire in general, but this seems much more a card for midrange or ramp.
True. Like i said, it looks good. I think it will see play. Basically dies to anything that does 4, so it will probably never be an All-Star.
I agree 100% on everything except Manglehorn. I think it becomes the premier Vehicles hate card. Blows up a Vehicle, leaves a body.
THIS
THIS
WHOLEHEARTEDLY THIS
AND THIS
I don't know how else to put it, but I'm old and have been playing for 20 years, EVERY mana cheating engine is a problem. It restricts design space also, so that's another problem. Also, banning the "target" instead of the broken engine also never works. The game has always been like this. Marvel was extra stupid because it used a new, unstoppable resource, so you can use the main two (mana and life) to set it up. Just like Saheeli/Cat, Standard games ending on turn 4 off two cards is not what the format is meant to do. Marvel should have never seen print, and this banning is overdue. None of the Eldrazi should be banned. They're high resource, high-payoff cards, which only break things when powered out much earlier than designed.
Not sure if serious. You think Nicol Bolas dealing you 7, exiling two cards out of your hand (going up in loyalty), or playing a free card from YOUR deck (ALSO going up in loyalty) on turn 4 is fair? Really?