Our FNM numbers haven't dwindled much, but this is probably only due to the mid to high EV the store provides. The promos were only bonus. The difference now is people drop quickly because they don't care if they win a random promo at the end. Total, complete, apathy. If the playmat wasn't sick, the Store Championship would be looking the same way.
Hi Zhaf. Glad you're having some success (although I lost to tokens this weekend as well). I'd suggest that you look here and learn to put your deck in tags. It makes it look a lot nicer!
As for the deck, I don't think you need two Bontu's in the main, but if it's working for you, great. The main looks good, but I think that River's Rebuke is good against tokens. I do also like the idea of Archfiend though. However, that's only dependent on you discarding or cycling...
How has 25 lands fared for you? Seems too low with Gearhulks and Bolas on top end - considering you don't have Opt for mana fixing? Also, running 3 colors and having 2 Field of Ruin - did you ever find yourself mana screwed due to colors not available? I wanna try this list but adding one more land and probably dropping the suns for a singleton Hour of Devastation.
I'm on UB with a white splash with 2 Field running 26. It's not bad at all.
I initially began with UBx cores, and tbh the black should really focus on white spells. White has way more efficient removal spells overall and really the only thing I found myself using black for was Fatal Push, Vraska's Contempt, and Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh. The black cards really are splash-able and while I feel they are necessary, the real value is in the white cards when paired with blue. The deck functions better slanting towards UWb over UBw imo.
The post cards for the various Control decks I have tried have really been Torrential Gearhulk, Settle the Wreckage, and Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh. I run The Scarab God in various numbers between 1-2 main and 2-3 side... and really he has been more of a glorified blocker a fair amount of the time. He blocks and kills things while eating removal - far more than he ever reanimates something. Which is, surprisingly handy as funny as it is.
I know the UB Tezzeret Improvise deck probably isn't as competitive as a standard Control deck, but if one was to play it, is it better to play Metallic Rebuke or Supreme Will? I am not sure if the discount is better or having the late game filtering.
I am running 4 Reverse Engineer for draw and 9 artifacts
I feel Supreme Will is almost strictly better. It's never dead, unlike every other soft counter in the format.
Coming at this from a slightly different angle, I think I've got something here. I've been testing this list on cockatrice/xmage/untap and the other free testing sites since the spoilers first came out. I know those places are not a fantastic sample because people play cards they don't own, don't know all the rules, and there is no judge.
The biggest choice I made when starting was based on the meta. Looking at almost all of the top8 results of the past several various competitive tournaments, leagues, etc, every deck seems like a creature-based deck that wants to win with 2-3 critters on the board. That plus the newly printed Carnage Tyrant suggests to me that the IXA meta will be filled with decks that win with creatures. One other VERY important fact is that the 3 biggest reasons to not go ham on board wipes just rotated (avacyn, gideon ally of zendikar, selfless spirit)
Which is why I run 8 wrath effects.
Fumigate is an allstar once you get to 5 lands, which you will because of all the card filtration. Since this deck only runs 1 creature, Tocatli Honor Guard, what this card basically reads is 3WW: Destroy all your opponent's creatures, you gain 1 life for each creature killed this way. Pretty sweet.
Settle the Wreckage is F**KING INCREDIBLE. At 4 mana, it's just fast enough to save us vs Ramunap Red if we're on the draw, as even their quickest starts won't have us anywhere near dead by their turn 4. It's also the best answer we have vs Hazoret.
Tocatli Honor Guard is the only creature in the deck and he puts in some WORK. At 1/3, he's the perfect size chump blocker vs most cards in ramured, and his static ability turns earthshaker khenra and the rest of their etb critters into vastly worse versions of themselves. He's also a fantastic play vs Temur Energy, bricking their entire deck until removed. He also shuts down gearhulks and much much more. Truly an incredible card that hits a ton of cards that are very popular right now. He's easy to remove at 3 toughness, but even if he eats a lightning strike, it's worth it.
Search for Azcantl is low-key my favorite card in the deck. I only run 2 because it's legendary, but the first mode is a fantastic filtration engine, and the 2nd mode is insane inevitability that combos great once you windmill slam down your approach. Once it flips it almost feels like you're playing with divining top in standard, but better.
the rest of the choices are fairly obvious, 4x essence scatter mainboard over censors or anything else because creatures are the hottness in this meta. Essence Scatter is the best counter post-rotation no doubt in my mind, and I've never regretted having 4 mb. Once we're in g2 i can swap out a few or all if need be.
I'd love any thoughts. Scarab God is in my sb as my best way to win around a Gideon of the Trials which is otherwise a pretty tough-to-beat play vs this deck. He's also decent at gy interaction as all the gy cards right now are creatures and you can respond to their god pharaohs gift targeting a critter by stealing it yourself, if you were bad enough to let gift hit the battlefield and reach their combat step.
I've been considering vraska's contempt over never/return in the sb because i find myself wanting more ways to deal with hazoret than I currently have. If only declaration in stone were still legal.
The deck plays like a cross between a prison deck and a control deck. 8 wrath effects means I spend the first several turns establishing a board state with cards like honor guard and search, while using supreme will and essence scatter to keep their board relatively controlled. I will often let them resolve a few creatures turns 3 and 4, even allowing them to take a swing or two so they over-extend, then start raining down the fumigates and wrath-to-exiles. Finish off with Approach as a wincon and serve over-easy with a side of saltiness as they watch you durdle durdle durdle into a win.
I don't want to oversell this, but I have yet to face a deck that I don't think I have at least a 50% matchup against, and vs most decks (like ramured, temur energy, and other grindy creature-based midrange decks) I almost feel like i'm facerolling unless they have really good draws. Ramured is obviously the toughest matchup, although 8x wrath effects against a deck with zero protection from a wrath is pretty good MB, and once I can put in 3 Authority of the Consuls from the SB it feels like an unlosable matchup (unless I lose to variance and draw a ***** ton of lands or no lands at all)
VERY interesting. I agree on Vraska's Contempt over Never/Return. Mainly due to the instant speed, but the 2 life looks good for your end goal as well.
Have you actually tested any of this online? I ask because Ramunap Red makes your list look bad, and it's the clear frontrunner right now. Gifted Aetherborn and Contraband Kingpin are just better against Mono-Red than Shielded Aether Thief. The Thief is a nice idea for when you have time, but they won't be giving that to you unless their decks just falls apart on itself.
It's also slow. The control decks for this format don't need more slow stuff that doesn't have an effect on the board. Feel free to do whatever you want though. It's just an opinion on a card I have tested.
Umm, you do know Vraska's Contempt will be legal right? It's also permanent and instant-speed.
I think you overestimate the speed of the format. Maybe come SCG Dallas everyone takes a different turn than what I'm seeing, but if what's happening online is any indication, you're going to be in a lot of trouble with the green splash.
I'm torn on Settle the Wreckage. It seems to solve some problems, but I really hated giving my opponents lands, which also filters their draws. I also don't like it being conditional to all attacking creatures, but then it wouldn't work so well against the hexproof stuff. I'm wondering if we just need to play unconditional sweepers.
Yea, your list is pretty close to what I ended on as far as non-lands. I'm trying to stick to Dimir colors as well, but wedge color mana bases are fairly easy to put together now. The only reason Esper is still on the table for me is because I want a sweeper that doesn't potentially kill me, and the drawback on Bontu's Last Reckoning can be brutal. Walk the Plank is also painful, but there's literally nothing else to put in that slot unless we go add red. I think the sorcery-speed of it will hurt us big time though unless we go toward a tap-out style of deck. Maybe that's what I need to consider?
I think for this type of control, there`s no where to go but Esper (as much as it pains me to say it; I always play UB).
With the reprinting of ally checklands, Esper colors can be easily set up and Aether Hub is relevant when playing 4 Glimmer of Genius (Did we agree that this should still be a playset?)
The reason I think Esper is the way is because this type of control cannot utilize Bontu`s Last Reckoning to it`s fullest potential. I`d go so far as to say you will likely lose if they advance their board after you resolve a Bontu`s.
So, because of that reasoning, I think Fumigate is going to be one of the strongest cards in the 75. If you`re asking why going Esper is, in my opinion, the best option for Draw-Go at the moment, as opposed to UW Approach, it is because of the reprinting of Duress and for the flexibility of the removal package.
Having a crap ton of reactive answers to threats aren`t going to help you if your opponent is able to actually resolve something. Fatal Push , Cast Out , Ixalan`s Binding (perhaps?), Fumigate , Vraska`s Contempt , Doomfall and Trial of Ambition offer a varied and tool-boxy suite that can answer every threat in Standard. Also, Lost Legacy and Dispossess can absolutely devastate much of the meta alone (These are proactive, so I recommend these out of the side-board, of course)
I don`t have a list to offer at the moment, but I just wanted to give my 2 cents on the archetype.
Pretty much my opinion on everything. Search For Azcanta sounds amazing on paper, but it does nothing to the board, and you might be dead by the time it gets rolling. I like the pseudo-scry, but I'd rather kill my opponent's creatures, or prevent them from resolving. I also think Hostage Taker is way overrated, especially when Gonti, Lord Of Luxury exists. Gonti gives you options (including taking the Carnage Tyrant they were about to draw), and his deathtouch helps against MANY problem creatures. I took my Temur opponent's Chandra yesterday. There is no describing how stupid that was .
Nobody has touched on what I think is the real upcoming problem for control: Shapers' Sanctuary. I, personally, would rather play against Ripjaw Raptor and Carnage Tyrant all day than play against this. I wanted to go Grixis for Bolas, but I'm staying Esper for Forsake The Worldly, along with Fumigate.
I have been playing UW Approach, but am about to switch to Esper Control/Approach. Adding black is just very strong right now. Still working on getting the numbers right and the sideboard is just what I am currently testing. Let me know what you think.
I like it, especially having a win con besides Approach itself. IMHO, I think you want more Duress MD than Harsh Scrutiny, as you should clean up aggro game 1 without much problem. I have never lost a G1 to Approach due to having literally no requirements other than to counter X amount of Approach and watch them scoop or deck.
For those with SCG Premium, Shaun McLaren's article today deals with control's options for the new Standard. But, whatever you do, don't play his UB list he puts up. 4 Torrential Gearhulk with no other wincons. WTH is he smoking lol?
Anyway, I'm all about Vraska's Contempt and Harsh Scrutiny right now. Thinking about going from Esper to UB, but I don't feel comfortable playing a deck without a real sweeper (I don't know if I count Bontu's Last Reckoning, the no untap is REALLY dangerous from all of my testing).
Pretty much. I've also seen some aggro-ish variation of Zombies that are a bit more "rawr-smash" too. I just can't afford to be on the draw and have to mulligan an otherwise decent hand because I have 2 Pull from Tomorrow in my hand or other questionable cards. Even when you're not facing off against an aggro deck, how often do you want to see more than 1 Pull in your opening hand?
Basically these reasons. Pull From Tomorrow is still absurdly powerful, but the fast aggro matches just don't leave you time for this kind of spell, and you want faster speed stuff in your opening hand.
It was. Sorry, using quotes is a pain for me atm. Only have a phone. You also run wilds, don't you? Correct. 2 MD I have 9 W sources, 6 cpt t1. I'll see how it goes in my rebuild. You still run 2 kalitas too, right? 2 SB. Not great right now, but the exile effect is really good vs. Zombies and Emerge. Tempted to shave one for Authority 4.
Looks ok Jon, I dislike only 3 draw spells. I also dislike maxing out on counters, due to them not being great when you are being beaten down already. Maybe 1 downfall over a counter? I'm really interested in how the desert works out!
How often are you able to drop it t1 or 2? Chaos and I are kinda UBw (anguished, vents and alliance with me having sorin on top on that). I don't want to distort my mana base too much for it either. So that's my issue.
My amonkhet cards finally arrived today. So hoping to get a rebuild happening for the weekend. Will post soon hopefully.
I assume this is to me. I only have 3 T1 white sources, so T2 is the usual. I will mulligan if I have no Authority, or if the hand's curve is high. I've kept and won off T1 Authority with no more plays until T3. Backbreaking vs red. Multiples are just flat out unfair. That's the temptation of going to 4 SB. I've only dropped them back to back in one game, and that was the most lopsided games I've played against a Tier 1 deck in ages. I probably will if I think GP DC will have a lot of red. It almost feels like a bye at this point.
BTW, testing a new mana base to: 1. Maybe fit Bolas in, and 2. To have less lands come into play tapped. I think I'll be able to T1 Authority a lot more.
I have 2 Yahenni's Expertise in the sideboard. Largely I find that I don't really need sweepers except against UW Monument when it gets going. Otherwise, I generally have enough removal to recover. Also did I mention that The Scarab God is a boss?
I'll have to get home to list my sideboard. I don't remember most of it since I've been changing it a lot. I can tell you that I don't run Authority of the Consuls. I have Blessed Alliance instead. I think there may be two now. Authority requires that I have an untapped white source and at least one of the enchantment on turn one to be really effective. It's still good later on, but that's generally what I would want from it, which means I'll need at least three of them in my sideboard possibly? I'm not sure on that but it seems like a lot of slots.
If my metagame had less Ramunap Red, I would consider Pull from Tomorrow. As it is, I can't risk having to mulligan because of it.
I LOVE Blessed Alliance (I play 2 MD), but Authority is absurd right now. There's not a ton of red here, but a lot of aggro in general, and it's been a house. T1 or T2 Authority, especially on the play, makes red a whole different match. I'm X-0 vs. red (not an exaggeration). I'm down to 2 Pull considering taking them out or moving to SB. Authority slows them down so much, it's like a free two turns. I can't stress how insane it is right now. If you have a lot of red in your meta, make it easy on yourself and crush them. I'm ending SB games at 15 or more life regularly, and I side out all Disallow, leaving no counters for PW besides Supreme Will. Authority frees up so much time and resources, I'm getting away with it. Playing 3. Considering 4, but it just doesn't seem needed since they can't beat me right now. Also good vs Emerge.
@Jon Are you comfortable running 3 Push on an aggro meta? Will the 4th be coming in when/if you drop Bontu's?
Also, is Pummeller a deck in your area? With your proposed changes, how do you deal with a resolved Hydra, without having to 2 for 1 yourself.
@all I'll be putting up my revised list soonish (tomorrow probs) after being able to get a hold of 1 Scarab God, 4 Will and 4 Doomfall.
EDIT: @Triple What's you manabase like? How many W sources are you running? Are you UBw or UBW? I'm trying to fit 3 Authority into my sb, but I'm UBw and don't want to distort the mana horribly.
Is anyone that is playing esper running authority? Why/why not?
I personally think it's decent atm, but I'm running UBw and not sure I can stretch the mana to consistently be able to drop it T1/2.
EDIT: also Approach.
I'm looking at something of a wincon suite between mb and sb of: 1 sorin, 1 jace, 1 ob, 2/3 lili, 3 hulk, 1/2 scarab and maybe 1 approach. With 2/3 kalitas in sb. Too many wincons (I personally don't see hulk as a proper wincon)?
I'm running 3 ATM. Been sick vs. Red, really good vs Zombies and good against the other aggro decks.
Also, there is no such thing as too many wincons, as long as your deck isn't stretched too thin, or diluted.
I'm actually not planning on it in a Grixis shell, but a UB one. Running two Crypts over Blighted Fen and Westvale Abbey that I have at the moment, it shouldn't change any of my mana source availablility.
As I said, it was one of my usual outside the box weird ideas... Worst case it means you last one turn longer, but that could very well be all that's needed to stabilise...
In UB, no Fen means you have no outs to a resolved Ulamog or Sphinx Of The Final Word.
As well as staying alive...
I'm on UB with a white splash with 2 Field running 26. It's not bad at all.
THIS
I feel Supreme Will is almost strictly better. It's never dead, unlike every other soft counter in the format.
VERY interesting. I agree on Vraska's Contempt over Never/Return. Mainly due to the instant speed, but the 2 life looks good for your end goal as well.
Pretty much my opinion on everything. Search For Azcanta sounds amazing on paper, but it does nothing to the board, and you might be dead by the time it gets rolling. I like the pseudo-scry, but I'd rather kill my opponent's creatures, or prevent them from resolving. I also think Hostage Taker is way overrated, especially when Gonti, Lord Of Luxury exists. Gonti gives you options (including taking the Carnage Tyrant they were about to draw), and his deathtouch helps against MANY problem creatures. I took my Temur opponent's Chandra yesterday. There is no describing how stupid that was
Nobody has touched on what I think is the real upcoming problem for control: Shapers' Sanctuary. I, personally, would rather play against Ripjaw Raptor and Carnage Tyrant all day than play against this. I wanted to go Grixis for Bolas, but I'm staying Esper for Forsake The Worldly, along with Fumigate.
I like it, especially having a win con besides Approach itself. IMHO, I think you want more Duress MD than Harsh Scrutiny, as you should clean up aggro game 1 without much problem. I have never lost a G1 to Approach due to having literally no requirements other than to counter X amount of Approach and watch them scoop or deck.
Anyway, I'm all about Vraska's Contempt and Harsh Scrutiny right now. Thinking about going from Esper to UB, but I don't feel comfortable playing a deck without a real sweeper (I don't know if I count Bontu's Last Reckoning, the no untap is REALLY dangerous from all of my testing).
Basically these reasons. Pull From Tomorrow is still absurdly powerful, but the fast aggro matches just don't leave you time for this kind of spell, and you want faster speed stuff in your opening hand.
I assume this is to me. I only have 3 T1 white sources, so T2 is the usual. I will mulligan if I have no Authority, or if the hand's curve is high. I've kept and won off T1 Authority with no more plays until T3. Backbreaking vs red. Multiples are just flat out unfair. That's the temptation of going to 4 SB. I've only dropped them back to back in one game, and that was the most lopsided games I've played against a Tier 1 deck in ages. I probably will if I think GP DC will have a lot of red. It almost feels like a bye at this point.
BTW, testing a new mana base to: 1. Maybe fit Bolas in, and 2. To have less lands come into play tapped. I think I'll be able to T1 Authority a lot more.
I LOVE Blessed Alliance (I play 2 MD), but Authority is absurd right now. There's not a ton of red here, but a lot of aggro in general, and it's been a house. T1 or T2 Authority, especially on the play, makes red a whole different match. I'm X-0 vs. red (not an exaggeration). I'm down to 2 Pull considering taking them out or moving to SB. Authority slows them down so much, it's like a free two turns. I can't stress how insane it is right now. If you have a lot of red in your meta, make it easy on yourself and crush them. I'm ending SB games at 15 or more life regularly, and I side out all Disallow, leaving no counters for PW besides Supreme Will. Authority frees up so much time and resources, I'm getting away with it. Playing 3. Considering 4, but it just doesn't seem needed since they can't beat me right now. Also good vs Emerge.
Uhhh...off the top of my head...
1 Plains
3 Island
5 Swamp
4 Hollow
4 Stream
2 Fetid Pools
2 Irrigated Farmland
2 Shambling Vent
2 Concealed Coutyard
2 Evolving Wilds
I'm running 3 ATM. Been sick vs. Red, really good vs Zombies and good against the other aggro decks.
Also, there is no such thing as too many wincons, as long as your deck isn't stretched too thin, or diluted.
In UB, no Fen means you have no outs to a resolved Ulamog or Sphinx Of The Final Word.