Magic Market Index for Aug 17th, 2018
Magic Market Index for Aug 10, 2018
Treasure Cruisin' Modern Big Red
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from Torrysan »

    I can agree with that, but you're neglecting the mana cost. A single black allows you to play more fluidly, and if you're worried about G1, a decent amount of Vraska's Contempt should get you through it.

    I'm going Esper, so far, I will have will have max 3 T1 black sources. I'll also have Settle The Wreckage to clean up bad board states. I am not going to be the guy who loses because his opponent won the die roll and had T1 Llanowar Elves, T2 Steel Leaf Champion or Jadelight Ranger, and hit twice. If I was UB, maybe, but I also don't like having to play several Evolving Wilds to keep my Fatal Pushes "on".

    Quote from Torrysan »

    If you're in trouble, like, real trouble, you'll need to tap out for this. That leaves you with no counter for the next turn and potential to blow out your saga and lose you the game. Personally, I'm steering clear of board wipes until I see a decent enough BG tokens deck running around. And have we really forgotten we have Yahenni's Expertise for those situations anyways? I feel the card fits better in a creature based midrange deck. Hell, it's great with Walking Ballista for BGx Counters.

    I generally agree, but if staying UB, I feel like there needs to be at least 1 "hard" sweeper in your 75. I refuse to lose to T6 (now maybe T4 or 5) Carnage Tyrant. Commit alone isn't enough of a safety net for me.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from Dusk707 »

    This is what I am thinking of starting with once Dominaria is released. Outside of 4 cards every non-land can be played on their turn. I've opted for a white splash to get access to Seal Away and Cast Out for removal and Teferi, Hero of Dominaria as a strong, must be answered threat. Cast Out also has the ability to be cycled away, if needed. This is by no means the final product and I can already see a few possible changes that I might want to make once I can use the cards.

    No Search For Azcanta? Card is bonkers.

    Quote from chaos021 »
    Urza's Ruinous Blast seems bad. This deck will only have 3 ways main deck to enable casting it. I'm pretty sure more will be needed

    Yes. I refuse to play any Legendary Sorceries. If they counted all permanent types, Search For Azcanta would probably make them viable, but a couple of Teferis and a couple Scarab Gods are way too risky to hinge games on, especially for your sweeper. Why would you want Urza's Ruinous Blast over Settle The Wreckage any way? It exiles, and is instant. Also, It doesn't leave your opponents legendary creatures back to keep killing you...
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from JonInWherever »
    The Dominaria spoiler is listed as complete, so now we can start talking about which cards seem good to add in to existing shells.

    For me, Phyrexian Scriptures seems to be the certain replacement for Bontu's Last Reckoning, especially based on the idea that Torrysan mentions above - Reckoning is better dropped on 5+, which would be when Scriptures would go off... Of course, the list of cards below is UB-centric. It could be that Esper may become feasible, splashing for Urza's Ruinous Blast, Teferi, etc.

    Copied over from the thread I had in SNCD, here's the cards that I've seen that could be interesting... Bold = probably close to certain inclusions, Italic = possibles, Normal - looks like fun, probably not worth it.

    Syncopate - useful scaleable counter spell, that exiles too. Likely a certain inclusion as it can deal with Scarab God and eternalize/embalm creatures.
    Unwind - a "free" Negate, but costs one more to start with. Possible one-of?
    Divination - A reprint that has been often used in control decks. May not fit in a reactive deck, but could be good for tap-out.
    Blink of an Eye - may not replace Commit // Memory, but is could be an option with kicker.
    Deep Freeze - sideboard card for Scarab Gods?
    Precognition Field - most likely jank, but tempting to try. Doesn't work well with Search, but in the late game allows filtering etc.

    Cast Down - this could likely going to replace Moment of Craving in the main, as it's a guaranteed kill (against nonlegendaries). Means we can save Contempt for the key cards like Hazoret and TSG. Potentially even a 3-4-of, and a reduction on Essence Scatter? Depends on how legend heavy decks become.
    Phyrexian Scriptures - article on SCG talking about this card on 10 Apr. Could be underrated.
    Dark Bargain - possible... Sees one more than Hieroglyphic Illumination, although the cycling is nice early.
    Demonlord Belzenlok - a one-of top end?
    Josu Vess, Lich Knight - a one-of top end?
    Rite of Belzenlok - possibly a sideboard card to be used as a finisher in control mirrors?

    Rona, Disciple of Gix - again, probably jank, but could be interesting connected with Precognition Field.

    Karn, Scion of Urza - Could he be worth it solely for card advantage? It's not that likely to get a strong -2. Of course, once you've stabilised, you only need 3-4 turns to churn out a huge amount of damage from the tokens (assuming he's been around +1ing for a while).

    Memorial to Genius - another draw "spell" that is easier on the mana base than Arch of Orazca, although Arch is reusable.
    Zhalfirin Void - harkens back to the Theros Temples, but doesn't CIPT, and is colorless.
    Memorial to Folly - return a Gearhulk or a Scarab God? Seems ok...

    My 2 cents...

    Syncopate - Good, but what does it replace? I can't see not playing Disallow because of the utility, and the flat mana cost. Also, Syncopate totally falls apart when you miss land drops...and crap in the control mirror.

    Unwind - I wish it was Rewind, but I'll take it. Not being able to Negate on T2 is bad, but otherwise, it's all upside. Unwind, untap, Glimmer Of Genius will probably break games...

    Cast Down - Call me crazy, but I think it replaces Fatal Push before Moment Of Craving. I know, I know, hear me out...
    1. It covers like 90 to 95% of what Fatal Push covers, but -2/-2 kills some things that Fatal Push doesn't.
    2. I expect Goblins to become the mono red deck of choice, and Kari Zev, Skyship Raider, the biggest hole in the Cast Down plan, should see less play.
    3. We still need the life gain against aggro. Removal gaining life is one of UB's biggest advantages right now.
    4. It's almost never a bad top deck, unlike Fatal Push. No need for Revolt. Unless Legend.dec becomes a thing, Cast Down fails way less.

    Phyrexian Scriptures - The downside on this is probably better than Bontu's Last Reckoning. Letting things you need to kill badly (Carnage Tyrant) live a turn is very dangerous. Also opens you up to Heroic Intervention even more since they get time to prepare, though you will have mana to counter it. It also fails bad against Brontodon and Naturalize. We'll see. I plan on doing Esper (Teferi, Hero Of Dominaria and Settle The Wreckage, along with really good aggro hate), but if I go back to UB, I'll probably at least give it a chance. Also, a nonbo with The Scarab God.

    Karn, Scion Of Urza - IMO, totally overrated outside of dedicated artifact decks. Another reason I want to play Esper, I see Vehicles, or some new variant, making a HUGE comeback on Karn's back.

    Memorial To Genius - Yes please. I love Arch Of Orazca in two color, I think this is way better in three color.

    Memorial To Folly - Also yes. Being able to run out creatures with less risk, as well as overload opponent's removal sound great. Lessens their ability to win by stopping The Scarab God.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on Jodah, Archmage Eternal, Jaya Ballard
    Am I the only one who thinks Jaya is a terrible planeswalker? Her plus abilities are pretty much worthless, even though she costs 5.

    The super-loot and the emblem could be devastating. Doubt she does much, if any damage in Standard. Could be wrong, though.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from Disafear94 »
    How do you guys face UW Drake Haven? There's one person in my meta who plays that and it's the only deck I consistently lose to or draw against when I play UB or Grixis (assuming Lost Legacy doesn't make it)

    When playing Esper or BW Conntrol, I do fine.

    It's the only deck I dislike facing. How do you guys play against it? Minus counter spells, is Lost Legacy the key card?

    What Chaos021 siad is true. With UB, you have to aggressively Duress and Negate your way into keeping Drake Haven off the board. If you can do that, you pretty much win. Commit helps. Lost Legacy is crap in general, but it does help a lot if you can force it through, or catch them with shields down.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from Havrekjex »
    Hi everyone,

    I haven´t played Standard in ages, but I´m considering picking this deck up, the straight UB Control list with lots of counters and God + Hulk as the only creatures. Could anyone please give me a rundown of its good and bad matchups? Does it have very swingy matchups, or are you in the game most of the time? How does the deck fare against UB Midrange? GR Monsters? Sultai Energy? Grixis Energy? Mono Red? UW Gift? UW Approach? GB Snake?

    Thanks for any help, I searched for a bit and didn´t find anything, and I´d like to know a bit about this before I drop $300 on it.

    To be brief, I feel it's good to great against everything except UW Cycling, and Vehicles. Play skill is key, as there is not a lot of room for error, unless your opponent is not having a great game, either.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from chaos021 »

    Here's my problem.

    1. Commit + Field of Ruin is just hoping to get really lucky imo.
    2. Gifted Aetherborn (and Gonti) seem a bit weak against Sultai, which is the main deck that plays it that I'm concerned about.
    3. The Scarab God often eats the Vraska's Contempts they boarded in and/or main decked. It's literally the only card most of them care to kill unless I'm already so far ahead.
    4. I'm convinced Bontu's Last Reckoning is just bad.

    In the cases of 1, 3 and 4, I'd rather just play multiple Doomfall. Otherwise, I end up having to wait and hope they do nothing to mess up my plan.

    Valid, but I think the combination of all of these has me covered. I like Doomfall in general, but I don't like it in today's meta. I'm trying to focus on instants and creatures for Gearhulk and TSG, respectively. Also, Doomfal failing to ANYTHING else being alive on board is a deal breaker, for THAT particular purpose. BTW, Bontu's is a 1 of in the board, IF I keep it in, I agree that it's bad, but it's a good last resort.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from chaos021 »
    Did anyone come up with a solid answer to Carnage Tyrant?

    Commit + Field Of Ruin
    Gifted Aetherborn
    Nehazal, Primal Tide
    The Scarab God + anything
    Bontu's last Reckoning

    Haven't lost to a Carnage Tyrant in ages.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from kodieyost »
    What’s our SB plan for beating Mardu vehicles?

    On the play, bring in Negate and whatever Moment Of Cravings are in SB. Also, any additional exile effects. Also, whatever anti-aggro creatures you have.

    On the draw, bring in less Negate (I do 1 or 2 instead of 3), Moment of Craving, and exile effects. Also, whatever anti-aggro creatures you have.

    Lower you curve, but leave in Torrential Gearhulk and The Scarab God (force them to deal with them, as well as card advantage).

    I could go in depth with a decklist to go off of.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from Draw_Gone »
    I love the Arch, and in non-scarab grixis/UR control I actually went up to 27 land to accomodate it (why play scarbless grixis or simply UR? many reasons, but long story short is that its not obvious the advantages outweigh the costs, so i wouldnt recommend it). But I think there are 2 reasons UB does not run arch.

    1)The interactive spells in grixis was extemely cheap (it was all 1 mana or 2 mana for removal, and 3 mana only for disallow), so it was really easy to interact+arch as soon as arch was on. With a glut of 4 mana removal spells + scarab god activations, the deck is really mana hungry. 6 mana for 1 card is too bad a rate.
    2) It feels much more win-more in UB than scarabless grixis. If you are UB you presumably run scabby, wich means: (a) you already have at least 4 card advantage engines (2 azcanta, 2 scabs), one of which actually kills the opponent and (b) scarificing creatures to a flipped blood fast really helps to stabilize, and this is after you drew 4-6 cards, at 2 mana each. This is a much more efficient rate than the arch.

    TL;DR: the moment you put scabs in your deck, it makes your deck mana hungry in a way that makes arch not good; also, in UB arguel draws at a better rate and has late game synergy with scabs.

    While you make some good points, Arch has been amazing for me. It's an extra draw source that doesn't skip over your win cons like Azcanta. It would just be the 4th Field Of Ruin anyway. It also helps overload the opponent's Fields in the control mirror, where the player with the most CA engines is at an advantage. And unlike Blood Fast, it's fine against anything pressuring your life total.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from siregar0511 »
    I'm talking really about the mana needed to power both, not the ascend itself. I personally prefer running 3 search and 1 bloodfast in the sideboard. Bloodfast is nice becasuse it can't get hit by field of ruin

    I run 2 Blood Fast SB. I'm all about drawing cards lol.

    Quote from JonInWherever »
    I see your point, but still... a singleton Arch isn't going to be in play as often as a flipped Search. When it is, and you have the mana to activate both, it's amazing. Super lock down. When you don't, it's an alternative option that could very well be active if Search hasn't flipped, or isn't even in play.

    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from JonInWherever »
    Absolutely! Having four decks in the top 16 was great, as it allows us to see the little changes between them. There were also a few performing decks in a couple of other competitions over the weekend, and in leagues (including one today with 3 God 3 Hulk). I'm still a fan of Mastermind's Acquisition as a 1-of, and there was one list I saw that ran a single Insidious Will! One other list I saw had pulled the large 4-drop draw spells for a play set of Opt, and only one each of Glimmer and Illumination.

    The one thing that I'm a little surprised about is the lack of Arch of Orazca, even from the side. It's an uncounterable, largely unremovable card drawing engine. Getting City's Blessing isn't hard.

    I've been running Arch in lieu of the 3rd Field, and I love it. It's really hard to lose with Azcanta and Arch running.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from siregar0511 »
    I went 2-2 at FNM last night. I lost to a U/B midrange due to manascrew and got absolutely destroyed by a U/G Fish deck. I mean, it wasn't even close. Is merfolk a bad match up for this deck? I can't keep up with the stream of creatures, can't handle the deeproot waters and Kopala, Warden of Waves. Does anyone have any advice on how to adjust my deck to better handle fish?

    Here is my (updated) list:
    Quote from chaos021 »
    An early Deeproot Waters is a problem, but the rest of the deck should be a breeze. Even then, it shouldn't be a bad matchup. Once you run them out of gas, it's pretty hard to lose. After going to sideboard, the rest of the match is easy mode. Kopala, however, is brutal. I think you just can't let it resolve or you have to let it be one of the last threats played on a picked-apart board. Otherwise Kopala just wrecks you. UB midrange has less of a problem with Kopala, but it being on the board is not where you want to be.

    Kopala is the problem, IMO. I think turns 2 through 5, you have to prioritize saving counters for it so you aren't stuck with unplayable removal. Also, I think you have to be playing Golden Demise or Yahenni's Expertise. I'm on 2 GD SB right now, because of lower cost, but debating going to YE anyway for max effectiness. If they have the counter, they have it. You need ways to clear the hexproof tokens, as well as both killing Kopala under most circumstances.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on UB(x) control
    Quote from Draw_Gone »
    I agree with Chaos: 4th vraska's > 1st Chupa Chups.

    Went 3-2 on a league using a pile I post below. Won all my non mono-red matches quite convincingly (2-1 vs UG fish, 2-0 vs BG snek, 2-0 vs RW path of mettle) , and lost my 2 mono red matches. I'm in this rut where I can easily tweak decks to beat R but then loose to bigger decks, or I tweak to beat other decks and loose to red!

    The deck looks like a pile, and it partially is, because it was an experiment. I simply went to mtggoldfish, looked at the metagame staples list, and made the first 70 cards by just mimicking the # played of the relevant control cards in the top-50 dominant cards. The idea was inspired by Frank Karsten's "average deck" idea. I have to say, I thought it would play out much much worse than it did. I even beat Paul Rietzl in the BG match Smile The only problem is that I felt light on card draw; a couple of times I was at the mercy of topdecks, and I hate that feeling. Chaining card draw spells together is where I want to be.

    IMHO, you're losing to red because you aren't maxed out on Moment Of Craving and Vraska's Contempt. The life gain from these removal spells is very important in these matches. Post-board, I am on 4 Moment, 4 Contempt, and 2 Essence Extraction. Of course, this is an advantage of UB over Grixis, but I think that's how you beat red right now.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on FNM promos go back to STD legal cards
    Now, can we go back to Game Day, without those goofy deck boxes?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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