Big Red could be an option. Though, you should run 24-25 land with that curve.
I have been testing this deck for more than 2 months now and it works great on 22 lands, I tried playing 23 lands but it was messing with its mojo. The deck goes down to 1 card or 0 cards in hand by turn 5 so that's no problem in activating Hazoret. There are only 9 cards which are 4 casting cost or higher, everything else in the deck costs 3 or less to cast so once the deck gets 4 lands out I can cast 2 spells every turn so that's not a problem at all.
I look forward to destroying lots of people with this mono-red beast of a deck starting next month. I still have 3 slots open in my sideboard for relevant cards that can deal with Gods, maybe some type of control card.
So, after taking a look at some older cards and some of the newer cards I came to the conclusion that aside from lightning strke there is nothing else to entice me to fit in deck if it is kept as mono red so the version I am testing right now and will be playing in the future looks like this:
The deck doesn't run any one-drop creatures choosing instead to have magma spray open for turn one.
On turn two the deck starts to drop creatures since it runs 9 two-drops or it can use one of the 8 burn spells.
Starting on turn 3 the deck can drop one of the 8 3-drops which all have haste.
Turn 4 is a key turn, depending on the matchup the deck can push out Hazoret or can drop two of the 2-drop creatures, or cast a creature and a burn spell or even drop a 3-drop creature and a magma spray.
Turn 5, more combinations are possible or you can cast a Dragon and hit hard.
In my testing, I was out of cards or down to 1 card by turn 4 or turn 5.
The reason I am running the aether chaser main deck is twofold. One obvious reason is that I can get 2 energy to help harnessed lighting kill bigger creatures in the future, or help to keep lathnu hellion in play for 1 extra turn. The other reason is that it has first strike so it can kill opposing bomat couriers or other 1 or 2 toughness creatures first before it gets killed, so it can block quite well and it may even eat an opposing shock or lightning strike from the opponent.
Make no mistake, this deck is geared to defeating the mirror match in game 1, that is the reason for the main deck magma spray, to deal with earthshaker khenras and if people decide to play main deckscrapheap scrounger.
If there is no reason to exile creatures I will be changing all the magma sprays to shocks after some more testing. The deck runs 26 creatures out of which 6 can come back through embalm/eternalize so it has actually access to 32 creatures at any one time which makes it extremely resilient.
Why did Wizards make cobbled wings a common I will never know, it is absolute destruction in sealed and will be in the top 3 picks in draft, after a more broken rare or uncommon. Imagine making one of your big dinosaurs fly, and then pay 1 mana to equip another one and so on...not to mention there are exactly 2 cards in the set that can destroy artifacts, 1 in red and 1 in green and the green one is uncommon.
Seriously messed up and overpowered card in a set where almost half the creatures played will be 5/5 or even bigger...I got wrecked two games at the pre-release today by a dinosaur deck without this equipment, but I can just imagine how much faster I would have died if he did open the equipment in his sealed pool. Why Wizards...why?
We discussed this above, it doesn't look good on paper and you will get crushed by aggro decks before you get to cast any enchantments or artifacts, so it's quite unrealistic.
Also having a three color mana base is sketchy at best, even two colors makes it hard to get double white or blue by the third turn depending on what you want to cast.
Thirdly this deck needs to limit coming into play tapped land to only 4 or up to 8 max, and having only two colors is more forgiving anyways.
xaltair - How often are you turning Kefnet the Mindful into a dude or are you just using it as a 4 mana/draw a card? I played some with your early list and it seemed to run pretty smooth, just I couldn't ever activate him.
After a bunch of testing, I have added 2 Field of Ruin to the list. With all the flip lands doing silly stuff, seems almost a necessity.
Kefnet was in the deck as an alternate win condition and also to draw cards, not much chance to actually turn him online but the opponent doesn't know that. Also he survives Fumigate easily and can continue to draw cards for you after.
In my current testing I was able to approach on the 7th turn and then cast the second one just after another turn or two. The most important part for the deck is to not miss any land drops for the first 5-6 turns, and of course not to die before you can cast the first approach.
Testing with search has seen me cast search on turn 4 quite often, right before Fumigate and then it will flip on turn 5 or 6 usually.
After sideboard the deck will turn into a creature deck and will only run one approach main deck just in case, one is all you need technically.
This is the decklist I'm testing right now, I ended up fitting in sunscourge champion maindeck to help block, gain life and get into the graveyard to help activate Search to Azcanta, or I can eternalize it to get another blocker and 4 more life. I have also decided to fit 2 Search to Azcanta onto the maindeck so the deck is running more creatures than usual and less creature removal but it looks more stable starting on turn 3.
The deck seems to run very smooth, if you're facing an aggro deck you can drop the Sunscourge Champions turn 3 and maybe 4 to gain some life, or you can drop it turn 3 to block or die and then eternalize it on turn 4. By discarding a card you'd be helping with a turn 5 Search for Azcanta or you can discard a land that can help activate your Hostile Desert so you can block with it.
I'm really liking the idea of having a counter ready turn 2 or 3 or you can drop some blockers which come back and that should keep you alive enough to Fumigate on turn 5 or 6. Even if you kill your guys it doesn't matter because they come back with Eternalize and if you manage to get a Kefnet out he will help you draw cards as well and of course he's Fumigate proof.
I'm thinking of running an aggressive creature deck coming out from the sideboard with Crested Sunmare and Regal Caracal coming in as win conditions to go with the Sunscourge Champions maindeck.
I have no doubt that Search for Azcanta is the nuts once you get it into play, my problem is with finding at least 2 slots for it in the deck since it's very hard to fit in. I would have to cut either a couple of counters (I'm running 16 right now) or cut some creature kill cards or Cast Outs.
Also, bounce spells can't work main deck since aggro decks will be very fast and bouncing a 1 CMC or 2 CMC creature doesn't do much at all, you need to be able to kill those creatures after they come into play not bounce them. You can play bounce in the sideboard for control decks, midrange or combo decks or even Scarab God decks.
That Sunbird's Invocation is a terrible deck, what's the point of casting a 6 to cast Enchantments just so next turn you can hope to find the second Approach in the top 7 cards of your library...it's slow and clunky and very luck based at the best of times. If you don't find the 2nd Approach then you're back to square one, after you cast the 1st one and need to draw the second one to win, meanwhile this enchantment just wasted 2-3 slots of cards in your deck.
I'm not even going to mention the fact that you may not even draw the Sunbird's Invocation by the time you hit turn 6 or 7 and you may have already drawn 2 Approaches instead which makes the enchantment useless.
Control decks do not have any spare slots to be playing this kind of trash, you need to counter, kill creatures and draw cards so you can draw your win condition fast. If the cards in your deck don't do any of those 3 things then you can't play them in the deck, it's a simple as that.
Also, control decks need to hit their correct mana and not miss a land drop until turn 5 at least, so you can Fumigate on schedule...you can't afford to have the wrong mana or too many come into play tapped lands because of that reason.
So, I will be staying on U/W because it is the more solid color and now that it has Fumigate for turn 5 and potentially Settle the Wreckage for turn 4 there's no reason to be splashing or going into another color. There's no reason to be playing bounce spells either, you need spells that actually deal damage or kill that creature, not for you to have to deal with it the next turn, since against Ramunap red most of their critters are 1 or 2 or 3 to cast at max, except for Hazoret which can be Cast Out.
Anyway, I've already given my explanations of what I'll be running in my deck on the previous page or above, also I don't see Gideon as a safe drop on turn 3 just to "fog" one creature" and the reason is that first you need to have 2 white on turn 3, second is that if the opp has 2 creatures out and you fog one he will still attack with the other one and then shock or lightning strike Gideon and you can't save him because you will be tapped out. So, all in all your Gideon will be a "fog" for you on turn 3 and that's it...you still didn't kill one of their threats and at most you made them use a burn spell on Gideon instead of you.
I know how this will play out because I'm one of the original creators of Ramunap red and have been playing some versions of that deck since June of this year, that's why I stopped playing my U/W control and had some fun with mono red instead. Also, remember that a Sunscorched desert can also hit Gideon instead of you, so they may not even need to use a burn spell on him if they attack with an Ahn Crop Crasher and then drop a desert and hit Gideon for 4 that turn.
Anyway, still looking forward to other ideas of what to run in this deck after next week, I want to get back to U/W control and winning games with Approach instead of critters and burn.
Can't wait to hear your ideas on this build or any other suggestions you may have.
Nice write-up and I like the looks of your list. Thanks for sharing your thought process on how you came up with the cards you did. Going to be fun seeing all the new ideas and what everyone comes up with. Only suggestion right off the bat is Search for Azcanta. I feel like this is going to be a great card in our deck. And personally Gideon of the Trials has been doing so much work for me the last few weeks, he is an automatic 2 of main. Will try your desk as you have it and then try a few of my tweaks and let you know what I come up with.
I don't see Search for Azcanta as an auto-include since it doesn't do much against aggro decks and you can't cast it until maybe turn 5 or 6 since you'll be defending yourself in the first few turns, and you can flip it the next turn but it doesn't really matter by that time.
I'd rather have a body like Champion of Wits to draw me cards and block something rather than this enchantment. It may be good as a 2 of in the sideboard against slower decks, like a mirror match or a combo deck or some other control deck like U/B or U/R decks.
As for Gideon of the Trials I'm sure it is good if you can drop him turn 3 and make an emblem, the only issue is if the opponent already has a couple of guys out then they'll kill him the next turn since you probably don't have any blockers by turn 3 and the other issue is that if the Ramunap Red decks play both Shock and Lightning Strike then he can use those to knock down and even kill Gideon right away as well, even if he is at 4 loyalty.
IT's very easy for that deck to deal 4 damage by turn 3 or turn 4 if you go first.
I'd much rather kill one of their creatures with Farm, or counter their creature with a counterspell or after sideboard drop a Sunscourge Champion to gain 2 life and have a body to block.
I think Ramunap Red will change to deal with the strong green decks that will appear in the format, some of those damn Dinosaurs are Fat and very fast as well. (I should know since I'm one of the original builders of that deck and am still tweaking it right now as well to play it in the new standard, don't ask why my two standard decks are Mono Red and Blue/White control, I know they are directly about as opposite as you can get in magic)
As for our deck, the only way to deal with ramunap red is to go less on counters and more on creatures to block them and gain life since we don't have 2 mana casting cost direct removal anymore.
So we will have to play some of these in the sideboard:
bishop's soldier - it can come out on turn 2, block something and gain us 2 life before it dies, it can also kill something as well since it's a 2/2
inspiring cleric - it can come out turn 3 and gain us 4 life and then block a creature and die or trade with some creatures since it's a 3/2.
and of course:
sunscourge champion - it can come out on turn 3 and gain us 2 life before it blocks and trades with a critter, then on turn 4 we can eternalize it and gain 4 life and a 4/4 body.
In the spells section we have these choices:
Impeccable timing - it can deal 3 damage to an attacking creature on turn 2, so it'll anything that ramunap red can cast and hit us with on turn 2 or 3.
farm // market- it can kill an attacking creature on turn 3, again it will kill anything they have and hit us with on turn 3 and we get to draw some cards late game.
slash of talons- it can kill their turn 1 or turn 2 attacking critter by dealing 2 damage to it.
So, these are the best choices for sideboarding kill cards against ramunap red...bounce spells really don't do much against 1 to cast and 2 to cast critters. It's up to your which combination for spells and life gaining creatures you want to run in the sideboard.
I am leaning towards 3 Sunscourge Champion (since we can eternalize them next turn and get a bigger body and gain more life) and also running 3 Slash of talons in the sideboard. I will also be running 3-4 Regal Caracal to side in against ramunap red, too.
The maindeck already has 3 farm // market to deal with other creature decks and help draw cards mid-game, and of course 3 Cast outs and 3 Fumigates. I will test 1 settle the wreckage maindeck since I don't think it is very useful against small critters but a lot better against bigger creatures or those with hexproof.
The key to winning against ramunap red is to gain life while putting down bodies to block their creatures, and also keeping your counterspells at only 2 mana casting cost so you can deal with their early threats, by 2 mana I mean using 4 essence scatter as well as 2-3 negate for their burn spells and also a few censor as well. They will usually tap out in the first 2-4 turns so cancel may work great against them.
I am also testing 2 hostile desert in my deck to give me some extra blocking power midgame.
Anyway without further ado this is the list that I'm testing now:
So as you can see there's 11 cards (if you include the aethersphere harvesters) in the sideboard dedicated to ramunap red or actually 13 if I end up using settle the wreckage as well.
So against Ramunap Red I will take out:
2 Champion of Wits
2 Disallow
1 Commit // Memory
2 Censor
1 Approach of the Second Sun
1 Cast Out
1 Negate
1 Fumigate
and put in:
3 Sunscourge Champion
3 Regal Caracal
3 Slash of Talons
2 Aethersphere Harvester (good blocker, can get lifelink due to energy from glimmer of genius and kefnet can crew this badboy all day long, as can the 1/1 cat tokens from Regal Caracal)
Maindeck has no less than 16 counterspells to be able to keep control of which 11 are two casting cost counters.
We need to search for the Approaches, so besides the usual 4 Glimmer of Genius I'm also running 2 Champion of Wits, 2 Supreme Will, 3 Farm//Market to aftermath, as well as cycling lands and of course the Censors also cycle and last but not least Kefnet will also help draw cards for us slowly.
I'm running 3 maindeck Fumigates since they don't affect Kefnet and I actually want Champion of Wits to die whether he is blocking someone or dying to Fumigate it doesn't matter since I can eternalize him and get to draw even more cards.
The 2 Hostile deserts will make good blockers once I get some lands into my graveyard either by cycling, discarding to champion of wits or market.
The deck needs to survive until it can cast Approach of the Second Sun two turns in a row and it is set up in such a way to make that possible. I like to keep the coming into play tapped lands to a minimum that's why I'm running a maximum of 8 of those lands out of 25 and also hoping that the glacial fortresses will come into play untapped most if not all of the time.
Can't wait to hear your ideas on this build or any other suggestions you may have.
So, I went to the local tourney today which had 32 players and 6 rounds and tested my R/B deck with the list from the previous page and due to making some deckbuilding mistakes, not reading opp's cards and him not telling me what it does (I live in Japan and I can't read Japanese so I don't know what older cards do, since I'm only aware of Amonkhet/HofD full cards and I know most of the Kaladesh/Aether as well but I don't know many older cards that are rotating next week) so technically he kind of cheated due to not telling me what is a "must" effect but anyways...I got my ass handed to me and went 2-4.
I lost to two Ramunap Red decks which were mono red and pretty much net decklists and I lost to two White/Red/Black Eldrazi/Archangel decks with ballista and scavengers main deck.
So first, the deckbuilding mistake that I made was not running any 1 to cast burn spells (shock/magma spray) so I couldn't kill the 1/1's, 2/1 or 2/2 that the ramunap decks run so that sucked since all my burn spells cost at least 2 mana to cast so I was behind the red deck every turn.
As for the other decks that ran scavengers, ballistas, archangel avacyn and thought knot seer they will be out of the format next week so I don't need to worry about them.
Having said that I will be playing a mono-red version of this deck again after next week and I have given up on a B/R version as of right now. Without further ado here is the list that I will be testing after Ixalan is legal next week:
I will need something to deal with gods, so far I only got 2 kari zev's expertise and 2 flings to kind of deal with opposing gods, but I have 6 slots open in the sideboard for something better.
Can't wait to see what everyone's sideboard looks like, of course, it depends on what decks will be strong after the rotation.
I'm partial to tilonalli's skinshifter myself, I see a lot of potential for abuse of it in my deck.
Aside from hazoret I don't run any other legendary creatures and the chance of having the skinshifter copy any of the other creatures is just too good.
The issue with him and the other 3 casting cost creatures is that the slot is already full with ahn crop crasher, lathnu hellion, and now ammit eternal in my deck. Of course the 2 ammits can come out for 2 skinshifters but I'll have to test that.
I can't take out any of the other two 3 casting cost guys.
The two abrades and two unlicensed disintegrations will go to the sideboard to make room for 4 lightning strikes, but I don't see many other changes to this deck aside from these.
Having said that black gives me sword point diplomacy which is a good fit for this deck either drawing you 3 cards or dealing some damage, most of the time you will draw 2-3 cards so it's a win-win situation, and it's only one black so it's playable in this deck.
i too have been considering a splash of Black for some cards Unlicensed Disintegration and Fatal Push, so i am glad someone else is putting his mind into it.
i have a few comments about your deck:
1. only 22 lands but seems like it's too top heavy. could run into some mana issues.
2. i like the interaction between Heart-piercer Manticore and several of the creatures like Ammit Eternal and Lathnu Hellion.
3. probably could use a few artifact creatures like Scrapheap Scrounger for Unlicensed Disintegration.
4. Cut//Ribbons seems like a good finisher if the game goes long.
i'll post my post rotation Rakdos deck when Ixalan becomes fully spoiled in a few days.
I have been playing the deck with 22 lands when it was just mono red as usual, and it worked fine, of course I am trying a 23 land build now that does go up to 61 cards so we'll see how that works in tomorrow's tournament.
Heart piercer manticore has won me quite a few games by flinging other creatures at the face, usually a Lathnu Hellion and even an Ahn Crop crasher sometimes.
This is the deck I'm playing tomorrow, pre-IXALAN build:
The Scorpion God is in the sideboard to be brought in along with the torments of scarabs to surprise some opponents, as will the aethersphere harvester since people will not have artifact or enchantment hate in the 2nd game for sure.
The deck is relatively low to the ground although it may not seem like it by reading the list.
1st turn - no plays, so it would be great to get a tapland in the opening hand so we can play it tapped on the 1st turn since there's nothing else to play.
2nd turn - here we have the choice of playing a 2 drop like the scavenger or the khenra, if we don't have a creature then we'll probably have one of our 2 casting cost burn spells (abrade, cut or lightning)
3rd turn it gets interesting as we can play one of the 3 casting cost critters (ahn-crop, lathnu or ammit or one of the 2 casting cost guys or we have the previous burn available plus the Unlicensed as well online)
4th turn - we can cast most of our deck except for the four Glorybringers, but usually we'd want to drop a Hazoret as soon as possible which means turn 4 is the earliest.
Card choices and explanations:
12 Spells:
4 Harnessed Lightning - Kills small guys and bigger guys, the energy sometimes helps to keep Lathnu Hellion online for one more turn
4 Unlicensed Disintegration - kills big creatures, artifact creatures, any creatures...one of the reasons to play Black and it also deals damage second game once Aethersphere Harvested is sided in.
2 Cut//Ribbons - of course Cut is a good 2 mana kill spells, and Ribbons can win the late game probably will come online after turn 5 or 6 and by that time the opp should be at 5 or less life and this can end the game, another big reason to be playing Black.
2 Abrade - need a couple of more 2 casting cost burn spells and it may also kill some random artifacts in the opps deck in the first game...people still play with heart of kiran and can kill a bomat courier in a kind of mirror match.
26 Creatures:
3 Battlefield Scavenger - he is an MVP in this deck, it is really good at replacing cards in our hands with better cards, also helps discarding khenra or manticore which can both come back later in the game and surprise our opponent.
4 EArthshaker Khenra - hit on the 2nd turn for 2, or get discarded to come back later in the game and hit harder.
4 Ahn-crop crasher - needs no explanations
4 Lathnu hellion - hits for 4 on turn 3, lives for 2 turns or can live an extra due with help from lineedghtning energy
2 Ammit Eternal - good 3 drop to block, and can hit the next turn for some damage
3 Hazoret - great finisher, needs no explanations
2 Heart=piercer manticore - very underrated card, has won me a few games due to the opp not expecting it and when it came into play it threw a 4 power or 3 power creature at their head, it can also be discarded so it can come back later in the game.
4 Glorybringer - great finisher, a lot of the times I will sideboard 2 of them out in exchange for cheaper casting cost cards to put more pressure on the opponent.
22 Lands
1 Ramunap Ruins - one is enough in this deck, I don't want to draw it too often and get pinged for life
4 Sunscorched Desert - I started playing these in the original mono red deck way back in June and still need 4 maindeck especially with the ramunap ruins in the deck and it helps with the desert strangler that's coming in from the sideboard.
1 Hostile DEsert - sometimes I discard lands to scavenger or hazoret or even have a desert in the graveyard due to ramunap ruins, not to mention this can also be sacced to ruins for 2 damage.
Sideboard cards:
2 kari zev's expertise - good against creature decks including people that play with gods
2 fling - self explanatory, amazing with kari zev's expertise
2 chandra's defeat - good against other red creature decks or desk with chandra planeswalkers
2 sand sgrangler - again against other creature decks
1 by force - will come in against decks that run more than a couple artifacts, will help the 2 abrades maindeck
1 scorpion god - testing him against slow decks, control decks and even other creature decks
3 torment of scarabs - great against slow combo decks, and testing them against control decks as well
2 aethersphere harvester - good against other creature decks, and also against slower combo/control decks.
After IXALAN is legal the there will be some changes to the maindeck, probably just 4-6 cards and maybe some changes to the sideboard as well!
As one of the original creators of Ramunap red I have also decided to add a second color to prepare for the post Ixalan standard. The second color I am going for is Black because it gives me more ways to kill opposite creatures so I can go in and hit hard with my creatures. The other reason to have black before Ixalan is due to the addition of Ammit Eternal and the Scorpion God.
Now you are saying to yourself, hold on a minute Ammit Eternal doesn't have haste and Scorpion God also doesn't do much the turn it comes into play. Well, I am testing just 1 Scorpion God right now so keep your panties on, as for Ammit Eternal I used it to win the HOU pre-release and realized how awesome it really is.
The reason it's awesome is because it's only 3 mana to cast and you get a 5/5 which puts it out of most burn spells, even if the opponent makes it a 4/4 or smaller the next turn it is still a creature that can attack and hit for 4 or hit for 3 and if it's blocked he will also hit for 3 through Afflict so it will slowly kill the opp's life total without the need for haste.
So, without further ado and without IXALAN cards this it the deck I'll be running soon:
The main cards are in the deck are the original ones that I used until now so here's the explanation for the new cards added to the deck:
2 Ammit Eternal - I've already explained that dropping a 5/5 for only 3 mana of which you only need 1 black mana means it's splashable and it makes a good and solid blocker for the turn it comes into play while I hit with the other creatures.
1 Scorpion God - I'm just testing him because it may work to deal with some small creatures and of course in the mirror match it can kill a lot of 1 toughness critters, aside from that it's a solid 6/5 body for 5 mana with a very good ability.
2 Cut//Ribbons - This is the main reason I wanted to go the black way, I really like cut to deal with opposing blockers before I hit with my creatures and of course ribbons is an amazing finisher late game.
2 Abrade - These are maindeck for now but after Ixalan comes out they'll be going to the sideboard since I'll have other burn cards maindeck instead.
3 Unlicensed Disintegration - I feel these are amazing in this type of aggro deck where all you have is creatures and creature killing cards. It would be great to take out big creatures to pave the way for my guys to attack and it's also another reason why I decided to splash black.
As for lands, once Ixalan is out I will take out 4 mountains and put in the B/R dual land instead and that's about the only change I'm planning to do.
Sideboard:
Most of the cards are the same but these are the new cards I'll be testing.
2 Sand Stragler - I will be testing this in the mirror match or creature heavy decks which will probably be around after Ixalan is legal.
3 Torment of Scarabs - for combo decks or control or grindy decks where creatures are not enough to win with, also it would be awesome to see my opp's face when they see this come in during the 2nd game. They will probably be prepared to deal with creatures and they will probably not have anything to deal with enchantments and this one will slowly kill my opp or even kill them even faster than usual.
Let me know what you think, once Ixalan comes out some of the cards will change but probably not much as the deck is outstanding as it is right now.
I have been testing this deck for more than 2 months now and it works great on 22 lands, I tried playing 23 lands but it was messing with its mojo. The deck goes down to 1 card or 0 cards in hand by turn 5 so that's no problem in activating Hazoret. There are only 9 cards which are 4 casting cost or higher, everything else in the deck costs 3 or less to cast so once the deck gets 4 lands out I can cast 2 spells every turn so that's not a problem at all.
I look forward to destroying lots of people with this mono-red beast of a deck starting next month. I still have 3 slots open in my sideboard for relevant cards that can deal with Gods, maybe some type of control card.
13 Mountain
4 Sunscorched Desert
2 Desert of the Fervent
1 Ramunap Ruins
2 Hostile Desert
Creatures(26)
2 Heart-piercer Manticore
4 Earthshaker Khenra
3 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Glorybringer
4 Lathnu Hellion
4 Ahn-crop Crasher
3 Aether Chaser
2 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4 Magma Spray
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Lightning Strike
3 Kari Zev's Expertise
2 Sand Strangler
2 Fling
2 Chandra's Defeat
2 Abrade
1 Insult // Injury
3 Open slots
The deck doesn't run any one-drop creatures choosing instead to have magma spray open for turn one.
On turn two the deck starts to drop creatures since it runs 9 two-drops or it can use one of the 8 burn spells.
Starting on turn 3 the deck can drop one of the 8 3-drops which all have haste.
Turn 4 is a key turn, depending on the matchup the deck can push out Hazoret or can drop two of the 2-drop creatures, or cast a creature and a burn spell or even drop a 3-drop creature and a magma spray.
Turn 5, more combinations are possible or you can cast a Dragon and hit hard.
In my testing, I was out of cards or down to 1 card by turn 4 or turn 5.
The reason I am running the aether chaser main deck is twofold. One obvious reason is that I can get 2 energy to help harnessed lighting kill bigger creatures in the future, or help to keep lathnu hellion in play for 1 extra turn. The other reason is that it has first strike so it can kill opposing bomat couriers or other 1 or 2 toughness creatures first before it gets killed, so it can block quite well and it may even eat an opposing shock or lightning strike from the opponent.
Make no mistake, this deck is geared to defeating the mirror match in game 1, that is the reason for the main deck magma spray, to deal with earthshaker khenras and if people decide to play main deckscrapheap scrounger.
If there is no reason to exile creatures I will be changing all the magma sprays to shocks after some more testing. The deck runs 26 creatures out of which 6 can come back through embalm/eternalize so it has actually access to 32 creatures at any one time which makes it extremely resilient.
Seriously messed up and overpowered card in a set where almost half the creatures played will be 5/5 or even bigger...I got wrecked two games at the pre-release today by a dinosaur deck without this equipment, but I can just imagine how much faster I would have died if he did open the equipment in his sealed pool. Why Wizards...why?
We discussed this above, it doesn't look good on paper and you will get crushed by aggro decks before you get to cast any enchantments or artifacts, so it's quite unrealistic.
Also having a three color mana base is sketchy at best, even two colors makes it hard to get double white or blue by the third turn depending on what you want to cast.
Thirdly this deck needs to limit coming into play tapped land to only 4 or up to 8 max, and having only two colors is more forgiving anyways.
Kefnet was in the deck as an alternate win condition and also to draw cards, not much chance to actually turn him online but the opponent doesn't know that. Also he survives Fumigate easily and can continue to draw cards for you after.
In my current testing I was able to approach on the 7th turn and then cast the second one just after another turn or two. The most important part for the deck is to not miss any land drops for the first 5-6 turns, and of course not to die before you can cast the first approach.
Testing with search has seen me cast search on turn 4 quite often, right before Fumigate and then it will flip on turn 5 or 6 usually.
After sideboard the deck will turn into a creature deck and will only run one approach main deck just in case, one is all you need technically.
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Irrigated Farmland
2 Desert of the True
2 Desert of the Mindful
2 Hostile Desert
6 Island
5 Plains
Creatures(7)
2 Kefnet the Mindful
2 Champion of Wits
3 Sunscourge Champion
3 Cast out
2 Search for Azcanta
Spells(27)
3 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Fumigate
4 Glimmer of Genius
4 Essence Scatter
4 Censor
2 Negate
2 Supreme Will
2 Disallow
2 Crested Sunmare
3 Slash of Talons
3 Regal Caracal
2 Aethersphere Harvester
2 Settle the Wreckage
2 Forsake the Worldly
1 Oketra the True
The deck seems to run very smooth, if you're facing an aggro deck you can drop the Sunscourge Champions turn 3 and maybe 4 to gain some life, or you can drop it turn 3 to block or die and then eternalize it on turn 4. By discarding a card you'd be helping with a turn 5 Search for Azcanta or you can discard a land that can help activate your Hostile Desert so you can block with it.
I'm really liking the idea of having a counter ready turn 2 or 3 or you can drop some blockers which come back and that should keep you alive enough to Fumigate on turn 5 or 6. Even if you kill your guys it doesn't matter because they come back with Eternalize and if you manage to get a Kefnet out he will help you draw cards as well and of course he's Fumigate proof.
I'm thinking of running an aggressive creature deck coming out from the sideboard with Crested Sunmare and Regal Caracal coming in as win conditions to go with the Sunscourge Champions maindeck.
Let me know what you guys think about that!
Also, bounce spells can't work main deck since aggro decks will be very fast and bouncing a 1 CMC or 2 CMC creature doesn't do much at all, you need to be able to kill those creatures after they come into play not bounce them. You can play bounce in the sideboard for control decks, midrange or combo decks or even Scarab God decks.
I'm not even going to mention the fact that you may not even draw the Sunbird's Invocation by the time you hit turn 6 or 7 and you may have already drawn 2 Approaches instead which makes the enchantment useless.
Control decks do not have any spare slots to be playing this kind of trash, you need to counter, kill creatures and draw cards so you can draw your win condition fast. If the cards in your deck don't do any of those 3 things then you can't play them in the deck, it's a simple as that.
Also, control decks need to hit their correct mana and not miss a land drop until turn 5 at least, so you can Fumigate on schedule...you can't afford to have the wrong mana or too many come into play tapped lands because of that reason.
So, I will be staying on U/W because it is the more solid color and now that it has Fumigate for turn 5 and potentially Settle the Wreckage for turn 4 there's no reason to be splashing or going into another color. There's no reason to be playing bounce spells either, you need spells that actually deal damage or kill that creature, not for you to have to deal with it the next turn, since against Ramunap red most of their critters are 1 or 2 or 3 to cast at max, except for Hazoret which can be Cast Out.
Anyway, I've already given my explanations of what I'll be running in my deck on the previous page or above, also I don't see Gideon as a safe drop on turn 3 just to "fog" one creature" and the reason is that first you need to have 2 white on turn 3, second is that if the opp has 2 creatures out and you fog one he will still attack with the other one and then shock or lightning strike Gideon and you can't save him because you will be tapped out. So, all in all your Gideon will be a "fog" for you on turn 3 and that's it...you still didn't kill one of their threats and at most you made them use a burn spell on Gideon instead of you.
I know how this will play out because I'm one of the original creators of Ramunap red and have been playing some versions of that deck since June of this year, that's why I stopped playing my U/W control and had some fun with mono red instead. Also, remember that a Sunscorched desert can also hit Gideon instead of you, so they may not even need to use a burn spell on him if they attack with an Ahn Crop Crasher and then drop a desert and hit Gideon for 4 that turn.
Anyway, still looking forward to other ideas of what to run in this deck after next week, I want to get back to U/W control and winning games with Approach instead of critters and burn.
I don't see Search for Azcanta as an auto-include since it doesn't do much against aggro decks and you can't cast it until maybe turn 5 or 6 since you'll be defending yourself in the first few turns, and you can flip it the next turn but it doesn't really matter by that time.
I'd rather have a body like Champion of Wits to draw me cards and block something rather than this enchantment. It may be good as a 2 of in the sideboard against slower decks, like a mirror match or a combo deck or some other control deck like U/B or U/R decks.
As for Gideon of the Trials I'm sure it is good if you can drop him turn 3 and make an emblem, the only issue is if the opponent already has a couple of guys out then they'll kill him the next turn since you probably don't have any blockers by turn 3 and the other issue is that if the Ramunap Red decks play both Shock and Lightning Strike then he can use those to knock down and even kill Gideon right away as well, even if he is at 4 loyalty.
IT's very easy for that deck to deal 4 damage by turn 3 or turn 4 if you go first.
I'd much rather kill one of their creatures with Farm, or counter their creature with a counterspell or after sideboard drop a Sunscourge Champion to gain 2 life and have a body to block.
As for our deck, the only way to deal with ramunap red is to go less on counters and more on creatures to block them and gain life since we don't have 2 mana casting cost direct removal anymore.
So we will have to play some of these in the sideboard:
bishop's soldier - it can come out on turn 2, block something and gain us 2 life before it dies, it can also kill something as well since it's a 2/2
inspiring cleric - it can come out turn 3 and gain us 4 life and then block a creature and die or trade with some creatures since it's a 3/2.
and of course:
sunscourge champion - it can come out on turn 3 and gain us 2 life before it blocks and trades with a critter, then on turn 4 we can eternalize it and gain 4 life and a 4/4 body.
In the spells section we have these choices:
Impeccable timing - it can deal 3 damage to an attacking creature on turn 2, so it'll anything that ramunap red can cast and hit us with on turn 2 or 3.
farm // market- it can kill an attacking creature on turn 3, again it will kill anything they have and hit us with on turn 3 and we get to draw some cards late game.
slash of talons- it can kill their turn 1 or turn 2 attacking critter by dealing 2 damage to it.
So, these are the best choices for sideboarding kill cards against ramunap red...bounce spells really don't do much against 1 to cast and 2 to cast critters. It's up to your which combination for spells and life gaining creatures you want to run in the sideboard.
I am leaning towards 3 Sunscourge Champion (since we can eternalize them next turn and get a bigger body and gain more life) and also running 3 Slash of talons in the sideboard. I will also be running 3-4 Regal Caracal to side in against ramunap red, too.
The maindeck already has 3 farm // market to deal with other creature decks and help draw cards mid-game, and of course 3 Cast outs and 3 Fumigates. I will test 1 settle the wreckage maindeck since I don't think it is very useful against small critters but a lot better against bigger creatures or those with hexproof.
The key to winning against ramunap red is to gain life while putting down bodies to block their creatures, and also keeping your counterspells at only 2 mana casting cost so you can deal with their early threats, by 2 mana I mean using 4 essence scatter as well as 2-3 negate for their burn spells and also a few censor as well. They will usually tap out in the first 2-4 turns so cancel may work great against them.
I am also testing 2 hostile desert in my deck to give me some extra blocking power midgame.
Anyway without further ado this is the list that I'm testing now:
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Irrigated Farmland
2 Desert of the True
2 Desert of the Mindful
2 Hostile Desert
8 Island
3 Plains
Creatures(4)
2 Kefnet the Mindful
2 Champion of Wits
Enchantments(3)
3 Cast out
3 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Fumigate
3 Farm // Market
4 Glimmer of Genius
4 Essence Scatter
4 Censor
3 Negate
2 Supreme Will
2 Disallow
1 Commit // Memory
3 Sunscourge Champion
3 Slash of Talons
3 Regal Caracal
2 Aethersphere Harvester
2 Settle the Wreckage
2 Forsake the Worldly
So as you can see there's 11 cards (if you include the aethersphere harvesters) in the sideboard dedicated to ramunap red or actually 13 if I end up using settle the wreckage as well.
So against Ramunap Red I will take out:
2 Champion of Wits
2 Disallow
1 Commit // Memory
2 Censor
1 Approach of the Second Sun
1 Cast Out
1 Negate
1 Fumigate
and put in:
3 Sunscourge Champion
3 Regal Caracal
3 Slash of Talons
2 Aethersphere Harvester (good blocker, can get lifelink due to energy from glimmer of genius and kefnet can crew this badboy all day long, as can the 1/1 cat tokens from Regal Caracal)
Maindeck has no less than 16 counterspells to be able to keep control of which 11 are two casting cost counters.
We need to search for the Approaches, so besides the usual 4 Glimmer of Genius I'm also running 2 Champion of Wits, 2 Supreme Will, 3 Farm//Market to aftermath, as well as cycling lands and of course the Censors also cycle and last but not least Kefnet will also help draw cards for us slowly.
I'm running 3 maindeck Fumigates since they don't affect Kefnet and I actually want Champion of Wits to die whether he is blocking someone or dying to Fumigate it doesn't matter since I can eternalize him and get to draw even more cards.
The 2 Hostile deserts will make good blockers once I get some lands into my graveyard either by cycling, discarding to champion of wits or market.
The deck needs to survive until it can cast Approach of the Second Sun two turns in a row and it is set up in such a way to make that possible. I like to keep the coming into play tapped lands to a minimum that's why I'm running a maximum of 8 of those lands out of 25 and also hoping that the glacial fortresses will come into play untapped most if not all of the time.
Can't wait to hear your ideas on this build or any other suggestions you may have.
So, I went to the local tourney today which had 32 players and 6 rounds and tested my R/B deck with the list from the previous page and due to making some deckbuilding mistakes, not reading opp's cards and him not telling me what it does (I live in Japan and I can't read Japanese so I don't know what older cards do, since I'm only aware of Amonkhet/HofD full cards and I know most of the Kaladesh/Aether as well but I don't know many older cards that are rotating next week) so technically he kind of cheated due to not telling me what is a "must" effect but anyways...I got my ass handed to me and went 2-4.
I lost to two Ramunap Red decks which were mono red and pretty much net decklists and I lost to two White/Red/Black Eldrazi/Archangel decks with ballista and scavengers main deck.
So first, the deckbuilding mistake that I made was not running any 1 to cast burn spells (shock/magma spray) so I couldn't kill the 1/1's, 2/1 or 2/2 that the ramunap decks run so that sucked since all my burn spells cost at least 2 mana to cast so I was behind the red deck every turn.
As for the other decks that ran scavengers, ballistas, archangel avacyn and thought knot seer they will be out of the format next week so I don't need to worry about them.
Having said that I will be playing a mono-red version of this deck again after next week and I have given up on a B/R version as of right now. Without further ado here is the list that I will be testing after Ixalan is legal next week:
14 Mountain
4 Sunscorched Desert
2 Desert of the Fervent
1 Ramunap Ruins
1 Hostile Desert
Creatures(24)
2 Heart-piercer Manticore
4 Earthshaker Khenra
3 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Glorybringer
4 Lathnu Hellion
4 Ahn-crop Crasher
3 Battlefield Scavenger
4 Magma Spray
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Abrade
4 Lightning Strike
2 Kari Zev's Expertise
2 Sand Strangler
2 Fling
2 Chandra's Defeat
1 Insult // Injury
6 Open slots
I will need something to deal with gods, so far I only got 2 kari zev's expertise and 2 flings to kind of deal with opposing gods, but I have 6 slots open in the sideboard for something better.
Can't wait to see what everyone's sideboard looks like, of course, it depends on what decks will be strong after the rotation.
Aside from hazoret I don't run any other legendary creatures and the chance of having the skinshifter copy any of the other creatures is just too good.
The issue with him and the other 3 casting cost creatures is that the slot is already full with ahn crop crasher, lathnu hellion, and now ammit eternal in my deck. Of course the 2 ammits can come out for 2 skinshifters but I'll have to test that.
I can't take out any of the other two 3 casting cost guys.
The two abrades and two unlicensed disintegrations will go to the sideboard to make room for 4 lightning strikes, but I don't see many other changes to this deck aside from these.
Having said that black gives me sword point diplomacy which is a good fit for this deck either drawing you 3 cards or dealing some damage, most of the time you will draw 2-3 cards so it's a win-win situation, and it's only one black so it's playable in this deck.
I have been playing the deck with 22 lands when it was just mono red as usual, and it worked fine, of course I am trying a 23 land build now that does go up to 61 cards so we'll see how that works in tomorrow's tournament.
Heart piercer manticore has won me quite a few games by flinging other creatures at the face, usually a Lathnu Hellion and even an Ahn Crop crasher sometimes.
This is the deck I'm playing tomorrow, pre-IXALAN build:
11 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Sunscorched Desert
4 Canyon Slough
1 Ramunap Ruins
1 Hostile Desert
Creatures(26)
2 Heart-piercer Manticore
4 Earthshaker Khenra
3 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Glorybringer
4 Lathnu Hellion
4 Ahn-crop Crasher
3 Battlefield Scavenger
2 Ammit Eternal
2 Cut // Ribbons
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Abrade
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
1 By Force
2 Kari Zev's Expertise
2 Sand Strangler
2 Fling
2 Chandra's Defeat
1 The Scorpion God
3 Torment of Scarabs
2 Aethersphere Harvester
The Scorpion God is in the sideboard to be brought in along with the torments of scarabs to surprise some opponents, as will the aethersphere harvester since people will not have artifact or enchantment hate in the 2nd game for sure.
The deck is relatively low to the ground although it may not seem like it by reading the list.
1st turn - no plays, so it would be great to get a tapland in the opening hand so we can play it tapped on the 1st turn since there's nothing else to play.
2nd turn - here we have the choice of playing a 2 drop like the scavenger or the khenra, if we don't have a creature then we'll probably have one of our 2 casting cost burn spells (abrade, cut or lightning)
3rd turn it gets interesting as we can play one of the 3 casting cost critters (ahn-crop, lathnu or ammit or one of the 2 casting cost guys or we have the previous burn available plus the Unlicensed as well online)
4th turn - we can cast most of our deck except for the four Glorybringers, but usually we'd want to drop a Hazoret as soon as possible which means turn 4 is the earliest.
Card choices and explanations:
12 Spells:
4 Harnessed Lightning - Kills small guys and bigger guys, the energy sometimes helps to keep Lathnu Hellion online for one more turn
4 Unlicensed Disintegration - kills big creatures, artifact creatures, any creatures...one of the reasons to play Black and it also deals damage second game once Aethersphere Harvested is sided in.
2 Cut//Ribbons - of course Cut is a good 2 mana kill spells, and Ribbons can win the late game probably will come online after turn 5 or 6 and by that time the opp should be at 5 or less life and this can end the game, another big reason to be playing Black.
2 Abrade - need a couple of more 2 casting cost burn spells and it may also kill some random artifacts in the opps deck in the first game...people still play with heart of kiran and can kill a bomat courier in a kind of mirror match.
26 Creatures:
3 Battlefield Scavenger - he is an MVP in this deck, it is really good at replacing cards in our hands with better cards, also helps discarding khenra or manticore which can both come back later in the game and surprise our opponent.
4 EArthshaker Khenra - hit on the 2nd turn for 2, or get discarded to come back later in the game and hit harder.
4 Ahn-crop crasher - needs no explanations
4 Lathnu hellion - hits for 4 on turn 3, lives for 2 turns or can live an extra due with help from lineedghtning energy
2 Ammit Eternal - good 3 drop to block, and can hit the next turn for some damage
3 Hazoret - great finisher, needs no explanations
2 Heart=piercer manticore - very underrated card, has won me a few games due to the opp not expecting it and when it came into play it threw a 4 power or 3 power creature at their head, it can also be discarded so it can come back later in the game.
4 Glorybringer - great finisher, a lot of the times I will sideboard 2 of them out in exchange for cheaper casting cost cards to put more pressure on the opponent.
22 Lands
1 Ramunap Ruins - one is enough in this deck, I don't want to draw it too often and get pinged for life
4 Sunscorched Desert - I started playing these in the original mono red deck way back in June and still need 4 maindeck especially with the ramunap ruins in the deck and it helps with the desert strangler that's coming in from the sideboard.
1 Hostile DEsert - sometimes I discard lands to scavenger or hazoret or even have a desert in the graveyard due to ramunap ruins, not to mention this can also be sacced to ruins for 2 damage.
Sideboard cards:
2 kari zev's expertise - good against creature decks including people that play with gods
2 fling - self explanatory, amazing with kari zev's expertise
2 chandra's defeat - good against other red creature decks or desk with chandra planeswalkers
2 sand sgrangler - again against other creature decks
1 by force - will come in against decks that run more than a couple artifacts, will help the 2 abrades maindeck
1 scorpion god - testing him against slow decks, control decks and even other creature decks
3 torment of scarabs - great against slow combo decks, and testing them against control decks as well
2 aethersphere harvester - good against other creature decks, and also against slower combo/control decks.
After IXALAN is legal the there will be some changes to the maindeck, probably just 4-6 cards and maybe some changes to the sideboard as well!
Now you are saying to yourself, hold on a minute Ammit Eternal doesn't have haste and Scorpion God also doesn't do much the turn it comes into play. Well, I am testing just 1 Scorpion God right now so keep your panties on, as for Ammit Eternal I used it to win the HOU pre-release and realized how awesome it really is.
The reason it's awesome is because it's only 3 mana to cast and you get a 5/5 which puts it out of most burn spells, even if the opponent makes it a 4/4 or smaller the next turn it is still a creature that can attack and hit for 4 or hit for 3 and if it's blocked he will also hit for 3 through Afflict so it will slowly kill the opp's life total without the need for haste.
So, without further ado and without IXALAN cards this it the deck I'll be running soon:
11 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Sunscorched Desert
4 Canyon Slough
1 Ramunap Ruins
Creatures(27)
2 Heart-piercer Manticore
4 Earthshaker Khenra
3 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Glorybringer
4 Lathnu Hellion
4 Ahn-crop Crasher
3 Battlefield Scavenger
2 Ammit Eternal
1 The Scorpion God
2 Cut // Ribbons
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Abrade
3 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Kari Zev's Expertise
2 Sand Stragler
2 Fling
2 Chandra's Defeat
1 Insult // Injury
3 Torment of Scarabs
3 Magma Spray
Card choices explanations:
The main cards are in the deck are the original ones that I used until now so here's the explanation for the new cards added to the deck:
2 Ammit Eternal - I've already explained that dropping a 5/5 for only 3 mana of which you only need 1 black mana means it's splashable and it makes a good and solid blocker for the turn it comes into play while I hit with the other creatures.
1 Scorpion God - I'm just testing him because it may work to deal with some small creatures and of course in the mirror match it can kill a lot of 1 toughness critters, aside from that it's a solid 6/5 body for 5 mana with a very good ability.
2 Cut//Ribbons - This is the main reason I wanted to go the black way, I really like cut to deal with opposing blockers before I hit with my creatures and of course ribbons is an amazing finisher late game.
2 Abrade - These are maindeck for now but after Ixalan comes out they'll be going to the sideboard since I'll have other burn cards maindeck instead.
3 Unlicensed Disintegration - I feel these are amazing in this type of aggro deck where all you have is creatures and creature killing cards. It would be great to take out big creatures to pave the way for my guys to attack and it's also another reason why I decided to splash black.
As for lands, once Ixalan is out I will take out 4 mountains and put in the B/R dual land instead and that's about the only change I'm planning to do.
Sideboard:
Most of the cards are the same but these are the new cards I'll be testing.
2 Sand Stragler - I will be testing this in the mirror match or creature heavy decks which will probably be around after Ixalan is legal.
3 Torment of Scarabs - for combo decks or control or grindy decks where creatures are not enough to win with, also it would be awesome to see my opp's face when they see this come in during the 2nd game. They will probably be prepared to deal with creatures and they will probably not have anything to deal with enchantments and this one will slowly kill my opp or even kill them even faster than usual.
Let me know what you think, once Ixalan comes out some of the cards will change but probably not much as the deck is outstanding as it is right now.