I took down FNM last night, and split a box and a half with the other finalist. I handily beat him in pools, so I only intentionally drew to get home early. I was very confident against an unknown field with the variant I put together. This is the second consecutive week playing UW Control into a position tied for first, and I've been quite happy with the switch over from UB/Esper control shells. The list:
As a U/W control MASTER I am quite concerned with your lack of threats or win conditions. I have my own build of U/W control and my win conditions right now are 3 Keftnet, 2 Sphinx of the Final Word and 2 Approach of the second sun. The approaches win me most of the games actually. You have a lot more removal than me, but I have more counters which has worked fro me quite well. Anyways, I'm waiting for more info about Hour of Devastation cards so I can add some other creatures as win conditions or some other cards to clear the board.
I also don't like censor at all, I've cut them all out of the deck and prefer to run 4 Essence Scatters, 3 Negates, 2 Void Shatters, 2 Disallows, 2 Failure/Comply and 1 Commit/Memory.
The 3 casting cost counters played now are disallow and void shatter, the latter which will leave standard in September. After that I think Supreme will can be played in every blue control deck.
Until then I'm still playing a mix of the other two. I have glimmer and pull to get cards but looking 4 cards deep will speed up my second approach of the second sun, so I may have to fit 2-3 Supreme will in the deck and move void shatters to the sideboard.
After looking around for a budget standard deck to play I saw a couple of threads talking about a mono-red deck that can fight the big boys. So, after a lot of reading and card searching, I put a madness type deck and a more aggro deck together to come up with this baby, which I named Sid Vicious. On to the decklist:
The deck is quite fast and usually by the time I cast everything in my hand the opponent is dead.
Tonight I took it to a local store to play in the Standard Showdown tournament and went 3-0 with this deck to win first place. Here is the match info:
Round 1 - vs. Red/Black aggro 2-1
He played a bomat courier aggro deck but I didn't see much else in the first game since he was stuck on 3 lands and so was I but I kept casting creatures almost every turn after the 3rd and took the game. In the 2nd game I got mana flooded and didn't draw enough creatures so he beat me. In the 3rd game he got mana flooded so I ran him over by curving out perfectly.
Round 2 - vs. Red/White Humans 2-0
He played a few small humans which got burned by me, then I started to drop creatures on turn 4 and won the first game easily. In the second game he got mana screwed so I ran him over by curving out.
Round 3 - vs R/U Enigma Drake discard 2-0
In the first game he used a couple of burn spells on my first two creatures to come out and then he was out of spells by turn 3, he cast an enigma drake but I killed it with a lightning axe, and the turn after that he cast another which also got killed by an axe, he had no blockers so he died soon after. In the second game he got a drake out quickly that was an 8/4 by turn 3 but since the toughness is only 4 it died to my lightning axe again, and next turn he cast another drake which died to a madnessed Avancyn's Judgment and he died to my creatures attack the very same turn.
So, I didn't play against any tier 1 decks and also the players were not the best at piloting their own decks but I did win almost every game comfortably, including winning with only 3 lands in play in one game, and mulliganing to 6 on the play and still winning that game as well.
MVP's in this deck were:
lightning axe - cleared the road of blockers so my guys can go through ahn-crop crasher- better in constructed than in limited, stopped my opponent's creatures from blocking glorybringer- just for being himself avacyn's judgment - got madnessed for 4 damage to kill a blocker so my guys can go through sunscorched desert - very underrated card in an aggro deck, did 3 damage in one game where out of 5 lands I had 3 deserts and 2 mountains.
Everything in this deck is a threat, and the best part is that no card is useless, even if you draw lands after the first 5 and you don't need to use them you can always pitch them to another card. Also, late game almost anything you draw is a great topdeck with a lot of hasted creatures and burn.
If you want to piss off some people at your local store give this deck a try for FNM or Standard Showdown and let me know how it did, I will probably give it another go at the next Standard Showdown tourney and see how it fares again. It is also kind of a budget deck coming in at under $50 since the manabase is as cheap and can be and the only $5 rares are the play set of Glorybringers, the other rares being in the dollar range.
Need the red desert land in my mono red deck, the cycling will help late game and it fits with the desert theme of my deck, I'm already running 4 Sunscorched Deserts in it.
This deck is driving me insane, all the exileing gets around dread and scrapheap recursion, i cant defend against it with supernatural stamina, i dont anything that i could side in for it, what is this decks weakness, my local meta is VERY heavy in it, i need to know how to beat this deck, im an aggro player and i got to beat them fast, because turn 6 they just drop a gearhulk and win,
Please help me
What deck are you playing? UR control is weak against a lot of small creatures, creatures with hexproof and manlands. So if you have a combination of those in your deck then you will be able to beat it. If you run blue then having a few negates or dispels in your board to go against them will also work, and of course remember that Gearhulk is an ARTIFACT so it dies to very cheap artifact removal cards.
If you are playing mono-black as it sounds like then just play more hand removal cards like transgress the mind and even disposses. You can disposses for a Torrential Gearhulk.
I'm surprised that so many people don't remember that all Gearhulks are artifact creatures so they can get killed very cheaply with artifact removal. So if you're playing black then hand destruction cards are your best bet, and play Never//Return or splash red for some artifact removal cards, or splash white/green also for artifact removal cards!
This is what I'm testing for FNM in real life, it is kind of a budget deck especially if you choose not to run the Glorybringers, then the deck is about $30 IRL. The deck has some cool synergies going around and can win out of nowhere, it can get started on turn 2 and keep hitting hard until the opponent is dead.
Injury is a 3cmc sorcery that can only be cast from a graveyard. I don't see how that even close to being comparable to a 1 cmc instant in your hand.
I was being facetious, of course, I don't need Shock, it doesn't fit in the deck, there's nothing to take out to put them in. My main point is that the land's ability can't be countered and it may also be unexpected by the opponent when you play the land for the first time.
This is what I'm testing for FNM right now, it's a budget deck but I think it can put up quite a fight. It looks kind of clunky on paper but it can have some awesome draws, clear the hand by turn 4 and hit really hard. The best part is that it has game after turn 4 due to the 3 embalm manticores, as well as the 6 hasted creatures that you can topdeck and the insult//injury deal.
The reason the Sunscorched deserts are in there is to add the extra points of life loss, I hate how aggro decks always manage to get the opp down to 1 or 2 life and then stall, so with this land it will be easy to finish them off.
I'm waiting to receive my (card) glorybringer (/card) play set and then I'll take out the 3 flameblade adepts and put the 3 dragons in.
The adepts don't do much and I don't need them on the first or second turn, after some play testing.
I'm playing a budget U/W control deck, you can see it in the budget forum but I don't get what is the point of Dovin Baan. I have one but haven't found a space for him main deck. My finishers of choice are 2 Sphinxes of the last word, 2 Regal Caracals and 1 Sphinx of Magosi and last but not least 2 Approach of the second sun.
I need to survive to win with Approach most of the time so that's why I'm playing the Regal Caracals to fill the board out against creature decks. However I do want to buy 2 Kefnets and play those instead of the Regal Caracals main deck. Just a note that Sphinx of the final word is a BOMB main deck and it has won me many games as well as making sure I can cast the 2nd Approach without fear of it being countered.
How's your guys sideboard like?
This is mine right now:
2 Fumigate (against non-counter creature decks)
2 Immolating Glare (against creature decks)
2 Dispel (against counter decks)
2 Forsake the worldly (against decks with artifacts including those with T. Gearhulks)
2 Vizier of many faces (against creature decks or control decks)
2 Horribly Awry (against creature decks)
1 Commit/Memory (against decks running planeswalkers)
1 Sphinx of the final word (against counter decks, mirror match, U/R, etc...)
1 Insidious Will (just testing this, haven't used it yet in a game) - no idea what I can copy...still thinking about it.
So, I managed to make it to FNM this week, playing my second tourney in 8 years (the first was last weekend's Amonkhet game day).
I went 2-1 with the decklist in post #12.
The one main deck difference was I took out the 1 vizier of many faces for a sphinx of magosi and in the sideboard I took out the 1 Dovin Baan and 1 Confiscation coup for 1 Vizier of many faces and 1 Insidious Will. I am still testing various budget cards.
TOURNEY REPORT
Round 1 against U/R control - 2-1
I lost the first game to this netdeck U/R control due to his lands, the 2 wandering fumarole got me good. We fought a long 2nd game and I managed to win on the back of an approach of the second sun. We scrambled to play the 3rd game with 10 minutes left on the clock and I took care of his torrential gearhulks and managed to get down a sphinx of the final word and cast an approach twice with the sphinx on the board.
Round 2 against B/G energy - 0-2
I got run over both games without drawing an engulf the shore either game, the deck was just too fast and also I didn't get to counter much since my hands were full of high casting cost spells both games, it was weird.
Round 3 against U/B eldrazi-aggro - 2-1
I lost the first game since I didn'T know what his deck did and I countered some eldrazi guys but the ones that stuck on the board beat me down. Second game had me counter the first 6-7 spells that he played and he was out of cards almost when I dropped a sphinx of the final word and beat him down with it. In the third game I managed to get an approach of the second sun out, and then made a mistake which let him drop 2 big eldrazi guys and pump them up with a land and hit me for 14 the next turn. However, I topdecked my 8th island and managed to Engulf the shores for 8 on my main phase bouncing his huge eldrazi guys. On his turn, he played one eldrazi guy again and end of turn I pulled from tomorrow for 4, then I cycled a land and on my draw step I drew approach of the second sun for the second time and cast it to win the 3rd game.
MVP's of this FNM:
1. Approach of the second sun (I won 3 games out of 4 because of it)
2. Sphinx of the final word (I won one game with him and he is amazing against control or decks running some counters)
3. Engulf the shores (saved me from two big Eldrazi creatures, also bounced 2 gearhulks against U/R)
4. Failure/Comply (good hard counter early game and even late game it's better than censor, comply is bomb against counter decks if you remember to flash it back.)
5. Essence scatter (I cast 3 of these in a row against the eldrazi deck, basically countering his first 6-7 plays with these and the other counters)
Cards that didn't do much:
1. Regal Caracal - only came out once, I am waiting to get 2 kefnets and switch them with the cat lord and test that out
2. Fumigate - I sided them in but didn't draw them, of course, they are still good in the sideboard.
The deck is looking better than before, although still has trouble with fast creature decks. I am planning to change the win conditions to 3 Sphinx of the final word, 2 Kefnets and of course the 2 Approach of the second sun. I will run 2 regal caracals and 2 vizier of many faces in the sideboard.
The main thing your deck needs is more lands. the #1 rule of playing control is to hit your land drops every single turn. Because of that, you probably want to have 26 lands in your deck instead of your current 23.
I still think you should be playing mono-blue. If you aren't playing Fumigate in the main anymore, then there's no real reason to play white. Bounce works just as good as removal. There's also cards like Imprison in the Moon that can handle pesky resolved creatures and planeswalkers. And there are plenty of blue win-cons in standard that you shouldn't have to lean on white.
I also think you should add some more card draw in the deck. Hieroglyphic Illumination is a great choice since you can also cycle it when the occasional mana screw happens.
My deck has 25 lands and I think that's enough, I've played U/W control decks before, a long time ago but still I've never needed more than 25 lands.
So, I played on the Amonkhet game day event last Saturday and I went a horrendous 1-3-1 out of the 5 rounds played and finished on the 15th spot out of maybe 27 players.
First of all, my last magic tournament was back in the summer of 2009, and I also haven't played any magic games for the past 4-5 years, even in a casual environment. I played 2-3 times last month only just to remember how to play the game, the steps, the stack and refresh my memory with the new cards in standard, also the new rules that have been changed in the last 7 years or so.
Second of all, I didn't get to playtest live with anyone, so all I did is playtest by myself to see how I would play the first 3-4 turns of a game and also I've watched a lot of Youtube videos of people playing other decks in the format so I would know the potential decks I will face and the cards in them. I know pretty much all the cards in Amonkhet but outside of a limited event that doesn't do me much good since I don't know the cards in the other sets that are in standard now. The reason that is a bigger problem than normal is because I live in Tokyo but I can't read Japanese, and all of my opponents were Japanese and they owned Japanese cards, so if I can't recognize the card by the art then I have no idea what the card actually does.
Third of all it was my first time playing a tourney at this store, and first time playing a tourney in Tokyo so I had no idea what the decks being played in standard are and if the people here like to play netdecks or build their own decks.
Phew, now with all the excuses out of the way here is a mini tourney report for this budget deck. I played pretty much the list posted above but at the end of this report I will post the new and updated list with the changes I made after playing the 5 rounds tourney. I do want to keep this to be a budget deck under $100 so I can't add Torrential Gearhulks, Gideons or any other expensive rare to the deck as a finisher since that will take the deck over $100 real fast.
TOURNEY REPORT
Round 1 - against U/W control with Gideon and Avacyn - 1-2
I won the first game quick due to playing a maindeck sphinx of the last word and then playing approach twice behind it. Not a surprise since my deck is built do beat the mirror match in the first game. Second and third games I lost due to my opponent playing selfless spirit and archangel avacyn beatdown and I got stuck on 4 lands in the second game and on 3 lands in the third game. If I didn't get stuck on lands both games I might have been able to win either the 2nd or 3rd game but once the opponent had a creature out to beat me with he stayed back holding counters so I was toast.
Round 2 - against Mardu vehicles (gideon)- 0-2
I lost these 2 games fast, he beat my deck, I didn't get mana screwed but he just beat me with his deck that had too many threats for my answers. In the second game I did a desperation move of casting memory from my graveyard to fill my hand up but I still couldn't find an answer to all his threats.
Round 3 - against R/B madness - 2-0
In the first game we both got stuck on 3 lands for maybe 4 turns, he beat me down with a 1/1 artifact guy that exiles cards when he attacks and then he can put them in his hand, but when he tried to sac the creature to do that I disallowed the effect so he discarded his hand and didn't get any cards either. I also won this game by casting approach twice.
In the second game I beat him down with cat tokens, I got regal caracal down and beat him, then when he got a big creature out I cast engulf the shores and got my cat back, then re-cast the cat and make tokens, block and so on and beat him down to 0 with the cats.
Round 4 = against B/G/R GOD energy (hazoret/rhonas) 0-2
I had a good draw in the first game but I lost to the two gods, Hazoret and Rhonas. I didn't get to counter them, they are indestructible so immolating glare does nothing against them and I didn't get to engulf the shores either. In the second game he beat me down with a 3/3 creature that he got out on the 3rd turn and I wasn't able to counter it and then I couldn't draw an answer to it for the next 3 turns and so I lost.
Round 5 - against U/W/B control (kefnet/sorin) 1-1-1
Another mirror match and in the first game I beat him due to the maindeck sphinx of the final word again. In the second game he boarded kefnet and got him out on turn 3 and basically beat me down for 5 for enough turns to win, I had no answer to a resolved kefnet since immolating glare doesn't work on it, and the opp protected him with counters against other cards. In the 3rd game we timed out, he had Sorin out twice but I got rid of him, I kept trying to beat him down with westvale abbey 1/1 cleric tokens and hoping to get enough to transform the land which I did but only in the last turn for the 5 turns max.
Cards that were MVP's in the deck:
1. Declaration in Stone
2. Engulf the shore
3. Failure/Comply
4. Approach of the second sun
5. Sphinx of the final word
Cards that I didn't draw or did nothing in most of the games:
So, the games I lost aside from the first round mana screw game 2 and 3 were all lost to either a Planeswalker or some big creature/god. I believe against the Mardu deck I also lost to a resolved Gideon and due to not drawing either of my cast outs that I boarded in game 2 there was not much I could do against the planeswalker.
Because Gideon is indestructible, or when Avacyn comes into play it makes all creatures also indestructible and the gods are the same I realized that immolating glare or fumigate are nigh useless against those decks. What does work is declaration in stone and engulf the shores .
So, I am thinking of playing engulf the shores as a 4 of main deck and 2 declarations in stone as well and keeping fumigates and immolating glares in the sideboard against zombies or other decks that are not running many gods/planeswalkers. Engulf lets me bounce the gods/planeswalkers to their hand on their own turn so that I may be able to counter them when they try to play them again.
failure has worked great in the deck as well, it is pretty much a hard counter on turn 2 or turn 3. I need answers to gods/planeswalkers so I have decided to go back to 3 cast out main deck. Censor did nothing for me, I pretty much cycled them 90% of the time and I think I only cast them once or twice during the whole tournament and so they are out. Instead, I will be running 4 essence scatters because they can hit a target in every deck, and I would've probably won some games if I was able to counter a creature instead of cycling censor and not getting a counter out of the draw.
I need to keep the finishers cheap and I was quite surprised as were my opponents with regal caracal forcing them to play around the card and allowing me to chump block a few times, gain some life from the cats and then bounce the mommy back to my hand to cast it next turn and make more cats. It also won me game 2 against the R/B deck and kept me alive against another deck.
One last note, I do want to keep the deck under $100, so I don't want to buy Torrential Gearhulks or Gideons to put in the deck, also Archangel Avacyn will rotate out in September so I don't want to invest money in that. I was looking at either getting two Kefnet's as finishers and card draw or a couple of angel of sanctions but for now I'll try to finish people with the Sphinx and the cats or just stall until I can cast approach.
My opponents all played some form of a net deck, except for the U/W control and the U/W/B control decks and they all had more expensive decks than mine as well, with all having Planeswalkers in their decks except for the G/B/R energy deck that played Rhonas and Hazoret.
So, basically the deck's win conditions are the 2 Glyph Keepers or the 2 Sphinx of the final word. The alternate win conditions are 2 Approach of the second sun and 1 Westvale Abbey.
I think approach is doable and it works very well with Failure/Comply, once I have 9 mana I can cast approach and failure it in the same turn, and basically cast it again next turn for the win.
Also the Memory part of Commit/Memory works with approach too, if someone counters the first approach and it goes to the graveyard I can cast memory and shuffle all my graveyard and hand into my library and draw 7 and thus having a high chance of drawing approach again, hell, I may even want to counter my own approach if I have memory in the graveyard.
It should also mess around with graveyard decks, once they put some cards in their graveyard I can engulf the shore at the end of turn, and then on my turn cast memory and have them go to 0 cards in their graveyard basically restarting their whole plan.
I also like Failure/Comply because the failure part buys me a turn and acts like a hard counter on turn 2 or turn 3 since they won't be able to re-cast their card again during that turn.
The way the deck is built it should win the first game against a control/counter match up, and after side boarding in the 3 dispels and 3 cast outs and taking out the 3 essence scatters, 2 engulf the shores and 1 immolating glare the match up should be even better.
I'm more worried about aggro that's why I want to have a lot of 2 to cast counters, such as 3 essence flare, 2 failure/comply, 3 censors so I can counter their 2nd or 3rd turn plays. Then I have some 3 casting cost counters and if they get something out I can use immolating glare, or commit or if they have more than 1 creature then I can engulf the shores.
After sideboarding I will put in the 2 horribly awry, the 3 regal caracals, 2 viziers, 1 dovin baan and 2 cast out. I can take out the 2 sphinxes of the final word, 1 approach of the second sun, 2 failure/comply, 1 commit/memory, 2 engulf the shores and 2 void shatters .
Due to zombies becoming popular and the fact that they make a lot of tokens and use doubles of the same creature named card I put 2 declaration in stone in the main deck to keep that in check.
Actually, you could go to Mono Blue, then you can play with engulf the shore and really cut down the budget of the deck. Lands are expensive, but basic Islands are cheap! The only thing you'd really be missing out on is killing a few creatures, which really isn't a big deal. There are plenty of good creature counters like Essence Scatter and Horribly Awry. With Engulf, you can get a 2nd bite at countering any creatures you miss. I personally don't think white adds so much to the strategy that it's worth adding the extra expense.
Yeah, I know what you mean, but here's some reasons for UW.
1. I am much more comfortable playing a UW deck especially having the fumigate (fake ***) in the deck since I am kind of used to mass killing creatures.
2. I really love the idea of bringing Regal Caracal in the second game and comboing it with Vizier of Many Faces for some cat beatdown that the opponent will probably not expect.
3. I actually think the deck with white is a lot more stable than just a pure blue mono deck, and white also gives me more creature removel as well as Cast Out to get rid of Planeswalkers, since I'm not running Gearhulks to attack into the planeswalkers I really need something else to get rid of them.
Aside from that I've been checking out the other threads in Standard about UW, (I went to bed at 2am last night due to reading deck threads) and I was pleasantly surprised to see other people play the Glyph Keeper as a win con, and also approach of the second sun in the sideboard.
I guess those are going to have to be tested, I will stick to UW but maybe work on the decklist a bit more so I don't have so many 2's of one card.
As a U/W control MASTER I am quite concerned with your lack of threats or win conditions. I have my own build of U/W control and my win conditions right now are 3 Keftnet, 2 Sphinx of the Final Word and 2 Approach of the second sun. The approaches win me most of the games actually. You have a lot more removal than me, but I have more counters which has worked fro me quite well. Anyways, I'm waiting for more info about Hour of Devastation cards so I can add some other creatures as win conditions or some other cards to clear the board.
I also don't like censor at all, I've cut them all out of the deck and prefer to run 4 Essence Scatters, 3 Negates, 2 Void Shatters, 2 Disallows, 2 Failure/Comply and 1 Commit/Memory.
Until then I'm still playing a mix of the other two. I have glimmer and pull to get cards but looking 4 cards deep will speed up my second approach of the second sun, so I may have to fit 2-3 Supreme will in the deck and move void shatters to the sideboard.
After looking around for a budget standard deck to play I saw a couple of threads talking about a mono-red deck that can fight the big boys. So, after a lot of reading and card searching, I put a madness type deck and a more aggro deck together to come up with this baby, which I named Sid Vicious. On to the decklist:
17 Mountain
4 Sunscorched Desert
Creatures(26)
3 Heart-piercer Manticore
4 Glorybringer
4 Lathnu Hellion
3 Furyblade Vampire
2 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Ahn-crop Crasher
2 Combat Celebrant
4 Battlefield Scavenger
2 Avacyn's Judgment
3 Harnessed Lightning
1 Insult // Injury
3 Lightning Axe
4 Fiery Temper
3 Kari Zev's Expertise
2 Destructive Tampering
2 Fling
3 Harsh Mentor
2 By Force
3 Magma Spray
The deck is quite fast and usually by the time I cast everything in my hand the opponent is dead.
Tonight I took it to a local store to play in the Standard Showdown tournament and went 3-0 with this deck to win first place. Here is the match info:
Round 1 - vs. Red/Black aggro 2-1
He played a bomat courier aggro deck but I didn't see much else in the first game since he was stuck on 3 lands and so was I but I kept casting creatures almost every turn after the 3rd and took the game. In the 2nd game I got mana flooded and didn't draw enough creatures so he beat me. In the 3rd game he got mana flooded so I ran him over by curving out perfectly.
Round 2 - vs. Red/White Humans 2-0
He played a few small humans which got burned by me, then I started to drop creatures on turn 4 and won the first game easily. In the second game he got mana screwed so I ran him over by curving out.
Round 3 - vs R/U Enigma Drake discard 2-0
In the first game he used a couple of burn spells on my first two creatures to come out and then he was out of spells by turn 3, he cast an enigma drake but I killed it with a lightning axe, and the turn after that he cast another which also got killed by an axe, he had no blockers so he died soon after. In the second game he got a drake out quickly that was an 8/4 by turn 3 but since the toughness is only 4 it died to my lightning axe again, and next turn he cast another drake which died to a madnessed Avancyn's Judgment and he died to my creatures attack the very same turn.
So, I didn't play against any tier 1 decks and also the players were not the best at piloting their own decks but I did win almost every game comfortably, including winning with only 3 lands in play in one game, and mulliganing to 6 on the play and still winning that game as well.
MVP's in this deck were:
lightning axe - cleared the road of blockers so my guys can go through
ahn-crop crasher- better in constructed than in limited, stopped my opponent's creatures from blocking
glorybringer- just for being himself
avacyn's judgment - got madnessed for 4 damage to kill a blocker so my guys can go through
sunscorched desert - very underrated card in an aggro deck, did 3 damage in one game where out of 5 lands I had 3 deserts and 2 mountains.
Everything in this deck is a threat, and the best part is that no card is useless, even if you draw lands after the first 5 and you don't need to use them you can always pitch them to another card. Also, late game almost anything you draw is a great topdeck with a lot of hasted creatures and burn.
If you want to piss off some people at your local store give this deck a try for FNM or Standard Showdown and let me know how it did, I will probably give it another go at the next Standard Showdown tourney and see how it fares again. It is also kind of a budget deck coming in at under $50 since the manabase is as cheap and can be and the only $5 rares are the play set of Glorybringers, the other rares being in the dollar range.
Thanks!
What deck are you playing? UR control is weak against a lot of small creatures, creatures with hexproof and manlands. So if you have a combination of those in your deck then you will be able to beat it. If you run blue then having a few negates or dispels in your board to go against them will also work, and of course remember that Gearhulk is an ARTIFACT so it dies to very cheap artifact removal cards.
If you are playing mono-black as it sounds like then just play more hand removal cards like transgress the mind and even disposses. You can disposses for a Torrential Gearhulk.
I'm surprised that so many people don't remember that all Gearhulks are artifact creatures so they can get killed very cheaply with artifact removal. So if you're playing black then hand destruction cards are your best bet, and play Never//Return or splash red for some artifact removal cards, or splash white/green also for artifact removal cards!
3 Sunscorched Desert
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
3 Heart-piercer Manticore
3 Glorybringer
2 Stromkirk Occultist
3 Lathnu Hellion
3 Furyblade Vampire
2 Bloodrage Brawler
3 Ahn-crop Crasher
3 Bloodmad Vampire
3 Battlefield Scavenger
3 Magma Spray
2 Insult // Injury
3 Lightning Axe
4 Fiery Temper
2 Wrangle
3 Destructive Tampering
2 Fling
3 Harsh Mentor
2 By Force
I was being facetious, of course, I don't need Shock, it doesn't fit in the deck, there's nothing to take out to put them in. My main point is that the land's ability can't be countered and it may also be unexpected by the opponent when you play the land for the first time.
I'm running injury instead!
This is what I'm testing for FNM right now, it's a budget deck but I think it can put up quite a fight. It looks kind of clunky on paper but it can have some awesome draws, clear the hand by turn 4 and hit really hard. The best part is that it has game after turn 4 due to the 3 embalm manticores, as well as the 6 hasted creatures that you can topdeck and the insult//injury deal.
The reason the Sunscorched deserts are in there is to add the extra points of life loss, I hate how aggro decks always manage to get the opp down to 1 or 2 life and then stall, so with this land it will be easy to finish them off.
3 Sunscorched Desert
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
3 Heart-piercer Manticore
3 Flameblade Adept
2 Stromkirk Occultist
3 Lathnu Hellion
3 Furyblade Vampire
2 Bloodrage Brawler
3 Ahn-crop Crasher
3 Bloodmad Vampire
3 Battlefield scavenger
3 Magma spray
2 Insult // Injury
3 Lightning Axe
4 Fiery Temper
2 Wrangle
3 Destructive Tampering
2 Fling
3 Harsh Mentor
2 By Force
I'm waiting to receive my (card) glorybringer (/card) play set and then I'll take out the 3 flameblade adepts and put the 3 dragons in.
The adepts don't do much and I don't need them on the first or second turn, after some play testing.
I need to survive to win with Approach most of the time so that's why I'm playing the Regal Caracals to fill the board out against creature decks. However I do want to buy 2 Kefnets and play those instead of the Regal Caracals main deck. Just a note that Sphinx of the final word is a BOMB main deck and it has won me many games as well as making sure I can cast the 2nd Approach without fear of it being countered.
How's your guys sideboard like?
This is mine right now:
2 Fumigate (against non-counter creature decks)
2 Immolating Glare (against creature decks)
2 Dispel (against counter decks)
2 Forsake the worldly (against decks with artifacts including those with T. Gearhulks)
2 Vizier of many faces (against creature decks or control decks)
2 Horribly Awry (against creature decks)
1 Commit/Memory (against decks running planeswalkers)
1 Sphinx of the final word (against counter decks, mirror match, U/R, etc...)
1 Insidious Will (just testing this, haven't used it yet in a game) - no idea what I can copy...still thinking about it.
I went 2-1 with the decklist in post #12.
The one main deck difference was I took out the 1 vizier of many faces for a sphinx of magosi and in the sideboard I took out the 1 Dovin Baan and 1 Confiscation coup for 1 Vizier of many faces and 1 Insidious Will. I am still testing various budget cards.
TOURNEY REPORT
Round 1 against U/R control - 2-1
I lost the first game to this netdeck U/R control due to his lands, the 2 wandering fumarole got me good. We fought a long 2nd game and I managed to win on the back of an approach of the second sun. We scrambled to play the 3rd game with 10 minutes left on the clock and I took care of his torrential gearhulks and managed to get down a sphinx of the final word and cast an approach twice with the sphinx on the board.
Round 2 against B/G energy - 0-2
I got run over both games without drawing an engulf the shore either game, the deck was just too fast and also I didn't get to counter much since my hands were full of high casting cost spells both games, it was weird.
Round 3 against U/B eldrazi-aggro - 2-1
I lost the first game since I didn'T know what his deck did and I countered some eldrazi guys but the ones that stuck on the board beat me down. Second game had me counter the first 6-7 spells that he played and he was out of cards almost when I dropped a sphinx of the final word and beat him down with it. In the third game I managed to get an approach of the second sun out, and then made a mistake which let him drop 2 big eldrazi guys and pump them up with a land and hit me for 14 the next turn. However, I topdecked my 8th island and managed to Engulf the shores for 8 on my main phase bouncing his huge eldrazi guys. On his turn, he played one eldrazi guy again and end of turn I pulled from tomorrow for 4, then I cycled a land and on my draw step I drew approach of the second sun for the second time and cast it to win the 3rd game.
MVP's of this FNM:
1. Approach of the second sun (I won 3 games out of 4 because of it)
2. Sphinx of the final word (I won one game with him and he is amazing against control or decks running some counters)
3. Engulf the shores (saved me from two big Eldrazi creatures, also bounced 2 gearhulks against U/R)
4. Failure/Comply (good hard counter early game and even late game it's better than censor, comply is bomb against counter decks if you remember to flash it back.)
5. Essence scatter (I cast 3 of these in a row against the eldrazi deck, basically countering his first 6-7 plays with these and the other counters)
Cards that didn't do much:
1. Regal Caracal - only came out once, I am waiting to get 2 kefnets and switch them with the cat lord and test that out
2. Fumigate - I sided them in but didn't draw them, of course, they are still good in the sideboard.
The deck is looking better than before, although still has trouble with fast creature decks. I am planning to change the win conditions to 3 Sphinx of the final word, 2 Kefnets and of course the 2 Approach of the second sun. I will run 2 regal caracals and 2 vizier of many faces in the sideboard.
My deck has 25 lands and I think that's enough, I've played U/W control decks before, a long time ago but still I've never needed more than 25 lands.
The reason to play white is for declaration in stone and approach of the second sun p/card] which is one of the main win conditions of this deck. I also get access to cast out as well, which I didn't play main deck for game day but now I've put them back in. I will have 3 cast outs and 1 commit maindeck to deal with planeswalkers from now on, besides the four engulf the shores which can bounce Gideon if they make him a creature and also the counterspells can counter the planeswalkers.
I don't need more card draw either with four glimmers and two pull from tomorrow as well as being able to cycle the lands and cast outs.
I just didn't have enough answers for planeswalkers and gods main deck, that's why I lost the matches that I lost at game day.
So, I played on the Amonkhet game day event last Saturday and I went a horrendous 1-3-1 out of the 5 rounds played and finished on the 15th spot out of maybe 27 players.
First of all, my last magic tournament was back in the summer of 2009, and I also haven't played any magic games for the past 4-5 years, even in a casual environment. I played 2-3 times last month only just to remember how to play the game, the steps, the stack and refresh my memory with the new cards in standard, also the new rules that have been changed in the last 7 years or so.
Second of all, I didn't get to playtest live with anyone, so all I did is playtest by myself to see how I would play the first 3-4 turns of a game and also I've watched a lot of Youtube videos of people playing other decks in the format so I would know the potential decks I will face and the cards in them. I know pretty much all the cards in Amonkhet but outside of a limited event that doesn't do me much good since I don't know the cards in the other sets that are in standard now. The reason that is a bigger problem than normal is because I live in Tokyo but I can't read Japanese, and all of my opponents were Japanese and they owned Japanese cards, so if I can't recognize the card by the art then I have no idea what the card actually does.
Third of all it was my first time playing a tourney at this store, and first time playing a tourney in Tokyo so I had no idea what the decks being played in standard are and if the people here like to play netdecks or build their own decks.
Phew, now with all the excuses out of the way here is a mini tourney report for this budget deck. I played pretty much the list posted above but at the end of this report I will post the new and updated list with the changes I made after playing the 5 rounds tourney. I do want to keep this to be a budget deck under $100 so I can't add Torrential Gearhulks, Gideons or any other expensive rare to the deck as a finisher since that will take the deck over $100 real fast.
TOURNEY REPORT
Round 1 - against U/W control with Gideon and Avacyn - 1-2
I won the first game quick due to playing a maindeck sphinx of the last word and then playing approach twice behind it. Not a surprise since my deck is built do beat the mirror match in the first game. Second and third games I lost due to my opponent playing selfless spirit and archangel avacyn beatdown and I got stuck on 4 lands in the second game and on 3 lands in the third game. If I didn't get stuck on lands both games I might have been able to win either the 2nd or 3rd game but once the opponent had a creature out to beat me with he stayed back holding counters so I was toast.
Round 2 - against Mardu vehicles (gideon)- 0-2
I lost these 2 games fast, he beat my deck, I didn't get mana screwed but he just beat me with his deck that had too many threats for my answers. In the second game I did a desperation move of casting memory from my graveyard to fill my hand up but I still couldn't find an answer to all his threats.
Round 3 - against R/B madness - 2-0
In the first game we both got stuck on 3 lands for maybe 4 turns, he beat me down with a 1/1 artifact guy that exiles cards when he attacks and then he can put them in his hand, but when he tried to sac the creature to do that I disallowed the effect so he discarded his hand and didn't get any cards either. I also won this game by casting approach twice.
In the second game I beat him down with cat tokens, I got regal caracal down and beat him, then when he got a big creature out I cast engulf the shores and got my cat back, then re-cast the cat and make tokens, block and so on and beat him down to 0 with the cats.
Round 4 = against B/G/R GOD energy (hazoret/rhonas) 0-2
I had a good draw in the first game but I lost to the two gods, Hazoret and Rhonas. I didn't get to counter them, they are indestructible so immolating glare does nothing against them and I didn't get to engulf the shores either. In the second game he beat me down with a 3/3 creature that he got out on the 3rd turn and I wasn't able to counter it and then I couldn't draw an answer to it for the next 3 turns and so I lost.
Round 5 - against U/W/B control (kefnet/sorin) 1-1-1
Another mirror match and in the first game I beat him due to the maindeck sphinx of the final word again. In the second game he boarded kefnet and got him out on turn 3 and basically beat me down for 5 for enough turns to win, I had no answer to a resolved kefnet since immolating glare doesn't work on it, and the opp protected him with counters against other cards. In the 3rd game we timed out, he had Sorin out twice but I got rid of him, I kept trying to beat him down with westvale abbey 1/1 cleric tokens and hoping to get enough to transform the land which I did but only in the last turn for the 5 turns max.
Cards that were MVP's in the deck:
1. Declaration in Stone
2. Engulf the shore
3. Failure/Comply
4. Approach of the second sun
5. Sphinx of the final word
Cards that I didn't draw or did nothing in most of the games:
1. Censor
2. Immolating Glare
3. Fumigate
4. Glyph Keeper
So, having this tourney as my actual live testing ground this is how the deck looks like now:
4 Irrigated Farmland
2 Prairie Stream
14 Islands
1 Westvale abbey
2 Regal Caracal
2 Sphinx of the final word
1 Vizier of Many faces
2 Declaration in Stone
4 Engulf the Shore
2 Disallow
2 Void Shatter
4 Essence Scatter
3 Negate
1 Commit/Memory
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Pull from Tomorrow
2 Failure/Comply
3 Cast out
2 Approach of the second sun
1 Vizier of many faces
1 Dovin Baan
1 Sphinx of the final word
1 Confiscation Coup
1 Commit/Memory
2 Forsake the worldly
2 Immolating Glare
2 Fumigate
2 Horribly Awry
So, the games I lost aside from the first round mana screw game 2 and 3 were all lost to either a Planeswalker or some big creature/god. I believe against the Mardu deck I also lost to a resolved Gideon and due to not drawing either of my cast outs that I boarded in game 2 there was not much I could do against the planeswalker.
Because Gideon is indestructible, or when Avacyn comes into play it makes all creatures also indestructible and the gods are the same I realized that immolating glare or fumigate are nigh useless against those decks. What does work is declaration in stone and engulf the shores .
So, I am thinking of playing engulf the shores as a 4 of main deck and 2 declarations in stone as well and keeping fumigates and immolating glares in the sideboard against zombies or other decks that are not running many gods/planeswalkers. Engulf lets me bounce the gods/planeswalkers to their hand on their own turn so that I may be able to counter them when they try to play them again.
failure has worked great in the deck as well, it is pretty much a hard counter on turn 2 or turn 3. I need answers to gods/planeswalkers so I have decided to go back to 3 cast out main deck. Censor did nothing for me, I pretty much cycled them 90% of the time and I think I only cast them once or twice during the whole tournament and so they are out. Instead, I will be running 4 essence scatters because they can hit a target in every deck, and I would've probably won some games if I was able to counter a creature instead of cycling censor and not getting a counter out of the draw.
I need to keep the finishers cheap and I was quite surprised as were my opponents with regal caracal forcing them to play around the card and allowing me to chump block a few times, gain some life from the cats and then bounce the mommy back to my hand to cast it next turn and make more cats. It also won me game 2 against the R/B deck and kept me alive against another deck.
One last note, I do want to keep the deck under $100, so I don't want to buy Torrential Gearhulks or Gideons to put in the deck, also Archangel Avacyn will rotate out in September so I don't want to invest money in that. I was looking at either getting two Kefnet's as finishers and card draw or a couple of angel of sanctions but for now I'll try to finish people with the Sphinx and the cats or just stall until I can cast approach.
My opponents all played some form of a net deck, except for the U/W control and the U/W/B control decks and they all had more expensive decks than mine as well, with all having Planeswalkers in their decks except for the G/B/R energy deck that played Rhonas and Hazoret.
Thanks!
4 Irrigated Farmland
16 Islands
1 Westvale abbey
2 Glyph Keeper
2 Sphinx of the final word
2 Declaration in Stone
2 Engulf the Shore
2 Fumigate
3 Censor
2 Disallow
2 Void Shatter
3 Essence Scatter
2 Negate
2 Commit/Memory
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Pull from Tomorrow
2 Failure/Comply
2 Immolating Glare
2 Approach of the second sun
2 Vizier of many faces
3 Regal Caracal
2 Forsake the worldly
1 Fragmentize
3 Cast out
2 Horribly Awry
So, basically the deck's win conditions are the 2 Glyph Keepers or the 2 Sphinx of the final word. The alternate win conditions are 2 Approach of the second sun and 1 Westvale Abbey.
I think approach is doable and it works very well with Failure/Comply, once I have 9 mana I can cast approach and failure it in the same turn, and basically cast it again next turn for the win.
Also the Memory part of Commit/Memory works with approach too, if someone counters the first approach and it goes to the graveyard I can cast memory and shuffle all my graveyard and hand into my library and draw 7 and thus having a high chance of drawing approach again, hell, I may even want to counter my own approach if I have memory in the graveyard.
It should also mess around with graveyard decks, once they put some cards in their graveyard I can engulf the shore at the end of turn, and then on my turn cast memory and have them go to 0 cards in their graveyard basically restarting their whole plan.
I also like Failure/Comply because the failure part buys me a turn and acts like a hard counter on turn 2 or turn 3 since they won't be able to re-cast their card again during that turn.
The way the deck is built it should win the first game against a control/counter match up, and after side boarding in the 3 dispels and 3 cast outs and taking out the 3 essence scatters, 2 engulf the shores and 1 immolating glare the match up should be even better.
I'm more worried about aggro that's why I want to have a lot of 2 to cast counters, such as 3 essence flare, 2 failure/comply, 3 censors so I can counter their 2nd or 3rd turn plays. Then I have some 3 casting cost counters and if they get something out I can use immolating glare, or commit or if they have more than 1 creature then I can engulf the shores.
After sideboarding I will put in the 2 horribly awry, the 3 regal caracals, 2 viziers, 1 dovin baan and 2 cast out. I can take out the 2 sphinxes of the final word, 1 approach of the second sun, 2 failure/comply, 1 commit/memory, 2 engulf the shores and 2 void shatters .
Due to zombies becoming popular and the fact that they make a lot of tokens and use doubles of the same creature named card I put 2 declaration in stone in the main deck to keep that in check.
Thanks!
Yeah, I know what you mean, but here's some reasons for UW.
1. I am much more comfortable playing a UW deck especially having the fumigate (fake ***) in the deck since I am kind of used to mass killing creatures.
2. I really love the idea of bringing Regal Caracal in the second game and comboing it with Vizier of Many Faces for some cat beatdown that the opponent will probably not expect.
3. I actually think the deck with white is a lot more stable than just a pure blue mono deck, and white also gives me more creature removel as well as Cast Out to get rid of Planeswalkers, since I'm not running Gearhulks to attack into the planeswalkers I really need something else to get rid of them.
Aside from that I've been checking out the other threads in Standard about UW, (I went to bed at 2am last night due to reading deck threads) and I was pleasantly surprised to see other people play the Glyph Keeper as a win con, and also approach of the second sun in the sideboard.
I guess those are going to have to be tested, I will stick to UW but maybe work on the decklist a bit more so I don't have so many 2's of one card.