Coming back into building kiki chord. I've been trying other decks for fun the past few months but want to rebuild now.
Slow, I'm intrigued by the blue list or anything that helps with tron. Is your list the same as the one posted last month? If not, are you able to post a new list including sideboard? Thanks
Shalai seems like a very nice addition to the deck, I'll definitely be making room for her.
Played 3 Rounds in Friday FNM last week. Went 3-0 with UW Approach with Champions Main (4 Sunscourge, 2 Champion of Wits) against UW Approach (2-1), Mardu Vehicles (2-1), and Ramunap Red (2-0).
We obviously all feel that the hardest part of the game is the early game. I didn't think about putting in champions before going through this thread. The champions gain life, filter, and slow down the opponent. I understand that most lists run zero creatures to help leave your opponent's removal dead but I don't really care too much. It ties up their mana, slows down their plan and gets me closer to the cards I need.
I don't overly like Farm or Aether Meltdown but I haven't had the time to test the PT and GP lists with Harness Lightning and Fatal Push so right now I'm okay keeping my utility lands and having more untapped lands late in the game. I did really like farm but, as someone above mentioned, Skywhaler's Shot may be better. I didn't find too much time to Market but it could be practice. I overall just liked having removal at 2/3/4/5.
Round 1 vs Approach - I messed up game 1 by attacking with Gideon into a Settle with no protection. I don't know why I was in such a rush. Games two and three were super easy though bringing in all the creatures and negates and removing all removal except a Fumigate. It forced them to leave in removal for my creatures while I get to cut it all.
Round 2 vs Mardu - I lost game one to mana screw and he lost game two to Heart of Kiran flood. Game three was really good back and forth but I able to get Authority down turn one and another one a bit later. I like Authority in this matchup because it takes away the vehicle pseudo haste and helps with Scrapheap recursion. Got my Cast Outs on their Hazorets and eventually got there with more value.
Round 3 vs Ramunap Red (2 Ferocidon main) - Able to play 2 Sunscourge Champions and Eternalize 2 as well (discarded one to the other one). Winning game one was amazing. Game two was able to get an early Authority and ended the game with a second Regal Caracle.
The main card I wasn't too sure about was Gideon. He was good against Hazoret but more Cast Outs could've done the same. I'll keep him for now and see how it goes, but unsure what will happen.
Overall I was really happy with the list. I'll double check later for the last couple sideboard cards and to double check my numbers.
I agree with jpw - Pridemage is what you want main and Rec Sage in the side. When both cards are doing nothing in a matchup Qasali has much better stats (lower cmc, higher toughness). Then when you realize you need to kill artifacts and enchantments you can bring in the better card for that situation.
Other cards I like are Engineered Explosives if you are worried about affinity or lantern. I did not know about nullmage though - that's dedicated. Most of the matchups that are playing artifacts you can have four creatures pretty easily. Stony silence or ancient grudge are both spells you can use too.
JPW - I've been picking up the list again after playing Shadow for Birmingham and saw your two lists (PPTQ and 5-0). Do you have a preference on the changes? I'm not too much a fan of selfless spirit but don't really care about the fourth wall of omens either so I'm good either way on those two drops. The other change was glen elendra for eidolon if I remember - I'm assuming this is just meta dependant and you just have a "more than 15 card sideboard" where some hate cards fall into the main. Did you feel eidolon is worth it main. I was mixed on it a few months ago but always felt Glen Elendra to be a bit too niche for the main especially as a four drop. I feel that a third e wit is sometimes just nice to have in that spot. Either way I'm going to pick up your list for a month or so because I like it a lot! Good luck at the RPTQ!
It's been a week, but I played in GP Birmingham to a 10-5 finish with this list. After discussing the deck with a few people I changed 2 Fatal Push to 2 Lightning Bolt. That's the only real discussion from the main deck. For an average player with modest aspirations at a GP I don't think the difference really mattered. And actually for the matchups I played it was probably better than pushes.I think other than the mirror, eldrazi tron, and goyfs bolt is almost killing the same things that push does. There were at least three times I was able to use bolt to kill planeswalkers which allowed me to play another terminate in the board over a dreadbore.
I don't have the best memory but here's how I did:
No Byes - officially
Round One - W 2:0 - Standard Humans
Deck with standard format humans from a year ago. Nothing to say here. But pretty much a bye.
Round Two - W 2:0 - Abzan
Game one hard fight with multiple siege rhinos but able to close while at 2 life. Game two he has a bad hand and I win.
Round Three - W 2:1 - Abzan
Lost game one to a treetop village I didn't see. Able to use bolt to kill a scavenging ooze but it was dead in hand vs his goyf while I had a bigger shadow out. No souls in game 2/3 and I'm able to win.
Round Four - W 2:0 - Burn
Early delve threats both games able to put on pressure and take it away. End of game two I was at 6 and he had three land and a fetch while at 2. Any two spells kill me at my end step. He cracks fetch, I flash in a snapcaster targeting stub with just a fetch up (trying to get a reaction), he skull cracks me in response and I bolt for the win in response. His punt but I had to do something weird in order to give myself the chance of his misplay.
Round Five - L 0:2 - UWR Control with Quellers
I'm exhausted and misplay and lose (I said go ahead without attacking). Bolt plus snappy flashing in to kill Gideon.
Round Six - L 0:2 - Grixis Shadow
He blows me out with a Street Wraith game 1 on a Shadow vs Shadow battle. Game two he has the last threat.
Note that with all the Lilis running around we do want to keep some Stubborn Denials in post board.
Round Seven - W 2:1 - Lantern Control
Game one I lose big time. 3 Bridges out.
Game two - turn three delve threat with no bridge out and I win.
Game three - I have Angler and she can play bridge on three or ghost quarter herself to inquisition. Chooses the latter and inquisition and extracts all my k commands. Plays a bridge and I get a LotVeil out and ultimate (bridge vs everything else). She's at 8 and I'm at 12 with Angeler and Two Shadows. She keeps bridge, draws land, pithing needle (countered) and a two drop. So I can now attack with the shadows crack 2 fetches and get a shockland to get the kill.
Round Eight - L 1:2 - Grixis Shadow
Lose the mirror again. Nothing too special, but I need to pick up points on the mirror.
Round Nine - Win and In for Day Two - Esper Shadow (heart sinks) W: 2-1
Game one - lose against souls.
Game two - he plays Ranger of Eos for 2 Shadows (ugh). I have lili last hope out. He plays three shadows and I snap terminate his Ranger. Then proceed to Engineered Explosives all 3 Shadows away (woo!). The EE was for the souls but I'll take it.
Game three - I just draw great, get Lili out, explosives away a shadow, staticaster for souls!
Day Two - I'm tired so I'll just run down the score.
Round Ten - W 2:1 - Elves (He played worship which I think is wrong - one less threat to worry about)
Round Eleven - L 2:0 - UW Control (game 1 - 4 spreading seas and 2 tectonic edges)
Round Twelve - W 2:1 - Eldrazi Stompy (game three on the play I fetch, shock, and bolt myself. Play 2 shadows turn 2. He kills ones instead of playing a chalice. I play a third one and start to attack until I win)
Round Thirteen - W 2:0 - Affinity
Round Fourteen - L 0:2 - Titan Shift (game 1 I keep a very interactive hand blind - inquisition, push, snap, visions, 3 land - but not for shift)
Round Fifteen - W 2:1 - Dredge (I have a good hand game 2, nihil turn one. Followed by anger. Battle Raged Shadow. Game 3 his hand is the worse)
Overall, it felt fine having the two bolts. Helped killed two Gideons and a Lili. Also as a top deck against 3 mana elf creatures. Loved playing the deck but I think I'll take a break for now. I was just learning it for the GP.
Thanks everyone for all the resources - it was so helpful.
and3h
I agree, it's hard to nail down the last couple of cards. I'd like to play a bolt but I don't know how to fit it in. They are rarely a dead card.
But people much smarter than me keep playing 3 stubs main so I'm going to defer to them whether it is right or wrong. I don't have the hours to back up my appreciation for bolt. I can kill the cards i need to post board with sweepers if I can draw them.
I think cutting the crypt is better if you are moving away from anger of the gods. We are fetching watery grave x2 then blood crypt typically depending on the hand and everything else. But if you have 3 fetches you'll usually fetch that way.
Pros of keeping 12 fetches - doesn't reduce blue sources by 1. Still at 16 blue sources instead of 15 if you cut a fetch. Increases flexibility in putting the land in tapped or untapped because you can make that decision when you need to (comparing drawing the fetch or the shock). With the shock you have to make that decision before you know if you need to. The fetch allows you to control your life total better.
Thank you so much for all the responses to the burn summary. I reread page fifty as I had forgot about it. It sums up the matchup really well. I think all the feedback on this page should give anyone a well rounded view on the matchup and I really like the example of the game. Nice job Tasighoul.
Wow thanks for the help guys! I def am making too many silly mistakes like not fetching before Serum etc. Also I think I have been too caught up in those things like scrying, using GY, managing fetch/shock/life total, and not able to focus enough on Whos The Beatdown or even what my opponent is about to do in the coming turns..
Glad everyone could help out! This deck is quite a puzzle and you have to understand what you and your opponent are trying to do to win the game. Try to push your plan while stopping their plan. Try to spend time with a friend playing a matchup over and over until you have a gameplan for that matchup. You don't have to win every time but you do need to know how to play the matchup.
This deck is just hard. Thoughtseize is a difficult card to play, so is serum visions, so is fetching. Are we on the plan of attack with delve creatures or death's shadow?
Most matchups are unique and take deliberate practice to understand; I suggest understanding Affinity, the Mirror, Eldrazi Tron, Burn, and any other decks you are running into over online first. Then learn more matchups.
Start with burn as you know both sides of the matchup.
Who's the beatdown: Death Shadow is my vote!
What are some of our opponent's best cards against us: Eidolon of the Great Revel, Rift Bolt (it allows them to delay damage a turn so they can play many spells in one turn)
What's the opponent thinking: Since DS isn't a fast deck I have time to build up a critical mass of burn spells that I can play at the end of their turn, untap and do a bunch more. Let the DS player damage themselves and don't help them play get to under thirteen to play a shadow.
What's the sideboard plan: Worse cards in the matchup: Street Wraith, Kolaghan's Command, Terminate, Thoughtseize (that's 12 cards depending on the list)
What's the best cards in the sideboard: Stubborn Denial, Collective Brutality, Temur Battle Rage (3 - 6 cards depending on the list)
My sideboard plan right now (-4 Wraiths, -1 Kommand, +2 Stubborn Denial, +2 Collective Brutality, +1 Temur Battle Rage). I leave in Thoughtseize because Eidolon is very scary and I need to remove it from their hand)
What's the best cards in their sideboard: Path, RIP/other GY Hate, Deflecting Palm, Grim Lavamancer
What's their worse cards in the matchup: Searing Blaze, Skullcrack,
So if that's how this one matchup sort of works (my opinion of course). We need a hand that is both proactive (delve creatures are great here) and disruptive. We can't keep a hand of just cantrips and hope to figure it out. Now we have a good question when we look at our opening hand - do we have a threat and either discard or countermagic. From there you are giving yourself the best chance of winning the game. If you don't, that's okay. Why did we lose? Could we have won with the information we had? Could we have won if we had hidden information? Could we have inferred the hidden information?
Finally, and sorry to go on such a long thread, learn general rules. This deck does have a lot of "it depends" answers but crossing off some decision points automatically is quite helpful to learn when you shouldn't do them. Let me explain. When you have a choice in fetchlands turn one, it's better to leave Polluted Delta as the last card to fetch with. Why, because it's the only fetch that can get both basic island and swamp. Obvious I know, but now when we look at turn one we know we should play Bloodstained Mire or Scalding Tarn before a Polluted Delta.
Other basic rules to live by: Fetch before Serum Visions if you are going to need to fetch. It hurts when you shouldn't have but more often than not you should. Should you fetch + shock before serum visions. I mostly do unless I have a good reason not to.
The last section might not have been too clear but try to find out what decision points are coming up over and over and try to figure out what the most common decision is and when you should not make that decision.
Any more comments on the Burn matchup from anyone else would be helpful for me if there's more insight.
I can probably do another one of these tomorrow if it was helpful let me know.
Rec sage hitting enchantment is it's bonus.
How many enchantments are really bothering us lately that pridemage won't handle?
I'm thinking Detention Sphere, Worship, Phyrexian Unlife, (what am I missing that matters)
Manglehorn makes artifacts enter tapped.Which affects:
Slows Tron down from cycling stars / spheres. O stone. Expedition Map.
Affinity loses a blocker the turn they play it. Some lands come into play tapped.
Lantern pieces come into play tapped.
Any eggs deck loses mox opal usage the turn they come in. Same with lotus bloom.
I think I'm leaning towards rec sage since the benefits of manglehorn might not be something we are losing to all that much. The tron implications are the most appealing but I haven't seen that deck around lately.
Thanks for the update aggrosdemise - personally I'm working on Luda's list but don't mind watching the wall gaes at all. It helps because I don't have the time to understand why it works. I didn't watch the dredge game though. I think the formatting of the win/loss record was confusing though in the prior event going 3-1, but then putting the dredge loss as 2-1; try 1-2 to show.
Also, and not meaning to nitpick. But when you chorded for Elesh Norn you counted Spellskite as a defender so be careful when considering your defender count. What was the masterpiece you were playing? Staff maybe? How's that been as a manasink?
I'm trying to put a company list together for this weekend as I was having lots of trouble vs DS and UW Control. But I don't know if I can find Shaman's for it. Hopefully I can find them if not I'll run an extra voice, ooze. Not sure what else to swap in. Wall of omens doesn't sound too terrible to just draw a card - thoughts?
Would you leave in staticaster for elspeth tokens against UW? I was getting wrecked by attacking into condemn and blessed alliance - I'll play tighter this Sunday.
Also, have you tested out courser or tracker in the kiki deck and how did it work out?
I was testing it out to mixed results. Thought it was a bit slow and considering how mana hungry we are it is hard to find the time to spend it. But anytime I was able to play it on a stalled board it did it's job very well to pull ahead. I'm leaning towards not including it but wondering if anyone else has tried it out.
Slow, I'm intrigued by the blue list or anything that helps with tron. Is your list the same as the one posted last month? If not, are you able to post a new list including sideboard? Thanks
Shalai seems like a very nice addition to the deck, I'll definitely be making room for her.
Has damping sphere been good or unplayable?
Thanks
We obviously all feel that the hardest part of the game is the early game. I didn't think about putting in champions before going through this thread. The champions gain life, filter, and slow down the opponent. I understand that most lists run zero creatures to help leave your opponent's removal dead but I don't really care too much. It ties up their mana, slows down their plan and gets me closer to the cards I need.
I don't overly like Farm or Aether Meltdown but I haven't had the time to test the PT and GP lists with Harness Lightning and Fatal Push so right now I'm okay keeping my utility lands and having more untapped lands late in the game. I did really like farm but, as someone above mentioned, Skywhaler's Shot may be better. I didn't find too much time to Market but it could be practice. I overall just liked having removal at 2/3/4/5.
Round 1 vs Approach - I messed up game 1 by attacking with Gideon into a Settle with no protection. I don't know why I was in such a rush. Games two and three were super easy though bringing in all the creatures and negates and removing all removal except a Fumigate. It forced them to leave in removal for my creatures while I get to cut it all.
Round 2 vs Mardu - I lost game one to mana screw and he lost game two to Heart of Kiran flood. Game three was really good back and forth but I able to get Authority down turn one and another one a bit later. I like Authority in this matchup because it takes away the vehicle pseudo haste and helps with Scrapheap recursion. Got my Cast Outs on their Hazorets and eventually got there with more value.
Round 3 vs Ramunap Red (2 Ferocidon main) - Able to play 2 Sunscourge Champions and Eternalize 2 as well (discarded one to the other one). Winning game one was amazing. Game two was able to get an early Authority and ended the game with a second Regal Caracle.
The main card I wasn't too sure about was Gideon. He was good against Hazoret but more Cast Outs could've done the same. I'll keep him for now and see how it goes, but unsure what will happen.
Overall I was really happy with the list. I'll double check later for the last couple sideboard cards and to double check my numbers.
2 Champion of Wits
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Settle the Wreckage
2 Cast Out
2 Farm // Market
3 Aether Meltdown
1 Pull From Tomorrow
3 Supreme Will
1 Disallow
1 Essence Scatter
25 Lands including:
2 Field of Ruin
Sideboard
3 Regal Caracle
2 Vizier of Many Faces
3 Negate
1 Hour of Revelation
1 Glyph Keeper
1 Kefnet the Mindful
Other cards I like are Engineered Explosives if you are worried about affinity or lantern. I did not know about nullmage though - that's dedicated. Most of the matchups that are playing artifacts you can have four creatures pretty easily. Stony silence or ancient grudge are both spells you can use too.
JPW - I've been picking up the list again after playing Shadow for Birmingham and saw your two lists (PPTQ and 5-0). Do you have a preference on the changes? I'm not too much a fan of selfless spirit but don't really care about the fourth wall of omens either so I'm good either way on those two drops. The other change was glen elendra for eidolon if I remember - I'm assuming this is just meta dependant and you just have a "more than 15 card sideboard" where some hate cards fall into the main. Did you feel eidolon is worth it main. I was mixed on it a few months ago but always felt Glen Elendra to be a bit too niche for the main especially as a four drop. I feel that a third e wit is sometimes just nice to have in that spot. Either way I'm going to pick up your list for a month or so because I like it a lot! Good luck at the RPTQ!
4 Street Wraith
4 Death's Shadow
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Fatal Push
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Stubborn Denial
4 Thought Scour
4 Serum Visions
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
1 Steam Vents
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Terminate
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Temur Battle Rage
I don't have the best memory but here's how I did:
No Byes - officially
Round One - W 2:0 - Standard Humans
Deck with standard format humans from a year ago. Nothing to say here. But pretty much a bye.
Round Two - W 2:0 - Abzan
Game one hard fight with multiple siege rhinos but able to close while at 2 life. Game two he has a bad hand and I win.
Round Three - W 2:1 - Abzan
Lost game one to a treetop village I didn't see. Able to use bolt to kill a scavenging ooze but it was dead in hand vs his goyf while I had a bigger shadow out. No souls in game 2/3 and I'm able to win.
Round Four - W 2:0 - Burn
Early delve threats both games able to put on pressure and take it away. End of game two I was at 6 and he had three land and a fetch while at 2. Any two spells kill me at my end step. He cracks fetch, I flash in a snapcaster targeting stub with just a fetch up (trying to get a reaction), he skull cracks me in response and I bolt for the win in response. His punt but I had to do something weird in order to give myself the chance of his misplay.
Round Five - L 0:2 - UWR Control with Quellers
I'm exhausted and misplay and lose (I said go ahead without attacking). Bolt plus snappy flashing in to kill Gideon.
Round Six - L 0:2 - Grixis Shadow
He blows me out with a Street Wraith game 1 on a Shadow vs Shadow battle. Game two he has the last threat.
Note that with all the Lilis running around we do want to keep some Stubborn Denials in post board.
Round Seven - W 2:1 - Lantern Control
Game one I lose big time. 3 Bridges out.
Game two - turn three delve threat with no bridge out and I win.
Game three - I have Angler and she can play bridge on three or ghost quarter herself to inquisition. Chooses the latter and inquisition and extracts all my k commands. Plays a bridge and I get a LotVeil out and ultimate (bridge vs everything else). She's at 8 and I'm at 12 with Angeler and Two Shadows. She keeps bridge, draws land, pithing needle (countered) and a two drop. So I can now attack with the shadows crack 2 fetches and get a shockland to get the kill.
Round Eight - L 1:2 - Grixis Shadow
Lose the mirror again. Nothing too special, but I need to pick up points on the mirror.
Round Nine - Win and In for Day Two - Esper Shadow (heart sinks) W: 2-1
Game one - lose against souls.
Game two - he plays Ranger of Eos for 2 Shadows (ugh). I have lili last hope out. He plays three shadows and I snap terminate his Ranger. Then proceed to Engineered Explosives all 3 Shadows away (woo!). The EE was for the souls but I'll take it.
Game three - I just draw great, get Lili out, explosives away a shadow, staticaster for souls!
Day Two - I'm tired so I'll just run down the score.
Round Ten - W 2:1 - Elves (He played worship which I think is wrong - one less threat to worry about)
Round Eleven - L 2:0 - UW Control (game 1 - 4 spreading seas and 2 tectonic edges)
Round Twelve - W 2:1 - Eldrazi Stompy (game three on the play I fetch, shock, and bolt myself. Play 2 shadows turn 2. He kills ones instead of playing a chalice. I play a third one and start to attack until I win)
Round Thirteen - W 2:0 - Affinity
Round Fourteen - L 0:2 - Titan Shift (game 1 I keep a very interactive hand blind - inquisition, push, snap, visions, 3 land - but not for shift)
Round Fifteen - W 2:1 - Dredge (I have a good hand game 2, nihil turn one. Followed by anger. Battle Raged Shadow. Game 3 his hand is the worse)
Overall, it felt fine having the two bolts. Helped killed two Gideons and a Lili. Also as a top deck against 3 mana elf creatures. Loved playing the deck but I think I'll take a break for now. I was just learning it for the GP.
Thanks everyone for all the resources - it was so helpful.
I agree, it's hard to nail down the last couple of cards. I'd like to play a bolt but I don't know how to fit it in. They are rarely a dead card.
But people much smarter than me keep playing 3 stubs main so I'm going to defer to them whether it is right or wrong. I don't have the hours to back up my appreciation for bolt. I can kill the cards i need to post board with sweepers if I can draw them.
Good luck to you too!
Main
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
3 Stubborn Denial
Sideboard:
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Stubborn Denial
Pros of keeping 12 fetches - doesn't reduce blue sources by 1. Still at 16 blue sources instead of 15 if you cut a fetch. Increases flexibility in putting the land in tapped or untapped because you can make that decision when you need to (comparing drawing the fetch or the shock). With the shock you have to make that decision before you know if you need to. The fetch allows you to control your life total better.
Glad everyone could help out! This deck is quite a puzzle and you have to understand what you and your opponent are trying to do to win the game. Try to push your plan while stopping their plan. Try to spend time with a friend playing a matchup over and over until you have a gameplan for that matchup. You don't have to win every time but you do need to know how to play the matchup.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/35259_The-Ultimate-Guide-To-Grixis-Deaths-Shadow.html
This deck is just hard. Thoughtseize is a difficult card to play, so is serum visions, so is fetching. Are we on the plan of attack with delve creatures or death's shadow?
Most matchups are unique and take deliberate practice to understand; I suggest understanding Affinity, the Mirror, Eldrazi Tron, Burn, and any other decks you are running into over online first. Then learn more matchups.
Start with burn as you know both sides of the matchup.
Who's the beatdown: Death Shadow is my vote!
What are some of our opponent's best cards against us: Eidolon of the Great Revel, Rift Bolt (it allows them to delay damage a turn so they can play many spells in one turn)
What's the opponent thinking: Since DS isn't a fast deck I have time to build up a critical mass of burn spells that I can play at the end of their turn, untap and do a bunch more. Let the DS player damage themselves and don't help them play get to under thirteen to play a shadow.
What's the sideboard plan: Worse cards in the matchup: Street Wraith, Kolaghan's Command, Terminate, Thoughtseize (that's 12 cards depending on the list)
What's the best cards in the sideboard: Stubborn Denial, Collective Brutality, Temur Battle Rage (3 - 6 cards depending on the list)
My sideboard plan right now (-4 Wraiths, -1 Kommand, +2 Stubborn Denial, +2 Collective Brutality, +1 Temur Battle Rage). I leave in Thoughtseize because Eidolon is very scary and I need to remove it from their hand)
What's the best cards in their sideboard: Path, RIP/other GY Hate, Deflecting Palm, Grim Lavamancer
What's their worse cards in the matchup: Searing Blaze, Skullcrack,
So if that's how this one matchup sort of works (my opinion of course). We need a hand that is both proactive (delve creatures are great here) and disruptive. We can't keep a hand of just cantrips and hope to figure it out. Now we have a good question when we look at our opening hand - do we have a threat and either discard or countermagic. From there you are giving yourself the best chance of winning the game. If you don't, that's okay. Why did we lose? Could we have won with the information we had? Could we have won if we had hidden information? Could we have inferred the hidden information?
Finally, and sorry to go on such a long thread, learn general rules. This deck does have a lot of "it depends" answers but crossing off some decision points automatically is quite helpful to learn when you shouldn't do them. Let me explain. When you have a choice in fetchlands turn one, it's better to leave Polluted Delta as the last card to fetch with. Why, because it's the only fetch that can get both basic island and swamp. Obvious I know, but now when we look at turn one we know we should play Bloodstained Mire or Scalding Tarn before a Polluted Delta.
Other basic rules to live by: Fetch before Serum Visions if you are going to need to fetch. It hurts when you shouldn't have but more often than not you should. Should you fetch + shock before serum visions. I mostly do unless I have a good reason not to.
The last section might not have been too clear but try to find out what decision points are coming up over and over and try to figure out what the most common decision is and when you should not make that decision.
Any more comments on the Burn matchup from anyone else would be helpful for me if there's more insight.
I can probably do another one of these tomorrow if it was helpful let me know.
Rec sage hitting enchantment is it's bonus.
How many enchantments are really bothering us lately that pridemage won't handle?
I'm thinking Detention Sphere, Worship, Phyrexian Unlife, (what am I missing that matters)
Manglehorn makes artifacts enter tapped.Which affects:
Slows Tron down from cycling stars / spheres. O stone. Expedition Map.
Affinity loses a blocker the turn they play it. Some lands come into play tapped.
Lantern pieces come into play tapped.
Any eggs deck loses mox opal usage the turn they come in. Same with lotus bloom.
I think I'm leaning towards rec sage since the benefits of manglehorn might not be something we are losing to all that much. The tron implications are the most appealing but I haven't seen that deck around lately.
Also, and not meaning to nitpick. But when you chorded for Elesh Norn you counted Spellskite as a defender so be careful when considering your defender count. What was the masterpiece you were playing? Staff maybe? How's that been as a manasink?
I'm trying to put a company list together for this weekend as I was having lots of trouble vs DS and UW Control. But I don't know if I can find Shaman's for it. Hopefully I can find them if not I'll run an extra voice, ooze. Not sure what else to swap in. Wall of omens doesn't sound too terrible to just draw a card - thoughts?
Would you leave in staticaster for elspeth tokens against UW? I was getting wrecked by attacking into condemn and blessed alliance - I'll play tighter this Sunday.
Also, have you tested out courser or tracker in the kiki deck and how did it work out?
I was testing it out to mixed results. Thought it was a bit slow and considering how mana hungry we are it is hard to find the time to spend it. But anytime I was able to play it on a stalled board it did it's job very well to pull ahead. I'm leaning towards not including it but wondering if anyone else has tried it out.