Give me a product with real value, and i don't mean EV, I mean stop stuffing reprint sets with filler trash and calling it a limited format, and I'll buy in. I want to pay Wizards, not some company that bought 1800 cases from them to flip to me for a profit for the few singles I need. Then they can have my money again.
This is my main issue. I love opening sealed product but it's just so scandalous now. They have handed the reins over to SCG and the like. I feel the need to sell my collection simply because I feel the need to, and if I feel this way, more like me probably do as well. (The casual player with a $20k+ collection that just doesn't want to support being taken for a fool)
1/3 of the value of my collection is a tough pill to swallow indeed, but I understand the liberation you feel from doing it, and it makes sense. It is just an estimated value after all.
I think you may have it backwards. Legacy is infinite and standard is very short lived. It's a strategy to allow new players to be more competitive with each other.
Legacy will have a limited shelf life as long as the barrier for entry is there. The more players being able to play it, the more MTG as a whole will grow. I am willing to bet casual eternal players buy more standard product than standard players do. They have always loved MTG and always will, even if they quit for a while.
I own almost every decent legacy playable and I don't see an end to the game in sight. I still wait for standard sets and eternal sets to come out and enjoy seeing new cards compliment my plethora of old ones.
When knee jerk kids grow up they will realize the staying power of the casual magic player. The game is fun and will never end. I can quit the game for a while and come right back. It appeals to ages 8-Death, which is pretty damn solid for a hobby.
Many want to open sealed product instead of buying singles. When manipulated singles pricing dictates the price of sealed product, then players are forced to buy singles or lose money.
Soooo, players can't open sealed product unless they want to lose money. /cheer!
Most stores use online pricing as the standard, and SCG is selling boxes for $350 USD (over $400 CAD). It's pretty clear they don't even want to sell them, they just want to open them and manipulate the price of singles. Casual players like me love opening boxes/cases till the cows come home, because buying singles is boring and unrewarding. I would rather open a pack mint card myself and be the only one who touches it, and this is being taken from me unless I want to lose money.
Unfortunately their doesn't seem to be a valid solution. Wizards will find one if they have to. All I can really do is rant and not buy sealed product OR singles, and hope my favorite hobby starts going down the drain? Ugghhh no... I better at least sell my collection first.
And the bubble will burst due to casual players selling their collections and just proxying everything instead of supporting the game.
If you're a casual player, WTH are you doing buying Modern / Eternal Masters? This product isn't for you.
People have been proxying Magic for as long as Magic has existed. Unless you're trying to bring your proxies to organized play, or trying to defraud people by selling counterfeit cards on the secondary market, Wizards couldn't care less. That's money they weren't going to make from you anyway. Proxying by casuals is free advertising for WotC. You oughtta get a check from them.
Masters sets are for hardcore players with deep pockets. If you don't fit that profile (and I don't), why fret over it? The vast majority of people who buy / play Magic are never going to see Masters product in the first place. I can't imagine their experience of the game is going to be diminished by the skewed EV of Masters packs.
Saying Wizards would care less if I used proxies instead of originals for casual play is ridiculous lol. I have spent roughly $30,000 or more on magic in my lifetime. Imagine how many other casual players do the same. Add it up, then tell me wizards would rather us play with proxies.
Free advertising? I would interpret it as advertising a way to no longer support the game...
Product not for me? Also ridiculous. If I want to open boxes or buy singles that means it's for me. It doesn't get any more complicated than that.
Note the "casual" but I suppose I should have said kitchen table.
We don't play competitively, we don't use sideboards, we brew our own decks, we don't use hate cards like blood moon, and rarely use combo cards.
We just entertain the entire card pool, and have fun.
As non-competitive kitchen table players, who on god`s green earth are stopping you from playing with print proxies and using approximately $0 on this game? Put basics and junk cards into some good sleeves, inkjet the cards you want to play, cut them up and put them in front of the lands in the sleeves.
The thing that you`re actually paying for when you buy ABUR duals and Wastelands and Tarmogoyfs and any other expensive cards, is tournament legality. You don`t need that, which means that you don`t need to play with proper cards.
I agree that it`s too bad that real cards can be as expensive as they are, but please stop acting as if you`re entitled to have them for cheap. You`re not, cards cost what they cost.
My group has decided that Proxies are the way to go until the price of a card itself is worth it to buy. The rares and uncommons we'll likely buy once they tank very hard, but definitely not the Mythics. Probably new sets included until they rotate. I have you to thank as it really got me thinking more about it. I've always felt strongly against it, but I don't really care to support degenerative gambling and hurting the bank with my favorite hobby. it just makes me bitter.
All this set has done for me is allow me to buy all the singles I don't have yet on the cheap, when the prices tank in a month.
Isn't that the whole goal of this set? I mean, what else do you want out of a reprint set?
That's not a rhetorical question. The set will tank prices of some cards that were expensive, ding the prices of some other expensive cards, and prevent a third group of expensive cards from becoming more expensive. What else do you want from a reprint set?
I wanted more nostalgia, more value, and to buy a few cases. But when the card prices are unnaturally inflated by online stores and hoarders, and then WoTC uses these prices to determine the perceived value of the set, guess what? We get way less than the actual value. I then proceed to not support it, and then cry about it on forums.
What this means to me is that you agree with the idea of a banlist (formal or informal) in general; you simply don't agree with the content of said banlist.
Sort of I guess. I mean some cards get broken (Dark Depths) beyond intention, and should be banned due to design failure.
I believe the main culprit is the sideboard. If it didn't exist, then perhaps only broken cards would need to be banned, not great cards. Perhaps sideboards are absolutely necessary and I just don't see why.
Really though I just get annoyed when people lose and blame a card banned in a specific format when we are playing casual.
Jeesh...I suppose I should have used the word "rarely" instead of don't lol... Thanks for clearing that up. Note the "fun" at the end.. I have 6 Blood Moons and have used them enough to not play with them, because they are not fun to play with or against. It's not like we banned them, we just want to have fun!
What some may need to realize is that when a card is tournament viable it is bought out like mad and inflated to a price only tournament players, and people with enough money will pay for. The rest are left to complain.
Wizards are clearly preying upon these inflated prices instead of normalizing them. They are doing this just to make money on lottery style products, and it's a disgrace.
Their motto seems to be "The higher the EV of a set, the less good cards we need to print in a given set, hence more sets to make money from!" Yay!
Players supporting this strategy by buying product or buying the cards themselves at an inflated price so card stores just end up buying more boxes will cause the trend to continue and/or get worse.
The only way to stop it is to stop supporting it. I have always been against proxies of cards I don't already own, but really why should I care anymore when the company I am supporting is taking me for a fool.
As non-competitive kitchen table players, who on god`s green earth are stopping you from playing with print proxies and using approximately $0 on this game? Put basics and junk cards into some good sleeves, inkjet the cards you want to play, cut them up and put them in front of the lands in the sleeves.
The thing that you`re actually paying for when you buy ABUR duals and Wastelands and Tarmogoyfs and any other expensive cards, is tournament legality. You don`t need that, which means that you don`t need to play with proper cards.
I agree that it`s too bad that real cards can be as expensive as they are, but please stop acting as if you`re entitled to have them for cheap. You`re not, cards cost what they cost.
Dude I've been playing since revised and have always supported this game from the start. Maybe I will play in tournaments when I'm not so busy in Life?
I do proxy cards I already own so I can make more decks, and I don't care if my friends proxy cards either. I never said I was entitled to cheap cards, nor did I say the cards themselves were too expensive. I said the set is too expensive, and it is for what you get.
These cards have an artificially inflated value and it's clearly preyed upon by Wizards. The real value of this set is nowhere near the price of sealed product, and throwing in so many trash can cards that are hardly relevant to "eternal cards" pissed me off enough to not buy any sealed product. And that pisses me off too because I love opening boxes lol.
The only way to entice change, is say what you feel and act with your wallet. Hopefully others will follow and things may improve. And that is what I'm doing.
I assumed they would do this with the rest of the spoilers to bait in more preorders, just like MM2015 so I thankfully didn't preorder. I would have bought 2 cases if possible, and would have really enjoyed opening these packs. But I am offended by their greed and refuse to support it. It really is a shame. I suppose they just saved me a lot of money though so whatever. I will wait a month and buy all the cards I need for less than the price of a box, which seems to be the new trend.
I really should have waited till the spoilers were done, because I wouldn't have created this thread at all. This set won't get my friends back in the game it'll just milk the current players. There is just too much trash can JUNK, and many aren't even "eternal" let alone playable.
They want players on their money treadmill or none at all, what a joke.
I'm sure articles have or will be written but I just have a couple points to make quickly about Eternal Masters. I have many friends in the 30+ range that would totally get back into magic with a set like this. It has much of the nostalgic cards they remember and giving them a chance to obtain them all in a single set would be huge. Unfortunately the price makes this unrealistic for them as they are not willing to pay amounts their wife's would divorce them over, just to be able to get back in the game with a small but playable kitchen table collection.
Allowing them to get back in is all it takes to possibly rekindle the fire they had for the game, and buy future sets, but it won't happen at this price. It's just too expensive.
All this set has done for me (a casual legacy player who ignores the ban list) is allow me to buy all the singles I don't have yet on the cheap, when the prices tank in a month. Cards I would have eventually bought eventually whether they were reprinted or not. For this I am thankful, but I would prefer if my friends could play too lol.
This is my main issue. I love opening sealed product but it's just so scandalous now. They have handed the reins over to SCG and the like. I feel the need to sell my collection simply because I feel the need to, and if I feel this way, more like me probably do as well. (The casual player with a $20k+ collection that just doesn't want to support being taken for a fool)
1/3 of the value of my collection is a tough pill to swallow indeed, but I understand the liberation you feel from doing it, and it makes sense. It is just an estimated value after all.
Legacy will have a limited shelf life as long as the barrier for entry is there. The more players being able to play it, the more MTG as a whole will grow. I am willing to bet casual eternal players buy more standard product than standard players do. They have always loved MTG and always will, even if they quit for a while.
I own almost every decent legacy playable and I don't see an end to the game in sight. I still wait for standard sets and eternal sets to come out and enjoy seeing new cards compliment my plethora of old ones.
When knee jerk kids grow up they will realize the staying power of the casual magic player. The game is fun and will never end. I can quit the game for a while and come right back. It appeals to ages 8-Death, which is pretty damn solid for a hobby.
Soooo, players can't open sealed product unless they want to lose money. /cheer!
Most stores use online pricing as the standard, and SCG is selling boxes for $350 USD (over $400 CAD). It's pretty clear they don't even want to sell them, they just want to open them and manipulate the price of singles. Casual players like me love opening boxes/cases till the cows come home, because buying singles is boring and unrewarding. I would rather open a pack mint card myself and be the only one who touches it, and this is being taken from me unless I want to lose money.
Unfortunately their doesn't seem to be a valid solution. Wizards will find one if they have to. All I can really do is rant and not buy sealed product OR singles, and hope my favorite hobby starts going down the drain? Ugghhh no... I better at least sell my collection first.
Saying Wizards would care less if I used proxies instead of originals for casual play is ridiculous lol. I have spent roughly $30,000 or more on magic in my lifetime. Imagine how many other casual players do the same. Add it up, then tell me wizards would rather us play with proxies.
Free advertising? I would interpret it as advertising a way to no longer support the game...
Product not for me? Also ridiculous. If I want to open boxes or buy singles that means it's for me. It doesn't get any more complicated than that.
This is true.
And the bubble will burst due to casual players selling their collections and just proxying everything instead of supporting the game.
Online stores can only manipulate the market so much before they destroy it.
My group has decided that Proxies are the way to go until the price of a card itself is worth it to buy. The rares and uncommons we'll likely buy once they tank very hard, but definitely not the Mythics. Probably new sets included until they rotate. I have you to thank as it really got me thinking more about it. I've always felt strongly against it, but I don't really care to support degenerative gambling and hurting the bank with my favorite hobby. it just makes me bitter.
I wanted more nostalgia, more value, and to buy a few cases. But when the card prices are unnaturally inflated by online stores and hoarders, and then WoTC uses these prices to determine the perceived value of the set, guess what? We get way less than the actual value. I then proceed to not support it, and then cry about it on forums.
Sort of I guess. I mean some cards get broken (Dark Depths) beyond intention, and should be banned due to design failure.
I believe the main culprit is the sideboard. If it didn't exist, then perhaps only broken cards would need to be banned, not great cards. Perhaps sideboards are absolutely necessary and I just don't see why.
Really though I just get annoyed when people lose and blame a card banned in a specific format when we are playing casual.
Wizards are clearly preying upon these inflated prices instead of normalizing them. They are doing this just to make money on lottery style products, and it's a disgrace.
Their motto seems to be "The higher the EV of a set, the less good cards we need to print in a given set, hence more sets to make money from!" Yay!
Players supporting this strategy by buying product or buying the cards themselves at an inflated price so card stores just end up buying more boxes will cause the trend to continue and/or get worse.
The only way to stop it is to stop supporting it. I have always been against proxies of cards I don't already own, but really why should I care anymore when the company I am supporting is taking me for a fool.
Dude I've been playing since revised and have always supported this game from the start. Maybe I will play in tournaments when I'm not so busy in Life?
I do proxy cards I already own so I can make more decks, and I don't care if my friends proxy cards either. I never said I was entitled to cheap cards, nor did I say the cards themselves were too expensive. I said the set is too expensive, and it is for what you get.
These cards have an artificially inflated value and it's clearly preyed upon by Wizards. The real value of this set is nowhere near the price of sealed product, and throwing in so many trash can cards that are hardly relevant to "eternal cards" pissed me off enough to not buy any sealed product. And that pisses me off too because I love opening boxes lol.
The only way to entice change, is say what you feel and act with your wallet. Hopefully others will follow and things may improve. And that is what I'm doing.
We don't play competitively, we don't use sideboards, we brew our own decks, we don't use hate cards like blood moon, and rarely use combo cards.
We just entertain the entire card pool, and have fun.
They want players on their money treadmill or none at all, what a joke.
Allowing them to get back in is all it takes to possibly rekindle the fire they had for the game, and buy future sets, but it won't happen at this price. It's just too expensive.
All this set has done for me (a casual legacy player who ignores the ban list) is allow me to buy all the singles I don't have yet on the cheap, when the prices tank in a month. Cards I would have eventually bought eventually whether they were reprinted or not. For this I am thankful, but I would prefer if my friends could play too lol.