@Stormblind...
Why haven't you decided to join the wagon yet?
I am doing what I do every game after we catch a scum; re-reading. I am feeling pretty confident given that I did manage to nail Necarg as scum, but, I want to read his interactions with every person in the game. As any good player should. Don't get me wrong, I am pretty damn certain you're scum given that I can't see you AND Void/ISO being town, and ISO has a great deal more town cred to me then you do. But first, re-read, update my lists, and see where I go from there feeling wise. It's also why I'm quiet, I'm trying to find time to do my re-read. But we honestly have no reason to rush a lynch, we want more conversation and things to analyze. Slow playing a lynch is always the better choice unless all activity dies off.
Hey Stormblind, can you remind me when and why you started suspecting Necarg so strongly?
My first real post of the game. My T/S listing. He was listed as my #2 suspect, just behind Huntzilla. My reasoning was that he had been ghosting; posting but not posting content. Not taking positions on anything. Basically appearing to be presenting content without ever actually presenting content.
11. Necarg - I have... no opinion. I am suspicious of him simply off the virtue of him basically ghosting this thread. He's here, but he isn't. He's posting JUST enough to not draw attention, but can't really think of a single solid position he's taken on anything. Purely a gut call? Necarg is scum. His posts REALLY just don't rub me the right way given that they're almost coached to be completely and utterly middle of the road "dont draw attention to myself"
Regardless your opinion on it, can you argue at all that Necarg will be a lynch in the future? And that his lynch does provide information to the town to analyse and go forward from when he flips scum?
If I may ask, WHY are you seemingly so resistant to a lynch on Necarg?
I'm either sitting on Necarg or moving back to Huntzilla. Those are the two people I am happy to push (I think I was the first person to even bring attention to Necarg for Pete's sake), and the two people I am happy to hitch my wagon and analysis to.
But honestly, the emotional appeals, OMGUS, and redirection showed by Necarg means he's pretty obviously scum. Jailkeeper is a good false claim, but is pretty clearly a roleblocker claiming it.
It is what it is. Necarg is scum, and those redirecting the wagon will seriously need to be examined tomorrow, cause this REEKS of someone redirecting from a scum to a townie.
I explained this. Scum don't antagonise other players, not in the situation I was and still am in. The strives to layers in the game have unanimously town read me, and not just slightly, a hard read. I was leading discussion, influencing votes and the only one actually doing anything of value.
And suddenly I decide to jump down TS's throat, a player who is low hanging fruit if I were to deliberately try to get him lynched. So no, scum generic would absolutely not antagonise out of nowhere.
Care for some cheese with that wine?
You Are claiming this was a predetermined Tactic?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
Oh I know I'M good enough to be 5 moveS ahead, but I'm also intelligent enough to know at least three of you in this and are simplistiC in your thinking. The doUble bluff and subtle town telling is wasted on you. You need the Moderator to tell you who is what alignment before you understand it.
But well done with that Mafia language, almost looks like you know what you are doing...
Also curious, "ATM SCUM" what do you mean by this?
Stormblind, if your two scumreads are Huntzilla and Necarg, I would recommend a vote on the latter; Huntzilla wagon isn't going anywhere and Necarg wagon is probably going to be the counterwagon to the mislynch of the day.
Stormblind, if your two scumreads are Huntzilla and Necarg, I would recommend a vote on the latter; Huntzilla wagon isn't going anywhere and Necarg wagon is probably going to be the counterwagon to the mislynch of the day.
I will say this, this game is all over the ******* place. Every single goddamned person in this game has been called "super scummy" to the point that Generic, who like, 2 pages ago was considered almost confirmed town, is suddenly under serious consideration as scum. (or atleast drawing alot of attention for it).
Interesting note Generic, did you notice that TappingStones did the EXACT same thing to you he did to me? The second you moderately insult him, he goes on the offensive, invents a "massive scum tell" and goes insane attacking you. It's just... his thing. I blame insecurity in him being newbie.
You're all insane and need to get back on track here.
Generic is town, Huntzilla and Necarg are scum. Nacho is town, based off Kpaca's play. It's not his scum play. I have no idea on Bur, as stated earlier on.
I am happy with a Necarg or Huntzilla lynch, get your ******* brains in the game and play logically instead of throwing ***** at the walls and hoping it sticks.
SB's push on Hunt lynch doesn't make him look good at all.
Since meta is such an important thing here, don't forget to check my history, I do not and am not pushing a hunt wagon. I don't push wagons. I simply don't care enough to push wagons, never have. I just point out the things I find interesting, and/or people that I find scummy.
Coming from a guy who ~20 posts ago declared Hunt as scum?
Okay, let's agree you are not pushing Hunt wagon. Why? If you think that guys is a scum, who are you NOT pushing their wagon? Why do you not want to see Hunt dead, if he is scum?
Also, that last line is especially horrible. It's sounds just as an attempt to wash one's hands from wagons.
Again, if everyone else is being cleared or condemned based on meta. Read my games. What i described is precisely how I play mafia. You don't like it? Too bad. Lynch me if you want.
Why Am i not pushing their wagon? Cause my play style largely revolves around establishing my positions, making them clear, and leaving them. WHY? So that as people die or get lynched, and I'm proven right, there's a solid basis of judgment that I can be tied to. I'm not the best at defending myself when under attack, so I do rely on having a basis of decisions and positions with which to defend myself. So that, come day 3, I can say, "Call me scum all you want. But I have taken solid positions every day, and I was right about X and Y. So **** off."
Hell, I've gotten lynched in games where I'm confirmed townie. I am that bad at defending myself :teach:.
After the more recent posts, I am definitely 100% happy with a Necarg Lynch as well however.
SB's push on Hunt lynch doesn't make him look good at all.
Since meta is such an important thing here, don't forget to check my history, I do not and am not pushing a hunt wagon. I don't push wagons. I simply don't care enough to push wagons, never have. I just point out the things I find interesting, and/or people that I find scummy.
@Stormblind- Have you played before? Your reads are crap. You conclude I've made every scum tell but still say I'm town. That's a pretty idiotic one there. If I've made every scum tell and you still aren't willing to say I'm scum that means I must have been doing something GOOD. I'll simplify it for you as it seems you need it told to you twice. If I've already done everything I could possibly do to say I'm scum (according to your own words) and yet you still say I'm town, this begs the question at what point would you consider me scum??? There's nothing left for me to scum tell...right? I know I'm not dealing with a genius over there but please attempt to use what brain cells you have left, pretty please.
I was hoping the lurker would come to the table to help us scum hunt but instead he tries to muddy the waters and make it difficult for us to find the real scum.
I'm cool with a Tordeck, Stormblind or Necarg lynch.
And to explain experience, I have about 5 years. And the Ad hom's here are hilarious.
If you feel they played so bad why not make note of it? You went out of your way to crap talk the guy in his first game and then when I take you to task you say they played worse? Really? They don't come across more scummy based on your reads....which makes you suspect.
Reads aren't everything. Part of it *IS* the newbie factor. I point out bad play, and you will likely swing at some point for it. But, again, ask any player who's old enough to have played with me, I am mostly a gut player with a side of analytics. You may have committed a lot of scum tells, but, you present a lot of them in the way new players DO. New players get flustered, do stupid ***** (in mafia terms), and swing. That's almost EXACTLY how this situation reads to me.
I have been through this song and dance with enough newbies to know how to read the situation. Hence my bet on you being town. I doubt many others will hold the same position because, as stated, eventually you will draw too much attention, or be the only reasonable target for a lynch and have the back history of scummy behaviour to justify it, very few players who have your play style survive to end game. There isn't an ARGUMENT for you being town, outside of the fact that you're seemingly a very emotional player, and they tend to out themselves pretty quickly or break down into OMGUS regardless of faction.
The others again, come off as scummy due to the logic and my experience with mafia. Players like Necarg ghost, which means that they don't actually contribute, and actively try their best to seem like they're putting themselves out there, and posting content, when in reality they aren't doing much of anything besides playing low and being quiet. No concrete stances means that they're not able to be tied to anything for analysis, making them able to escape attacks and potentially flip it on their attacker due to making THEM seem bloodthirsty and scummy. This is why Necarg is on my list.
And if you REALLY have to ask why Huntzilla is scummy, read above. I actually explained my motives against him well.
And for Seppel; I never have and never will like his play style. He's ghosting without ghosting. He posts tonnes of content, but all of it so erratic, and contradictory to his own bloody posts that you can't figure out where he stands, what he's doing, or anything because he's secretly 10 different people who are all insane and have different reads on the game. So I'm convinced every game he's scum, and try my best to kill him every game. I have no problem with him as a person, I dont even KNOW him as a person, however he is the antithesis to everything i believe mafia should stand for, and as such, I do not enjoy playing with him. I don't doubt his style is effective, because again, after years of the same insane playstyle, everyone just writes it off as Seppel, but it's very unenjoyable to play with.
This good enough reasoning for my actions?
As supposed town, you should not have "motives against" people. You don't need a "motive" to vote someone. You need a read, a feeling, preferably a fact. You create motives. They are doctored up. Creating a motive is a scum trait.
If you truly believe that, you really need to go do MafiaScums tutorial for new players. EVERYONE has a motivation at all times. The TOWN motivation is to find scum to win the game. For a brief English lesson, synonyms for Motive: Intent, Purpose, Reason, Motivation. These are all words with the same meaning as motive. If I had said "My reasons against him clearly" there would be no discussion of this. This isn't a 'wording' slip, this is me having a good understanding of the English language and using it. And the fact that I had to explain this is honestly kind of sad; because guess what? SCUM Don't need a reason outside "HAY THIS GUYS GOING TO SWING". I went on you as the third vote, this was by NO MEANS a good strong wagon to hop onto. If I wanted a free kill, I would have hopped onto Kami, or TS. But again, I explained my MOTIVES for not doing so with them. But, as I believe them to be town, I have not voted for them. I believe you to be scum, so I have voted for you as my motive is to catch scum. And the sheer amount of OMGUS you are constantly throwing at the things I say against you (Please note, he hasn't had anything negative to say about my posts until such time as I attack him) just massively re-enforces my belief that you ARE scum.
I said it before, and I stand by it. We got ourselves a scum 'ere boyz
I am in no way shape or form a doctor. The flavor mentions the healing stuff but my "Delver" role is more investigatory. The fact you still needed me to claim more than that is scummy. The fact that I doubt you will be happy with this additional portion of the claim also brings me pause. But hopefully you get over it at this point.
Did I say I wanted you to claim more? No, I explained why I had my vote on you still, and explained my reasoning. My reasoning still stands. I *STILL* do not like how you have played the claim, and I doubt I will. The claim may clear you, but I honestly only place so much faith in claims as I have been burned on it repeatedly, and I know from prior discussions with the mod about game designs that he's a bastard mod who enjoys ******* with peoples standard role interpretations.
Mafia doctor being the only doctor, Town Roleblocker, etc. So I ESPECIALLY know not to trust roles in a TCM game.
I am ok with Kami being lynched. But before we go ahead with that, we should probably talk about Void. Unless he gets replaced and his replacement has a ton of town minded activity between now Night, I am going to Depose. Having a useless town there is just as bad as having scum in the seat. Better to reelect Tom.
Are you serious with this? You're discussing casually about killing someone who, near as I can tell, the majority of us consider basically guaranteed town because he STATED IN THREAD he would be away for a while because the loss of his double vote "is as bad as having a scum in the seat"?
By what enormous stretch of imagination did you arrive at the conclusion that A fairly cleared townie who cannot be killed is as bad as an active scum member who is using said double vote for an anti-town motive, while being untargettable?
I'm still content with my vote on Huntzilla. I really dislike when people slow roll their claims, especially something as vague as he did. It stinks to me like fishing for a counter claim. "I heal people and remove diseases"; so that if the doctor counter claims him, he can shrug it off as an entirely different role. "Oh no, I just counteract any roleblocks that target a character". Especially pairing it with as random a name as Delver.
So your telling me, TS and Bur, that you think scum would go to all the trouble of calling someone's play scummy but not then attack them as scum? Why?
I'm not sure what you are referring to.
@TS: What's your approach to the game when you have your scum-list locked down?
Not TS, SB. I meant that to Stormblind.
Push for their lynch, watch their play and analysis carefully. My scum lists usually end up being highly scrutinized. As we get information from night kills and lynches, refine my list. My lists tend to be static day to day outside of daykills. It's figuring out the strings of interactions. At current, those 3 are the ones I dislike. Huntzilla & seppel both for the lurker hunting, seppel for his whiplash inducing 180 on TS. Huntzilla additionally for his defensiveness and deflection.
Necarg is almost purely a gut read because there *ISN'T* anything to really read about him. That + his post count (Not a lurker) is what trips my scumdar. He's posting/postd a fair bit, but again, just feels... not there. A great ghosting job.
The reason I'm pushing Huntzilla instead of Necarg or Seppel? Necarg could be a misread and I'd really like some additional content, preferably concrete stuff that gives us something to work with. His posts have been so light and airy that I'm concerned about not really getting much information off a Necarg lynch at this point. Seppel is a recent replace in, and again, somewhat lower post count, and half of it contradicts the other half. I'd like a bit more meat to work with first.
Huntzilla has a decent post count, has committed a cardinal day 1 sin, had been deflective, and dismissive of questions and attacks. He has decent interactions with multiple people. And I am pretty certain we could gain some really good information when he flips scum.
I am doing what I do every game after we catch a scum; re-reading. I am feeling pretty confident given that I did manage to nail Necarg as scum, but, I want to read his interactions with every person in the game. As any good player should. Don't get me wrong, I am pretty damn certain you're scum given that I can't see you AND Void/ISO being town, and ISO has a great deal more town cred to me then you do. But first, re-read, update my lists, and see where I go from there feeling wise. It's also why I'm quiet, I'm trying to find time to do my re-read. But we honestly have no reason to rush a lynch, we want more conversation and things to analyze. Slow playing a lynch is always the better choice unless all activity dies off.
If I may ask, WHY are you seemingly so resistant to a lynch on Necarg?
But honestly, the emotional appeals, OMGUS, and redirection showed by Necarg means he's pretty obviously scum. Jailkeeper is a good false claim, but is pretty clearly a roleblocker claiming it.
It is what it is. Necarg is scum, and those redirecting the wagon will seriously need to be examined tomorrow, cause this REEKS of someone redirecting from a scum to a townie.
Also curious, "ATM SCUM" what do you mean by this?
Fair point.
unvote Huntzilla, vote Necarg
Interesting note Generic, did you notice that TappingStones did the EXACT same thing to you he did to me? The second you moderately insult him, he goes on the offensive, invents a "massive scum tell" and goes insane attacking you. It's just... his thing. I blame insecurity in him being newbie.
You're all insane and need to get back on track here.
Generic is town, Huntzilla and Necarg are scum. Nacho is town, based off Kpaca's play. It's not his scum play. I have no idea on Bur, as stated earlier on.
I am happy with a Necarg or Huntzilla lynch, get your ******* brains in the game and play logically instead of throwing ***** at the walls and hoping it sticks.
Again, if everyone else is being cleared or condemned based on meta. Read my games. What i described is precisely how I play mafia. You don't like it? Too bad. Lynch me if you want.
Why Am i not pushing their wagon? Cause my play style largely revolves around establishing my positions, making them clear, and leaving them. WHY? So that as people die or get lynched, and I'm proven right, there's a solid basis of judgment that I can be tied to. I'm not the best at defending myself when under attack, so I do rely on having a basis of decisions and positions with which to defend myself. So that, come day 3, I can say, "Call me scum all you want. But I have taken solid positions every day, and I was right about X and Y. So **** off."
Hell, I've gotten lynched in games where I'm confirmed townie. I am that bad at defending myself :teach:.
After the more recent posts, I am definitely 100% happy with a Necarg Lynch as well however.
Since meta is such an important thing here, don't forget to check my history, I do not and am not pushing a hunt wagon. I don't push wagons. I simply don't care enough to push wagons, never have. I just point out the things I find interesting, and/or people that I find scummy.
If you truly believe that, you really need to go do MafiaScums tutorial for new players. EVERYONE has a motivation at all times. The TOWN motivation is to find scum to win the game. For a brief English lesson, synonyms for Motive: Intent, Purpose, Reason, Motivation. These are all words with the same meaning as motive. If I had said "My reasons against him clearly" there would be no discussion of this. This isn't a 'wording' slip, this is me having a good understanding of the English language and using it. And the fact that I had to explain this is honestly kind of sad; because guess what? SCUM Don't need a reason outside "HAY THIS GUYS GOING TO SWING". I went on you as the third vote, this was by NO MEANS a good strong wagon to hop onto. If I wanted a free kill, I would have hopped onto Kami, or TS. But again, I explained my MOTIVES for not doing so with them. But, as I believe them to be town, I have not voted for them. I believe you to be scum, so I have voted for you as my motive is to catch scum. And the sheer amount of OMGUS you are constantly throwing at the things I say against you (Please note, he hasn't had anything negative to say about my posts until such time as I attack him) just massively re-enforces my belief that you ARE scum.
I said it before, and I stand by it. We got ourselves a scum 'ere boyz
Did I say I wanted you to claim more? No, I explained why I had my vote on you still, and explained my reasoning. My reasoning still stands. I *STILL* do not like how you have played the claim, and I doubt I will. The claim may clear you, but I honestly only place so much faith in claims as I have been burned on it repeatedly, and I know from prior discussions with the mod about game designs that he's a bastard mod who enjoys ******* with peoples standard role interpretations.
Mafia doctor being the only doctor, Town Roleblocker, etc. So I ESPECIALLY know not to trust roles in a TCM game.
Are you serious with this? You're discussing casually about killing someone who, near as I can tell, the majority of us consider basically guaranteed town because he STATED IN THREAD he would be away for a while because the loss of his double vote "is as bad as having a scum in the seat"?
By what enormous stretch of imagination did you arrive at the conclusion that A fairly cleared townie who cannot be killed is as bad as an active scum member who is using said double vote for an anti-town motive, while being untargettable?
I'm still content with my vote on Huntzilla. I really dislike when people slow roll their claims, especially something as vague as he did. It stinks to me like fishing for a counter claim. "I heal people and remove diseases"; so that if the doctor counter claims him, he can shrug it off as an entirely different role. "Oh no, I just counteract any roleblocks that target a character". Especially pairing it with as random a name as Delver.
Don't like it one bit.
Necarg is almost purely a gut read because there *ISN'T* anything to really read about him. That + his post count (Not a lurker) is what trips my scumdar. He's posting/postd a fair bit, but again, just feels... not there. A great ghosting job.
The reason I'm pushing Huntzilla instead of Necarg or Seppel? Necarg could be a misread and I'd really like some additional content, preferably concrete stuff that gives us something to work with. His posts have been so light and airy that I'm concerned about not really getting much information off a Necarg lynch at this point. Seppel is a recent replace in, and again, somewhat lower post count, and half of it contradicts the other half. I'd like a bit more meat to work with first.
Huntzilla has a decent post count, has committed a cardinal day 1 sin, had been deflective, and dismissive of questions and attacks. He has decent interactions with multiple people. And I am pretty certain we could gain some really good information when he flips scum.