Each player must have a Wishboard before the game starts.
Each player may choose to not to reveal the contents of their Wishboard to the other players.
A Wishboard must be on the table and visible for all players.
Wishboards consist of 10 cards exactly.
The Wishboard and the cards within the Wishboard don't count towards the 100 cards between your main deck and commander.
2) Games of Commander are unsanctioned, so I don't know why the RC has to have any rulings on what a sideboard is. The concept of a sideboard is unnecessary for Commander play. The idea of people revealing their commanders and people siding in cards before a game starts seems awfully unnecessary and kinda lame, so I understand why people wouldn't want sideboards. But you don't need a sideboard for a wish to work; you just need to define the parameters that a player must follow to get a cards from "outside the game". I will repeat this again; if calling it a Wishboard is somehow problematic because of a Wishboard's association with a sideboard for sanctioned, competitive play, then call it something different.
3) The biggest reason that I am opposed to the concept of "If you don't like Rule 13, then see Rule 0 and ask your playgroup" is that for every other class of cards that might come up under Rule 0, the default is that they are legal and allowed. We don't have a rule that says "Cards that destroy more than two lands do nothing in a game of Commander.", we ask before we start whether people are playing Mass-LD or not and go from there. We could do the same thing with Stax cards, infinite combos, extra turn cards, or whatever players might find objectionable, but the default is that these cards are legal and do exactly what they say they do. For some reason, Wishes are treated differently.
4) The biggest reasons why Wishes are treated differently has nothing to do with most of the reasons people bring up in this thread. The biggest reason is that the Oracle Card Rulings for Wishes are totally wishy-washy on what "outside the game" should mean for non-sanctioned play. The more I think about it, the more it makes a certain degree of sense for the RC to be equally vague on the subject. I just think that we have enough smart people in the room to figure this out so that we can fix this issue. And if it comes down to all the smart people coming together and saying that this issue is either not worth solving, unsolvable, or the issue are insurmountable, then so be it. I just haven't heard anything that is a true deal-breaker yet.
The "clean" method is the third option purposed by Ava, even stated by Wednesday as being the "cleanest".
Its literally the safest option if change were to occur.
Also that the only counter arguments to it are literally: Citing rules 0 and 13.
In fact both MHRBlue and Kamino_Taka have contributed very little in this revived discussion
People can't agree on what the social contract is, much less a set of cards even when handed to them with a silver platter that provides the cleanest answer.
one is an abusable minigame
If a player would hypothetically misbehave with using wishes, they are obviously violating the social contract / gentleman's agreement.
Quote from Legend »Why is anyone acting like having wishes conform to the Commander format would be complicated and unwieldy? It’s so intuitive a caveman can understand it.
Why is anyone acting like having wishes conform to the Commander format would be complicated and unwieldy
It’s just as reasonable to assume that wishing will take about as long as tutoring.
They’re meant for Magic as a whole
If I knew nothing about Rule 13, there would be no reason to think that I couldn't use a Wish to get the appropriate card from my trade binder since a game of Commander is clearly an Unsanctioned event. What we are asking for is to make that happen, but clarify exactly how it will work to avoid confusion.
The reason it doesn't work is because the game it is played with isn't the that is used in Commander, just like Paliano, the High City isn't meant for this format.
...it's the Tournament Rules. That's it. In any other setting Wishes are, by the rules of the game, allowed to get any card you own from outside the game. Except in EDH, where they have format-specific errata that says they do nothing.
both options can be made to work within the rules of Commander
exactly how they are supposed to
Either Wishes are fine and should be legal to work how they work, or they're not and they should be banned. There's no middle ground here.
I think there are way to many planeswalkers on the watchlist that are not even remotely problematic compared to currently existing generals.
I encourage playgroups who want to test this to do so, and this thread is at least a well thought out starting point. Arguing about it is beating a dead horse, and I strongly doubt that OPs experiment is going to uncover anything the RC or CAG won't, but it CAN help give some extra perspective, and it CAN help hammer out the best practices for playgroups who want to take advantage of rule 0 to allow PW commanders (that is, what steps should be taken to make the change work the best that it can).
"Because asking if you can use a wish [Battle of wits] for its actual intended purpose"
What's the downsides? I mean, if people get mad at you for doing it, then there's that - but otherwise you're usually only doing it in circumstances where you'd be guaranteed dead otherwise. There's literally nothing to lose.
Magic is a game of calculated risks. Even if there's a strong chance for you to recover and win, if losing triggers to your scoop hurts the attacker's chances to win more than leaving you alive, then it's correct for them to leave you alive. Depending on the circumstances, it could theoretically be correct for someone to leave you alive even if you have a 90% chance to win.
It’s true that this could be an issue, but we won’t know until we try. My personal prediction is that it would be identical to or even faster than searching a library.
These dozen cards with a sui generis effect have every right reason to be part of the game and are hence deserving of a short list of brief clarifications.
Quote from Lithl »Actual example from a past game of mine:
Radha player needs 2 more mana than he has to eliminate player C. Radha has me dead to rights, and a Neheb to get the mana he needs post combat. Radha cannot safely attack player C with any creature, including his Neheb, but I have no blocks that prevent him from killing me if he swings out.
I inform him I'll scoop before damage if he swings at me for lethal. Ultimately, he attacks me with Neheb and nothing else. I survive, he kills player C, and the game continues, giving me a chance at coming back. I did not ultimately win the game, but the threat of concession resulted in me not being killed that turn, exactly as described.