If my opponent controls an Oona's Prowler and I have a Dodecapod in hand, can I play the Prowler's ability to put the Dodecapod into play ? I'm pretty sure I can't because I think I would control the ability even tough the source is controlled by my opponent. My brother told me he did this in his last FNM and I wanted to be sure I was right in telling him he coudln't.
EDIT : Oops, I searched the forums and I found out the question had been asked 3 days ago... sorry about that, it won't happen again.
I'm French Canadian (Quebecois), and over here we do pronounce Reveillark like ''réveil'' (noun) or ''réveille'' (conjugated verb). Horseshoe_Hermit has it correct if it's supposed to be pronounced like french, but that I can't be sure... What makes me doubt is that the french version of Reveillark doesn't use the same linguistic roots at all : it's ''Sirlidiane''.
Combat damage on the stack isn't a source; the source is the creature that assigned the combat damage. Whether as it either currently exists or as it most recently existed (right before it left play). The game can determine information about that source as necessary, to determine if a player can use prowl's alternative cost or if an ability triggers (for example, Coastal Piracy).
Finally a clear answer from a reliable judge. Thank you Epeeguy.
Don't insult the other people who tried to or did help. -Woap
Gemini6778, level 3 or not, that judge was wrong. Summoning sickness is not a state or a characteristic that creatures gain or lose. It is a game rule, that is always in effect : a creature can't attack or use abilities with the tap symbol in its activation cost if its controller hasn't continuously controlled it since his last untap step. State-based effects do not need to check if a creature has summoning sickness or not; at all times, the creature is either affected by the rule, or it isn't.
The haste ability basically reads : ''This creature ignores the summoning sickness rule''. If a creature you didn't control at the beginning of your turn doesn't have haste at the beginning of your declare attackers step, when all attackers are declared at one time, you can't attack with it. If it had haste earlier in the turn and then lost it, it is affected by the rule again and can't attack. One Obsidian Battle-axe can't allow you to attack with more than one ''summoning sick'' creature a turn.
EDIT : Sarnath'd by Condor !
EDIT : On an other topic (I'd make an other post but it's against the forum rules since no one posted after me yet), I'm a bit confused about prowl, in the situations where a rogue creature gets killed while its combat damage is on the stack. The first question about prowl in the article suggests (altough not clearly) that the opponent could prowl if its creature killed by Nameless Inversion didn't lose all creature types just before dying. However, the rules insert quoted in the next question seems to contradict that :
The definition of prowl includes this happy little bit:
Quote:
...if a player was dealt combat damage this turn by a source that, at the time it dealt that damage, was under your control and had any of this spell's creature types.
If the creature is not in play when the damage resolves, then it's not under your control, right ? It would mean that this combat damage won't allow prowl.
What are "toploaders"? I thought that essentially all sleeves were two pieces of rectangular material connected at all but the upper edge, which is the mental image conveyed by the word "toploader." If those are illegal, what kinds of sleeves are not?
Toploaders are big, thick and rigid sleeves, wich are most often used to protect very valuable cards. You put the card in a normal opaque sleeve, then you put the sleeved card in the toploader (wich is usually translucid). Many Vintage players sleeve their entire decks using these, in order to perfectly shield their power nine cards. I had no idea these were illegal in sanctionned tournaments, but I understand why : a deck sleeved in toploaders is very hard to shuffle properly. The only easy methods to do so are ones that are not true randomization, like pile shuffle. That means it's much easier to cheat by stacking your deck when you use those, especially since your opponent is most likely not gonna shuffle much and simply cut because it's too darn long and complicated to shuffle such a deck sufficiently. I've never seen a deck sleeved in toploaders outside of unsanctionned vintage, but it sure would be suspicious.
What's more of a pain in the *** to shuffle than a deck sleeved in toploaders ? Well, a Battle of Wits deck sleeved in toploaders, of course ! I faced one in a local tournament a few years ago. I know and trust the guy who was playing it, so I never worried. But hell was it funny !
Now.. a rules question: If you kill maralen with a cantrip, do you still draw? I'd think yes, but not sure.
As long as the cantrip spell says you destroy or remove the creature from the game before drawing a card, then yes, you do. However, if that cantrip is a direct damage spell, you don't, because Maralen wouldn't actually be destroyed until state-based effects are checked, after the spell has finished resolving.
If a creature put into play with Makeshift Mannequin is turned face down, for example with Ixidron, does it keep the triggered ability that causes it be sacrificied when it's targeted ? I know the creature keeps the mannequin counter, but since the ability is actually given to the creature before it's turned face down, does it lose it when it becomes a 2/2 with no abilities ?
EDIT : While you're at it, what if someone plays Humility instead of Ixidron ?
If one would shuffle nonexistent things, or things that can't be found, into a library, instead that library is shuffled.
I can't remember where I got this from, but it's true.
Quote from Woapalanne »
That ruling is correct - the token is shuffled into the library and then ceases to exist (so please don't physically shuffle it in.) That's probably what HH is thinking of, too.
Hmmm, it seems to me there's a difference between the Darksteel Colossus token situation and the CI question that HH is refering to, aka the one about removing a Lorwyn Incarnation from the game in response to its shuffle trigger. In the first case, you do, in theory, shuffle something in the library, and then it ceases to exist. In the second one, there is no object to shuffle in the library. Maybe that's why the answer given in the article is right.
Also, it seems to me like the person asking the Tidespout Tyrant question is under the impression that the only permanent they're allowed to bounce is the opponent's creature. I know that in a tournament setting, a judge wouldn't be able to help out on that one, but couldn't the answer to this question in article form perhaps suggest they return their own Shriekmaw or an opponent's land, in the interest of education?
If Shriekmaw is what triggered Tidesprout Tyrant's ability, then he won't be able to return it to his hand since it is still on the stack when the ability resolves.
However, I agree with you that the answer could have been clearer and more helpful. It really looked like what a judge would say if that question was asked to him during a tournament. This is not a tournament, it's Cranial Insertion, an educational tool. If you don't want to bounce the opponent's only creature with Tidesprout Tyrant, you can bounce any other permanent in play, no matter who controls it. Lands are permanents. The only situation where you would be forced to bounce the opponent's creature is if it's truly the only permanent you can legally target, and I doubt it's the case in the situation described.
I have two related questions about permanents that have a triggered ability of the type "When this is put into a graveyard from play".
1. If such a permanent loses that ability while in play, say, because of Humility, does the ability trigger when the permanent is put into the graveyard because the ability came back while the card was "on its way" to the bin ?
2. Does Yixlid Jailer prevent those abilities from triggering ?
Basically, what I wanna know is if removing such abilities either in play or in the graveyard prevent them from triggering.
So are abilities triggered by spells/abilities put on the stack as a part of checking state based effects? I know they're put on following the resolution of whatever's happening (the tendrils, for example).
Not exactly. It's not part of checking state-based effects, but it happens approximately at the same time. Triggered abilities trigger if the event they're looking for happens during the resolution of a spell or ability BUT they're not put into the stack until a player would get priority, after the spell or ability has finished resolving. This is either right after or right before state-based effects are checked, that I'm not sure, but it doesn't matter too much since both things happen before anyone can play anything.
A very good article indeed. Every Magic player should read this and then look at him/herself. I consider myself a sportsmanlike player, but I must admit I have my jerk times. I have a draft tonight and I'll try to keep my thoughts for myself, as gypsieking3280 says, because I realize now that I say things like "I can't believe I am getting passed this" a bit too often. In a recent draft, I said out loud about my neighbor, "Wow, I must remember that this guy doesn't understand" because he obviously didn't get my signals of the first pack and was passing me a color in the second pack that I thought he would most certainly be in instead of the colors I thought I had cut well. I didn't even say that directly to him, just to everyone else on the table. I immediatly felt guilty and apologized, but still, I should have kept my mouth shut. I have this problem of being sometimes rude... it's a bad behavior I've developped in reaction to being rejected during my school years. It happens less and less with time, but I still need to watch myself.
By the way, Helium Squirter was a pretty good card in RGD draft. Far from a bomb, and far from the best common of its color, but emminently playable nonetheless. It's a 3/3 flier for 5 with a lot of versatility thanks to Graft. The cost to give it flying is negligible in comparison to the possibility of pumping and giving flying to one or two other creatures. Being a jerk because someone beats you with such a card, that you don't understand is good, is much worse than cursing his luck.
It's a shame that the players who need the most to understand these sportsmanship principles probably won't read this or will laugh at it with their usual arrogance. Well, we can't do much about it except ignoring them or banning them from shops when they cross the line.
Say I control a Sower of Temptation, and I play Vesuvan Shapeshifter face up, choosing to copy the Sower and steal a creature of my opponent's. I know that if I turn my Shapeshifter face down the next turn, and make it copy something else, I keep the stealed creature; However, if the Shapeshifter leaves play later in whatever non-Sower form he may be, does the creature go back to its former controller ?
The merfolk archetype is just not viable, not tier1 and not tier2. Elves (even a better deck) also isn't viable even tough it uwon one tornament. It just was there on a good time. Teachings beats the nuts out of elves and merfolks, so does any sligh deck.
3 cryptic command vs half of the threats?
Reanimator is a house, try it - this format got the fatties, the reanimator spell and the outlets. I wouldn't play it myself though as i prefer Mono W control and UBw/g teachings.
I suppose nobody reads this thread anymore, but I couldn't help myself. It shouldn't count as necroing 3 days after last post, does it ? I just wanted you all who still hang around here to go read Mike Flores' metagame tables for States/Champs if you didn't already, just to see how wrong S.S. Wilkins and New_Utero were. Long live Elves and Merfolk !!!!
The new Wort's name was revealed by MaRo in his article today, and it doesn't have the word Boggart in it. It's Wort, the Raidmother.
EDIT : Oops, I searched the forums and I found out the question had been asked 3 days ago... sorry about that, it won't happen again.
Finally a clear answer from a reliable judge. Thank you Epeeguy.
Don't insult the other people who tried to or did help.
The haste ability basically reads : ''This creature ignores the summoning sickness rule''. If a creature you didn't control at the beginning of your turn doesn't have haste at the beginning of your declare attackers step, when all attackers are declared at one time, you can't attack with it. If it had haste earlier in the turn and then lost it, it is affected by the rule again and can't attack. One Obsidian Battle-axe can't allow you to attack with more than one ''summoning sick'' creature a turn.
EDIT : Sarnath'd by Condor !
EDIT : On an other topic (I'd make an other post but it's against the forum rules since no one posted after me yet), I'm a bit confused about prowl, in the situations where a rogue creature gets killed while its combat damage is on the stack. The first question about prowl in the article suggests (altough not clearly) that the opponent could prowl if its creature killed by Nameless Inversion didn't lose all creature types just before dying. However, the rules insert quoted in the next question seems to contradict that :
If the creature is not in play when the damage resolves, then it's not under your control, right ? It would mean that this combat damage won't allow prowl.
Toploaders are big, thick and rigid sleeves, wich are most often used to protect very valuable cards. You put the card in a normal opaque sleeve, then you put the sleeved card in the toploader (wich is usually translucid). Many Vintage players sleeve their entire decks using these, in order to perfectly shield their power nine cards. I had no idea these were illegal in sanctionned tournaments, but I understand why : a deck sleeved in toploaders is very hard to shuffle properly. The only easy methods to do so are ones that are not true randomization, like pile shuffle. That means it's much easier to cheat by stacking your deck when you use those, especially since your opponent is most likely not gonna shuffle much and simply cut because it's too darn long and complicated to shuffle such a deck sufficiently. I've never seen a deck sleeved in toploaders outside of unsanctionned vintage, but it sure would be suspicious.
What's more of a pain in the *** to shuffle than a deck sleeved in toploaders ? Well, a Battle of Wits deck sleeved in toploaders, of course ! I faced one in a local tournament a few years ago. I know and trust the guy who was playing it, so I never worried. But hell was it funny !
As long as the cantrip spell says you destroy or remove the creature from the game before drawing a card, then yes, you do. However, if that cantrip is a direct damage spell, you don't, because Maralen wouldn't actually be destroyed until state-based effects are checked, after the spell has finished resolving.
EDIT : While you're at it, what if someone plays Humility instead of Ixidron ?
Hmmm, it seems to me there's a difference between the Darksteel Colossus token situation and the CI question that HH is refering to, aka the one about removing a Lorwyn Incarnation from the game in response to its shuffle trigger. In the first case, you do, in theory, shuffle something in the library, and then it ceases to exist. In the second one, there is no object to shuffle in the library. Maybe that's why the answer given in the article is right.
If Shriekmaw is what triggered Tidesprout Tyrant's ability, then he won't be able to return it to his hand since it is still on the stack when the ability resolves.
However, I agree with you that the answer could have been clearer and more helpful. It really looked like what a judge would say if that question was asked to him during a tournament. This is not a tournament, it's Cranial Insertion, an educational tool. If you don't want to bounce the opponent's only creature with Tidesprout Tyrant, you can bounce any other permanent in play, no matter who controls it. Lands are permanents. The only situation where you would be forced to bounce the opponent's creature is if it's truly the only permanent you can legally target, and I doubt it's the case in the situation described.
1. If such a permanent loses that ability while in play, say, because of Humility, does the ability trigger when the permanent is put into the graveyard because the ability came back while the card was "on its way" to the bin ?
2. Does Yixlid Jailer prevent those abilities from triggering ?
Basically, what I wanna know is if removing such abilities either in play or in the graveyard prevent them from triggering.
Not exactly. It's not part of checking state-based effects, but it happens approximately at the same time. Triggered abilities trigger if the event they're looking for happens during the resolution of a spell or ability BUT they're not put into the stack until a player would get priority, after the spell or ability has finished resolving. This is either right after or right before state-based effects are checked, that I'm not sure, but it doesn't matter too much since both things happen before anyone can play anything.
By the way, Helium Squirter was a pretty good card in RGD draft. Far from a bomb, and far from the best common of its color, but emminently playable nonetheless. It's a 3/3 flier for 5 with a lot of versatility thanks to Graft. The cost to give it flying is negligible in comparison to the possibility of pumping and giving flying to one or two other creatures. Being a jerk because someone beats you with such a card, that you don't understand is good, is much worse than cursing his luck.
It's a shame that the players who need the most to understand these sportsmanship principles probably won't read this or will laugh at it with their usual arrogance. Well, we can't do much about it except ignoring them or banning them from shops when they cross the line.
I suppose nobody reads this thread anymore, but I couldn't help myself. It shouldn't count as necroing 3 days after last post, does it ? I just wanted you all who still hang around here to go read Mike Flores' metagame tables for States/Champs if you didn't already, just to see how wrong S.S. Wilkins and New_Utero were. Long live Elves and Merfolk !!!!