I'm not sure if this is the right place for this since i already know i want to get into legacy infect by liquidating my modern stuff besides my modern infect deck, but what pieces should i buy first? The tropical islands are by far the most expensive cards individually but i could in theory replace them with breeding pools (which of course, will make me lose a certain percentage of games i wouldn't have otherwise).
So far the worst matchup I've found is actually GR tron. Even with early bloodmoons they can still get to a karn or oblivion stone to kill out lock pieces, and they can save the pyroclasms for the magus. Usually we have inevitability but tron always will in this matchup. I'm not actually sure you can really beat GR tron with SaffronOlive's list. So far I'm thinking about running more pithing needles in the board (naming karn most of the time) or some 4 drop we can accelerate into and beat face with (or just giving up on the matchup, though with how popular it is i don't think you can bet on not playing it).
In a world of delvers and pyromancers and eidolon of the great revels (all must kill on sight threats) lightning bolt does a lot more to help you win (i.e helping you not die) than serum visions does. I'm not saying serum visions is a bad card (i ran a playset before KtK came out) but the way the meta is right now you NEED the interaction more than the filtering from serum. DTT honestly is powerful enough to compensate for a lower number of cantrips and filtering, because it will let you find what you need, you just have to live long enough to get there. sure serum fuels delve too, but bolt fuels delve AND removes threats.
It's surprising he did so well with 7 of the top 16 decks having 1 drop creatures. That mana base is most likely wrong or budget. Misty is better than wooded foothills. He has 2 flooded grove and 2 anger of the gods. Other than that, it's pretty standard. But i think you should consolidate the sweepers, he has 6 in his 75. Seems like wasted space.
I was quite skeptical of the four copies of dig myself but I've yet to have a problem with the full playset(feels bad having more than one in an opening hand though). DTT is incredibly powerful (as LSV said it's basically a double demonic tutor in a deck with as much redundancy as this), and you ramp so much with this deck it's not unreasonable to cast it for three or four mana, and in fact is desirable to do so in cases where you want to save spells for snapcaster (prime targets generally being cryptic, electrolyze, scapeshift, counters in a pinch, etc).
I'm of the opinion 3 is the minimum number of DTT's you want now, since in the post KtK meta you can't afford to run durdle cards like serum visions and telling time as your card selection, you need board interaction. DTT effectively lets you use these cheap interactive cards WHILE fueling your ability to dig for what you need.
I'm not certain 4 cryptics is correct; cryptic seems pretty terrible in some common matchups (delver and burn namely) but it's excellent in many others so it's still quite maindeckable at 3. My main deck is the same as LSV's with -1 cryptic for +1 repeal, since repeal still lets you bounce random problem permanents (and bounces stuff with 2 or less cmc at one less mana than cryptic!) and sometimes can set you up for some good tempo plays with only one U, so it's easier to say, repeal and electrolyze or remand in the same turn.
His board seems good but obviously it's meta dependent. No real comment there besides not being too sure about krosan grip. Is he afraid of jeskai ascendency, bogles, blood moon or what? Though, i think bogles could be a real concern since it's wrecks delver and burn; it could see a resurgence, maybe.
Lightning Bolt to start. Then Volcanic Fallout, Electrickery, Izzet Staticaster, maybe Baloths...
But yes, mostly Bolt. How can Scapeshift without Bolts be still viable if Delver picks up and Affinity plus Burn stay at the top? A one-mana removal spell is a necessity now more than ever, even at the cost of a bad topdeck. Paradoxally to me the deck really needs Snapcaster despites the presence of DTT to Snap-Bolt threats.
Yeah, I have a feeling this deck will have to dramatically change it's 75 to stay viable if delver and burn take over the format like it looks like it might. Park's list (the core most people seem to base their 75 on) is tuned to beat slow midrangey decks that modern was defined by until KTK came out.
In my testing i'm more worried about burn than delver, though my sample size is small so it's not conclusive.
Bolt maindeck might definitely be a strong consideration now, and I'm thinking about playing some number of spell snare MD as well. Hell we might need to start playing anger/firespout MD. My biggest concern is cutting too many cantrips, they were essential to making the deck run before. We might have to potentially run more snaps to flashback our removal to make up for the loss of the cantrips, and run peer over telling time to dig more (though i know some people have already made this change).
Dig is gonna be bonkers in here. Thinking as a 2-of instead of 2 depths. Testing will tell if 1 or 2.
I second this, though I'm running the version with Telling time (within 3 cards of Park's list) so I'd cut that instead obv. The deep dig is still good postboard to find alternate wincons too
So here's the first draft of this deck I want to try, i like the idea of having more cantrips to filter through to find alternate wincons in postboard games. I kinda want the 11th mountain but i dunno what to cut. SB is WIP and incomplete (obviously)
He's saying you can still go off as long as you have at least 5 mountains in your library if you have two valakut's either in play or getting them with you scapeshift. You need a minimum of 5 to trigger valakut and having two on the board triggers both of them and basically nets you 6 damage per mountain, for a total of 30 if you have 5.
You need a minimum of 6 to trigger valakut
the card reads "if you control five OTHER mountains," so like my embarrassing loss in g3 at a ptq, 2 valakut 5 mtns is 0 triggers
I'm thinking he's saying: suppose you have x mtns in your deck where x<6 and y mtns in play. As long as x+y=6, then you can scape for a max of 6x damage still.
He's saying you can still go off as long as you have at least 5 mountains in your library if you have two valakut's either in play or getting them with you scapeshift. You need a minimum of 5 to trigger valakut and having two on the board triggers both of them and basically nets you 6 damage per mountain, for a total of 30 if you have 5.
It's based on bobbth's list but i replaced the bloodghasts with an extra copy of seismic assault, liliana, raven's crime, and faithless looting.
I've done some goldfishing and it might be because I'm playing incorrectly, but there have been a few times where I'm stuck on RR and can't get the third R for seismic because all I drew were fetcehs and there are only 2 fetchable R sources in this list. I think i should either replace a fetch wtih an arid mesa (or just add one) or add another shock, either blood crypt or stomping ground.
I also have only goldfished ~15 hands or so, so it might be from a small sample size and i got unlucky.
I'm playing the primetime/omen version (the build that got 4th at GPKC, here:http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=5250&d=230271) and I"m having trouble vs. URx tempo decks, like UR delver and UWR geist. They pack disruption so you have to protect your combo, but can also put you on a pretty fast clock. Is this just a bad matchup, and is there anything you can do about it? What's the proper way to board and play here?
So far the worst matchup I've found is actually GR tron. Even with early bloodmoons they can still get to a karn or oblivion stone to kill out lock pieces, and they can save the pyroclasms for the magus. Usually we have inevitability but tron always will in this matchup. I'm not actually sure you can really beat GR tron with SaffronOlive's list. So far I'm thinking about running more pithing needles in the board (naming karn most of the time) or some 4 drop we can accelerate into and beat face with (or just giving up on the matchup, though with how popular it is i don't think you can bet on not playing it).
I was quite skeptical of the four copies of dig myself but I've yet to have a problem with the full playset(feels bad having more than one in an opening hand though). DTT is incredibly powerful (as LSV said it's basically a double demonic tutor in a deck with as much redundancy as this), and you ramp so much with this deck it's not unreasonable to cast it for three or four mana, and in fact is desirable to do so in cases where you want to save spells for snapcaster (prime targets generally being cryptic, electrolyze, scapeshift, counters in a pinch, etc).
I'm of the opinion 3 is the minimum number of DTT's you want now, since in the post KtK meta you can't afford to run durdle cards like serum visions and telling time as your card selection, you need board interaction. DTT effectively lets you use these cheap interactive cards WHILE fueling your ability to dig for what you need.
I'm not certain 4 cryptics is correct; cryptic seems pretty terrible in some common matchups (delver and burn namely) but it's excellent in many others so it's still quite maindeckable at 3. My main deck is the same as LSV's with -1 cryptic for +1 repeal, since repeal still lets you bounce random problem permanents (and bounces stuff with 2 or less cmc at one less mana than cryptic!) and sometimes can set you up for some good tempo plays with only one U, so it's easier to say, repeal and electrolyze or remand in the same turn.
His board seems good but obviously it's meta dependent. No real comment there besides not being too sure about krosan grip. Is he afraid of jeskai ascendency, bogles, blood moon or what? Though, i think bogles could be a real concern since it's wrecks delver and burn; it could see a resurgence, maybe.
Yeah, I have a feeling this deck will have to dramatically change it's 75 to stay viable if delver and burn take over the format like it looks like it might. Park's list (the core most people seem to base their 75 on) is tuned to beat slow midrangey decks that modern was defined by until KTK came out.
In my testing i'm more worried about burn than delver, though my sample size is small so it's not conclusive.
Bolt maindeck might definitely be a strong consideration now, and I'm thinking about playing some number of spell snare MD as well. Hell we might need to start playing anger/firespout MD. My biggest concern is cutting too many cantrips, they were essential to making the deck run before. We might have to potentially run more snaps to flashback our removal to make up for the loss of the cantrips, and run peer over telling time to dig more (though i know some people have already made this change).
We'll have to wait and see how the meta shapes up
2x Breeding Pool
1x Cascade Bluffs
3x Forest
3x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Mountain
4x Steam Vents
4x Stomping Ground
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2x Electrolyze
3x Izzet Charm
4x Remand
2x Repeal
3x Telling Time
4x Scapeshift
4x Search for Tomorrow
4x Serum Visions
3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Inferno Titan
1x Swan Song
2x Vendilion Clique
So here's the first draft of this deck I want to try, i like the idea of having more cantrips to filter through to find alternate wincons in postboard games. I kinda want the 11th mountain but i dunno what to cut. SB is WIP and incomplete (obviously)
ah ***** you're right, i didn't RTFC.
yeah, i think what you said is what he meant
3x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
1x Forest
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Godless Shrine
2x Graven Cairns
1x Horizon Canopy
2x Marsh Flats
1x Mountain
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Raging Ravine
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Treetop Village
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Flame Jab
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Life from the Loam
4x Lingering Souls
3x Raven's Crime
4x Abrupt Decay
3x Liliana of the Veil
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Young Pyromancer
3x Seismic Assault
It's based on bobbth's list but i replaced the bloodghasts with an extra copy of seismic assault, liliana, raven's crime, and faithless looting.
I've done some goldfishing and it might be because I'm playing incorrectly, but there have been a few times where I'm stuck on RR and can't get the third R for seismic because all I drew were fetcehs and there are only 2 fetchable R sources in this list. I think i should either replace a fetch wtih an arid mesa (or just add one) or add another shock, either blood crypt or stomping ground.
I also have only goldfished ~15 hands or so, so it might be from a small sample size and i got unlucky.
How Competitive: Local, PTQ/GP down the road
Favorite Cards/Colors: Red, blue, black, lightning bolt, snapcaster mage, grim lavamancer, young pyromancer,
Budget: not sure yet
Staples Owned: 4 Scalding tarn, 4 arid mesa, 2 misty rainforest, 4 snapcaster, Sacred foundry, 4 steam vents, 4 Remand
I like delver style decks but I dunno how viable delver is in this format.