Ignore the new Angrath. He is a dumpster fire. I'm not sure why WotC would print cards that are harder to cast than their same-CMC counterparts (Ob Nixilis, Sarkhan, etc) and somehow just make them stone worse. I'd hate Angrath less if he came in at 5 loyalty, but he doesn't even ult as fast as 4CMC Chandra, so why play him ever?
Ignore the new Angrath. He is a dumpster fire. I'm not sure why WotC would print cards that are harder to cast than their same-CMC counterparts (Ob Nixilis, Sarkhan, etc) and somehow just make them stone worse. I'd hate Angrath less if he came in at 5 loyalty, but he doesn't even ult as fast as 4CMC Chandra, so why play him ever?
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here. This was mildly upsetting to look at. Normally I get somewhat excited when a great player builds a deck, but Gerard Fabiano is a different kind of top player. I'm convinced that he can take any pile of cards in his binder to a tournament and win with them. This is cool conceptually, hiding behind Ensnaring Bridge and forcing discard while you try to ult one of the walkers, but the lack of removal bothers me greatly. No Bolt, no Terminate, no main deck Fatal Push. Just a man and his Dreadbore. Night's Whisper and Thoughtseize with eight fetch lands and three shock lands crushes your life total.
He made a cool deck and I'm enjoying it, but it's a hard meta call. 4x Relic of Progenitus and 4x Ensnaring Bridge need to be the cards that win the game. If they are not, you are not winning. I don't hate the concept but it requires tuning based on metagame shifts even harder than the decks we already play.
White splash seems unnecessary. This is an aggro version, so if you're on the beatdown plan, then you usually don't need the White splash.
You need more than 8 fetch lands for Empty the Pits. I wouldn't play less than 10. Lavaclaw Reaches is also rough because having tapped sources on the aggro version is difficult.
Play a Grim Lavamancer somewhere in the 75 to go with the Delve strategy. Works great in the Sideboard when you board out your Empty the Pits copies.
I suppose the reality is that they're the rock to our scissors, until we get a better tool against them.
Which is a shame, for me - there's like five Tron decks which show up in my meta semi-regularly.
I appreciate your candid, though sobering response.
If you're truly against Tron frequently (say, once per event minimum), then there are ways around the deck. I play against it every now and again, but not enough to shape my sideboard for the matchup. Crumble to Dust is still an option, and I also recommend discard outlets like Blackmail and Wrench Mind with additional copies of Surgical Extraction. Molten Rain is also an option. If you really need to beat Tron at all times, it requires an entire package of cards.
Have had success with my list, but there's one kink in the armor.
RG Tron has been my bane in my meta. What options do we have for the sideboard against them?
Feels like my only real option is to mulligan to Blood Moon and hope I draw several Dreadbore - and even then I feel like I'm struggling to keep up...
If it feels like you're struggling to keep up, that's because you are.
RG Tron is not a good matchup, despite the fact that we play Blood Moon. The only times I've ever had success against RG or BG Tron have been when I played Goblin Rabblemaster, because at least it can close the game out very quickly and not let my opponent have the time to get their mana. The problem with the "Blood Moon beats Tron Lands" theory is that most hands in our decks won't outright end the game, even with a Demigod of Revenge as the win condition. That's still a spell being played on turn 5, and requiring 4 attacks to get to 20 damage. Meanwhile, the opponent can still cast a Wurmcoil Engine, Karn Liberated, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and even an Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger through Blood Moon because those spells are for Generic mana. I personally wish that Karn Liberated and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon were errata'd into having some form of necessity for colorless mana, forcing the Tron lands to play Wastes and be a little bit less greedy. Tron is, quite plainly, a stupid deck that makes you believe that 1+1+1=7, and goes against years of inherent Magic design. Dreadbore doesn't really stop you from losing the game to a single Karn or Ugin activation. It's just a bad, incredibly variant matchup where you need to hope to screw over your opponent with Thoughtseize(s) into Blood Moon into killing them before they slam their spells anyway.
In all seriousness, it could be worth sidboarding some prison-ish artifacts like Chalice of the Void and Thorn of Amethyst for the combo matchups... Then again, maybe BR just isn't cut out for a meta with lots of Leyline of Sanctity protected combo - I'll admit I haven't seen the card in my meta, so it's a bit beyond my experience.
I absolutely love the Thorn of Amethyst idea for combo, definitely worth testing. I'm on the Boil plan right now as we are actually one of the most well-matched decks against a lot of combo, since we play both Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize. Since most combo decks target us as players, Leyline of Sanctity is worth thinking about as well. Chalice of the Void is fine, but it's expensive and can hurt us as well. Other than Storm and Ad Nauseum, are we worried about any other combo decks that our sideboard cards don't already hit?
How are you folks dealing with Gifts Storm? I'm finding it to be a bit of a pain. I can win a stray round here and there by assiduously removing Electromancer and Baral, and planting a Goblin Rabblemaster for a quick clock, but it's not that consistent. I've considered Slaughter Games for the sideboard, or maybe upping Surgical Extraction to two copies (sideboarded). Any thoughts?
Gifts Storm is definitely a pain. They have many options, but fortunately, so do we. One of the best ways I've been able to beat the deck is to save Rakdos Charm to exile their graveyard at instant speed, before they can truly "storm off." Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize early are quite helpful also, since they buy you time. Surgical Extraction is fine against them, but the deck can still go off without a piece, making it an obnoxious combo deck. Also, Nihil Spellbomb is not bad against them. They are technically a graveyard-based deck in many games, and against our discard package, they are definitely a graveyard deck.
Decks like this are why I still play 3x Rakdos Charm and only 1x Surgical Extraction in my sideboard, and that has been true for many months. I also have a 1x Boil in my sideboard right now, to take away their mana base (hopefully) after making them heavily discard.
I usually board out the Anger of the Gods and Blood Moon copies and maybe a Terminate or two, leaving Fatal Push to kill Goblin Electromancer and Baral, Chief of Compliance. If you hit a Collective Brutality on one of their creatures, your win rate % skyrockets as well. Kolaghan's Command is another discard spell that also happens to hit their creatures, but if you play 4x, it's not a bad thing to play one or two less copies of this. Any creatures in my sideboard come in as well, so Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is automatic. Taking them off of their game plan doesn't mean letting them re-stabilize. Sometimes you need to just kill them.
@SirFrancois If we hit a metagame where indestructible creatures were everywhere, I think we are still better off playing sacrifice effects. Tragic Slip requires multiple kill spells to become activated and we play a lot into an empty board.
@Keiichi I find myself sideboarding out some number of Kolaghan's Command in certain matchups, but I don't like the argument that your friend made that it is "less powerful without Snapcaster Mage." That logic can also be applied to any instant or sorcery in Magic. We are simply not a Blue deck, but that doesn't deter us from playing other strong spells that are theoretically stronger with Snapcaster Mage, such as Terminate. We simply apply it to a different use. Recurring Pia and Kiran Nalaar gives us many creatures for low amounts of investment. Discarding Demigod of Revenge and not finding a second copy means that we need to get it back sometimes. It's not just the recursion though, because the other effects are much more practical for us. Using one card to kill a creature and make the opponent discard is about as close to the definition of "Two-For-One" as we can get. Making opponents who have no cards in hand discard a card at the end of their draw step is incredibly powerful, which is why most discard spells are sorcery speed. Also, the hate cards become even more relevant against Affinity and Lantern Control for the shatter effect should we run into them in the main deck. It also hits random other artifacts, such as Oblivion Stone in Tron, Krark-Clan Ironworks in the KCI Combo deck, and sideboard cards such as Pithing Needle, Ensnaring Bridge, and Grafdigger's Cage. Of course, this doesn't mean you need to play FOUR copies like I do (Affinity is like a disease in my metagame), but I would never recommend going below two copies.
The struggle that I've been having is finding the right balance for the rest of the deck to handle the variety of decks in my meta, to get to the point that I'm "in the game" enough for the top-end package to close it out.
The sideboard is another matter, but having a main deck of the correct ~27 1 and 2 cmc spells is proving a challenge. Thoughts?
Ignoring the sideboard right now since that's secondary.
While Dejadal is correct in his assessment that I am back on Demigod of Revenge, this has not stopped me from playing quite a large number of Planeswalkers with them even still. The difference between my deck and your deck is that I've completely cut Lightning Bolt from the 75. I know it sounds insane, but I got really sick and tired of drawing it and having it feel subpar, only being good against aggressive decks like Affinity, Elves, and Goblins and sometimes pressuring Planeswalkers that the opponents control.
I've done fairly well with the deck since I cut Bolt, going 12-2 in rounds at FNMs and Monday Night events. Now, none of this is necessarily anything to write home about, because they're just FNMs. However, without Bolt, I was able to move some cards in the sideboard to the main deck, freeing up some sideboard slots to shore up more matchups while adding some supporting spells. Here's where I wound up:
From testing, I realized that all of the aggro matchups that Lightning Bolt was "helpful" in, Anger of the Gods would more often times win the game outright. Setting the opponent back by getting heavy removal on their little creatures on turn 3 is insanely powerful, especially in the aforementioned aggro decks. It also gives you a way to beat Dredge game 1 if you run into the deck.
With Jeskai decks on the rise, we already have game against them with Blood Moon and Demigod of Revenge. However, I threw a Boil into the sideboard because it can also help take a game over at instant speed. Trying to mess around with Fulminator Mage was just too slow against decks with a control plan, because the odds of us resolving a Kolaghan's Command to repeatedly recur the Fulminator Mage are very slim, and also very mana intensive. It also only wants to be a one-of in the sideboard, so there's not a lot of sideboard space expended.
Liliana of the Veil is more powerful now than it has been in awhile, because it is great against the Death's Shadow lists if their board is empty, and it is very strong against Scapeshift lists as well. Not to mention it's a great help in battles of attrition such as Skred Red and Jund. I stuck with three of her in the main deck, along with a pair of Liliana, the Last Hope. LTLH often times has a copy boarded out, unless the opponent has some kind of token generator or is a weak creature deck, like Bant Spirits.
Being back up to 4 Kolaghan's Command feels amazing, because Affinity never dies and having a lot of ways to answer that deck is critical. If you don't have them, you can lose in one turn. Also, not playing Bolt makes the Affinity matchup harder. I am currently considering going up to 3 copies of Fatal Push and trimming down a copy of LTLH, but for now, LTLH has done much more for me and is also backbreaking against decks like Affinity just like Fatal Push is. Sometimes though it's just nice to have the extra one-mana removal.
Since Bedlam Reveler has been shelved, as I don't think this is the deck he wants to see as much play in, Gurmag Angler as a one-of is back in. Bedlam Reveler's biggest problem was drawing too many top-heavy cards and being unable to cast him. With Gurmag Angler, and especially because I'm up to 9 fetch lands, it's easier to cast the beast on an early turn against aggressive decks, and even easier to cast him for cheap while leaving up removal as the game progresses. I'm glad the big ol' Zombie Fish is back in the deck. He has been far more consistent.
I would like to find room for a Hazoret the Fervent as well. I've been sold on this card for some time, I just don't own a copy. I also am not sure what would get trimmed. I'm really happy with how Gurmag Angler has performed, so maybe one of the LTLH copies gets shelved after all? Feels like it might be too many win conditions. I'm still working on that slot.
Having six discard spells in the main deck has been excellent. I board into Thoughtseize quite a bit, but I'm not sure if I would miss it if the sideboard copy wasn't there. It's on the chopping block, along with Boil, in case I need to move an LTLH to the sideboard for a Hazoret or another Fatal Push.
That's all I got for now. @Keiichi you're definitely on the right track. How good has Damnation been? Are there times you might have liked Anger of the Gods over it?
Yeah, I'm back on Demigod of Revenge. I reverted to my old list from December that had been tearing it up, now that Death's Shadow is less dominant, and sure enough, I went undefeated last night. The card is definitely the best finisher we have, even with the Planeswalker rule change. Chandra, Flamecaller is unreliable as an option and you need to dig for the maximum one copy. Chandra, Torch of Defiance and Pia and Kiran Nalaar are still definitely good enough, but complimenting them with Demigods is just a good idea.
@smashpacman - Glad you're reporting again. Thinking about the rules change lead me back to this thread and starting to play this deck again after having fun with Liliana Tribal after SaffronOlives's video the other day. I had thought about Chandra, Pyromaster, but she seems less good here than in Jund. I do think that Chandra Nalaar is worth testing though since her ultimate read, "Win the game" and it happens so quickly like you said.
But I think the real benefit comes in the versatility of Lilianas now and keeping them from being dead cards. But the lack of 2-drops in this decks makes it really dependent on making land drops IMHO.
I did some testing online the other day and P&K are truly great. Games it landed were games I won.
Do you think Pyromaster would be any good here? I had also thought about the new 5-drop liliana or Liliana Vess, since she can tutor up what we may need for next turn, dodge opposing Thoughtseize, and not conflict with existing Lilianas anymore. The combo of Veil and Last hope are enough to win in Liliana Tribal when they are both out, and both this deck and that one run a similar disruption/kill package. Have you thought about Vess? Or do you think there would be mana issues with blood moon there too? I was considering adding more fetches to try to mitigate it. For now I just copy/pasted your mana base.
I've considered Liliana Vess, but she doesn't generate the actual card advantage. Also, for a tutor effect that late in the game, we often times need the card in our hand. I am still keeping an eye on Liliana Vess for a few reasons:
- If she is cast on Turn 5 onto a stable (or even relatively stable) board, and we are not holding a land, we can get Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
- If she is cast on Turn 5 onto a stable (or even relatively stable) board, and we are holding a land, we can get Chandra, Flamecaller.
- If she is cast on Turn 5 onto a stable (or even relatively stable) board, and we are holding a land, and we are playing a copy of Wurmcoil Engine or Grave Titan, we can slam either one of those cards on Turn 6 and probably win the game.
- If she is cast in a good matchup for Blood Moon, and we have not yet found a Blood Moon, we can analyze how effective it would be the next turn, and tutor for it.
The downside is that she does not impact the board in any other way than her tutor effect. On that token, I could make an argument for other tutor effects on Turn 5. Increasing Ambition, Beseech the Queen, and even a general Diabolic Tutor are all fine options in that slot for the effect. On the other hand, the Liliana Vess could just BE the card that we would most often tutor for, meaning we can just cast it.
I'm not sure how impactful the +1 is. It's very good against Control decks and if Jeskai Control keeps up at its increasing pace, I will revisit her.
Chandra Nalaar was a spur-the-moment test piece before FNM that I decided on with not a lot of prep work. The reason? Because it comes in at 6 loyalty and can immediately go up to 7 loyalty. Also, the ultimate happens a turn sooner than Ob Nixilis Reignited. Sarkhan, The Dragonspeaker also turns on some of the opponent's possible removal spells, such as Path to Exile.
Do I think it is a permanent slot?
No.
However, did I ultimate it?
Twice.
Sometimes I just need to have some fun on a Friday night. It did put in a ton of work, to be fair, and might actually warrant a bit more testing. Ob Nixilis Reignited is probably better in the slot, but I also did have a lot of issues where Blood Moon left me with only one black source. So it might be safer.
Also, having the third Pia and Kiran Nalaar was pretty damn good and that card is insane.
Okay, it's been awhile since I've done any kind of tournament report. This one is going to be a smaller one and slightly less 'important' because it was just an FNM, but I didn't play against anyone who wasn't a solid player at my local store so I figure it's good enough to throw in the pile.
First thing's first...with the new rule changes to the Planeswalkers and to Blood Moon, this archetype has gotten changed quite a bit in one night. And I'm VERY excited about it. The deck ran like a well-oiled machine, and even in games where I drew too much land or not enough land, I still wound up pretty far ahead and went undefeated through the night.
There are some notable new cards. Chandra Nalaar was something I just wanted to play around with at FNM. She comes it at 6 counters and immediately goes up to 7. Her +1 is fairly weak and her -X stops her purpose so it was only really used in emergencies. However, it only takes her two turns after cast to ultimate, and the -8 closes out games. On the land base, Lavaclaw Reaches becomes FAR better with the Blood Moon rule change. Since having a Blood Moon in play allows the Lavaclaw Reaches to come in untapped, it is functionally just a Mountain later in games, and can be an alternate win condition in games where there is no Blood Moon. I'm not sold on Lavaclaw Reaches yet and I am considering both Temple of Malice and Canyon Slough in that slot still, so I'll tinker with the land base a little bit. I'm also considering going back down to 8 fetch lands to play two of the aforementioned three cards.
===Quick tournament report===
Round 1 - Played against Abzan Midrange. The first game, Blood Moon was a force and prevented a lot of the double-black spells that need to be cast. I got into a weird spot where the opponent had two forests in play on turn four and dropped a pair of Tarmogoyf, so I needed to play a Liliana of the Veil as a removal spell and a Dreadbore as the other removal spell despite fearing Planeswalkers. I was able to use a Chandra, Torch of Defiance late game to put his Planeswalkers and creatures on notice, and a Gurmag Angler took away his third Tarmogoyf's power quite a bit. The second game, less Blood Moon, more Anger of the Gods for Lingering Souls tokens. Chandra, Torch of Defiance went the distance yet again. Win 2-0
Round 2 - Played against Scapeshift. Got Blood Moon out in the first game just fast enough to prevent my opponent from comboing off and killing me. Got both Liliana of the Veil and Liliana, the Last Hope in play the second game, and was able to set them both up fast enough with discard spells and the +1 abilities of both Planeswalkers. Win 2-0
Round 3 - Played against GW Counters. The removal spells are difficult for this deck to set up through. The first game my opponent drew quite a few creatures into a Rhonas the Indomitable, and I had to hide behind a Gurmag Angler and use it as a chump blocker for a Kitchen Finks that was swung at my Chandra, Torch of Defiance as a 5/4. However, I had 4 lands in play and the +1 from Chandra, Torch of Defiance added two red mana to my mana pool, and I cast a Chandra, Flamecaller and used her -X for 2 to destroy all his creatures except for Rhonas. That left me with two Chandras in play and him with one creature. The second game I was able to get a Grafdigger's Cage out after some disruption, and cast a Chandra Nalaar. She was quickly able to use her -8 and wipe his board and put him to a low life count. A few more +1 activations (She easily got to 9) and a Lightning Bolt killed him. Win 2-0
It was a fun evening of MTG, but this deck feels really, really good with the Planeswalker rule change. There are some crazy things that you can do, and Chandra, Torch of Defiance feels like the glue that holds it all together. If this deck keeps with the test draws that it has shown, I won't need to change that much about it. However, I will say that any of you on the Demigod of Revenge build are safer now than you have been in awhile. Control decks are on the up-trend, and that version of this deck can destroy those Control matchups. The graveyard hate is still there, but you can play around it.
So I did some playtesting last night with a list similar to the Rakdos Superfriends you posted, and I found myself running out of cards/not drawing what I needed (even with 2 Nights Whisper and a Phyrexian Arena). The card disadvantage sucks, but I found myself really missing the filtering of Faithless Looting. Is there any way you think we could fit some alternate deck manipulation in there?
I've been adjusting the list slowly. That one was just a rough draft. I'm considering adding another win condition or two, depending on how my games go this evening. Right now I'm up to 4x Terminate and a Dreadbore all in the main deck. I'm thinking that 2 Thoughtseize might be enough. Still working on the options.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance begs to differ.
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here. This was mildly upsetting to look at. Normally I get somewhat excited when a great player builds a deck, but Gerard Fabiano is a different kind of top player. I'm convinced that he can take any pile of cards in his binder to a tournament and win with them. This is cool conceptually, hiding behind Ensnaring Bridge and forcing discard while you try to ult one of the walkers, but the lack of removal bothers me greatly. No Bolt, no Terminate, no main deck Fatal Push. Just a man and his Dreadbore. Night's Whisper and Thoughtseize with eight fetch lands and three shock lands crushes your life total.
He made a cool deck and I'm enjoying it, but it's a hard meta call. 4x Relic of Progenitus and 4x Ensnaring Bridge need to be the cards that win the game. If they are not, you are not winning. I don't hate the concept but it requires tuning based on metagame shifts even harder than the decks we already play.
White splash seems unnecessary. This is an aggro version, so if you're on the beatdown plan, then you usually don't need the White splash.
You need more than 8 fetch lands for Empty the Pits. I wouldn't play less than 10. Lavaclaw Reaches is also rough because having tapped sources on the aggro version is difficult.
Play a Grim Lavamancer somewhere in the 75 to go with the Delve strategy. Works great in the Sideboard when you board out your Empty the Pits copies.
If you're truly against Tron frequently (say, once per event minimum), then there are ways around the deck. I play against it every now and again, but not enough to shape my sideboard for the matchup. Crumble to Dust is still an option, and I also recommend discard outlets like Blackmail and Wrench Mind with additional copies of Surgical Extraction. Molten Rain is also an option. If you really need to beat Tron at all times, it requires an entire package of cards.
If it feels like you're struggling to keep up, that's because you are.
RG Tron is not a good matchup, despite the fact that we play Blood Moon. The only times I've ever had success against RG or BG Tron have been when I played Goblin Rabblemaster, because at least it can close the game out very quickly and not let my opponent have the time to get their mana. The problem with the "Blood Moon beats Tron Lands" theory is that most hands in our decks won't outright end the game, even with a Demigod of Revenge as the win condition. That's still a spell being played on turn 5, and requiring 4 attacks to get to 20 damage. Meanwhile, the opponent can still cast a Wurmcoil Engine, Karn Liberated, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and even an Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger through Blood Moon because those spells are for Generic mana. I personally wish that Karn Liberated and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon were errata'd into having some form of necessity for colorless mana, forcing the Tron lands to play Wastes and be a little bit less greedy. Tron is, quite plainly, a stupid deck that makes you believe that 1+1+1=7, and goes against years of inherent Magic design. Dreadbore doesn't really stop you from losing the game to a single Karn or Ugin activation. It's just a bad, incredibly variant matchup where you need to hope to screw over your opponent with Thoughtseize(s) into Blood Moon into killing them before they slam their spells anyway.
I absolutely love the Thorn of Amethyst idea for combo, definitely worth testing. I'm on the Boil plan right now as we are actually one of the most well-matched decks against a lot of combo, since we play both Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize. Since most combo decks target us as players, Leyline of Sanctity is worth thinking about as well. Chalice of the Void is fine, but it's expensive and can hurt us as well. Other than Storm and Ad Nauseum, are we worried about any other combo decks that our sideboard cards don't already hit?
Gifts Storm is definitely a pain. They have many options, but fortunately, so do we. One of the best ways I've been able to beat the deck is to save Rakdos Charm to exile their graveyard at instant speed, before they can truly "storm off." Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize early are quite helpful also, since they buy you time. Surgical Extraction is fine against them, but the deck can still go off without a piece, making it an obnoxious combo deck. Also, Nihil Spellbomb is not bad against them. They are technically a graveyard-based deck in many games, and against our discard package, they are definitely a graveyard deck.
Decks like this are why I still play 3x Rakdos Charm and only 1x Surgical Extraction in my sideboard, and that has been true for many months. I also have a 1x Boil in my sideboard right now, to take away their mana base (hopefully) after making them heavily discard.
I usually board out the Anger of the Gods and Blood Moon copies and maybe a Terminate or two, leaving Fatal Push to kill Goblin Electromancer and Baral, Chief of Compliance. If you hit a Collective Brutality on one of their creatures, your win rate % skyrockets as well. Kolaghan's Command is another discard spell that also happens to hit their creatures, but if you play 4x, it's not a bad thing to play one or two less copies of this. Any creatures in my sideboard come in as well, so Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is automatic. Taking them off of their game plan doesn't mean letting them re-stabilize. Sometimes you need to just kill them.
With my deck above, my sideboard plan would be:
-3 Anger of the Gods
-4 Blood Moon
-2 Terminate
-1 Liliana, the Last Hope
+2 Collective Brutality
+1 Boil
+3 Rakdos Charm
+1 Surgical Extraction
+1 Thoughtseize
+2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
@Keiichi I find myself sideboarding out some number of Kolaghan's Command in certain matchups, but I don't like the argument that your friend made that it is "less powerful without Snapcaster Mage." That logic can also be applied to any instant or sorcery in Magic. We are simply not a Blue deck, but that doesn't deter us from playing other strong spells that are theoretically stronger with Snapcaster Mage, such as Terminate. We simply apply it to a different use. Recurring Pia and Kiran Nalaar gives us many creatures for low amounts of investment. Discarding Demigod of Revenge and not finding a second copy means that we need to get it back sometimes. It's not just the recursion though, because the other effects are much more practical for us. Using one card to kill a creature and make the opponent discard is about as close to the definition of "Two-For-One" as we can get. Making opponents who have no cards in hand discard a card at the end of their draw step is incredibly powerful, which is why most discard spells are sorcery speed. Also, the hate cards become even more relevant against Affinity and Lantern Control for the shatter effect should we run into them in the main deck. It also hits random other artifacts, such as Oblivion Stone in Tron, Krark-Clan Ironworks in the KCI Combo deck, and sideboard cards such as Pithing Needle, Ensnaring Bridge, and Grafdigger's Cage. Of course, this doesn't mean you need to play FOUR copies like I do (Affinity is like a disease in my metagame), but I would never recommend going below two copies.
While Dejadal is correct in his assessment that I am back on Demigod of Revenge, this has not stopped me from playing quite a large number of Planeswalkers with them even still. The difference between my deck and your deck is that I've completely cut Lightning Bolt from the 75. I know it sounds insane, but I got really sick and tired of drawing it and having it feel subpar, only being good against aggressive decks like Affinity, Elves, and Goblins and sometimes pressuring Planeswalkers that the opponents control.
I've done fairly well with the deck since I cut Bolt, going 12-2 in rounds at FNMs and Monday Night events. Now, none of this is necessarily anything to write home about, because they're just FNMs. However, without Bolt, I was able to move some cards in the sideboard to the main deck, freeing up some sideboard slots to shore up more matchups while adding some supporting spells. Here's where I wound up:
4 Demigod of Revenge
1 Gurmag Angler
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
4 Terminate
4 Kolaghan's Command
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Blood Moon
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Graven Cairns
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Smoldering Marsh
5 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 To The Slaughter
1 Dreadbore
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Thoughtseize
1 Boil
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Collective Brutality
3 Rakdos Charm
1 Surgical Extraction
From testing, I realized that all of the aggro matchups that Lightning Bolt was "helpful" in, Anger of the Gods would more often times win the game outright. Setting the opponent back by getting heavy removal on their little creatures on turn 3 is insanely powerful, especially in the aforementioned aggro decks. It also gives you a way to beat Dredge game 1 if you run into the deck.
With Jeskai decks on the rise, we already have game against them with Blood Moon and Demigod of Revenge. However, I threw a Boil into the sideboard because it can also help take a game over at instant speed. Trying to mess around with Fulminator Mage was just too slow against decks with a control plan, because the odds of us resolving a Kolaghan's Command to repeatedly recur the Fulminator Mage are very slim, and also very mana intensive. It also only wants to be a one-of in the sideboard, so there's not a lot of sideboard space expended.
Liliana of the Veil is more powerful now than it has been in awhile, because it is great against the Death's Shadow lists if their board is empty, and it is very strong against Scapeshift lists as well. Not to mention it's a great help in battles of attrition such as Skred Red and Jund. I stuck with three of her in the main deck, along with a pair of Liliana, the Last Hope. LTLH often times has a copy boarded out, unless the opponent has some kind of token generator or is a weak creature deck, like Bant Spirits.
Being back up to 4 Kolaghan's Command feels amazing, because Affinity never dies and having a lot of ways to answer that deck is critical. If you don't have them, you can lose in one turn. Also, not playing Bolt makes the Affinity matchup harder. I am currently considering going up to 3 copies of Fatal Push and trimming down a copy of LTLH, but for now, LTLH has done much more for me and is also backbreaking against decks like Affinity just like Fatal Push is. Sometimes though it's just nice to have the extra one-mana removal.
Since Bedlam Reveler has been shelved, as I don't think this is the deck he wants to see as much play in, Gurmag Angler as a one-of is back in. Bedlam Reveler's biggest problem was drawing too many top-heavy cards and being unable to cast him. With Gurmag Angler, and especially because I'm up to 9 fetch lands, it's easier to cast the beast on an early turn against aggressive decks, and even easier to cast him for cheap while leaving up removal as the game progresses. I'm glad the big ol' Zombie Fish is back in the deck. He has been far more consistent.
I would like to find room for a Hazoret the Fervent as well. I've been sold on this card for some time, I just don't own a copy. I also am not sure what would get trimmed. I'm really happy with how Gurmag Angler has performed, so maybe one of the LTLH copies gets shelved after all? Feels like it might be too many win conditions. I'm still working on that slot.
Having six discard spells in the main deck has been excellent. I board into Thoughtseize quite a bit, but I'm not sure if I would miss it if the sideboard copy wasn't there. It's on the chopping block, along with Boil, in case I need to move an LTLH to the sideboard for a Hazoret or another Fatal Push.
That's all I got for now. @Keiichi you're definitely on the right track. How good has Damnation been? Are there times you might have liked Anger of the Gods over it?
I've considered Liliana Vess, but she doesn't generate the actual card advantage. Also, for a tutor effect that late in the game, we often times need the card in our hand. I am still keeping an eye on Liliana Vess for a few reasons:
- If she is cast on Turn 5 onto a stable (or even relatively stable) board, and we are not holding a land, we can get Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
- If she is cast on Turn 5 onto a stable (or even relatively stable) board, and we are holding a land, we can get Chandra, Flamecaller.
- If she is cast on Turn 5 onto a stable (or even relatively stable) board, and we are holding a land, and we are playing a copy of Wurmcoil Engine or Grave Titan, we can slam either one of those cards on Turn 6 and probably win the game.
- If she is cast in a good matchup for Blood Moon, and we have not yet found a Blood Moon, we can analyze how effective it would be the next turn, and tutor for it.
The downside is that she does not impact the board in any other way than her tutor effect. On that token, I could make an argument for other tutor effects on Turn 5. Increasing Ambition, Beseech the Queen, and even a general Diabolic Tutor are all fine options in that slot for the effect. On the other hand, the Liliana Vess could just BE the card that we would most often tutor for, meaning we can just cast it.
I'm not sure how impactful the +1 is. It's very good against Control decks and if Jeskai Control keeps up at its increasing pace, I will revisit her.
Chandra Nalaar was a spur-the-moment test piece before FNM that I decided on with not a lot of prep work. The reason? Because it comes in at 6 loyalty and can immediately go up to 7 loyalty. Also, the ultimate happens a turn sooner than Ob Nixilis Reignited. Sarkhan, The Dragonspeaker also turns on some of the opponent's possible removal spells, such as Path to Exile.
Do I think it is a permanent slot?
No.
However, did I ultimate it?
Twice.
Sometimes I just need to have some fun on a Friday night. It did put in a ton of work, to be fair, and might actually warrant a bit more testing. Ob Nixilis Reignited is probably better in the slot, but I also did have a lot of issues where Blood Moon left me with only one black source. So it might be safer.
Also, having the third Pia and Kiran Nalaar was pretty damn good and that card is insane.
First thing's first...with the new rule changes to the Planeswalkers and to Blood Moon, this archetype has gotten changed quite a bit in one night. And I'm VERY excited about it. The deck ran like a well-oiled machine, and even in games where I drew too much land or not enough land, I still wound up pretty far ahead and went undefeated through the night.
Here is the list that I wound up running tonight:
1 Gurmag Angler
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
4 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Blood Moon
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Chandra Nalaar
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Smoldering Marsh
5 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Thoughtseize
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Collective Brutality
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Rakdos Charm
There are some notable new cards. Chandra Nalaar was something I just wanted to play around with at FNM. She comes it at 6 counters and immediately goes up to 7. Her +1 is fairly weak and her -X stops her purpose so it was only really used in emergencies. However, it only takes her two turns after cast to ultimate, and the -8 closes out games. On the land base, Lavaclaw Reaches becomes FAR better with the Blood Moon rule change. Since having a Blood Moon in play allows the Lavaclaw Reaches to come in untapped, it is functionally just a Mountain later in games, and can be an alternate win condition in games where there is no Blood Moon. I'm not sold on Lavaclaw Reaches yet and I am considering both Temple of Malice and Canyon Slough in that slot still, so I'll tinker with the land base a little bit. I'm also considering going back down to 8 fetch lands to play two of the aforementioned three cards.
===Quick tournament report===
Round 1 - Played against Abzan Midrange. The first game, Blood Moon was a force and prevented a lot of the double-black spells that need to be cast. I got into a weird spot where the opponent had two forests in play on turn four and dropped a pair of Tarmogoyf, so I needed to play a Liliana of the Veil as a removal spell and a Dreadbore as the other removal spell despite fearing Planeswalkers. I was able to use a Chandra, Torch of Defiance late game to put his Planeswalkers and creatures on notice, and a Gurmag Angler took away his third Tarmogoyf's power quite a bit. The second game, less Blood Moon, more Anger of the Gods for Lingering Souls tokens. Chandra, Torch of Defiance went the distance yet again. Win 2-0
Round 2 - Played against Scapeshift. Got Blood Moon out in the first game just fast enough to prevent my opponent from comboing off and killing me. Got both Liliana of the Veil and Liliana, the Last Hope in play the second game, and was able to set them both up fast enough with discard spells and the +1 abilities of both Planeswalkers. Win 2-0
Round 3 - Played against GW Counters. The removal spells are difficult for this deck to set up through. The first game my opponent drew quite a few creatures into a Rhonas the Indomitable, and I had to hide behind a Gurmag Angler and use it as a chump blocker for a Kitchen Finks that was swung at my Chandra, Torch of Defiance as a 5/4. However, I had 4 lands in play and the +1 from Chandra, Torch of Defiance added two red mana to my mana pool, and I cast a Chandra, Flamecaller and used her -X for 2 to destroy all his creatures except for Rhonas. That left me with two Chandras in play and him with one creature. The second game I was able to get a Grafdigger's Cage out after some disruption, and cast a Chandra Nalaar. She was quickly able to use her -8 and wipe his board and put him to a low life count. A few more +1 activations (She easily got to 9) and a Lightning Bolt killed him. Win 2-0
It was a fun evening of MTG, but this deck feels really, really good with the Planeswalker rule change. There are some crazy things that you can do, and Chandra, Torch of Defiance feels like the glue that holds it all together. If this deck keeps with the test draws that it has shown, I won't need to change that much about it. However, I will say that any of you on the Demigod of Revenge build are safer now than you have been in awhile. Control decks are on the up-trend, and that version of this deck can destroy those Control matchups. The graveyard hate is still there, but you can play around it.
That's all for now!
I've been adjusting the list slowly. That one was just a rough draft. I'm considering adding another win condition or two, depending on how my games go this evening. Right now I'm up to 4x Terminate and a Dreadbore all in the main deck. I'm thinking that 2 Thoughtseize might be enough. Still working on the options.