It gets Crucible of Worlds, Urza's Incubator, Ashnod's Altar, Phyrexian Altar, Rings of Brighthearth, Basalt Monolith which goes infinite with the rings, and I am sure other combo pieces and utility cards. What is not to love?
No matter how much you want to fight it or pretend that it isn't true, magic is a game of resource management.
You are limited to drawing ome card each turn, playing one land each turn, and attacking once each turn all at once.
There are cards within the game which bend or even outright break these rules... but they are still essential to the core game.
Magic is a game and Commander is a format where Demonic Tutor at 1B is super strong, but Diabolic Tutor at 2BB is unplayably slow. Resource development and management are the core of MtG.
I had an elf deck that had some untap effects + Timberwatch Elf + Coat of arms + Ambush Commander and improved overrun sorcery that grants +X/+X equal to the highest power among creatures you control and trample. We never calculated the number, the table just scooped.
On a related note, but more on the issue of speed rather than an insanely high number, I would like to tell you about my Edgar Markov deck.
•Turn 1 tutor
•Turn 2 mana crypt into Door of Destinies.
•Turn 3 play a paur of 2cmc vamps and a single 1cmc vamp for 3 counters on the door and six 4/4's.
•Turn 4 I cast Edgar Markov, getting a counter on the door and making buffing them to 5/5, swing out and getting +1/+1 counters, making them six 6/6 or larger because some have 2 or 3 power like Asylum Visitor. Edgar Markov is a 4/4 with a counter making him a 5/5 with +4 from the door, making him a 9/9 all on his own. So, swing for 36 with and a 9/9 commander on turn 4 to knock somebody out of the game.
The deck can rebuild from a board wipe so easily and forces decks to play differently because of how explosive it can be.
Fervor and Hammar of Purphoros in my deck as ways to grant haste has led to me untapping after a board wipe and then vomiting my hand amd swingimg for 20+ and killing the person who cast the Wrath.
I know that is no on topic of most non-infinite damage, but the raw output has made that deck my only non-combo deck. Normally, beat down just doesn't get it done for me. Even the elf deck I mentioned had combos.
Ol' reliable here. The floor's so high it touches the ceiling!
A perfect description.
It came in the 2013 Bant pre-con with Roon of the Hidden Realm, which allowed for blink fun. It wasn't good enough to keep in that deck, and I eventually put it in my Ghoulcaller Gisa Commander 2014 build. It worked better in there, but is again under powered. The ability to ensure my 4th mana (could be 3rd land) is why i played it along sode Sad Robot and Liliana's Shade. The 1/1 body was easy to clamp for card draw or hold some other equipment to beat in with flying evasion.
Good enough on a budget to go in a deck, not good enough to stay.
I have pu it in my Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis deck as soon as I was able to get my hands on it. However, I have not used the deck much, and when I have, it hasn't come up.
I still think it can be fun and attainable, and my deck loves Azor's Elocutors as a win condition as well. The flavor of winning though a stall is fun in its own right.
It reminds me of when Wedge told his story of going for Divine Intervention and just forcing the game into a draw.
Player 1 who says that damage should be spread out really goes against the most basic ideas of combat math you learn in RPGs like D&D.
If a player is mana screwed, I do not mind ignoring them for a little while. Not only is it good sportsmanship, as opposed to stepping on their throat or kick them when they are down, but it is also bad threat assessment.
On the other hand, I have no problem ganging up on and taking out a threat. They should be prepared for that and otherwise not paint such a target on their back.
==========
I often agree with the control player, where I find it useful to interact with the table and play to survive the long game, stopping combos dead in their tracks, and being the cop at the table while players get knocked out one by one until I can hopefully out advantage my final opponent.
When I am not playing like that, then I am likely the Edgar Markov beaatdown deck or the all-in combo deck.
Look, I get that white is "the worst color" of the 5 in our format for the reasons mentioned, but I do not agree with the stats from the Cokmand Zone, their sample size, and other problems.
As they themselves admitted, one thing they did was evaluate white's expected winnrate against the field. So, when all 4 decks at the table have white in them, white has a 100% win expectancy, or when 3/4 of the deck have white, then it had a 75% chance to win, and in all honesty, those decks held up.
The implication that simply having white in your deck made your deck worse or reduced your chances of winning was silly.
Additionally, the samples they pulled from had a lot of very casual play. That is well and good in a casual fprmat. The problem is that when you try make decisions and take actions to help improve COMPETITIVE BALANCE based on casual data. I do not know about the rest of you, but I cannot count how many times I have seen a deck with white (often a commander I myself run and why I clicked the video) and watch the pilot make highly questionable decisions which eventually cost them the game, and thus hurt white's numbers.
You see, layer on in the episode, they touch on other important points. White makes for a powerful support color. Taking a look at EDHREC's top multi colored cards, it starts with signets (many of which have white) and then putrify. After that, we see a lot of cards with white in the cost:
Anguished unmaking
Merciless Eviction
Supreme Verdict
Mirrari's Wake
Utter End
Boros Charm
Mortify
Aura Shards
Crackling Doom
The list foes on and on. Look for yourself. For each non white card which shows up, there are 2 or 3 cards with white after it.
After all of my rant, my main point is that people are overstating how "bad" white is. At least, that is my opinion, and until a more scientific study with a larger sample size and from more serious players and decks is done.
I wouldn't play mono white, but the only two mono colors I wpuod play are blue and black anyway. Black rewards you for staying mono colored, and mono blue combo is a proven staple... as the best way to beat blue is to be even bluer than the rest of the table. If another blue deck beat you, then you were not blue enough. "Blue harder." White green and red alone are very unappealing and weak against the field.
I would say the Menace/fear is still better than what the gate does.
In your example of six blockers, that means that they can only block 3 of my creatures, as opposed to six. That is a big deal. We are just trying to get damage in, and leaving up six blockers to stop some combination of tokens and one drops is hardly worth it.
I do nitthink it would be bad in a deck under construction, though I doubt it would ve an upgrade from what has been put together.
I cannot remember when I ever really cared about the damage prevention part of Ironas. When I play, I have found that the Menace caused people to scoop, as it completely changed the math of combat.
Yeah. I put the deck up on Tapped out so that it can be registers on EDHREC, so I can always have my list on my profile, so that I can do digital goldfishing when I am not at home, and so that I would never have to type the whole thing out here.
As far as the contents go:
Yes, the creatures are based on what I have available, not a specofic preference for any of them over your list. I can understand why it is difficult to find the older commons like Pulse Tracker, but the Ixalan common and uncommon creatures continue to elude me. I was thinking of buying the Explorers of Ixalan box just to get things like Shared Animosity and Time Warp, a some vampires and maybe make use of the silly mini game that came inside.
=========
Some things that I have discovered through playing the deck for the last year:
1) The Hideaway lands get better the worse the deck is and worse the better the deck is. That is to say, when you can consistantly hideaway a card which costs 4+, you can get solid value out of these lands, as dealing 7 damage or attacking with several creatures is an easy thing to do. However, coming into play tapped and setting you back two mana to activate is very slow, and when the odds are that your top 4 cards will only give you something which costs one or two mana, you are also not really cheating a mana cost either. Great on a budget, bad when building it to be competitive.
2) I still do not know how I feel about cutting so many answers from the deck. We are not control, but I often find it important to blow up a pesky artifact or enchantment can go a long way to winning the game. I really think I will reevaluate some of my spells and make room for Disenchant/Return to Dust or whatnot.
=======
Until I can get a minions' murmers, I was thinking about Promise of Power. Not as effecient, but 5 cards for 5 mana is not terrible.
When I am building up a deck on a budget, I do not mind having about 4 or 5 lands come into play tapped and would rather play the Scry Temples and Tri-lands.
If you don't mind "charging up" a land, then I suggest using the storrage lands from Time Spiral. Those are good in control decks. I cannot tell you how often I have used the blue black one to store up to 5+ counters and cast Teferi or Draining Whelk off of it. It feels good to essentially play those cards for a single colorless.
Still, as was said, the game has changed and it is more important now that ever to use your mana as effeciently as possible. When creatures were worse over 10 years ago, draw-go control could sit back and cast instant speed card draw if it had nothing to counter, activate Top or Scroll Rack, put charge counters on things, and use Urza's Factory or Skeletal Vampure to churn out tokens and take over the game turn by turn. Now all of this "tap out control" stuff has really changed the narrative (and I am nit complaining), where you had better be doing something impactful with your mana or you will lose.
Man, this thread already makes me painfully aware of how my definition of fun diverges from the "norm".
(snip)
I also dig some of the high-skill cards like fact or fiction and intuition. Really wish gifts was unbanned (or at least I think I do).
I agree with that opening statement so much.
Regarding Intuition and Gifts, I have mixed feelings.
Commander is not a balanced format, so I would agree that it doesn't make sense to have one banned and not the other. I certainly miss using my Gifts, as it has been one of my favorite cards since it was printed. I do not know why it took other people so long to understand that it was essentially a demonic tutor for four cards for four mana. Even 2004 was a world with Yawg-will and other graveyard recursion.
Intuition and Gifts are both cards which should win you the game upon resolution. In my Mizzix deck, I often just get Mystic Retrival, Runic Repitition and Time Warp. No matter what you give me, I will loop infinite turns and win. There are other combinations with Recoup, Past in Flames, Yawg-will and so forth.
When Gifts was still legal, I had games where I would go turn 1 sol ring and turn 2 "end of turn Gifts" into graveyard reanimate combos an just win on my third turn, because it simply doesn't matter what you give me. If I can protect my graveyard from exile, it is game over, and the same is true for Inuition.
A couple other example piles are: 1)Cabal Therapy + Uburial Rites + Academy Rector. No matter what you are given, you will be able to reanimate and sacrifice the Rector for Omnicience, which you should be able to win off of.
2) Snapcaster + Yawgmoth's Will + Doomsday, then pilot a Doomsday pile.
That is why I do not think it is THAT skill intensive.
A total scrub doesn't know what to do or when to cast it, so it does take a modicum of skill, but any research into it and should be fine.
Honestly, that kind of stuff is what I love most about this game.
I have finally put my deck up on Tappedout. I rarely use that site and this is only my second deck I have on my profile. They take a long time to do, but I felt this one was worth uploading.
Any advice on what I should prioritize for a buy list or keep an eye out for would be appreciated. I know that more lower cost vampires, but as I said, I live in Peru and often times the commons from older sets are far more difficult to get than rare, because people don't carry bulk commons in their binders, and stores turn over cards quickly.
You are limited to drawing ome card each turn, playing one land each turn, and attacking once each turn all at once.
There are cards within the game which bend or even outright break these rules... but they are still essential to the core game.
Magic is a game and Commander is a format where Demonic Tutor at 1B is super strong, but Diabolic Tutor at 2BB is unplayably slow. Resource development and management are the core of MtG.
Stax is a part of that. Live with it.
On a related note, but more on the issue of speed rather than an insanely high number, I would like to tell you about my Edgar Markov deck.
•Turn 1 tutor
•Turn 2 mana crypt into Door of Destinies.
•Turn 3 play a paur of 2cmc vamps and a single 1cmc vamp for 3 counters on the door and six 4/4's.
•Turn 4 I cast Edgar Markov, getting a counter on the door and making buffing them to 5/5, swing out and getting +1/+1 counters, making them six 6/6 or larger because some have 2 or 3 power like Asylum Visitor. Edgar Markov is a 4/4 with a counter making him a 5/5 with +4 from the door, making him a 9/9 all on his own. So, swing for 36 with and a 9/9 commander on turn 4 to knock somebody out of the game.
The deck can rebuild from a board wipe so easily and forces decks to play differently because of how explosive it can be.
Fervor and Hammar of Purphoros in my deck as ways to grant haste has led to me untapping after a board wipe and then vomiting my hand amd swingimg for 20+ and killing the person who cast the Wrath.
I know that is no on topic of most non-infinite damage, but the raw output has made that deck my only non-combo deck. Normally, beat down just doesn't get it done for me. Even the elf deck I mentioned had combos.
A perfect description.
It came in the 2013 Bant pre-con with Roon of the Hidden Realm, which allowed for blink fun. It wasn't good enough to keep in that deck, and I eventually put it in my Ghoulcaller Gisa Commander 2014 build. It worked better in there, but is again under powered. The ability to ensure my 4th mana (could be 3rd land) is why i played it along sode Sad Robot and Liliana's Shade. The 1/1 body was easy to clamp for card draw or hold some other equipment to beat in with flying evasion.
Good enough on a budget to go in a deck, not good enough to stay.
It came in the Mizzix deck, which could often be cast for only UR and potentially adding an experience counter in the process.
I still think it can be fun and attainable, and my deck loves Azor's Elocutors as a win condition as well. The flavor of winning though a stall is fun in its own right.
It reminds me of when Wedge told his story of going for Divine Intervention and just forcing the game into a draw.
If a player is mana screwed, I do not mind ignoring them for a little while. Not only is it good sportsmanship, as opposed to stepping on their throat or kick them when they are down, but it is also bad threat assessment.
On the other hand, I have no problem ganging up on and taking out a threat. They should be prepared for that and otherwise not paint such a target on their back.
==========
I often agree with the control player, where I find it useful to interact with the table and play to survive the long game, stopping combos dead in their tracks, and being the cop at the table while players get knocked out one by one until I can hopefully out advantage my final opponent.
When I am not playing like that, then I am likely the Edgar Markov beaatdown deck or the all-in combo deck.
Look, I get that white is "the worst color" of the 5 in our format for the reasons mentioned, but I do not agree with the stats from the Cokmand Zone, their sample size, and other problems.
As they themselves admitted, one thing they did was evaluate white's expected winnrate against the field. So, when all 4 decks at the table have white in them, white has a 100% win expectancy, or when 3/4 of the deck have white, then it had a 75% chance to win, and in all honesty, those decks held up.
The implication that simply having white in your deck made your deck worse or reduced your chances of winning was silly.
Additionally, the samples they pulled from had a lot of very casual play. That is well and good in a casual fprmat. The problem is that when you try make decisions and take actions to help improve COMPETITIVE BALANCE based on casual data. I do not know about the rest of you, but I cannot count how many times I have seen a deck with white (often a commander I myself run and why I clicked the video) and watch the pilot make highly questionable decisions which eventually cost them the game, and thus hurt white's numbers.
You see, layer on in the episode, they touch on other important points. White makes for a powerful support color. Taking a look at EDHREC's top multi colored cards, it starts with signets (many of which have white) and then putrify. After that, we see a lot of cards with white in the cost:
Anguished unmaking
Merciless Eviction
Supreme Verdict
Mirrari's Wake
Utter End
Boros Charm
Mortify
Aura Shards
Crackling Doom
The list foes on and on. Look for yourself. For each non white card which shows up, there are 2 or 3 cards with white after it.
After all of my rant, my main point is that people are overstating how "bad" white is. At least, that is my opinion, and until a more scientific study with a larger sample size and from more serious players and decks is done.
I wouldn't play mono white, but the only two mono colors I wpuod play are blue and black anyway. Black rewards you for staying mono colored, and mono blue combo is a proven staple... as the best way to beat blue is to be even bluer than the rest of the table. If another blue deck beat you, then you were not blue enough. "Blue harder." White green and red alone are very unappealing and weak against the field.
In your example of six blockers, that means that they can only block 3 of my creatures, as opposed to six. That is a big deal. We are just trying to get damage in, and leaving up six blockers to stop some combination of tokens and one drops is hardly worth it.
I do nitthink it would be bad in a deck under construction, though I doubt it would ve an upgrade from what has been put together.
I cannot remember when I ever really cared about the damage prevention part of Ironas. When I play, I have found that the Menace caused people to scoop, as it completely changed the math of combat.
As far as the contents go:
Yes, the creatures are based on what I have available, not a specofic preference for any of them over your list. I can understand why it is difficult to find the older commons like Pulse Tracker, but the Ixalan common and uncommon creatures continue to elude me. I was thinking of buying the Explorers of Ixalan box just to get things like Shared Animosity and Time Warp, a some vampires and maybe make use of the silly mini game that came inside.
=========
Some things that I have discovered through playing the deck for the last year:
1) The Hideaway lands get better the worse the deck is and worse the better the deck is. That is to say, when you can consistantly hideaway a card which costs 4+, you can get solid value out of these lands, as dealing 7 damage or attacking with several creatures is an easy thing to do. However, coming into play tapped and setting you back two mana to activate is very slow, and when the odds are that your top 4 cards will only give you something which costs one or two mana, you are also not really cheating a mana cost either. Great on a budget, bad when building it to be competitive.
2) I still do not know how I feel about cutting so many answers from the deck. We are not control, but I often find it important to blow up a pesky artifact or enchantment can go a long way to winning the game. I really think I will reevaluate some of my spells and make room for Disenchant/Return to Dust or whatnot.
=======
Until I can get a minions' murmers, I was thinking about Promise of Power. Not as effecient, but 5 cards for 5 mana is not terrible.
When I am building up a deck on a budget, I do not mind having about 4 or 5 lands come into play tapped and would rather play the Scry Temples and Tri-lands.
If you don't mind "charging up" a land, then I suggest using the storrage lands from Time Spiral. Those are good in control decks. I cannot tell you how often I have used the blue black one to store up to 5+ counters and cast Teferi or Draining Whelk off of it. It feels good to essentially play those cards for a single colorless.
Still, as was said, the game has changed and it is more important now that ever to use your mana as effeciently as possible. When creatures were worse over 10 years ago, draw-go control could sit back and cast instant speed card draw if it had nothing to counter, activate Top or Scroll Rack, put charge counters on things, and use Urza's Factory or Skeletal Vampure to churn out tokens and take over the game turn by turn. Now all of this "tap out control" stuff has really changed the narrative (and I am nit complaining), where you had better be doing something impactful with your mana or you will lose.
I agree with that opening statement so much.
Regarding Intuition and Gifts, I have mixed feelings.
Commander is not a balanced format, so I would agree that it doesn't make sense to have one banned and not the other. I certainly miss using my Gifts, as it has been one of my favorite cards since it was printed. I do not know why it took other people so long to understand that it was essentially a demonic tutor for four cards for four mana. Even 2004 was a world with Yawg-will and other graveyard recursion.
Intuition and Gifts are both cards which should win you the game upon resolution. In my Mizzix deck, I often just get Mystic Retrival, Runic Repitition and Time Warp. No matter what you give me, I will loop infinite turns and win. There are other combinations with Recoup, Past in Flames, Yawg-will and so forth.
When Gifts was still legal, I had games where I would go turn 1 sol ring and turn 2 "end of turn Gifts" into graveyard reanimate combos an just win on my third turn, because it simply doesn't matter what you give me. If I can protect my graveyard from exile, it is game over, and the same is true for Inuition.
A couple other example piles are: 1)Cabal Therapy + Uburial Rites + Academy Rector. No matter what you are given, you will be able to reanimate and sacrifice the Rector for Omnicience, which you should be able to win off of.
2) Snapcaster + Yawgmoth's Will + Doomsday, then pilot a Doomsday pile.
That is why I do not think it is THAT skill intensive.
A total scrub doesn't know what to do or when to cast it, so it does take a modicum of skill, but any research into it and should be fine.
Honestly, that kind of stuff is what I love most about this game.
I have finally put my deck up on Tappedout. I rarely use that site and this is only my second deck I have on my profile. They take a long time to do, but I felt this one was worth uploading.
Here is my most current list based on what I own:
Edgar Markov Vampire Swarm
Any advice on what I should prioritize for a buy list or keep an eye out for would be appreciated. I know that more lower cost vampires, but as I said, I live in Peru and often times the commons from older sets are far more difficult to get than rare, because people don't carry bulk commons in their binders, and stores turn over cards quickly.
Guile + Dovescape is a soft lock, as reclimation sage type creatures break it.