This is an interesting vote. Spoon you do not know me well enough to say whether or not I always act like that or not.
k.
If you did know me you would know that I clear do not act that way always.
Maybe not always, but I've seen you act cryptic and dodgey enough times before that I don't see it as much of a tell from you.
This strikes me as implying that you have some credibility that you really do not have. The statement that the things I said about Hvir and DYH don’t sit well with you also come a crossed as opportunistic to me. How would you have any idea whether I was right or wrong regarding DYH?
Because the idea that DYH was being controlled by someone else seems ludicrous. I guess it is possible that DYH was under duress, but going after him based almost entirely on that is crazy.
I came up with a theory that avatar changing and the possibility that a player could be controlled by another player based on information I had, what I read about fade’s recruitment experience, answers I got to questions I asked Azrael and looking at the changes in game play by DYH and his changing his avatar.
Ok. I guess my problem is just that I think you interpreted these things badly. It's certainly possible that you just misinterpreted some PMs from Azrael, though.
Quote from HAWKEYE7 »
Remember this post?
Quote from DYH »
My voice is no longer my own- my vote should not be counted. Anyone can change their avatar, Hawkeye.
I assumed at the time (and still believe) that this was just a way to role-play saying that he had to proxy his vote again once he'd changed back to his original avatar.
Quote from HAWKEYE7 »
I posted a case against DYH based on that theory and tried to get information to confirm or dismiss that case/theory. If you disagree with me why did you not post anything regarding this up to this point? Why did you not question me about any portion of my posts directed at DYH?
While you were asking questions, I thought it best to let you have your answers before going further. I like to let people be the judge of their own information.
Shortly after you got your answers (or at least some of them), DYH was killed. It was at that point that I decided that the way you were acting based on the information you had was dumb.
Quote from HAWKEYE »
So, after posting for so long that Loran was the default lynch for the day, agreeing with RafK and drifting from one target to another you have decided that me being cryptic and dodgy, which you claim is how I always act and that some of the things I have said about Hvir and DYH form the basis of a legitimate vote of me by you?
I was agreeing with CP (not RafK) and commented on why I agreed with the subjects that he'd brought up in his previous post. I didn't intend to jump from target to target. I then voted you because I thought your case on DYH was absurdly founded and lacking sense, and therefore could easily have something else behind it.
Anyway, I got the main answer I was looking for by voting you, which was what you were thinking when you voted DYH.
Quote from HAWKEYE7 »
Apparently, I was wrong in the assumptions I had made based on my role and the answers I got to certain questions I made to Azrael. I believed that only under very specific circumstance would players be allowed to change their avatars and after Kraj was gone that the fact that DYH started sporting the Agent Smith Avatar and began at that point role playing was an indication that the Agent Smith Cult did not die with Kraj but continued on with DYH and likely he was being controlled by another player.
That quote makes me think it's more likely that you just messed up and anything more sinister was going on. I still don't think there was enough information there to make that leap, but then again I don't have your role or the PMs from Azrael.
So unvote, vote atlseal. That vote is stay there until I get an explanation for his disappearing act. A JOAT with a botched drawback and a kill dodging ability is just too much for me.
Well... I deleted them. I remember after Alx2 started going after AG I wrote one post criticizing you, but other than that I don't remember. What does matter is that my gut hasn't liked your play but I trust your claim.
Quote from Fadeblue »
2. Spoon
Still quite an unknown. Appears to be a gimmick of a regular player, but I'm not sure who. I don't even know if I can cross off players who are already in the game as possibilities. Apparently needs to vote in blue. I've seen some townish posts, but I'm tempted to pursue this line just to figure out what's up.
I believe that I remain an unknown is in the town's best interest.
Quote from Fadeblue »
19. Atlseal
Claimed Cheshire Cat, with a lynch drawback and JOAT abilities (which are all questionable flavorwise). Has used an inspection to catch Kraj. Seems to have a vanishing ability triggered presumably by a daykill attempt. No evidence yet has indicated that he is town.
I just realized that the disappearance of Atlseal fits perfectly with his Cheshire Cat claim, which means that now he's a JOAT with a crappy lynch drawback and a kill dodging ability. Does anyone else see this as rather unlikely?
I actually agree with a lot of what CP's saying. Loran probably is the default lynch of the day if nothing better shows up.
ZDS has been acting scummy for a while now. I keep writing up posts pointing out something he's done only to delete them when I remember he's a mason...
...but one with abilities different from his partner.
Between Fade and CP there's more than enough information to figure out how CP's multi-vote works.
Hawkeye's acting dodgey and cryptic, and I'd vote him on principal if he didn't always act like that. Some of the things he said to Hvir and DYH don't sit well with me, though. Insisting that Hvir should have picked up on the location hints that HE7 dropped doesn't seem correct. And where he got the idea that DYH was being controlled is beyond me. Blood Moon mafia, maybe?
Aw, what the heck. I'm willing to see where this goes. Vote HAWKEYE7.
Actually, now that I think about it, why did we stop going after atlseal? He's not confirmed; all he's proved is the ability to role-cop someone. And isn't that normally a mafia role? He easily could have gotten the info he did as scum. The only thing that saved him yesterday was his claim, and he hasn't proved it. And hell, part of his claim was bad - that smilie ability is terribly designed. I can't believe Az would put that into the game just as atl's claimed it.
He claimed a role-block, right? Could we have him use that on someone tonight so they can confirm him in the morning?
Meanwhile, J-Effe. He hasn't done anything horribly scummy, but a lot of his posts don't make much sense / have bad logic. Here's the most interesting of them:
957
Quote from J-Effe »
Unvote.
Ljustus would be the correct and safe play for today ; Cyan is a riskier but better play. I am willing to take this risk and see what atlseal is up to do. I still don't believe his claim.
FoS atlseal, Vote Cyan.
In response I said:
Quote from Spoon »
So... you're not voting for the "correct and safe" play, nor are you voting for the guy who's claim you don't believe? Instead you'd like to take the risky play?
1103:
Quote from J-Effe »
Yes, all discussion benefits the town. But mafia will use this to their advantage by fooling us and leading us on the wrong track. The more we talk, the more they're likely to talk. A scum always end doing the smallest mistake that will reveal him as mafia. However, through 1000+ posts, it is more unlikely that we'll spot those mistakes. Just wanted to point this out.
I then say:
Quote from Spoon »
This is more or less wrong. More things said by scum = more chances for them to screw up. If they mislead us more and more, then we'll be able to see that as they post more and more.
Discussion = good. Period.
1348
Quote from J-Effe »
On a completely different subject, Grakthis and RafK are so much in front of town that they must be townies or mafia, I think.
Ahem. But he goes on.
Quote from J-Effe »
I can't really see them with a power role. I'm not saying they must be in the same clan, nothing like this. But they deserve some attention later, if not right now.
Right. Axel points out how ridiculous this is in 1385.
A lot of it is like that. As far as scummy actions, he goes along with the town a lot (on Cyan and LJ, for instance). He fishes on Xyre a little in 1711 as Fade linked above. He metagames against Xyre in 1734. It's not as bad as I remember, but there's definitely a case there. His posts are just weird a lot.
Hmm. Day 2 Vamp got bit by the proverbial role-playing bug. Now DYH seems to have fallen to the same illness. Might we have a role that forces role-playing?
Rafk might have some form of untargetability, as was evidenced when he responded to Alx’s question on his target on Day 2 by asking whether the target was him. If it is true, he might be a scum since I can’t really see why a townie needs to be untargetable. There’s also some unease on my part on his play so far.
Star Trek had an untargetable townie. Untargetable means he's not NKable. This ability is good for everyone: townie, mafia, and neutral alike.
Wow.....fence sitting much? Loran's defense was fine, but i still think he's the correct play. Oh and lets throw a little suspicion elsewhere perhaps!
Normally i'd look at your other posts after something like this, but you and wizz havent exactly posted much, hmmmm?
J-Effe's had terrible posts like this the whole game. I kept pointing them out right when he replaced in, but no one seemed to notice. Then I'd get distracted with more pressing issues and move on because it's easy to write off his terrible play as terrible play rather than scummy play.
Later on when we don't have a dozen other things to talk about, pressing JE will be a good thing.
Moving on, I support RafK's question. I also don't think loran's played a particularly great game thus far, but I don't think he's anywhere near the scummiest player so far (that would be J-Effe). The fact that the case on him is horribly biased and its author is acting scummy doesn't help, even if he is a near-confirmed mason. Seriously, ZDS, you undertake a crusade on loran that's been building since day 1. Then Alx2 makes one arguably questionable and you turn straight over to him? What happened to your certainty that loran is scum?
Contrary to my last post and upon further review, Alx2's vote doesn't look that bad. He's got a point about most of AG's posts, and ZDS's thought that he was ignoring the matters at hand isn't that valid since the matters at hand were largely settling down. Only Charm's info-vomit hadn't been heavily addressed when Alx put down his vote.
Incidentally....i happen to think rafk's idea of a replacing-in scum is certainly possible.
Think about it.....replacements are targetable. The list seemed to have been reordered (as noted by vamp) at one point. and a player who was replaced (or put in limbo to be fair) was replaced again?
It's interesting....it almost means taht we have to look at each player with suth's role as a new player entirely, which makes it harder to analyze properly.
I don't know about the rest of you, but this just reeks of inside information to me.
k.
Maybe not always, but I've seen you act cryptic and dodgey enough times before that I don't see it as much of a tell from you.
Because the idea that DYH was being controlled by someone else seems ludicrous. I guess it is possible that DYH was under duress, but going after him based almost entirely on that is crazy.
Ok. I guess my problem is just that I think you interpreted these things badly. It's certainly possible that you just misinterpreted some PMs from Azrael, though.
I assumed at the time (and still believe) that this was just a way to role-play saying that he had to proxy his vote again once he'd changed back to his original avatar.
While you were asking questions, I thought it best to let you have your answers before going further. I like to let people be the judge of their own information.
Shortly after you got your answers (or at least some of them), DYH was killed. It was at that point that I decided that the way you were acting based on the information you had was dumb.
I was agreeing with CP (not RafK) and commented on why I agreed with the subjects that he'd brought up in his previous post. I didn't intend to jump from target to target. I then voted you because I thought your case on DYH was absurdly founded and lacking sense, and therefore could easily have something else behind it.
Anyway, I got the main answer I was looking for by voting you, which was what you were thinking when you voted DYH.
That quote makes me think it's more likely that you just messed up and anything more sinister was going on. I still don't think there was enough information there to make that leap, but then again I don't have your role or the PMs from Azrael.
So unvote, vote atlseal. That vote is stay there until I get an explanation for his disappearing act. A JOAT with a botched drawback and a kill dodging ability is just too much for me.
Well... I deleted them. I remember after Alx2 started going after AG I wrote one post criticizing you, but other than that I don't remember. What does matter is that my gut hasn't liked your play but I trust your claim.
I believe that I remain an unknown is in the town's best interest.
I just realized that the disappearance of Atlseal fits perfectly with his Cheshire Cat claim, which means that now he's a JOAT with a crappy lynch drawback and a kill dodging ability. Does anyone else see this as rather unlikely?
ZDS has been acting scummy for a while now. I keep writing up posts pointing out something he's done only to delete them when I remember he's a mason...
...but one with abilities different from his partner.
Between Fade and CP there's more than enough information to figure out how CP's multi-vote works.
Hawkeye's acting dodgey and cryptic, and I'd vote him on principal if he didn't always act like that. Some of the things he said to Hvir and DYH don't sit well with me, though. Insisting that Hvir should have picked up on the location hints that HE7 dropped doesn't seem correct. And where he got the idea that DYH was being controlled is beyond me. Blood Moon mafia, maybe?
Aw, what the heck. I'm willing to see where this goes. Vote HAWKEYE7.
He claimed a role-block, right? Could we have him use that on someone tonight so they can confirm him in the morning?
Meanwhile, J-Effe. He hasn't done anything horribly scummy, but a lot of his posts don't make much sense / have bad logic. Here's the most interesting of them:
957
In response I said:
1103:
I then say:
1348
Ahem. But he goes on.
Right. Axel points out how ridiculous this is in 1385.
A lot of it is like that. As far as scummy actions, he goes along with the town a lot (on Cyan and LJ, for instance). He fishes on Xyre a little in 1711 as Fade linked above. He metagames against Xyre in 1734. It's not as bad as I remember, but there's definitely a case there. His posts are just weird a lot.
I'm working on a J-Effe case.
J-Effe's had terrible posts like this the whole game. I kept pointing them out right when he replaced in, but no one seemed to notice. Then I'd get distracted with more pressing issues and move on because it's easy to write off his terrible play as terrible play rather than scummy play.
Later on when we don't have a dozen other things to talk about, pressing JE will be a good thing.
Moving on, I support RafK's question. I also don't think loran's played a particularly great game thus far, but I don't think he's anywhere near the scummiest player so far (that would be J-Effe). The fact that the case on him is horribly biased and its author is acting scummy doesn't help, even if he is a near-confirmed mason. Seriously, ZDS, you undertake a crusade on loran that's been building since day 1. Then Alx2 makes one arguably questionable and you turn straight over to him? What happened to your certainty that loran is scum?
Anyhoo. Spoon out.
Contrary to my last post and upon further review, Alx2's vote doesn't look that bad. He's got a point about most of AG's posts, and ZDS's thought that he was ignoring the matters at hand isn't that valid since the matters at hand were largely settling down. Only Charm's info-vomit hadn't been heavily addressed when Alx put down his vote.
I don't know about the rest of you, but this just reeks of inside information to me.
Vote carrion pigeons
My first instinct on Xyre is that he's backtracking now. More later.
DYH is probably using that avatar so that he can vote, by the way.
atlseal, what happened to you yesterday? If you'd prefer not to answer, ok. But since I assume you didn't cause it yourself, I'm a little curious.