Nor does it on me and Vampyr. However, based on the wording of the drawback, it existing among several players is obviousness incarnated. The lynch drawback is part of a subtheme in this game, I believe ; which can explain why it is not always obvious why someone should have it (you can only find so many suitable flavor justifications for it — if you even bother to find at least one).
In short, my inside knowledge of the question leads me to believe atlseal is saying the truth here. Plus, remember the timing of his reaction to my "pre-claim".
Oh, I'm fine with the -2 to lynch thing mechanically. What I'm not fine with is the part of this drawback that involves the smilie. It's inelegant and unnecessary. I just don't think Az would design a role like that.
You want to lynch him because his claim is too good.
The fact that he hid his survival ability bothers me too but the move is justifiable.
Apart from that, what's the problem exactly ? As a mafia investigator, he probably wouldn't have claimed RBer in the Joat, as the role-block would be hard to fake without the mafia giving up a role-block one night and risking the flavour of the RB outing him. Same thing for the vig.
And I doubt he planned to get daykilled and survive to avoid having to take these two actions.
I haven't liked atlseal since day 1, and the gut feeling remains. Plus, the -2 to lynch drawback just doesn't make any sense.
I don't like it. But I suppose you do have a point in there. And so does Xyre. Unvote.
No, atlseal being targetted by the SK makes him likely not the SK. His information role aspect reinforces that too.
Loran16 calling for LJ's inspection to be used on atlseal meant that atlseal wouldn't be able to fake any investigation report.
When atlseal revealed his result, Loran16 wanted him lynched before Kraj.
Both of these points make atlseal very unlikely to be a scum-partner to Loran16.
Clearer ?
Yeah, that makes sense.
Vote atlseal. I don't think Grak's been acting any different recently than he has all game, and I don't see Puzzle's case as very strong. Atlseal's claim now makes sense (except for the original drawback thing being stupid), but it's too convenient. I don't like it.
I agree that the way he put it makes sense, I just don't think that the role itself makes sense, especially combined with the 'I have to use the grin smiley or I get modkilled' bit. Especially since he A)didn't use the grin smiley before disappearing and B)didn't get modkilled.
Also, I disagree that telling everyone about the kill dodge makes the role useless. If he is being truthful about his role, I would say that telling everyone about that aspect of his role makes him less of a target, not more of one. From a scum perspective, trading one of your kills to make someone lose a 1 shot RB and 1 shot Vig doesn't seem like a good deal, IMO.
I agree completely with your first paragraph. This is what I meant when I said I didn't like his claim. I guess your second paragraph makes sense, too. I wasn't thinking about the fact that he'd become vanilla. Still, it might be more valuable to make the mafia waste a kill accidentally then to have a single shot of vig, rb, and doc.
Whatever. The point is that atlseal's claim is weird and very much questionable.
That doesn't even make any sense, and the fact that you 'dodged' your first kill(which involved disappearing for the rest of the day, in a completely cheshire cat like fashion) before you posted your grin smiley thing, but didn't suffer any of the penalties that you stated you would..also doesn't make sense. Something really seems off about all of this.
Unvote though, because the more Grakthis responds to Puzzle, the worse off he sounds. As well as the whole 'I can only use my ability when certain things happen' sounding like complete and utter BS. Vote grakthis
Atlseal's last post does make sense: he's saying that telling everyone about the kill dodge effectively makes it useless. Atlseal's claim also make sense if you take into account that he became vanilla after disappearing. If his role was JOAT + a kill dodge that makes him vanilla, then things all seem to fit together.
But just because what he's saying more or less fits doesn't make it true. I still don't like atlseal or his claim.
I'd noticed Cyan's point on Grak, too. His claim is hilariously vague (hey guys, I have a really good and cool ability that I'll eventually use when some things happen). I want to reread him vs Puzzle before I vote, thoguh.
Puzzle's attack is reaching almost as much as HE7 was with DYH yesterday. Puzzle, if you can come up with a solid point other than Grak's use of the words 'the kid', I'll take you seriously.
How does that first sentence sound to you? What would you think if a player you had very little experience with made a statement worded like that about you?
Exactly what you thought. I was acting with knowledge you don't have and didn't take that into account. My bad.
Quote from HAWKEYE7 »
Like I said, I think his words are implying a degree of familiarity and knowledge that he does not possess and is trying to add credibility to a post and a vote that is lacking substance.
I can see how you'd think that in retrospect. See above.
So, you don’t think the phrase “my voice is not my own” does not mean that he was not in control, or complete control of the words he was posting?
Ok.
What are your thoughts on the possibility that DYH was, while posting under a different avatar and phrasing his words as though he were roleplaying, that he was actually under the control of another player? That that player could tell him, if not actually write out, what he was posting?
If there wasn't a completely legitimate reason for him to have used the phrase "my voice is not my own" I might be more sympathetic to your theory. I just think it was a colorful way of saying that at that point he couldn't control his own vote; what is your voice in this game if not your vote?
I can see where the controlled-DYH theory comes from, I just think it's too far-fetched. The evidence is by no means conclusive, and what you're pointing to as evidence can be explained in other ways.
So: I see where you're coming from, I just think you're trying too hard.
Quote from HAWKEYE7 »
He had the Agent Smith avatar at the time he posted this.
I remember interpreting the "my voice is not my own" line as I explained it above, and part of that comes from remembering him as having his normal avatar when he posted that.
Also, @Pod: Thanks for answering for me. Really, very nice of you.
Oh, I'm fine with the -2 to lynch thing mechanically. What I'm not fine with is the part of this drawback that involves the smilie. It's inelegant and unnecessary. I just don't think Az would design a role like that.
I haven't liked atlseal since day 1, and the gut feeling remains. Plus, the -2 to lynch drawback just doesn't make any sense.
I don't like it. But I suppose you do have a point in there. And so does Xyre. Unvote.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Vote atlseal. I don't think Grak's been acting any different recently than he has all game, and I don't see Puzzle's case as very strong. Atlseal's claim now makes sense (except for the original drawback thing being stupid), but it's too convenient. I don't like it.
I agree completely with your first paragraph. This is what I meant when I said I didn't like his claim. I guess your second paragraph makes sense, too. I wasn't thinking about the fact that he'd become vanilla. Still, it might be more valuable to make the mafia waste a kill accidentally then to have a single shot of vig, rb, and doc.
Whatever. The point is that atlseal's claim is weird and very much questionable.
Atlseal's last post does make sense: he's saying that telling everyone about the kill dodge effectively makes it useless. Atlseal's claim also make sense if you take into account that he became vanilla after disappearing. If his role was JOAT + a kill dodge that makes him vanilla, then things all seem to fit together.
But just because what he's saying more or less fits doesn't make it true. I still don't like atlseal or his claim.
I'd noticed Cyan's point on Grak, too. His claim is hilariously vague (hey guys, I have a really good and cool ability that I'll eventually use when some things happen). I want to reread him vs Puzzle before I vote, thoguh.
^^^
Exactly what you thought. I was acting with knowledge you don't have and didn't take that into account. My bad.
I can see how you'd think that in retrospect. See above.
If there wasn't a completely legitimate reason for him to have used the phrase "my voice is not my own" I might be more sympathetic to your theory. I just think it was a colorful way of saying that at that point he couldn't control his own vote; what is your voice in this game if not your vote?
I can see where the controlled-DYH theory comes from, I just think it's too far-fetched. The evidence is by no means conclusive, and what you're pointing to as evidence can be explained in other ways.
So: I see where you're coming from, I just think you're trying too hard.
I remember interpreting the "my voice is not my own" line as I explained it above, and part of that comes from remembering him as having his normal avatar when he posted that.
Also, @Pod: Thanks for answering for me. Really, very nice of you.