Heh. That weird-looking sideboard is just me indulging an OCD-ish habit, and shouldn't be taken as gospel. I happen to like using lots of one-ofs that can be combined in different ways to combat whatever your opponent is trying to do. I think for the most part it's self-explanatory what kind of matchups most of the cards are meant for, but I could get into specific sideboard strategies if you want to toss some matchups at me.
Here's a more conventional sideboard, if you prefer:
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Hydroblast
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
2 Submerge
I've made some long overdue updates to the primer. I think this deck can be relevant again. See my recommended build in the OP. Highlights: Daze is out, Syphon Sliver is in. I've been doing some testing, and I can tell you my list has positive matchups against Delver and Miracles, and it's 50/50 against Burn.
To make Countersliver somewhat competitive in Legacy again, Wizards would have to print a 1-mana counterpart to Plated Sliver:
Brawn Sliver
Slivers get +1/+0
1/1
Actually, it would be ideal if it were :symw:, which would make UW Countersliver a very attractive option. But it's much more likely to be if it ever gets printed. And it might.
Please, nobody needs bother mentioning the flanking sliver. I'm aware. It isn't very good.
Curious as to why you don't run mutavault? You are a little light on the sliver, you get a nice 2/2. Just don't feel like updating the deck?
Mutavault is fine, but I'm running Wasteland instead. Can only run so many colorless lands in the deck. Wasteland makes Daze and Spell Pierce better.
The unfortunate truth, though, is that the slivers are the worst part of the deck. Wizards has printed so many undercosted fatties in past couple of years that slivers have been pushed into obsolescence.
It's pretty much impossible to justify playing any creature that costs more than 3 mana in legacy, unless you're cheating it into play. Consider the fact that even formerly well-regarded 4cc creatures such as Mystic Enforcer and Fledgling Dragon no longer see any play. At all.
I barely play Countersliver any more, but here's my current list for anyone interested:
Let's be real. The only decks that might disenchant your O-Rings are Zoo and the occasional Tempo Bant, because of the maindeck Pridemages. And if baiting them into disenchanting an O-Ring lets you get a Jitte or Sword on-line, great!
Btw, Zoo becomes a fairly easy match once you take out the Hounds/Mangaras and put in Moms/Kitchen Finks. Just sayin.
2a. Isamaru is a card I have been mourning for quite some time. I have still been using it, but expecting that I would eventually have to remove it due to it's diminished power. It has been a long time, and you know what? It is not weak. The only opponent I lament it's size around is Zoo. Turn 1 you can play a dog if you have one. He is unlikely to zap it. But as soon as the first equipment hits play, his hand is forced. The early creature makes this happen. And I want this creature carrying my equipment often. They HAVE to deal with him, and that is going to be when you fall in love with Karakas all over. I am keeping my 3.
Legacy is a format full of beaters like Tarmogoyf, Nimble Mongoose, Rhox War Monk, Knight of the Reliquary, Woolly Thoctar, Wild Nacatl, and Kird Ape (which should be the bottom of the food chain for beaters). Isamaru has no place in this format. The fact that he combines with Karakas to fog an attacker isn't nearly good enough. Also, the ability to carry equipment should never be used as an excuse to run a creature, unless that creature has some sort of evasion. It's sort of like saying "Well, Flying Man pitches to Force of Will."
2b. Forget that Mangara is a signature card. The guy wins games that a weenie deck has no business winning. He stomps the crap out of control decks that otherwise tear a midrange deck like this apart. He doubles as any sort of removal you could ask for. Blocking an attacker and removing the other is about as strong a play as a recurring synergy gets. Volt said that he is a 3-mana guy with conditions to be used properly. This is true, but for my part, those conditions are almost always met with little effort. It's pretty rare for me to burn a Mangara because I do not have Karakas or Flickerwisp available. A big reason for this is the weenie shell. Mangara does not come out early. Your beaters do. He cleans up or rescues the game. By then you have seen 15-20 cards from the deck and your chances of having Karakas is apparently pretty high. I will keep these too.
What are these control decks you speak of, and who's playing them? Also, let me say that I admire the apparent ease with which you are able to assemble Mangara, Karakas, and Aether Vial with 3 counters at the same time in real game situations.
I think 3 Stoneforge is enough, honestly. In an equipment heavy deck you might want 4 but this deck is going run 5 equipment max? She's basically a dead draw once you've cleaned out your deck of equipment which makes me think that 3 is enough to see her often enough to use and abuse her abilities without overdrawing, also factor into the consideration any topdecks of equipment that you do see, thus makes Stoneforge slightly less valuable.
All that matters is the first piece of equipment (or the 2nd one if the 1st one gets destroyed, and so on). If you get Jitte or Sword on-line early enough, you're going to win. Therefore, you want to maximize your chances of finding the equipment, while maintaining a high threat density. 4 Mystics is a no-brainer, really. It's immediately one of the 2 or 3 best creatures in the deck. Maybe even THE best.
The arguments in favor of Mangara almost always prominently feature the word "if." That should tell you something.
Yeah, Mom really needs to be a 4-of. So does Stoneforge Mystic. Not sure why I'm seeing all these lists with only 3 Mystics. It's way too good to play fewer than 4.
As for Figure of Destiny, I really don't understand why people would complain about running 2 of them while continuing to run Isamarus, which just don't matter at all in Legacy. Zoo players complain about Kird Ape, which is a 2/3. Why should we be satisfied with a 2/2 beater?
Am I the only one here who has cast Ranger of Eos, fetching a Mom and a Figure? It's quite satisfying.
I just don't understand why Figure of Destiny is good in Legacy... He's a 1/1 for 1, 2/2 for 2, and 4/4 for 5. He's not going to be any bigger than a 4/4. On top of all that, he is super color-intensive. If Mangara is 'clunky' then I don't see why someone would run Figure. Mangara wins so many games if you get him and Karakas online.
4/4 is better than 2/2, which is all Isamaru is ever going to be. Btw, Figure does in fact get to 8/8 on occasion, assuming you haven't gummed up your manabase with too many colorless lands. Obviously, they are better in the mid to late game, which is why I only run 2. I also have Ranger of Eos to fetch them.
What do you need all the white for? Figure of Destiny?
Yep. That, and there's a lot of WW and 1WW spells in the deck. I really, really hate having 3 lands in play, but only 1 of them produces W. Tapping someone's Trop during their upkeep isn't enough of a consolation prize.
I think some of you are evaluating Mangara with your heart instead of your head. He's too slow and cumbersome. 3cc removal that requires you to untap and dies to every burn spell in the format is simply not good enough. Period.
And, yes, without Mangara, there's really no reason to run Karakas. Fine. Ever been stuck with an extra Karakas or two in your hand, REALLY wishing it was a Plains? Don't tell me you haven't. It's happened to me enough to stick out in my mind. And if it's happening to me, it's happening to you.
One thing I've warmed up to is the idea of playing Wastelands. I play 4 Wasteland, 1 Flagstones, 17 Plains. Works great. Never have a problem casting 3-drops and even 4-drops (i.e. Ranger of Eos -- good card, I'm telling you).
Here's a more conventional sideboard, if you prefer:
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Hydroblast
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
2 Submerge
Here's my current list, btw:
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Hibernation Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
3 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
3 Muscle Sliver
3 Syphon Sliver
SPELLS
4 AEther Vial
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
4 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Sliver Hive
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Containment Priest
1 Echoing Truth
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Harmonic Sliver
1 Hydroblast
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace
1 Submerge
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Vapor Snag
I've made some long overdue updates to the primer. I think this deck can be relevant again. See my recommended build in the OP. Highlights: Daze is out, Syphon Sliver is in. I've been doing some testing, and I can tell you my list has positive matchups against Delver and Miracles, and it's 50/50 against Burn.
Unfortunately, Nil is right, "Brawn Sliver" probably would be :symr:, which wouldn't be nearly as helpful as or for Countersliver.
Brawn Sliver
Slivers get +1/+0
1/1
Actually, it would be ideal if it were :symw:, which would make UW Countersliver a very attractive option. But it's much more likely to be if it ever gets printed. And it might.
Please, nobody needs bother mentioning the flanking sliver. I'm aware. It isn't very good.
Mutavault is fine, but I'm running Wasteland instead. Can only run so many colorless lands in the deck. Wasteland makes Daze and Spell Pierce better.
The unfortunate truth, though, is that the slivers are the worst part of the deck. Wizards has printed so many undercosted fatties in past couple of years that slivers have been pushed into obsolescence.
I barely play Countersliver any more, but here's my current list for anyone interested:
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
3 Tundra
2 Trop
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Aether Vial
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
3 Winged Sliver
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Burrenton Forge-Tender
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
Btw, Zoo becomes a fairly easy match once you take out the Hounds/Mangaras and put in Moms/Kitchen Finks. Just sayin.
Legacy is a format full of beaters like Tarmogoyf, Nimble Mongoose, Rhox War Monk, Knight of the Reliquary, Woolly Thoctar, Wild Nacatl, and Kird Ape (which should be the bottom of the food chain for beaters). Isamaru has no place in this format. The fact that he combines with Karakas to fog an attacker isn't nearly good enough. Also, the ability to carry equipment should never be used as an excuse to run a creature, unless that creature has some sort of evasion. It's sort of like saying "Well, Flying Man pitches to Force of Will."
What are these control decks you speak of, and who's playing them? Also, let me say that I admire the apparent ease with which you are able to assemble Mangara, Karakas, and Aether Vial with 3 counters at the same time in real game situations.
All that matters is the first piece of equipment (or the 2nd one if the 1st one gets destroyed, and so on). If you get Jitte or Sword on-line early enough, you're going to win. Therefore, you want to maximize your chances of finding the equipment, while maintaining a high threat density. 4 Mystics is a no-brainer, really. It's immediately one of the 2 or 3 best creatures in the deck. Maybe even THE best.
The arguments in favor of Mangara almost always prominently feature the word "if." That should tell you something.
As for Figure of Destiny, I really don't understand why people would complain about running 2 of them while continuing to run Isamarus, which just don't matter at all in Legacy. Zoo players complain about Kird Ape, which is a 2/3. Why should we be satisfied with a 2/2 beater?
Am I the only one here who has cast Ranger of Eos, fetching a Mom and a Figure? It's quite satisfying.
4/4 is better than 2/2, which is all Isamaru is ever going to be. Btw, Figure does in fact get to 8/8 on occasion, assuming you haven't gummed up your manabase with too many colorless lands. Obviously, they are better in the mid to late game, which is why I only run 2. I also have Ranger of Eos to fetch them.
I care more about improving the deck then I do about holding onto some cutesie combo that people have arbitrarily decided defines Death and Taxes.
Yep. That, and there's a lot of WW and 1WW spells in the deck. I really, really hate having 3 lands in play, but only 1 of them produces W. Tapping someone's Trop during their upkeep isn't enough of a consolation prize.
And, yes, without Mangara, there's really no reason to run Karakas. Fine. Ever been stuck with an extra Karakas or two in your hand, REALLY wishing it was a Plains? Don't tell me you haven't. It's happened to me enough to stick out in my mind. And if it's happening to me, it's happening to you.
One thing I've warmed up to is the idea of playing Wastelands. I play 4 Wasteland, 1 Flagstones, 17 Plains. Works great. Never have a problem casting 3-drops and even 4-drops (i.e. Ranger of Eos -- good card, I'm telling you).