Thanks again. I will keep it in mind as tomorrow I contact eBay over the phone before contacting the buyer.
But, my case seems more complex: I am station in the Caribbean, shipped with UPS FROM the Caribbean but usually receive shipments at a courier in Florida. So I have to see how he can ship it back from the point of origin (Santo Domingo not continental USA)
Something else I have pictures of all the boxes before shipping, perhaps I can take note of the serial numbers and use that as a confirmation of him sending me the correct one? Perhaps that would deter the buyer if he is indeed a scammer?
YES, that is excellent!
If you could provide this after appealing your case should the return go awry, you are almost assured to be granted reimbursement. 2 thumbs up for doing your homework before selling :).
And the return is his problem. He needs to foot the bill for the return, and must provide tracking in order to prove that you receive it. Do not stress yourself out about it--it is his responsibility.
A replacement item is impossible for him to demand--he must return the item or keep it and be denied a refund.
If he sends you an empty box, the recourse you have is to appeal your case to EBay, who will usually request pictures and/or a signed document from an expert witness, like an LGS owner. You have a clean record, so in this case, they would likely reimburse you for the loss and put a strike against your account (in other words, if you claim in the near future that someone else sent you an empty box as a return, they will likely deny your appeal) and the account of your buyer.
However, I have dealt on EBay for years, accepted several returns, and not once was given an empty box by a buyer as a return. I appealed a case once because someone returned a $1000+ item without any form of protection and it was damaged in the return, which forced me to go to a LGS, get him to state that the item was indeed damaged, and send it to Paypal in order to gain reimbursement.
I have seen it all on EBay, and it is a breeding ground for the worst of humanity...and the best of humanity. I remember the good old days when I would advise people about selling on EBay and how to protect oneself with adequacy...and sadly, not much has changed.
Honestly? If the packs are all in good condition, the best course of action is to accept the return and confirm that all of the contents you sent are there. You will almost never win this dispute and EBay will likely force a return, anyway. This way, you still maintain class and dignity and stand the best chance at retrieving all of the packs, which you can likely sell for $215+ on EBay at the moment (before the box gets mapped).
I have had this situation occur in the past, and know that it does little good to fight it.
That said...I wish there were more you could do here. But I am trying to maximize the probability that you receive your item back because it is so difficult to win this case.
However, EBay service reps are not experts on what a "repack" is, so if the seller's description seems "similar" to the item sent, they will likely side with the seller.
I have come across someone who is doing this on a large scale. He is ambiguous in his listing of the item as a "repack", but what took me was when someone showed me the contents of one of his listings. It was a Gatecrash "box repack" with literally no good uncommons and pretty much the junkiest selection of rares/token mythics one could intentionally assemble. You could look at the list of least expensive rares, assemble 1 or 2 of each, and add them to each pack.
To me, that is not a "chance" listing in which someone has a high probability of getting less than they pay for, but a rigged scam where there is no element of chance, only disappointment. To me, this is a huge grey area.
In my opinion, it is one of the most widespread ways people make dishonest profits from this game and feel it does significant harm to the community as a whole.
However, in your opinion, what exactly IS a repack auction supposed to be? It is so vague that it just seems like a breeding ground for a blanket full of scams.
--Should the seller of repacks have any awareness of what his buyers are receiving?
--Should any and all cards included/excluded be disseminated? (for example, in a DGM box repack, if a buyer has no chance of getting a Voice of Resurgence, should be be stated that "I removed 1 particular card from all packs and replaced it").
I only ask this because I have been doing some digging and am trying to out a person on EBay who is conducting box "repacks" by crafting his own packs around 22 of the set's crappiest rares and 2 of its crappiest mythics with few to no "chase" uncommons/commons.
In other words, he knows exactly what buyers are receiving, and he makes it seems like that one has a "chance" of receiving something better.
In my opinion, this is not a repack, but simply put, a scam. But before I continue, I just want to get the opinions of others on this practice, as I do not want to go after someone who is undeserving.
Agree on most reprints, but not MM, which will have a lower supply than originals of the same card.
Reprints in Standard-legal sets will increase the supply by more than double even at the mythic rarity. Typically, this significantly reduces the prices of originals, as well, since both have the same utility in the game itself. There are exceptions like Mutilate and Ground Seal, which received a price boost, but this is rare and largely due to demand reaching new heights.
It has been done in the past with cards that have seen far less play, along the lines of Mindbreak Trap and even creatures like Lotus Cobra. This is the king of all 1-mana discard effects being able to do something no other card has or will be able to do--target any card in an opponent's hand to be discarded.
In terms of gaming lore, it certainly makes its case to be a mythic. It feels more rare from a personal standpoint, but I will certainly empathize with those in the mythic crowd.
There is no reasoning, business-wise, logically, or otherwise to print Thoughtseize at mythic.
Anyone that thinks Thoughtseize would ever be reprinted at mythic should probably stop speculating about cards and just go back to lurking the rumor mill.
Quite an arrogant statement when one can logically back up Thoughtseize as a mythic using sufficient evidence, including price levels of staple reprints (e.g. Dark Confidant).
Myself? I am sure it will be re-printed at rare in M14, if at all, and I use the number crunch as the sole tipping point. But it is pure hubris to suggest that anyone who ever believed this card to be mythic-worthy as "unworthy of speculation".
Morningtide was praised as the best set of the block when it was Standard-legal. It has the most fantastic cards, proportionally. Lorwyn had the 5 commands and the 5 walkers, but not much else in the rare department except the tribal duals and a few other things I may be forgetting (it was excellent for commons and uncommons, though).
Shadowmoor is the same: the uncommons were the hotness: Flame Javelin, Ram-Gang, Finks, Redcap, etc, etc. And the 5 filterlands. Eventide was just horrible, Figure of Destiny + Demigod + 5 filters and not much else.
(I'm talking about Standard here btw, before evidence of a million EDH staples arises or something similar)
I will not chastise you because you failed to mention that Demigod was Shadowmoor, not Eventide--honest mistake. Your point is well-made.
I should clarify that I am speaking on a market standpoint. Morningtide's cards were either competitive viable or junk, with few truly desirable casual cards at rare...not to mention many good C/UC in Standard. Lorwyn not only had hard-hitting competitive cards, but a lot of its utility was used in casual circles. Ditto Shadowmoor. And Eventide was opened in such low amounts that junk rares pretty much do not exist.
I love how we forget the recent past oh so quickly and completely dismiss part of evidence to force our point across.
I mentioned Clique, Bosk was one of those "up in the air" cards that only a few decks needed, but yeah, I will give you the other two. I actually forgot about Colossus, considering it is now a $2-3 card.
That said, look at the main cast of rares from the set. A number of them lack casual and competitive appeal and are doomed to a dollar bin. You cannot say the same about Lorwyn, Shadowmoor, and Eventide, which has very few junk rares between them.
Mutavault dropping to $15 is already pretty harsh for players who paid premium value to either play with or speculate on. Thinking a card like Mutavault would be only 8-10 is just insane.
Consider Mutavault is a new card, akin to Cavern of Souls. Let's call it Newvault. For Standard alone people would need 4 copies, so that's already $20 minimum as Newvault is basically akin to Snapcaster/Restoration/Thragtusk/etc (and consider Tusk appeared in multiple event decks and restoration is a release promo). $25 would not be illogical for Newvault.
The fact that it's ALREADY a proven Modern-legal card makes players not interested in Standard but interested in Modern also join the demand and keep it high (just as it happens with Snapcaster, actually).
Then, the fact that Mutavault already exists will bring the price to $15, maaaaaaaaaybe $12 at an all-time low. But then it's what I said: people who paid a really high price for Mutavault ($30 or more - it's $35 now and sold out. What was the peak? $50?) won't sell if it hits a low floor (on average, obviously - people who stop playing or desperately need another card but need to sell something and a million other possible exceptions will, but I mean under normal conditions). Mutavault is a card that will rise again after it gets out of Standard, same thing as most older-format staples. They are very high when they are in Standard, then drop a lot when rotation is near or just happened, and then start to rise again. Selling Mutavault for 8 or 10 or 12 is not going to be a good decision for people who paid a lot for it and can wait, because it will see play forever in Modern plus a variety of other possible formats.
$15-20 is already half of what Mutavault is going for. I think this drop is reasonable, anything more than that is unlikely - and I'll consider buying a ton of copies if it reaches 10 or something, for the future.
Make no mistake about it, I am buying many, many copies of the card if it ever reaches $12 or lower. It will take time for it to recover to north of $20, but it may never reach its current peak of $30-40, which is why I advocate a sell signal..
$10 seems very likely, I'd say $15 is overly optimistic. Looking at standard now, what rares claim a $20 price tag? The only things even close are Snapcaster and Cavern of Souls, both standard staples that see play in eternal formats (more play than Mutavault currently does). Deathrite Shaman is IMO the best comparison for Mutavault, seeing moderate standard and eternal play, sitting right at $10.
Hot dog, we have a weiner!
And RE: Morningtide's popularity, it is also the set out of the 4 in its block with the highest density of "junk" rares. While it was in Standard, only Bitterblossom and Mutavault were desirable. Door of Destinies took time to appreciate, especially being the release foil. Idyllic Tutor gained steam when its effect began to disappear from future sets. Vendilion Clique only gained its appreciation after it left Standard (and I will never know why, as it always looked like a sick card to me).
Crazy to expect $15? Definitely not. But some ppl here are saying 8-10 and that's just lol-able.
It is what I call "harsh reality". The increased supply of opened product combined with the lower blanket value of cards printed at "rare" is why speculating/investing in the game as a whole is difficult to do since the inception of the mythic rarity.
You call it "LOL-able", but I call it "*sigh*-able"...as will be my reaction upon the release of any high-valued card of the past into a Standard-legal set.
Keep in mind that M14 will only be drafted for a short time, so this can effect value as well. However, if it's a rare we may just see it brought into Event Decks like they did with Thragtusk.
Even then, we've got a card everyone wants to get a hold of, can be played in every deck archtype, and is played in older formats. If I can get these for $20, I will do it, and quickly. I can't imagine we won't see them sell less than that until it rotates or gets another high profile reprint.
I would agree with this if I did not see Grim Lavamancer, a card every single aggressive red deck would want as a 4-of in most formats, drop to $2 after being reprinted in a core set. Shocklands dropped to about 1/3 of their pre-RtR pricing points, and I cannot see this bucking the trend.
And OK, maybe $10-12 is more accurate. Thragtusk was probably the most popular card in Standard at one point and commanded a $15 price tag. It also only appeared in M13 and no other set.
Do people expect Mutavault to go up or down in price due to this reprint?
I'm guessing down, but by how much? I really need a set of these for my Modern decks, so I am glad they reprinted it.
Down by a LOT. Morningtide was hardly-drafted and MV was a rare under the old rarity system, whereas M14 will open a ton of packs and many non-myhtic rares will be added to the supply as a result. Mutavault will likely be a $8-10 card.
YES, that is excellent!
If you could provide this after appealing your case should the return go awry, you are almost assured to be granted reimbursement. 2 thumbs up for doing your homework before selling :).
And the return is his problem. He needs to foot the bill for the return, and must provide tracking in order to prove that you receive it. Do not stress yourself out about it--it is his responsibility.
If he sends you an empty box, the recourse you have is to appeal your case to EBay, who will usually request pictures and/or a signed document from an expert witness, like an LGS owner. You have a clean record, so in this case, they would likely reimburse you for the loss and put a strike against your account (in other words, if you claim in the near future that someone else sent you an empty box as a return, they will likely deny your appeal) and the account of your buyer.
However, I have dealt on EBay for years, accepted several returns, and not once was given an empty box by a buyer as a return. I appealed a case once because someone returned a $1000+ item without any form of protection and it was damaged in the return, which forced me to go to a LGS, get him to state that the item was indeed damaged, and send it to Paypal in order to gain reimbursement.
I have seen it all on EBay, and it is a breeding ground for the worst of humanity...and the best of humanity. I remember the good old days when I would advise people about selling on EBay and how to protect oneself with adequacy...and sadly, not much has changed.
I have had this situation occur in the past, and know that it does little good to fight it.
That said...I wish there were more you could do here. But I am trying to maximize the probability that you receive your item back because it is so difficult to win this case.
I have come across someone who is doing this on a large scale. He is ambiguous in his listing of the item as a "repack", but what took me was when someone showed me the contents of one of his listings. It was a Gatecrash "box repack" with literally no good uncommons and pretty much the junkiest selection of rares/token mythics one could intentionally assemble. You could look at the list of least expensive rares, assemble 1 or 2 of each, and add them to each pack.
To me, that is not a "chance" listing in which someone has a high probability of getting less than they pay for, but a rigged scam where there is no element of chance, only disappointment. To me, this is a huge grey area.
However, in your opinion, what exactly IS a repack auction supposed to be? It is so vague that it just seems like a breeding ground for a blanket full of scams.
--Should the seller of repacks have any awareness of what his buyers are receiving?
--Should any and all cards included/excluded be disseminated? (for example, in a DGM box repack, if a buyer has no chance of getting a Voice of Resurgence, should be be stated that "I removed 1 particular card from all packs and replaced it").
I only ask this because I have been doing some digging and am trying to out a person on EBay who is conducting box "repacks" by crafting his own packs around 22 of the set's crappiest rares and 2 of its crappiest mythics with few to no "chase" uncommons/commons.
In other words, he knows exactly what buyers are receiving, and he makes it seems like that one has a "chance" of receiving something better.
In my opinion, this is not a repack, but simply put, a scam. But before I continue, I just want to get the opinions of others on this practice, as I do not want to go after someone who is undeserving.
Reprints in Standard-legal sets will increase the supply by more than double even at the mythic rarity. Typically, this significantly reduces the prices of originals, as well, since both have the same utility in the game itself. There are exceptions like Mutilate and Ground Seal, which received a price boost, but this is rare and largely due to demand reaching new heights.
It has been done in the past with cards that have seen far less play, along the lines of Mindbreak Trap and even creatures like Lotus Cobra. This is the king of all 1-mana discard effects being able to do something no other card has or will be able to do--target any card in an opponent's hand to be discarded.
In terms of gaming lore, it certainly makes its case to be a mythic. It feels more rare from a personal standpoint, but I will certainly empathize with those in the mythic crowd.
Quite an arrogant statement when one can logically back up Thoughtseize as a mythic using sufficient evidence, including price levels of staple reprints (e.g. Dark Confidant).
Myself? I am sure it will be re-printed at rare in M14, if at all, and I use the number crunch as the sole tipping point. But it is pure hubris to suggest that anyone who ever believed this card to be mythic-worthy as "unworthy of speculation".
I will not chastise you because you failed to mention that Demigod was Shadowmoor, not Eventide--honest mistake. Your point is well-made.
I should clarify that I am speaking on a market standpoint. Morningtide's cards were either competitive viable or junk, with few truly desirable casual cards at rare...not to mention many good C/UC in Standard. Lorwyn not only had hard-hitting competitive cards, but a lot of its utility was used in casual circles. Ditto Shadowmoor. And Eventide was opened in such low amounts that junk rares pretty much do not exist.
I mentioned Clique, Bosk was one of those "up in the air" cards that only a few decks needed, but yeah, I will give you the other two. I actually forgot about Colossus, considering it is now a $2-3 card.
That said, look at the main cast of rares from the set. A number of them lack casual and competitive appeal and are doomed to a dollar bin. You cannot say the same about Lorwyn, Shadowmoor, and Eventide, which has very few junk rares between them.
Not many are speculating this low, and I do not let this deter my viewpoint. Nor do I expect many people to listen to it.
Make no mistake about it, I am buying many, many copies of the card if it ever reaches $12 or lower. It will take time for it to recover to north of $20, but it may never reach its current peak of $30-40, which is why I advocate a sell signal..
Hot dog, we have a weiner!
And RE: Morningtide's popularity, it is also the set out of the 4 in its block with the highest density of "junk" rares. While it was in Standard, only Bitterblossom and Mutavault were desirable. Door of Destinies took time to appreciate, especially being the release foil. Idyllic Tutor gained steam when its effect began to disappear from future sets. Vendilion Clique only gained its appreciation after it left Standard (and I will never know why, as it always looked like a sick card to me).
It is what I call "harsh reality". The increased supply of opened product combined with the lower blanket value of cards printed at "rare" is why speculating/investing in the game as a whole is difficult to do since the inception of the mythic rarity.
You call it "LOL-able", but I call it "*sigh*-able"...as will be my reaction upon the release of any high-valued card of the past into a Standard-legal set.
I would agree with this if I did not see Grim Lavamancer, a card every single aggressive red deck would want as a 4-of in most formats, drop to $2 after being reprinted in a core set. Shocklands dropped to about 1/3 of their pre-RtR pricing points, and I cannot see this bucking the trend.
And OK, maybe $10-12 is more accurate. Thragtusk was probably the most popular card in Standard at one point and commanded a $15 price tag. It also only appeared in M13 and no other set.
Down by a LOT. Morningtide was hardly-drafted and MV was a rare under the old rarity system, whereas M14 will open a ton of packs and many non-myhtic rares will be added to the supply as a result. Mutavault will likely be a $8-10 card.