I've chatted with CJ briefly about his choices over the past 2 weeks, I'll be trying this list (give or take a card -- he wasn't 100% sold on the Obstinate Baloth so might try something else there, not sure yet) at Hartford so I'll be sure to report back. In limited testing so far it's been great, haven't missed Remand
I would actually think Burn is harder than Merfolk, a lot of our spells line up very badly against them (e.g Remand, though I guess that's true for Merfolk too) and our clock is not super fast
First list, it looks pretty sweet. Not exactly Blue Moon, well it sideboards into the Blood Moon part. Looks really fun to play, I'm going to fire it up on MTGO later
edit: I played a game with it last night, didn't have time to finish the match before I had to run. Just vs some random BW Death and Taxes thing in the Tournament Practice room but, it is so fun. My turn 6 was like (active pyro ascension) double serum visions, double noxious revival, double manamorphose, double bolt twice, double serum visions again, bedlam reveler, double lightning bolt again. Awesome.
Sure thing. I'm just tinkering at the moment, my previous list had 3 of each of those (and I've been fluctuating between 0-2 Jace). But we don't actually want to see them every game depending on the matchup. Like in the mirror, or vs Burn etc Blood Moon is very bad. And drawing 2 of them can be super awkward, I was often sideboarding 1 out on the draw anyway. Cryptic Command can also sometimes get awkward mana cost wise, so I definitely sideboard a few out occasionally. I'm a really big fan of Izzet Charm because it's super versatile, from killing Bob or countering Liliana to drawing you toward the combo. 2 could be too many though. And I like 2 Electrolyze because of the versatility and it at least cantrips. So I'm just testing this list for now. I'm also thinking of cutting 1 Lighthouse as it can be an awkward draw at times when you need like another blue source or a basic Island to have under Blood Moon, I may swap that for either a Steam Vents or an Island.
I'm thinking instead of 4x Emrakul, 3x and 1x Wurmcoil. A bit spicy, the Wurmcoil is serviceable off a Breach and can be hardcast. Might be too cute though.
That makes for 22 Lands and 26-29 spells, allowing for 9-12 flex slots.
In order to fill the open slots you need to pick your win condition:
1. Classic UR Moon -- choose from Young Pyromancer, TiTi, Snapcaster/Bolt damage, Jace tick up, Clique, even go old school with Shackles etc. Pros: No combo to assemble, just generate value from your spells. Cons: Since you don't have an I-Win button you can get worse against some matchups where the combo is very good (e.g Green Tron: Blood Moon + Breach combo makes the matchup very good, whereas durdling with Young Pyro or TitI beats they can just get enough mountains in play to start hard casting difficult to answer threats)
2. Breach combo -- requires 7-8 slots (4 Breach, 3-4 Emrakul). Pros: can be played at instant speed, even though it's a two card combo you only have to resolve one actual spell, resilient to IoK. Cons: Still a 2 card combo which can be tougher to assemble against hand disruption, sometimes it doesn't even win you the game against decks like Humans etc.
3. Kiki combo -- I'm not even sure how many slots it takes as I consider it inferior to Breach (and it seems to have died out a bit, probably due to that reason). I think 2 Kiki, 3-4 accompanying dorks (a split between Deceiver and Pestermite) Pros: I guess you can technically use Kiki to copy Snapcaster for value, or beat down with the dorks. Cons: Relies on resolving two extremely fragile spells, cannot be fully played at instant speed like Breach.
4. Madcap combo -- Requires 5 slots (3 Madcap 2 Emperion). Pros: Only 5 slots, single card combo means you don't have to piece together A+B. Cons: Sorcery speed, very bad vs Jund and several other archetypes, doesn't immediately win you the game.
I'm sure I am missing some more intricate pros & cons but that's just a quick summary off the top of my head.
Once you choose your win condition you can fill in any remaining flex slots with spells like Electrolyze, Spell Snare, Izzet Charm, Harvest Pyre, Roast, additional copies of Jace/Command etc.
Yes, the Thing in the Ice version will play a bit more controlling than a combo version, I normally call Breach version a "Combo Control" (same concept as Scapeshift which I was a big fan of back in the Birthing Pod meta days).
I'm experimenting with Young Pyromancers in the sideboard vs Jund and other grindy matchups, with the thought of swapping out the combo entirely in that matchup, as it can be difficult to assemble through their disruption and I can see them sideboarding out removal. I also added a fourth copy of Emrakul for the same reason, to make the deck a little bit more redundant against disruption. Has anyone tested any sideboard "transformations" to a more classic UR Moon style? I've been testing the list but haven't played vs Jund yet (though I have actually brought in anywhere from 2-4 Pyro's in some control matchups where I had extra stuff to bring out, just to be a bit more proactive, which has been successful).
For the sideboard I am actually thinking 2 EE 2 AotG. And I am a huge fan of Gigadrowse, when you draw it beating control is trivial. I'd almost want a second but it's bad any time other than when you're about to win.
I'm a big fan of a Gigadrowse in the sideboard, it's so good against Control and can come in in a pinch instead of some bad card as a pseudo Time Walk against Tron or the like.
I haven't tested with it but it seems good vs Burn and a few other matchups -- Humans I just worry about being able to get it off in time through Thalia, but I guess that's a problem with anything.
Humans is very tough. Having three do nothings (Jace) in your deck certainly isn't helping your cause. You could try a maindeck Anger of the Gods or Pyroclasm instead but IMO 3 Jace main is way too many, I'm on 1 right now and considering going to 0.
Went 4-0 in a small 16 man with my playgroup this weekend, beating Humans, G Tron, Death's Shadow, and Amulet (all 2-1).
Humans is very tough, I got pretty lucky Blood Moon locking him at one point and Pyroclasm was great. Like you said G Tron is very easy, I lost game 1 due to mana screw, died with 3 Breach 2 Emrakul in my hand stuck on 4 lands but easily won game 2 and 3. Death's Shadow was super tight, my opponent may have made a misplay at one point (tapping out for a relatively inconsequential K Command allowing me to resolve a Blood Moon) and in game 3 I got extremely lucky (topdecked a 3 outer Lightning Bolt basically). Then Amulet was interesting, I have little experience playing against it. Game 1 Blood Moon did its thing, game 2 I didn't find one and lost due to Cavern basically, and game 3 blood moon did its thing.
I think for next time I'll actually try cutting Jace or moving him to the board, I'm just not even sure if he's necessary in this version of the archetype where you want to be Blood Moon locking and then combo killing ASAP. He certainly has a home in the more durdly Young Pyro versions, for sure.
Just zoom your screen out. that's like PC/Mac 101. I guess if you're using your phone then yeah, you're ****ed.
However I'm not too thrilled with the quality of the bots picks. I guess that comes with time. I shouldn't be getting 13th pick Complete Disregard, etc.
How have you guys felt about Anticipate? Feels way better than Telling Time for me, every single time. The scenario of looking at 3 cards that I only wanted 0-1 of (generally 2+ lands and maybe something else) has actually occurred frequently, making me really happy it was Anticipate instead of Time. I like Anticipate over Peer Through Depths because I can rely on it to hit land drops early game if need be.
My sideboard is a little weird because it's for a Modern League Playoffs I've been playing in, there was about 0% chance any of the Top 4 were going to be playing Affinity, for example, and I was pretty sure at least one would be on Twin hence the Rending Volleys. I took the Destructive Revelry plan from some pro's article, there have actually been a few times the 2 damage has allowed me to go off 1 turn earlier, but I'd probably rather have something higher impact in that slot against a more broad metagame. I do really like Gigadrowse, it's moved back and forth between main and sideboard plenty of times, it's really good against any blue deck. Throwback to Hearbeat in Kamigawa/Ravnica standard haha.
I've considered, in addition to the Baloths (which I believe are very strong against Junk, though some have mixed opinions), adding a couple other heavy hitter finishers: Inferno Titan or Wurmcoil Engine are the big ones, maybe even a Karn or Ugin. Often our opponents are bringing in a ton of Scapeshift hate, for example a game I played yesterday against RW aggro where he started game 2 with two Leyline of Sanctity's in play. I was able to win off Baloth beats but would've been much easier with another huge non Scapeshift threat (I used Scapeshift to wrath his board that game which was sweet).
I was actually testing with a Sarkhan Unbroken and an Ugin maindeck very briefly for a bit -- I think the Ugin is probably bad just because it's way too expensive to have in the main vs fast decks/decks that don't care about Ugin, but the Sarkhan was interesting. I ended up cutting it and tweaking the list, but since he does at worst replace himself, I could see going back to 1 or 2 main/side as a non-Scapeshift finisher. Keranos is another option of course.
I tried the Rites sideboard option briefly, and while I admittedly did not test it very much, it seemed really bad when I did. Having to play 2 lands sideboard is super awkward (I don't believe just playing a Temple Garden or Hallowed Fountain is enough, since then it's only fetchable by the 2-4 Misty Rainforests) and drawing any of the package is just awful. Having to draw Izzet Charm and then use the weakest mode is just not where I want to be at, I would rather just devote sideboard slots to beating our hard matchups and hate since we already have an I Win button.
I tried Rites briefly in the sideboard and it was super sketchy and awkward, and just not really better than any of our other sideboard options. I cut it really fast.
I had:
1 Gifts (to go up to 4)
1 Rites
1 Elesh Norn
1 Iona
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
1 Izzet Charm (to discard any awkward draws)
Like I said, super sketchy and awkward. Basically wasting almost half of your sideboard. Mulliganing and then drawing Rites or a fatty feels really awful.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2018-03-27
First list, it looks pretty sweet. Not exactly Blue Moon, well it sideboards into the Blood Moon part. Looks really fun to play, I'm going to fire it up on MTGO later
edit: I played a game with it last night, didn't have time to finish the match before I had to run. Just vs some random BW Death and Taxes thing in the Tournament Practice room but, it is so fun. My turn 6 was like (active pyro ascension) double serum visions, double noxious revival, double manamorphose, double bolt twice, double serum visions again, bedlam reveler, double lightning bolt again. Awesome.
I'm thinking instead of 4x Emrakul, 3x and 1x Wurmcoil. A bit spicy, the Wurmcoil is serviceable off a Breach and can be hardcast. Might be too cute though.
7-8 Fetches
~2 Steam Vents
~2 Sulfur Falls
1-2 Desolate Lighthouse
~7 Islands
1 Mountain
4 Opt
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Remand
2-3 Blood Moon
2-3 Cryptic Command
2-3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
That makes for 22 Lands and 26-29 spells, allowing for 9-12 flex slots.
In order to fill the open slots you need to pick your win condition:
1. Classic UR Moon -- choose from Young Pyromancer, TiTi, Snapcaster/Bolt damage, Jace tick up, Clique, even go old school with Shackles etc. Pros: No combo to assemble, just generate value from your spells. Cons: Since you don't have an I-Win button you can get worse against some matchups where the combo is very good (e.g Green Tron: Blood Moon + Breach combo makes the matchup very good, whereas durdling with Young Pyro or TitI beats they can just get enough mountains in play to start hard casting difficult to answer threats)
2. Breach combo -- requires 7-8 slots (4 Breach, 3-4 Emrakul). Pros: can be played at instant speed, even though it's a two card combo you only have to resolve one actual spell, resilient to IoK. Cons: Still a 2 card combo which can be tougher to assemble against hand disruption, sometimes it doesn't even win you the game against decks like Humans etc.
3. Kiki combo -- I'm not even sure how many slots it takes as I consider it inferior to Breach (and it seems to have died out a bit, probably due to that reason). I think 2 Kiki, 3-4 accompanying dorks (a split between Deceiver and Pestermite) Pros: I guess you can technically use Kiki to copy Snapcaster for value, or beat down with the dorks. Cons: Relies on resolving two extremely fragile spells, cannot be fully played at instant speed like Breach.
4. Madcap combo -- Requires 5 slots (3 Madcap 2 Emperion). Pros: Only 5 slots, single card combo means you don't have to piece together A+B. Cons: Sorcery speed, very bad vs Jund and several other archetypes, doesn't immediately win you the game.
I'm sure I am missing some more intricate pros & cons but that's just a quick summary off the top of my head.
Once you choose your win condition you can fill in any remaining flex slots with spells like Electrolyze, Spell Snare, Izzet Charm, Harvest Pyre, Roast, additional copies of Jace/Command etc.
Yes, the Thing in the Ice version will play a bit more controlling than a combo version, I normally call Breach version a "Combo Control" (same concept as Scapeshift which I was a big fan of back in the Birthing Pod meta days).
This is my current list.
I'm experimenting with Young Pyromancers in the sideboard vs Jund and other grindy matchups, with the thought of swapping out the combo entirely in that matchup, as it can be difficult to assemble through their disruption and I can see them sideboarding out removal. I also added a fourth copy of Emrakul for the same reason, to make the deck a little bit more redundant against disruption. Has anyone tested any sideboard "transformations" to a more classic UR Moon style? I've been testing the list but haven't played vs Jund yet (though I have actually brought in anywhere from 2-4 Pyro's in some control matchups where I had extra stuff to bring out, just to be a bit more proactive, which has been successful).
For the sideboard I am actually thinking 2 EE 2 AotG. And I am a huge fan of Gigadrowse, when you draw it beating control is trivial. I'd almost want a second but it's bad any time other than when you're about to win.
I haven't tested with it but it seems good vs Burn and a few other matchups -- Humans I just worry about being able to get it off in time through Thalia, but I guess that's a problem with anything.
Went 4-0 in a small 16 man with my playgroup this weekend, beating Humans, G Tron, Death's Shadow, and Amulet (all 2-1).
Humans is very tough, I got pretty lucky Blood Moon locking him at one point and Pyroclasm was great. Like you said G Tron is very easy, I lost game 1 due to mana screw, died with 3 Breach 2 Emrakul in my hand stuck on 4 lands
I think for next time I'll actually try cutting Jace or moving him to the board, I'm just not even sure if he's necessary in this version of the archetype where you want to be Blood Moon locking and then combo killing ASAP. He certainly has a home in the more durdly Young Pyro versions, for sure.
However I'm not too thrilled with the quality of the bots picks. I guess that comes with time. I shouldn't be getting 13th pick Complete Disregard, etc.
This is my current list:
4 Steam Vents
3 Island
3 Forest
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Mountain
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Grove
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Halimar Depths
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Serum Visions
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Scapeshift
4 Remand
4 Cryptic Command
2 Izzet Charm
3 Anticipate
2 Repeal
2 Electrolyze
3 Rending Volley
3 Pyroclasm
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Spellskite
1 Gigadrowse
My sideboard is a little weird because it's for a Modern League Playoffs I've been playing in, there was about 0% chance any of the Top 4 were going to be playing Affinity, for example, and I was pretty sure at least one would be on Twin hence the Rending Volleys. I took the Destructive Revelry plan from some pro's article, there have actually been a few times the 2 damage has allowed me to go off 1 turn earlier, but I'd probably rather have something higher impact in that slot against a more broad metagame. I do really like Gigadrowse, it's moved back and forth between main and sideboard plenty of times, it's really good against any blue deck. Throwback to Hearbeat in Kamigawa/Ravnica standard haha.
I've considered, in addition to the Baloths (which I believe are very strong against Junk, though some have mixed opinions), adding a couple other heavy hitter finishers: Inferno Titan or Wurmcoil Engine are the big ones, maybe even a Karn or Ugin. Often our opponents are bringing in a ton of Scapeshift hate, for example a game I played yesterday against RW aggro where he started game 2 with two Leyline of Sanctity's in play. I was able to win off Baloth beats but would've been much easier with another huge non Scapeshift threat (I used Scapeshift to wrath his board that game which was sweet).
I was actually testing with a Sarkhan Unbroken and an Ugin maindeck very briefly for a bit -- I think the Ugin is probably bad just because it's way too expensive to have in the main vs fast decks/decks that don't care about Ugin, but the Sarkhan was interesting. I ended up cutting it and tweaking the list, but since he does at worst replace himself, I could see going back to 1 or 2 main/side as a non-Scapeshift finisher. Keranos is another option of course.
nice college degrees bro
I had:
1 Gifts (to go up to 4)
1 Rites
1 Elesh Norn
1 Iona
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
1 Izzet Charm (to discard any awkward draws)
Like I said, super sketchy and awkward. Basically wasting almost half of your sideboard. Mulliganing and then drawing Rites or a fatty feels really awful.