I think running 4 is correct for the same reason Vehicles runs 4 Heart of Kiran. It's just so good that you always want to have it, preferably on curve (most sequences of one drop two drop three drop allow you to spin on turn four, so it's not even a tempo negative play most of the time). Also the floor of "gain two energy, untap your Marvel" is actually useful in the late game when you're spinning multiple times a turn sometimes. It is awkward when you have multiple in your opening hand, but that's still better than not seeing it at all I think.
The boat is another one that started out as a cheeky one-of in the sideboard that was awesome every time I played it, so it turned into two, then the pro tour happened and the deck it was best against (Vehicles) was the new deck to beat, so I moved them into the main deck and they've been great. It serves a similar purpose to Oath of Chandra in turning the cat into removal (that also hits planeswalkers), Saheeli can -2 it to shoot things too, it dodges Thalia/Authority of the Consuls because it's a Vehicle, and puts opponents in a "remove this now or lose to it" position. Either they do have the removal in which case you probably traded one for one and now have an easier time getting the combo in, or they don't and you eat something and six them every turn. Leaving it back and just blinking/copying it over and over is also a good way to stabilize, since it's too big for Fragmentize and Natural State it hardly ever dies until you crew it. Those times you crew it to block and it eats an Unlicensed Disintegration are pretty brutal though, definitely watch out for that.
The disintegration getting the boat will also mean that's not breaking up the combo..so at least there's that.
Also is fumigate really a good strategy for the deck? Don't we run alot of creatures? Isn't baral's expertise out of the board vs GB just better?
[quote from="TheDeadManX »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/proven-standard/767417-primer-saheeli-rai-twin?comment=123"]How is Nahiri for you when they don't have Authority of the Consuls? I haven't actually tried her. I've played Tamiyo and currently play Chandra, and theorycrafted to myself that Nahiri would probably be worse than Chandra most of the time but I don't know if that's true.
I run 1 Nahiri MD and have another 2nd copy in the SB. I have found her to be effective anytime I've had her in hand and in play. In my experience; if they don't have a way to remove her or knock her below 2 loyalty on their turn; she becomes a good deterrent for them attacking you. They don't want their tapped creature or vehicle exiled. I don't think that I would want to run more than 2 and I do side in the 2nd if I feel that she will give me an added edge in a matchup or if the opponent is running a lot of enchantments.
Psy
</blockquote>
What list have you been playing? Have you been playing Chandra and/or Marvel? I found 1 Nahiri to be more than enough, never felt like I wanted another in the 75.
I have been toying with different 4C lists but have not tried a list with Marvel yet, is it really worth it? I have been also maining 1x Nahiri to get rid of the stupid hoser enchantment consul of the authorities, have you ran into that at all during your tourney? It also can exile scrapheap scrounger after it attacks. I find the best way to get rid of walking ballista is oath of chandra, I play oath then it's blinkable with guardian. Also you can get rid of gideon with the oath of chandra trigger at EOT if you can get it down to 2. Also did you face down any Thalias in that tourney?
Having played with and without for a few weeks each I think Marvel is definitely the way to go. The only common decks that have the white for Authority of the Consuls are Vehicles (against which I already board in Natural State) and Jeskai (against which I bring in Negate). With Marvel though it's not the end of the world if they stick one, since the backup plan of valuing them out of the game and eventually killing them with a boat/thopters/random creatures is perfectly fine (I actually win about half the games this way). I did face multiple Thalias, she's never really mattered because she dies to Harnessed Lightning/Chandra/Boat/Pyrohelix/everything else in the format. Most of the time I see Thalia I'm actually glad she's not Pia or Depala, since those often mean more damage for you the turn they come down and Thalia doesn't.
Also I used to run Oath of Chandra, I took it out for the main deck Aether Meltdown because I wanted instant speed interaction for Vehicles + I can already turn the cat into removal with the boat, but I didn't really consider the other clause; it might be worth trying to fit a couple back in.
How is Nahiri for you when they don't have Authority of the Consuls? I haven't actually tried her. I've played Tamiyo and currently play Chandra, and theorycrafted to myself that Nahiri would probably be worse than Chandra most of the time but I don't know if that's true.
@w03havoc To the Slaughter seems interesting. Do you have a swamp in the board for it, or just hope to cast it with hubs/Marvel? Also, what's your spread of card types look like? How often do you have to play out of your way to turn on Delirium for it?
The Nahiri has been solid in the deck , however so has Chandra. I wouldn't replace the Chandra but was a nice compliment to her. How important is running 4 marvel would you say over , lets say 3. 4 seems like so many...did you ever have a situation where additional copies were sitting in your hand? Also would you ever see yourself cutting down to 1 boat or is it that good? Also what is your opinion on EDF? I know a list was running 3x MD that just won an SCG classic..
I have been toying with different 4C lists but have not tried a list with Marvel yet, is it really worth it? I have been also maining 1x Nahiri to get rid of the stupid hoser enchantment consul of the authorities, have you ran into that at all during your tourney? It also can exile scrapheap scrounger after it attacks. I find the best way to get rid of walking ballista is oath of chandra, I play oath then it's blinkable with guardian. Also you can get rid of gideon with the oath of chandra trigger at EOT if you can get it down to 2. Also did you face down any Thalias in that tourney?
I was playing a friend tonight that had this deck but in the straight UR build just splashing white. Counterspells , shocks, dig and combo that's it. Very hard to beat, was also using 4 mana chandra. I was playing B/W control pretty much has no hope of beating that deck and you'd think it's good because of MD Thalia and anguished unmaking as well as transgress, but it somehow finds a way to win.
I don't think the swiftwing does enough damage , you are looking to enchant this guy...and that's not too good... he's not stand alone enough value I think.
Yeah i'd rather have my threats on bodies instead of using an aura getting 2 for one'd in this deck is going to be hard to come back from, every card has to count..I'm going to put together a list and see what people think, we need to basically make the most efficient 75 after the whole spoiler is seen. There is a chance to still pickup something else ..here's a rough list of what I think can get there..
4 gnarled scarhide
4 tormented hero
4 bloodstained brave
4 herald of torment
4 sign in blood
4 spiteful returned
4 mogis marauder
2 Hall of Triumph
4 pain seer
4 thoughtseize
Is pain seer good enough for this deck? I feel like he just doesn't do anything. Sadly to say, he just ain't bob. He's going to run into a caryatid or a courser all day long, or now a rakshasha deathdealer or something along those lines. The deck needs more steady reliable cards I feel. We should just run sign in blood over him if we need some extra cards, plus it's a kill in a pinch. I'm really excited about the potential of master of feasts. It's essentially a must answer card, he gets one swing in we get the value out of him. My question is can this deck handle master of feasts AND herald of torment?
Hi. I don't know if many of you know me; but, I'd like to think that I'm known to god of cyanide (:hi:). Apologies if I'm encroaching on your turf. I was spurred on to posting after 'random-threading', reading, and reading of secessionist considerations.
I'm not sure what to say; but,
I don't follow football or many sports;
Sorry to hear about everyone's strife, what with work and stuffed-up wages;
I don't do Magic: The Gathering and don't understand these bannings and stuff;
Site things are what they are (:muh:);
Falling in line is a fact of life.
I should probably disclose the fact that I've rather successfully avoided the state of New York thus far, not that I have problems or unjustified, a priori preconceptions about NYC or the rest of the state, and that I'd not be considering joining (even if I had ties to it). An itinerary would be good but I'm not free until December-ish. I guess suggestions would be nevertheless invaluable anyway.
Sorry for the poor post, lol.
aaaand the winner for oddest post in NYC dark knights history goes to...this guy! What exactly does all this mean?
Wow, look at you, brother, causing chaos in this piece and all.
I'll see what I can do about turning out some product. Dunno if I'll have the time to make it happen for RTR, but I have plenty of time to prep for Gatecrash, plus, it comes at a time in my schedule when I should have more time for such an endeavor.
I'd love it if OH NO! MAN were to grace us with set reviews again. I want to be clear about that. But, ****, man, we can all do what we like.
You guys certainly can do whatever you like. I certainly would not stand in one's way of doing whatever that individual would like to do. However, the proof is in the pudding boys. *Lets see it* I however would love to see OH NO MAN back on the mtg scene with a new review! Probabally should have been a flaming infraction more then a spamming infraction though...
Well, let's see what's wrong with this:
1) Yes, his commentary was great, no lie. But it's been close to five years since he last graced us with such things. I gave you a hell yeah on it, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.
2) Unknown voices? Mikey K has his YouTube and other gigs, and, hey, I've had a radio gig (-ish) as well. So, that.
3) Let other men rise up and have some glory.
You can "MEH" on that all you want, brother, but things change. We can only go with the flow.
All your comment did for me, brother, was make me want to do it more.
Well if that's the case, let's see it! I will happily beat on the sidelines, ahh.
Infraction issued for Spamming the Forums, after several warnings were already given.
Also, I put a part of the post in spoiler tags because it was affecting the layout - votan
For the unaware, construction of MirroCube has begun. We chose the top 60 cards of each color, and added in multicolor (and Karn) and lands. So, all that's left are artifacts and testing... Temporary sleeves are in place as well.
Lousy game by the Jets, but a dub's a dub, so... And, how bout them Ravens, beating the Pats? I like looking down in the standings and seeing the Patriots with a losing record; I know it's not going to last long.
@ Samoht: I've been trying to follow between here and FB. Sounds like something's up. If you wanna talk, brother, anytime... You know.
But the whole point was OH NO MAN's commentary....I ask for a hell yeah and all I get are men wanting to put their unknown voices on the radiowaves, MEH.
GOOOOOLDBEEEEERG! GOOOOOOOOOLDBEEEEERG! haha. This following line is just to fill in so I don't get accosted by mods. It's just more filler now, because I really just wanted to type golderg, goldberg, but since that probabally would have led to a "spam" warning or strike instead I must fill all my posts with mindless extra drivel. Appreciate it mods, *wink* , here's lookin at chu kids.
The disintegration getting the boat will also mean that's not breaking up the combo..so at least there's that.
Also is fumigate really a good strategy for the deck? Don't we run alot of creatures? Isn't baral's expertise out of the board vs GB just better?
What list have you been playing? Have you been playing Chandra and/or Marvel? I found 1 Nahiri to be more than enough, never felt like I wanted another in the 75.
The Nahiri has been solid in the deck , however so has Chandra. I wouldn't replace the Chandra but was a nice compliment to her. How important is running 4 marvel would you say over , lets say 3. 4 seems like so many...did you ever have a situation where additional copies were sitting in your hand? Also would you ever see yourself cutting down to 1 boat or is it that good? Also what is your opinion on EDF? I know a list was running 3x MD that just won an SCG classic..
4 gnarled scarhide
4 tormented hero
4 bloodstained brave
4 herald of torment
4 sign in blood
4 spiteful returned
4 mogis marauder
2 Hall of Triumph
4 pain seer
4 thoughtseize
aaaand the winner for oddest post in NYC dark knights history goes to...this guy! What exactly does all this mean?
You guys certainly can do whatever you like. I certainly would not stand in one's way of doing whatever that individual would like to do. However, the proof is in the pudding boys. *Lets see it* I however would love to see OH NO MAN back on the mtg scene with a new review! Probabally should have been a flaming infraction more then a spamming infraction though...
Well if that's the case, let's see it! I will happily beat on the sidelines, ahh.
MEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEHMEH
MEH.
Infraction issued for Spamming the Forums, after several warnings were already given.
Also, I put a part of the post in spoiler tags because it was affecting the layout - votan
But the whole point was OH NO MAN's commentary....I ask for a hell yeah and all I get are men wanting to put their unknown voices on the radiowaves, MEH.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ytukSBE28Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9L0KltAD20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cgMsPw1E5M
And the coup de gras :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIAtU2Nsamg&feature=channel&list=UL
OH NO MAN, PLEEEEASE DO IT AGAIN!
If you want OH NO MAN to do another set review GIMME A HELL YEAH!