MTG Salvation

Quote from JohnnyDegenerate »

It's May 12, 2016, and Iona, Shield of Emeria is still not banned for breaking the spirit of the format.

Just a reminder.

Is there anything positive that Iona does for games of Commander?

Has anyone else ever had difficuly double-sleeving their cards before? I recently picked up a few packs of KMC Perfect Fits because I had heard that they were the creme de la creme of inner sleeves. When I went to place my sleeved cards inside my Matte Dragon Shields, I found that the Dragon Shields would push the Perfect Fit off of the card as I attempted to press the card into the second sleeve. This was a source of great frustration for me as I was only ever able to double-sleeve a single card correctly. Is this normal or are KMC Perfect Fits less compatible with Dragon Shields than they are with other sleeves?

Quote from tstorm823 »

You're barking up the wrong tree here. I am the casual crowd. My Riku deck is Precursor Golem themed. My beloved Zedruu thread has a rant about how 4 pieces is the right number to combo and any less is no fun. I'm literally the guy who plays Chromium. I had 7 simultaneous Kamigawa tribal decks at one point (Iname as One spirits, 5c spirit/arcane, goblins, rats, foxes, moonfolk, snakes). I've put a Primal Surge into Knowledge Pool just to see what would happen. I'm not a competitive player, I just hate what Sol Ring does to the game. It's like starting a round thinking you're playing against Dr. Jekyll and suddenly your opponent transforms into Mr. Hyde, and Sol Ring is the serum that makes that happen.

Is Sol Ring really as bad as you say it is?

I'm not going to argue about whether or not Sol Ring is a balanced card in Commander. It certainly isn't. Any player that lands a turn one Sol Ring definitely has an enormous advantage over everyone else at the table who doesn't. Despite this, I've found that games are not solely decided by who has a lucky opening hand and who doesn't. To the best of my memory, I can only recall having ever played one game where Sol Ring was the underlying reason why somebody won; the fortunate player succeeded in ramping into the quickest Lorthos, the Tidemaker I've ever seen and subsequently locked out everyone else's permanents the following turn.

I suppose the question I mean to ask is, "if Sol Ring doesn't single-handedly decide games, does it still ruin them?" You may disagree with me, but I believe that Sol Ring doesn't single-handedly decide games. Beyond that, I'm not sure Sol Ring ruins games either. Last week, I sat down with four other friends for a game of Commander. Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer had an especially fortunate hand, casting Sol Ring turn one into Boros Signet. Through the combined efforts of players sitting across the table though, much of the tempo gained by the Sol Ring was mitigated. Kozilek, the Great Distortion cast a Phyrexian Revoker naming Sol Ring, which slowed Kadeen down, and eventually the entire board was reset via Oblivion Stone. These types of situations are common to me; when one player casts Sol Ring and sprints toward victory, the rest of the powers that be are almost always able to keep that force in check. The player that casts an early Ring is undoubtedly advantaged, but never so much that it outright ruins the game for all parties involved.

Which leads me to one point that I want to make about Sol Ring that I feel is important. Sol Ring is ridiculously powerful. Because of how powerful it is, Sol Ring has the ability to determine which lucky player will have a significant advantage at the start of the game. I find this dynamic interesting. In some games of Commander, the underdog at the table can draw a Sol Ring and be ahead of their peers. Other times, the most powerful deck at the table will open with an early Sol Ring and proceed to dominate the rest of the game if the other players fail to work together against a shared enemy. Sol Ring is seldom so powerful that it can determine the winner of a game alone by who draws it, but it certainly will give that player a massive edge. If Sol Ring isn't "ruining" the games it's involved in, isn't this sort of element exciting for multiplayer?

Quote from metalevolence »

The only one of these that's really good, in basically any deck, is preordain.

Brainstorm is good but only if you run a lot of tutors/nature's lores and the maximum number of fetchlands.

The next best is a tie between sleight of hand and serum visions.

Ponder is considerably worse and I wouldn't run in a deck that doesn't get value from playing cantrips.

Would you be willing to elaborate further on why you believe Ponder to be a considerably worse card than Sleight of Hand and Serum Visions? Some users seem to feel the other way.

Quote from PrettyFlyForAGreenGuy »

The main 4 I run are Sensei's Divining Top, Brainstorm, Ponder, and Impulse. I consider SDT a cantrip effect because it almost always just replaces itself. BS and Ponder are two of the most powerful cantrip effects, and that's why they get included, and Impulse is another great one that I don't run in any other format I play because of the two mana.

As far as other cantrip effects go, I wouldn't run them unless they interact with the general in some way, or the deck construction needs it. For example, in Talrand, I would run a high amount of cantrips, because they help me dig for specific answers while generating 2/2 flying drake tokens. Keranos, God of Storms gets his own set of cantrips that I can use to interact with his ability. I pretty much use them to set up Keranos reveals into the trigger I want. This list includes: Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Telling Time, Serum Visions, and Sensei's Divining Top. I like the cantrips in Keranos better when they turn into Divinations or weirdly strong Electrolyzes. And cantrips of course get better when you run stuff like Sphinx-Bone Wand, which I did in Talrand and Keranos.

The other place I would run more cantrips is in dedicated combo lists, such as mono-blue High Tide or Storm. I tend to lean on cantrips in combo decks where I can't lean on black tutors.

The prevailing sentiments on cantrips in my area is: Brainstorm and Ponder are still great, Impulse is good enough because the format allows you enough durdle time to cast a 2-mana cantrip, and all others fall by the wayside unless your build can make use of them.

You never mention Preordain in your post. Do you consider it to be the worst of Ponder, Brainstorm, Impulse, and Sensei's Divining Top? Some users consider it to be the best.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

You definitely don't want to overdo it because EDH decks need a critical density of bombastic stuff, but these cards are pretty darn good. For any deck that includes black I'd put Night's Whisper firmly at the top of the ranking. Sorry, Brainstorm, but free shuffle effects aren't as abundant in EDH as in Legacy.

I'm glad you decided to mention Night's Whisper. Ultimately, I consider any sort of inexpensive card draw or library manipulation effect to be a "WD-40 card." Their purpose is just to provide the deck with the lubricant necessary to ensure it runs smoothly.

Quote from Darcykun »

Not sure if I'd be able to find room for them in five-color, but generally speaking they're very good. I can't believe you don't see them all the time. Card selection is amazing in singleton. Digging is amazing in singleton. Instead of adding a sixth bomb to my deck, I could add a card that helps me get to the better bombs. Instead of adding a 36th land, I could add a card that helps smooth my draws.
I would argue that Ponder is better than Sleight of Hand and Serum Visions because you see the most cards before you draw, which feels immensely important. Preordain is pretty easily the best.

I believe there are a few reasons why I typically don't see Ponder effects all too often:

1. The Commander players at my LGS are mostly casual. They definitely like to play with powerful cards, but Ponder effects are powerful in much more subtle way.
2. Ponder effects make decks more consistent. That consistency somewhat undermines why folks enjoy playing Commander; they're looking for variety in each game.
3. You can't run as many fun, over-the-top cards if your deck is filled with Ponder variants. I'm definitely guilty of this last one.

Conventional wisdom has always told me that Ponder, Preordain, and other similar drawfixing cantrips are extremely powerful Magic cards, yet I seldom ever see them cast in Commander. When I do encounter such cards, it's almost always under the command of a general like Melek, Izzet Paragon that overtly synergizes with them. I'm currently in the process of constructing a new, five-color control deck and I need to decide whether or not I should bother including cards like Ponder in my 99. I personally have little experience with such cards in Commander and wanted to reach out to the folks here at MTGS for advice.

Are Ponder, Preordain, and the rest of their ilk worth playing in Commander? If they are, how many do you typically choose to include in your decks? Is Brainstorm good enough? How about Impulse? Sleight of Hand? For the sake of this discussion, assume that whatever deck playing these effects does not contain other cards that synergize especially well with them such as Sphinx-Bone Wand or Talrand, Sky Summoner.

I have really strong feelings about Scour from Existence: I think it's unplayable garbage.

I currently pilot a mono black deck with Kothophed, Soul Hoarder as my Commander and as such I have very limited ways in which I can deal with problematic artifacts or enchantments. Nonetheless, I'm not even considering Scour from Existance. Why? It just costs too much. At seven mana, I could cast nearly any spell I want. I can think of a lot of cards I'd rather play before exiling a single permanent in play for the same cost. Scour from Existance's versatility is not worth any cost in decks that don't have access to that effect. Would you be willing to play the card if it cost 20 mana? How about 10? 8? For me, this card would have to cost 4 mana to be playable. A card able to cover the weaknesses of a color that can't normally interact with certain permanent types isn't worthwhile including if it's prohibitively expensive; I could just play with other independently powerful cards instead.

Hey folks!

I'm looking for a new deck to play come Battle for Zendikar because my existing GW Constellation deck doesn't survive the rotation and the Eldrazi Processors sort of caught my eye. Of all the Processor cards, these five captured my interest the most:

Blight Herder
Wasteland Strangler
Processor Assault
Ulamog's Nullifier
Oblivion Sower

There are a lot of great cards in Battle for Zendikar that are designed to support Processor creatures, but most of the Processor creatures appear to be designed for Limited. The ones I listed above are the only cards I saw that I believe may have potential in Standard. Honestly, I'm questioning how good even these five are. Blight Herder is perhaps my favorite of the lot; his mana to body ratio feels incredibly efficient. Wasteland Strangler is a card I like quite a bit as well, but his two toughness scares me, causing him to be vulnerable to cards like Fiery Impulse. I also question just how many cards his Last Gasp ability will be able to slay in the coming format. Nonetheless, casting a turn two Horribly Awry or a Transgress the Mind into a turn three Wasteland Strangler seems reasonable against any deck playing small creatures.

Processor Assault is an efficient removal spell, but Roast already exists, so it doesn't feel particularly special to me unless blasting flying creatures is especially relevant or the colorlessness of the spell matters because of cards like Herald of Kozilek. Ulamog's Nullifier, despite being on my list, looks questionable to me. I almost think it's a downright terrible card. Being four mana, multicolored, and requiring removing two cards from exile seems like quite a steep cost. If you wanted unconditional countermagic, I could always just play a card like Scatter to the Winds instead, which costs one less mana, doesn't require two colors, and doesn't require any processing. Sure, you lose out on the Nephalia Seakite, but just how good is that card anyway? Scatter to the Winds already has the added bonus of sometimes providing you with a body via awaken.

Last on my list is Oblivion Sower. Honestly, this guy has me stumped. With the exception of Crumble to Dust, which synergizes immensely with the Sower, none of the other devoid spells work with this guy because they all hit nonland cards. Unless your opponent just happens to delve their own lands away, expecting to process lands with Oblivion Sower beyond the initial four cards it hits seems unrealistic, so it may not really have a place with the rest of the Processors at all. That said, a 5/8 for 6 that probably puts about two lands into play for you is not too unlike a Primeval Titan. Some deck may be interested in that card, but I'm just not sure that it's this one.

Having gone through what I believe are all the notable Processors, why should I care about the support cards like Horribly Awry and Transgress the Mind if none of the Processors are good enough to take advantage of the fact that they exile cards? I have my hopes up for Blight Herder and Wasteland Strangler, but I'm still uncertain if jumping through the hoops will be worth the cookie. I'm also really excited about the idea of playing Infinite Obliteration alongside Processors in some sort of B/x control strategy since the Obliteration can easily put four cards into exile all on its own, but the Processors have to be good enough to make it worth doing.

I don't understand the purpose of the seven point Highlander system. It seems to me that the system outright acknowledges that certain cards (anything with point costs) are problematic in Commander and that by limiting how many of those kinds of cards an individual can play with, the format will craft a better game. That strikes me as quite odd. If those cards are problematic, why allow players to use them at all? Is it because those cards are only problematic when used in tandem excessively? I don't buy into that argument. Is it because the format's designers want players to be able to play with powerful cards, but not too many? That seems very difficult to prohibit from a rules perspective. There are numerous cards that are nearly as powerful if not more so than several of the one point cards on the list and the point cost of some of those cards, as listed above by beGreen, seem questionable.

Elspeth, Sun's Champion is quite potent.

I would love to support this format. How should I go about doing so?

I can't say I'm surprised. Enemy color pairs was pretty low-hanging fruit.

Quote from Tangaray »

Forbidden Orchid is one that comes to mind that I play in my 3-color decks(Sharuum and Narset, mainly) as the color fixing is higher than giving an opponent a spirit.

Forbidden Orchard is also a card I never expected myself using ubiquitously, but for different reasons than the one you stated. I include the card in everything. I'm honestly contemplating using it instead of a basic land in a monocolor deck. Maybe I should wrote an extensive thread about the subject.

Can I suggest that this thread be locked?

This was an excellent thread, but it has run its course and there really isn't any need to necro it any further, especially since I no longer even have the deck anymore.

Although they don't help you against Obliterate, if you're facing off against other MLD cards like Armageddon, you can mitigate the damage MLD does to your manabase by playing with mana rocks. Many players tend to prefer playing ramp spells that search for lands in green instead of playing mana rocks because lands tend to be less vulnerable than artifacts. Putting all of your mana in one basket means that you risk getting hit harder by MLD cards though. Exchanging cards like Cultivate for cards like Worn Powerstone will leave you less vulnerable after everyone's lands are destroyed.

Quote from hyalapterouslemur »

Quote from Darcykun »

Harvester of Souls is pretty trash in my opinion. The mana cost is a huge downside. I want my value engines to be cheap. The reason you're slotting Harvester into a deck isn't for the 5/5 body, or for the deathtouch (deathtouch on a 5/5, seriously?), it's for the effect.

You're in black You'll think of something

(Though, there are 6/6s with deathtouch too. I've played Grave Titan in spite of that.)

But seriously, RTFC. Ahem...

Morph B

Whenever another nontoken creature you control dies, draw a card.

Harvester doesn't say "you control", making Harvester far more playable in multiplayer.

Although I generally agree that Harvester of Souls is better than Grim Haruspex in most decks, I find your post to be a bit rude.

Darcykun already understands that the cards function differently. He outright admits that when he states that "Haruspex is more limited, sure." He simply values having access to Haruspex's ability more because it costs half as much mana. That's an important quality of the card because you won't always have a way to cheat Harvester of Souls (or any creature for that matter) into play. Furthermore, if each creature that dies while Grim Haruspex is on the battlefield is under your control anyways, the card functions identically to the Harvester. While I don't believe that circumstance to be especially prevalent, certain decks may excel at creating said circumstances and may wish to opt for the cheaper of the two options.