Magic Market Index for Sep 21st, 2018
 
The Limited Archetypes of Guilds of Ravnica
 
Magic Market Index for Sep 14th, 2018
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    Thanks for a really great game, everyone. I haven't played a more tense, nailbiting game of anything in a long while (though that might have been due to the pressure on me from D2 onwards XD) but I really enjoyed it. Major props to the town for some really great play, you probably deserved to win after the excellent setup analysis and action logic D3 and 4.

    If anyone has any tips for me, I'd really appreciate them, being as this was really my first game (my only previous one being so long ago I can't even remember what happened) and I really don't feel like I played optimally at all (placing 3 out of the 5 hammers? :/) so any advice on how to improve or what bits of my game I need to work on in future games would be really useful.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    Quote from Cythare
    Quote from Void
    Quote from Shockwave07
    Dang it Void!!!!


    Don't you dare put the blame on me.


    Quote from Megiddo
    I think void did the right thing, for the record. There's no way I ever fire off a vote in his position then unless I'm 100% sure.

    —the guy who dragged an endgame out for a month


    Nodding the Affirmative

    100% agree with this. It was in the scum's best interest to have a quick Day (ideally with a lynch on Town), and while Megs did a great job on a convincing first post, it was the fact that everyone was vote-happy that caused this (DCIII included - just because his vote was on scum doesn't mean it didn't accelerate the Day faster than necessary).

    While Void could have hammered scum by voting for FIGHTING, I would argue that he is the one *least* to blame here.


    Yeah, /agree as well, Void was totally correct in trying to slam the brakes on, you had all the information you needed to wrap it up, I feel.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    Having read the spec chat I'm pretty much bemused as some of you guys are that I even survived this game :/
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    Major props to Meggido, btw. I apologise for all my terrible nooby plays!
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    Yeah, major congratulations on the baby, DCIII, I'm seriously impressed with the insight you posted with today considering having a newborn to look after!
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    My heart is beating so hard right now.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    Unvote, Vote DCIII
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    Lol, EWP: "Beyond that, there's no case against me that isn't either promulgated by scum or based on the faulty (and WIFOM-laden) assumption that Shockwave delayed me N1."
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    Okay, I understand your logic on FIGHTING now you lay it out a bit more re. the role thing, but you are wrong when it comes to me; I get that hammering Rhand looked bad, but I was run up to L-1 that day and it was dragggging and I just wanted to end it on someone other than me's lynch. Beyond that there's no If it is two scum left (and we have to assume that because of lylo if so) then FIGHTING seems like a certain choice. Your argument as to why it CAN'T be Void is full of WIFOM and assumes he's the RB when I think it's much more likely to be FIGHTING with that interaction. I also don't think being off the Shockwave wagon entirely clears you and Rezombied if there are two scum left in the game, although I think Void + FIGHTING is much more likely.

    Void has never, as far as I can tell, commented on the possibility of a Poisoner in the game, and moved his vote FROM me to Shockwave after a fairly long post about why I am obviously scum and should die solely based on Cythare's (his scumbro's) words. He strongly pushed me based on Shockwave's mistaken claim that he delayed my hypothetical kill, which makes sense with him as poisoner too, jumping on and hyping the alternative solution that would get a townie lynched (and it did, eventually, thanks to Shockwave's odd plays and both FIGHTING and Void jumping on the wagon).

    Happy to vote either FIGHTING or Void since I think that's the solution now.

    Unvote, Vote FIGHTING
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    Sorry, have been busy over the weekend with preparations for christmas. I still think I am right about the delayed kill effect, although obviously Shockwave wasn't the letter bomber. I still think Void is scum, and has been riding the auto-town ticket thanks to Blue's read on him early on. His switch vote to Shockwave seemed opportunistic to me, too.

    Vote Void

    I'm gonna be tied up with travel etc. Wednesday and Thursday, and will have limited access tomorrow (Monday), so consider me V/LA until friday just in case I don't get time to post on Tuesday.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    Quote from iRebel


    Except, if you read Cythare's role PM, it says he can perform a standard Mafia kill. So much for that eh?

    I want dibs on Idle's hammer.


    What?? That doesn't contradict anything of what I said?? Cythare could perform the standard mafia kill, instead of Shockwave or Void, who can perform a special mafia kill instead? I don't understand your train of thought at all.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    My idea of how a mafia poisoner could work is pretty simple, and follows what I've read in other games; if the poisoner performs the night kill, they may use their poison ability to make that kill be delayed by one night. I'm guessing that on N2 Cythare did the kill rather than the poisoner.

    I believe the poisoner is Shockwave. He hasn't targetted anyone this game other than me, a vanilla with no role, so we have no mechanical evidence that he has that ability at all! Poisoner would make MORE sense with his flavour than delayer. Delayer is a GREAT fake claim for a mafia poisoner because he can use it to explain double kills. It all just fits together. Even looking at his interaction with Cythare; the main one that springs to mind is D2; everyone pretty much followed Shockwave's delayer claim into a voting for me but Cythare came out strongly AGAINST my lynch, and would havev got major townpoints when I flipped town.

    Vote Shockwave07

    If there's a third mafioso it's Void.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    Quote from iRebel
    Also, if it isn't Idle, then how do we explain the double NK?


    The double NK is perfectly explained by a mafia poisoner, as I've said before; and it also explains why there was no kill tonight; as Shockwave said, why wouldn't the mafia RB iRebel and successfully perform a NK rather than RBing DCIII? Answer: because with a Poisoner role they don't need to worry about the doc. And that means tonight, there would be likely be two night kills, only one of which can be prevented by iRebel.

    Shockwave, remind me who you claim to have targeted N2?

    iRebel, why give Void a gift?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    Quote from Void
    @Idle:
    My Mafia Stats are in my Sig. Look at all 15 or so games that Iso and I have played and find one game where Iso was wrong about my alignment. Seriously. Iso flipped Town and you're STILL trying to discredit him. You are Scum, please die.


    This is total WIFOM and everyone should ignore it. It's also gambler's fallacy; you can't expect us to believe that him being right even a hundred times before means that this isn't the game where you've finally figured out how to play your town game while scum. And I'm not trying to discredit him, at all, I'm sure he honestly believed you were town. I don't.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Mini Game] Futurama - The Hostile Takeover Game Over - MAFIA WIN!!!
    I haven't got a lot of time tonight to do quote-walls and so forth, so I'll just post what I'm thinking having read this weekend's business. This two docs thing rings really sour to me. I reaaaally don't like the double claim of inventor+doc. That comes across as bizarre as all hell to me, especially claiming he can do both each night. Is a mafia inventor a thing?? My first thought is iRebel is using his inventor role (assuming he's telling the truth about that) to shoehorn himself in as confirmed town, when only DCIII can 'confirm' that right now.

    Let's assume for a sec that someone is lying about their role; I think two docs (plus a potential backup) is obviously very strong. Either we have:

    1. Cythare lying (as mafia) and CCed by iRebel with a very strong (and very swingy) role. Requires iRebel to be telling the truth about an obscure role AND Cythare to be ballsy enough to false claim doc in a setup where there is very likely to be a doc (ie neutral with a multiple kill ability).

    2. iRebel as mafia WITH a inventor role ccing Cythare just to get him lynched. Still requires iRebel to be a obscure combo of role and alignment, and still requires a very bold (dumb?) move CCing a claimed doc when they could have just nked him that night.

    EITHER situation seems to be absurd to me. There's also...

    3. iRebel is mafia without an inventor role and DCIII is scumbuddy; I haven't got time right now to check if BlueElectric breadcrumbed/admitted that she had recieved a gift from iRebel but my memory says no. This scenario seems unlikely though because it requires both mafia to have outed themself with a gambit that doesn't really achieve much! I think that that makes no sense at all and it pretty much town-confirms DCIII for me. Also this requires iRebel to have the list of planets for some other reason.

    Anyway, putting that aside for now since I can't get behind any of those possibilities.

    Regarding the two kills, I have been having a think; I am convinced there is either a mafia with extra kills or a mafia poisoner in this setup. No matter what the situation with Cythare/iRebel is, we also have a bulletproof (I agree with what has been said above about his behaviour helping to confirm this), had a backup, have a rolecop-esque ability (I can't really judge how powerful this is), AND we had a tracker, all against two mafia and a neutral vig... I feel it would make sense for there to be a mafia extra kill ability (presumably just one-shot) just from a balance perspective. This would mean the mafia targetted Guardman and BlueElectric N2, which sort of makes sense to me based on the game at that point.

    The alternative is a poisoner; the scum could have used a delay-kill N1. I'm guessing Blue, since he had already been outed as a strong player and the scum would have known at that point that he was town and could be a problem later. If they weren't under a lot of pressure at the time, and having avoided being lynched D1, a delayed kill right then wouldn't have cost them anything but would have definitely increased confusion (as it in fact did) and maybe got a mislynch off (as it nearly did on me due to Shockwave's claimed action).

    This leads me to a question: exactly how unlikely/overpowered is two docs? I appreciate that by docing each other they could prevent the mafia from killing two town indefinitely, but given the possibility of a RB, and extreme likelihood that they'd counterclaim each other at some point and one of them (if not both) would get lynched as a result of it, I'm not so sure it's so beyond the realms of possibility as has been suggested.

    I'd be happy to wait a night before lynching either of them, just to get some clear information. DCIII, since you are more suspicious of Cythare, would you consider using your rolecop on him tonight to confirm his role? As I have stated above, I think DCIII is pretty much confirmed town now.

    My scum suspects are:
    Void - for reasons explained previously. I don't think 'Iso can always read Void' holds any water. If I know anything about Iso's meta from what I've read it's that he's overconfident about his reads.

    plus one of the following

    iRebel/Cythare; assuming there aren't two docs.
    or
    Shockwave; if there is a mafia poisoner, Shockwave is he. A delayer plus a poisoner has weird interactions and delayer seems like a logical falseclaim for a poisoner as it introduces the idea of actions being delayed without being overtly scummy; this makes sense too as to why he'd have claimed early.
    or
    FIGHTING; Has claimed another role which rings oddly to me, and is driving the Cythare lynch on the basis of the fact she believes his doctor claim, which seems upside down logic to me. Her case hinges on the idea that there can't be two town docs, which I don't think is as open-and-shut as it could be. If DCIII confirms Cythare as doc then I'm gonna give serious consideration to the possibility that it's Void+FIGHTING.

    This quick catchup post turned long Frown now it's 6:30am local time.

    Vote Void

    since I thought I already was. His recent behaviour (asking random timewastey questions about flavour and holding back from the doc debate) hasn't done anything to dispel my suspicion.
    Posted in: Mafia
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