The list posted is vastly different than the list I play. A couple qualifiers before I post the deck and my thoughts on matchups. I only play paper at FNM so I maybe get 3-4 matches a week with a random PPTQ (made top 4) thrown in there. That being said, I've amassed 62 matches with the deck going 34-26-2 over the past 6 months or so.
At it's heart this deck is a control deck and I play it as such. The deck struggles with aggro and large cheap creatures (Hollowed One and Angler come to mind).
As you can see, I've gone the route of processors. They influenced a number of my card choices.
Creatures
- Dimensional Infiltrator is an amazing card. Given that all my turn two plays are instant speed I don't have to decide whether to play a creature or hold up remove or a counter. It can also help fuel processors with its ability, mess with the top of a UW Control player's deck when they have Jace, and sometimes you even get lucky and are able to bounce the creature out of harms way.
- If I'm in UB then it seems silly not to play Nullifier. Being a counterspell stapled to a creature has its advantages (i.e. gets around negate and dispel) and combined with Cavern of Souls you will always win counter wars.
- Blight Herder is backbreaking against most decks. Seven power split across 4 guys gives many decks headaches. Up until a couple weeks ago I played 4 maindeck. I cut one for the Ratchet Bomb but I could see myself going back up to four if this experiment doesn't work out.
- Reality Smasher is notably absent from my list. I used to have Smasher in the deck, 2 main and 1 side, but I always found myself not playing them to hold up coutnermagic. They require a more proactive game plan, one that I was not playing so they were cut.
- I've also considered playing Elder Deep-Fiend and Drowner of Hope and in fact, a couple years ago when this deck was Esper, I did. I consider them now just a little too slow to play.
Non-Creatures
- Relics and Claws offer both maindeck graveyard hate as well as fuel for my processors.
- Delay offers more fuel and when combined with a processor is effectively a better version of counterspell.
- Warping Wail aka Eldrazi Charm offers three great options that are rarely dead.
- The ratchet bomb maindeck is to help fight aggro decks. It is something I'm toying with but I'm not sold on that slot yet. More matches are needed.
Sideboard
- Ashiok is backbreaking against UW Control. Between them and Dimensional Infiltrator you can control the top of their deck better than they can, even if they have Jace on the board.
- Essence Depleter is for burn and other aggro matchups. Since the life gain is 1 at a time it can get around skullcrack effects as long as you let each instance of the activation resolve before activating it again.
- Ceremonious Rejection for Tron and other artifact decks
- Leyline if I need more graveyard hate.
- Dispel and Disdainful Stroke are for the matchups where more counterspells are needed
- Cast Down, All is Dust, Damnation, Ratchet Bomb, and Flaying Tendrils are the removal suite. Five different cards for a variety of decks out there.
Matchups
Control - UW, Jeskai, Blue Moon, Esper, 8-Rack (7-2-1 in matches, 16-9-2 in games)
I believe that this matchup(s) are favorable. As mentioned above, Dimensional Infiltrator and Blight Herder, with Ashiok out of the side, are your best cards. Blight Herder is a cast trigger so you will always get the three guys even if they counter the spell. And those three guys have won me games. Also, with Ashiok and Dimensional Infiltrator milling your opponent out of the game is not unheard of.
Aggro - Phoenix decks, Burn, Goblins, Zoo (6-3 in matches, 13-8 in games)
These are rough matchups. Essence Depleter is your best card hands down. Against those that require the graveyard relic and claws can also do work. Against burn specifically, being able to use Wasteland strangler to process a rift bolt to kill a creature is one of the best plays you can make.
Midrange - Jund, Bant, Mardu Pyromancer, Death's Shadow (3-1-1 in matches, 7-4-1 in games)
I believe that these matchups are favorable. Shutting down their graveyard can keep these games under control.
Combo - Storm, Saheeli Rai (1-2 in matches, 2-4 in games)
Being able to shut down the graveyard is great against storm. Delay become amazing here as well since the card you counter doesn't go to the graveyard. Saheeli Rai is a different story. That is a rough matchup.
Tron (6-0 in matches, 12-3 in games)
I believe that this is a favorable matchup, just not as favorable as my results would lead you to believe. The game plan is to disrupt while deploying threats. Warping Wail and Delay are great here. Warping Wail can counter their Sylvan Scryings or Ancient Stirrings when they are digging for tron. Delay can take care of the big threats. I rarely will tap out unless I know they cannot get tron on their next turn.
Dredge and Bridgevine (2-3 in matches, 6-8 in games)
Just like above, I do not think my results are indicative of the matchup. I think that it is even. Clearly relic and leyline are your best friends.
Humans, Spirits, Merfolk (4-4 in matches, 10-11 in games)
This is also a rough matchup. Being able to go wide and tall all while using Aether Vial is something that is hard to deal with. It is for these matchups primarily that I added Ratchet Bomb to the maindeck.
Hollowed One (1-2 in matches, 3-4 in games)
I think this matchup is unfavorable. However, it all comes down to whether they can land early Hollowed Ones. If they don't the you have a shot. Otherwise you are on the back foot from the get go and that is not how you want to play a game.
Everything else - Either I played against the deck one time in the past few months so I don't know if I can talk about how the matchup feels or it is an FNM deck that does not need to be discussed here.
I really like Nephalia Drownyard as my mill land of choice so that is why I am running it over the 4th Field of Ruin. Psychic Strike is proving its worth against control decks. Since there is a decent amount of control in my meta (and they have shifted to running Leyline of Sanctity in response to my deck) I like the split in the sideboard on the bounce spells. Echoing Truth also helps clean up Lingering Soul tokens and the like from Pyromancer as well. I tried Set Adfrit for a while but it never worked as well as I would have liked so I switched to Winds of Rebuke and Echoing Truth. I am also thinking of giving Rite of Undoing a try. Eventually, once I get another Orb and Bridge they will also go into the deck but for now I play what I have.
BGx Rock (Jund and BG) 3-2
Jeskai Delver 1-0
Tron (RG, Mono-G, and Eldrazi) 3-0
Burn 0-1
Mardu Pyromancer 0-2
Grixis Shadow 0-1
Aggro decks (5C Domain Zoo, 8 Whack, Mono-W Humans) 0-3
Control decks (Jeskai and UW) 3-3
Random Combo (Waste Not Storm, Restore Balance, Alter of Blood) 1-2
UR Kiki Combo 0-1
Affinity 2-0
Artifact Combo (KCI and Tezzerator) 2-0
Living End (As Foretold) 0-1
Eldrazi and Taxes 1-0
Soul Sisters 1-0
KCI is as easy of a match up as Soot said. I extracted Scrap Trawler and my opponent just conceded on the spot. Tron is also a ridiculously easy match up. Extract a tron land and win. If you can't do this before tron is online you are going to have it rough, but that plan is successful most of the time.
I used to think Affinity was an impossible match up but now I'm thinking it is completely dependent on their opener. If they do not have the nuts then it is in our favor. In the control match ups I went 3-0 and then 0-3. As I said above, they shifted to siding in Leyline and also started playing Geist of Saint Traft. That's why I've started running Devour Flesh and Far // Away. By far the hardest things for me to deal with are large cheap threats like Tasigur, Angler, and Bedlam Reveler and, as you can see from my match ups, I'm 0-3 against those decks. Anyway, I figured I would add my $.02 to the conversation.
bobthefunny: Thanks for everything that you did for this year's exchange
grant1, Mohawkdan2.0, Elemental, Stoogeslap: Thank you for the sweet cards. My EDH decks are appriciative.
Would love to thank the person who did the awesome Vineshaper Mystic but there's no signature. Card definitely made me do a double take though, with what I thought was a subtle alter.
If you want a wrath effect consider Hour of Reckoning. A natural curve of BB into spirits (souls or SP or midnight haunting) allows us to cast it turn 4 like all other wraths. You can also get cute and flashback souls and still cast Hour on turn 4.
After playing tonight at FNM against 3 control decks (Esper Tap-out Control, Skred Red, and Lantern Control) I am sold on a couple Hidden Stockpiles in the sideboard for grindy matchups. The card exceeded expectations, often generating multiple servos over the course of the game and, more importantly, giving the deck a decent amount of card selection, something that the deck sorely lacks. I played them mainboard tonight just to test and see what I liked about it however I don't see it as mainboard material. I will be playing two in the sideboard come the SCG Open in Feburary.
I have and I enjoy having the removal. I've played too few games to give much more than anecdotal evidence, but in my estimation 4 is the right number. I've been also messing around with a couple Hidden Stockpiles and I love them. Making a guy is the less interesting side of the card. I love being able to sac chump blockers to scry. Makes the card deceptively powerful.
As a BW Tokens player I will echo the sentiment that the Merfolk match up is bad. Playing a wrath is the only way I have pulled off wins against the deck.
I noticed stew and you both mentioned running out of threats so maybe kessig isn't even the way we want to be leveraging more wins but to have higher threat density in the side again (thragtusk queen baloth) and/or batterskull if you're playing it. Maybe mortuary mire is the land you're wanting as someone else mentioned.
I look forward to the results of the Kessig/Sunhome testing. I will contribute what I can, however my Magic playing is limited to FNM so I will not have as much data as I would like.
While I understand that there are very few flex spots in the deck, I have somewhat maxed them out when it comes to more threats. In the MB I currently run the Titans, Thragtusk, and a Steel Hellkite. The last two are definitely meta choices, since Burn and Blood Moons are all over my LGS. The repeatable EE effect could be handy and while it wasn't relevant last Friday I can definitely see a situation where it would be. In the SB, I am running a Queen, Ruric Thar, and a Sagu Mauler however since it appears that Jund, Grixis, and other interactive decks are favorable I might drop the Mauler. He was only in there for those removal heavy matchups.
Sunhome does 2 things well. First, and this is the most important - it kills your opponent when you have 2 amulets. Kessig cant.
Secondly - and this only comes up in certain match-ups, but it allows you to outclass creatures in combat. As an example, temur battle rage is pretty good vs us, but if you can doublestrike your own guy, you can get out of trouble. The same is true if facing an 8/8 deaths shadow as another example.
Kessig does something completely different - it gives you a late game. It's pretty rubbish in the first 4-5 turns, but turns 8+ its amazing.
Although I'm a big fan of kessig, and always have been - i'm leaning towards sunhome more and more. I don't believe that sunhome is definitely correct, but actually the fast match-ups matter more than the slow ones (we're not great vs affinity/infect, but we're pretty good vs jund etc). As a result, sunhome seems to help our bad match-ups more.
All this makes sense. Reason why I asked is that last FNM I finally took this deck for a spin (I've been my play group's Titan pilot since well before Summer Bloom was banned) and I found myself in a couple games where I was double striking a plant token because I could not stick threat. Seemed less than ideal at the time.
So Jund is a decent matchup, but what about more controlling decks like Lantern, or Jeskai Nahiri, or Grixis Control? Are these matchups still favorable or are we on the combo or bust plan?
Also, for those of you who have been piloting this deck for a while now, roughly how often does the turn 2 kill actually happen?
Also, has anyone dealt with Liliana, the Last Hope yet? What sideboard options can I run against her?
The only time I have run into her my only solution was to kill her with combat damage. She is annoying but easily controlled, especially if you have an anthem.
Now, the deck.
4 Dimensional Infiltrator
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Ulamog's Nullifier
3 Blight Herder
Instants
4 Delay
4 Fatal Push
4 Warping Wail
Artifact
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Ratchet Bomb
Lands
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Watery Grave
1 Sunken Ruins
4 Underground River
1 Ipnu Rivulet
1 Ifnir Deadlands
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Mutavault
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
1 Dispel
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 All is Dust
1 Damnation
1 Cast Down
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Essence Depleter
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Flaying Tendrils
2 Leyline of the Void
As you can see, I've gone the route of processors. They influenced a number of my card choices.
Creatures
- Dimensional Infiltrator is an amazing card. Given that all my turn two plays are instant speed I don't have to decide whether to play a creature or hold up remove or a counter. It can also help fuel processors with its ability, mess with the top of a UW Control player's deck when they have Jace, and sometimes you even get lucky and are able to bounce the creature out of harms way.
- If I'm in UB then it seems silly not to play Nullifier. Being a counterspell stapled to a creature has its advantages (i.e. gets around negate and dispel) and combined with Cavern of Souls you will always win counter wars.
- Blight Herder is backbreaking against most decks. Seven power split across 4 guys gives many decks headaches. Up until a couple weeks ago I played 4 maindeck. I cut one for the Ratchet Bomb but I could see myself going back up to four if this experiment doesn't work out.
- Reality Smasher is notably absent from my list. I used to have Smasher in the deck, 2 main and 1 side, but I always found myself not playing them to hold up coutnermagic. They require a more proactive game plan, one that I was not playing so they were cut.
- I've also considered playing Elder Deep-Fiend and Drowner of Hope and in fact, a couple years ago when this deck was Esper, I did. I consider them now just a little too slow to play.
Non-Creatures
- Relics and Claws offer both maindeck graveyard hate as well as fuel for my processors.
- Delay offers more fuel and when combined with a processor is effectively a better version of counterspell.
- Warping Wail aka Eldrazi Charm offers three great options that are rarely dead.
- The ratchet bomb maindeck is to help fight aggro decks. It is something I'm toying with but I'm not sold on that slot yet. More matches are needed.
Sideboard
- Ashiok is backbreaking against UW Control. Between them and Dimensional Infiltrator you can control the top of their deck better than they can, even if they have Jace on the board.
- Essence Depleter is for burn and other aggro matchups. Since the life gain is 1 at a time it can get around skullcrack effects as long as you let each instance of the activation resolve before activating it again.
- Ceremonious Rejection for Tron and other artifact decks
- Leyline if I need more graveyard hate.
- Dispel and Disdainful Stroke are for the matchups where more counterspells are needed
- Cast Down, All is Dust, Damnation, Ratchet Bomb, and Flaying Tendrils are the removal suite. Five different cards for a variety of decks out there.
Matchups
Control - UW, Jeskai, Blue Moon, Esper, 8-Rack (7-2-1 in matches, 16-9-2 in games)
I believe that this matchup(s) are favorable. As mentioned above, Dimensional Infiltrator and Blight Herder, with Ashiok out of the side, are your best cards. Blight Herder is a cast trigger so you will always get the three guys even if they counter the spell. And those three guys have won me games. Also, with Ashiok and Dimensional Infiltrator milling your opponent out of the game is not unheard of.
Aggro - Phoenix decks, Burn, Goblins, Zoo (6-3 in matches, 13-8 in games)
These are rough matchups. Essence Depleter is your best card hands down. Against those that require the graveyard relic and claws can also do work. Against burn specifically, being able to use Wasteland strangler to process a rift bolt to kill a creature is one of the best plays you can make.
Midrange - Jund, Bant, Mardu Pyromancer, Death's Shadow (3-1-1 in matches, 7-4-1 in games)
I believe that these matchups are favorable. Shutting down their graveyard can keep these games under control.
Combo - Storm, Saheeli Rai (1-2 in matches, 2-4 in games)
Being able to shut down the graveyard is great against storm. Delay become amazing here as well since the card you counter doesn't go to the graveyard. Saheeli Rai is a different story. That is a rough matchup.
Tron (6-0 in matches, 12-3 in games)
I believe that this is a favorable matchup, just not as favorable as my results would lead you to believe. The game plan is to disrupt while deploying threats. Warping Wail and Delay are great here. Warping Wail can counter their Sylvan Scryings or Ancient Stirrings when they are digging for tron. Delay can take care of the big threats. I rarely will tap out unless I know they cannot get tron on their next turn.
Dredge and Bridgevine (2-3 in matches, 6-8 in games)
Just like above, I do not think my results are indicative of the matchup. I think that it is even. Clearly relic and leyline are your best friends.
Humans, Spirits, Merfolk (4-4 in matches, 10-11 in games)
This is also a rough matchup. Being able to go wide and tall all while using Aether Vial is something that is hard to deal with. It is for these matchups primarily that I added Ratchet Bomb to the maindeck.
Hollowed One (1-2 in matches, 3-4 in games)
I think this matchup is unfavorable. However, it all comes down to whether they can land early Hollowed Ones. If they don't the you have a shot. Otherwise you are on the back foot from the get go and that is not how you want to play a game.
Everything else - Either I played against the deck one time in the past few months so I don't know if I can talk about how the matchup feels or it is an FNM deck that does not need to be discussed here.
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Shelldock Isle
3 Island
2 Swamp
3 Field of Ruin
1 Nephalia Drownyard
Creatures
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Hedron Crab
3 Mesmeric Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
Instants
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Archive Trap
2 Crypt Incursion
3 Fatal Push
3 Surgical Extraction
Sorcery
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
3 Breaking // Entering
3 Mind Funeral
1 Collective Brutality
3 Ravenous Trap
2 Psychic Strike
1 Far // Away
2 Devour Flesh
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Winds of Rebuke
2 Echoing Truth
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Damnation
I really like Nephalia Drownyard as my mill land of choice so that is why I am running it over the 4th Field of Ruin. Psychic Strike is proving its worth against control decks. Since there is a decent amount of control in my meta (and they have shifted to running Leyline of Sanctity in response to my deck) I like the split in the sideboard on the bounce spells. Echoing Truth also helps clean up Lingering Soul tokens and the like from Pyromancer as well. I tried Set Adfrit for a while but it never worked as well as I would have liked so I switched to Winds of Rebuke and Echoing Truth. I am also thinking of giving Rite of Undoing a try. Eventually, once I get another Orb and Bridge they will also go into the deck but for now I play what I have.
A couple changes I am thinking of. Dropping the third Island for an Ipnu Rivulet, dropping one Mind Funeral for a second Collective Brutality. I think the 3rd Ravenous Trap in the sideboard could be something else, maybe a Darkness.
Matchups:
BGx Rock (Jund and BG) 3-2
Jeskai Delver 1-0
Tron (RG, Mono-G, and Eldrazi) 3-0
Burn 0-1
Mardu Pyromancer 0-2
Grixis Shadow 0-1
Aggro decks (5C Domain Zoo, 8 Whack, Mono-W Humans) 0-3
Control decks (Jeskai and UW) 3-3
Random Combo (Waste Not Storm, Restore Balance, Alter of Blood) 1-2
UR Kiki Combo 0-1
Affinity 2-0
Artifact Combo (KCI and Tezzerator) 2-0
Living End (As Foretold) 0-1
Eldrazi and Taxes 1-0
Soul Sisters 1-0
KCI is as easy of a match up as Soot said. I extracted Scrap Trawler and my opponent just conceded on the spot. Tron is also a ridiculously easy match up. Extract a tron land and win. If you can't do this before tron is online you are going to have it rough, but that plan is successful most of the time.
I used to think Affinity was an impossible match up but now I'm thinking it is completely dependent on their opener. If they do not have the nuts then it is in our favor. In the control match ups I went 3-0 and then 0-3. As I said above, they shifted to siding in Leyline and also started playing Geist of Saint Traft. That's why I've started running Devour Flesh and Far // Away. By far the hardest things for me to deal with are large cheap threats like Tasigur, Angler, and Bedlam Reveler and, as you can see from my match ups, I'm 0-3 against those decks. Anyway, I figured I would add my $.02 to the conversation.
grant1, Mohawkdan2.0, Elemental, Stoogeslap: Thank you for the sweet cards. My EDH decks are appriciative.
Would love to thank the person who did the awesome Vineshaper Mystic but there's no signature. Card definitely made me do a double take though, with what I thought was a subtle alter.
While I understand that there are very few flex spots in the deck, I have somewhat maxed them out when it comes to more threats. In the MB I currently run the Titans, Thragtusk, and a Steel Hellkite. The last two are definitely meta choices, since Burn and Blood Moons are all over my LGS. The repeatable EE effect could be handy and while it wasn't relevant last Friday I can definitely see a situation where it would be. In the SB, I am running a Queen, Ruric Thar, and a Sagu Mauler however since it appears that Jund, Grixis, and other interactive decks are favorable I might drop the Mauler. He was only in there for those removal heavy matchups.
So Jund is a decent matchup, but what about more controlling decks like Lantern, or Jeskai Nahiri, or Grixis Control? Are these matchups still favorable or are we on the combo or bust plan?
Also, for those of you who have been piloting this deck for a while now, roughly how often does the turn 2 kill actually happen?