Quote from TechnicolorMage »Is it worth playing any copies of other utility black lands?
Quote from TechnicolorMage »
Does this mean Viscera seer is now superfluous and should be removed?
Quote from TechnicolorMage »Is it worth playing ANY copies of Witch's Cottage in order to have more options of recurring 'X' creature or is it not worth it?
Quote from TechnicolorMage »Are we diluting the deck by putting so many different cards in it, as in lowering consistency?
Quote from TechnicolorMage »I wonder if a couple copies of toxic deluge is a better idea?
Quote from TechnicolorMage »Woe Strider feels "so-so" to me. I have read the card multiple times, what am I missing here?
Quote from Kain123 »
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creature (18)1 Voice of Many1 Tectonic Giant1 Tahngarth, First Mate1 Clackbridge Troll1 Broodbirth Viper1 Banshee of the Dread ChoirArtifact (5)1 Relic of Progenitus1 God-Pharaoh's StatueEnchantment (13)1 Carpet of Flowers1 Curse of Opulence1 Blind Obedience1 Duelist's Heritage1 Curse of Disturbance1 Predatory AdvantageInstant/Sorcery (30)1 Redirect1 Virtus's Maneuver1 Fiery Justice1 Blood Tithe1 Decimate1 Domineering Will1 Zndrsplt's Judgment1 Windgrace's Judgment1 Allure of the Unknown1 Syphon FleshPlaneswalker (1)1 Dovin, Hand of Control
Quote from Uukii »
Quote from Kain123 »Some of the cards in my list will surely perform worse than what I expect, I will probably replace several with lands.
Quote from Oktayne the Red »I know this conversation is a couple months old, but I was wondering if I could ask when each of you started playing the game? Like what was the current set when you started?
Quote from bleedin_eyeball »
Thassa, Deep-Dwelling I like. It's no Deadeye Navigator, but it's durable & 4cmc.
I think I'm gonna try a build with Act of Treason-style cards to keep their stuff.
Quote from bleedin_eyeball »
Nightmare Shepherd + Sac outlet looks great, but don't think we *need* it for Gary. Gary don't need help Cool card.
Quote from bleedin_eyeball »
Shadowspear looks killer, seems under-costed to me.
Quote from EpicLevelCommoner »Thoughts on Crumble to Dust and Horribly Awry? Both seem powerful tools in their own right, with Crumble hitting Tron and perhaps even 12-post hard, while Awry deals with quite a few cards within Legacy and Modern.
Quote from Giblets
The land just isn't for me...
Quote from GibletsOh yeah it's all about the Vigilance on this one, the card is basically going to be on autopilot all game. I love all the white army in a can cards but this might be my favorite thus far.
Quote from Giblets
In regards to land removal; which is where overpowered lands can fail you...I used to be able to play Glacial Chasm with no fear, now I commonly have to be concerned about Acidic Slime, Sylvan Primordial, and Terastodon. My playgroup might not be investing in the greatest land bases of all time but they are definitely spending a lot of effort into removing them from others.
I've kind of derailed; take this all as just an anecdote from one meta in particular. I completely agree with you that adding 2-4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx into most multiplayer decks is going to be a drastic upgrade every time, even in my meta. This land is the real deal; use it with enchantment decks, use it with Lurking Predators decks, use it with fish, use it with elves, use it with monstrous creatures, and definitely use it with Extort, Pestilence, and Gray Merchant decks.
Quote from GibletsI reread Brimaz, King of Oreskos three times... kept looking at the power/toughness and the abilities then back to the mana cost with a stupid look on my face...what the hell is this? At least it's Legendary I suppose...RIP Blade Splicer; your services are no longer required.
Quote from GibletsTruth.
Quote from GibletsThat's true, Rhystic Study doesn't always work but it's pretty hard to pay to stop it when there's Ghostly Prison and Pendrell Mists on the table; which I typically see in these decks. Ephara, God of Polis wouldn't be my choice but I see what you're saying. I'll check back later when there are more cards spoiled.
Quote from Miaou
I don't like that discard takes away the potential blowouts of Magic.
Quote from Giblets
I don't know about Ephara, God of Polis, taxing UW enchantment decks are probably going to be running Rhystic Study over this? I don't see the point.
Quote from The EvisceratorUndying Evil is probably my favorite black instant, it works really well in decks with large creatures, especially ones with trample and good abilities such as Gleancrawler.
Quote from IndalecioI guess I´m attributing the success of this deck to the systematic removal of options from all opponents
Quote from IndalecioPrison is there to maintain protection until the damage spells have completed their job.
Quote from IndalecioThe prison lock is what makes the deck obnoxious, I agree with you, but Discard brings it to another level of obnoxiousness. Let's say the conjunction of the two is what makes it so damn effective. Opponents just don't have cards to withstand it.
Quote from IndalecioWe do talk too, but I still haven't found a way to handle the talk in a fair manner, since announcing what people should be doing often has a negative effect for all players. The more subtle way is to explain what these permanents are doing in conjunction with others that haven't been played yet but we know are coming at some point. But that's not working well either. I tend to prefer to be silent but it's hard in the heat of the situation as people watch each other in search for answers "are we in danger now you think?" kind of look. "he looks a bit nervous, but I don't see why". I think ultimately the thing that bothers me to nuts is how conservative people play their deck.
Quote from IndalecioYou should stick to what you deck can do, but is this just goldfishing we´re talking about? People seem to read cards only when they get attacked by said card or wait for that triggered effect to occur to ask for what it does? I mean come on, are people living in a bubble? I agree these 6-8 Commander games are a bit of a hassle to handle since there are so many cards on the table and you cannot possibly check everything, but normally you should be able to recognize a big ****ing monster card from a small utility dude. Just wondering.
Quote from IndalecioSo yeah typically, every time Discard deck sees play, people's brains are reset to factory settings in terms of knowledge of what it does. Oh, Noetic Scales. Shame that I sat with my 2 4/4s doing nothing for the last 2 turns.
Quote from IndalecioI don't have a problem with being vulnerable if I sit confortably at 20 life More seriously, it's all about what you´re playing or what you intend to play in the short term. I can lower my shields because that's what's required to play something really valuable for me at time T or T+1. But sitting at 10 life is not the same thing. Nova Chaser is a 10/2 and he has many friends. I´ve lost countless amount of games because I thought I was smart opening up a little bit while my opponents just saw an opportunity to storm my board and kill me. If people in your meta just sit, cast spells, some of them attack next turn, then fine. If people play with Haste effects and big creatures, some of which cheated into play and we´re not talking late game, then there are limits to how much risk you can take.
Quote from IndalecioHaha alright, well mate I´ll take your Grim Tutor then Seriously though, nobody's arguing you´ve got the best brew of this deck and the person I know with most experience of it, but don't automatically assume all Magic players live by your guide. Mind you, I do relay some of this information to my playgroup because it makes our games a better experience. But the person playing this deck in our group has never been on mtgs. His version of the deck is not optimized compared to yours but he's got brains enough to know what makes it effective. Me personally I don't know if I knew about Bottomless Pits before getting on mtgs. My deck did not have it and I haven't felt the need or the drive to update it with your suggestions, mainly because...well... I don't want to play such deck lol. My "prison/combo/playing with myself for 10 mins" phase has been over a few years ago
Quote from IndalecioWhat you describe is near 100% of my games. I find it a bleak consolation to get killed first knowing I was doing the right thing because the rest of table ignored the threat (going down as well due to it) and took my reaction as if I was the threat instead due to an agressive play I made. It's fascinating to watch players ponder about these things. I guess we find these things logical but to them it's just too much information, I guess.
Quote from Indalecio »You seem to imply that discard strategies could be completely ignored and it would still work, because of their ineffectiveness.
Quote from Indalecio »In conjunction with damage AND prison I just don't think Discard is any "underwhelming" strategy, like at all. It always results on either the discard player getting killed, or the rest of the table getting killed. If people need to set their own plan and strategy aside for the common cause of killing one specific player from turn 1 then it has to be because said player is playing obnoxiously.
Quote from Indalecio »And I mean, this is not an interactive deck we are talking about. Really, can you ever compete with it if you lack artifact/enchantment removal?
Quote from Indalecio »I'm sure you always have 4 Disks in all of your decks...
Quote from Indalecio »Pressure is the only way, but this is where you always find people doing some other business (ignoring their incoming doom basically), and with that in mind you can't go full-out anymore because said players would attack you as well.
Quote from Indalecio »If everybody could turn their creatures sideways and kill off the discard player before he drops the prison cards then it would be easy, but in MP games I´ve experienced, people are either too slow to react or blind to recognize a threat before it's too late.
Quote from Indalecio »Why should I step up and turn all my creatures sideways against this player if all I´ll get back is attacks from other players?
Quote from Indalecio »I need a couple of blockers to secure that, but then it gives more time to the discard player to put his strategy online.
Quote from Indalecio »Bloodchief Ascension, Ankh to trigger it, even Megrim/Caress in conjunction with Anvil of Bogardan, supported by Ensnaring Bridge and sorceries cleaning the board... How can it matter that you can still play your topdeck card assuming no land, when you take X damage each upkeep anyway because of diverse Racks on the board?
Quote from Indalecio »... alongside with Bottomless Pit and co. it just becomes a clock. Noetic Scales my friend.
Quote from Indalecio »Of course, your fate is not sealed by turn 2 but you can get there quite quickly.
Quote from Indalecio »Difference between that and a Grave Pact deck?
Quote from Indalecio »About the discard lands discussion, I don't understand why it wouldn't occur.
Quote from Indalecio »I would still refer discard as one of the top nemesis of creature-based decks...