I was comparing it to other Invitational cards, I guess. Dark Confidant, Shadowmage Infiltrator, Avalanche Riders, Meddling Mage and Rootwater Thief were all fairly powerful. I even loved Solemn Simulacrum and Rakdos Augermage. This just seems underpowered compared to those cards.
How could they neuter Ranger of Eos so bad? It should have been with a total converted mana cost of two. That way you could use it as a toolbox. Get a Vexing Shusher, Gaddock Teeg, two Figure of Destiny, etc. The way it it, it sucks in Standard. The only things you'd ever want it to fetch in Standard is maybe Fanatic and Figure...
To the other guy who posted before you, how often do you think LOTU will stick around for more than one turn to give you card advantage? you will be lucky to get more than 1 card from the graveyard with LOTU, i would personally consider cutting LOTU and throwing in some more 2 drops ( distress etc) and more viscera dagger and 2 lark. Something along those lines, lark will allow this deck to really come back late game and turn it around by drawing stillmoon+death baron.
1 drop (8)
4 festering goblin
4 thoughtseize
2 drop (12+halo maybe?)
4 tidehollow sculler
4 nameless inversion
4 distress
2 runed halo 2 get rid of firespout?
3 drop (13)
4 stillmoon
4 death baron
2 Oblivion Ring
3 crib swap
4 drop (3)
3 Viscera dagger+LOTU or graveborn muse+Oring?
3 CC
5 drop (2+profane)
2 Reviellark
thats 40 cards, so remove 4, and you will end up with a more useable deck imo. But im rather funny about decks being consistant and reliable rather than running on chance
Test it...........please. I have won many, many games off the back of LotU. If one dies, I play another one. Then return the first one. They are incredibly strong, its worth focusing on keeping them in play.
The Muse is always good. I played a Suicide Zombie deck back when Muse was in Standard the first time, with Bidding and everything. Muse is like Necropotence but you draw at the beginning of your turn. You can add or subtract zombies as you wish, letting you get what you need. When I feel like she's too much of a liability I just kill her off.
The real star of this deck, asides from the almost-too-good Stillmoon Cavalier, is Viscera Dragger. Cycling + Unearth is a great combination, but better yet is the ability to use him as a one-shot Ichorid. With a lord or two out, there are disgusting. Lord of the Undead also turns Viscera Dragger into a card drawing engine. This deck is powerful and my testing has proved it to me. I've beaten so many different decks on MWS with it, including QnT, Faeries, Lark...a bunch of different decks. I realize sometimes my opponents just grab a net deck and hope they can pilot it correctly, but I either pilot this deck AMAZINGLY well, or there's some power worked into the list, as well.
I still haven't lost a game on MWS with the most recent build I posted. Not seeing how your untested bias is really panning out for ya. Test it before you knock it.
Ever heard of incinerate? shock? nameless inversion? If someone kills your slow, easy to kill lord of the dead, you are left with nothing. Unlimited resources? Like you can depend on LoTU sticking on the board that long. You really think the deck you're talking about can beat a toast deck running firespout and the Oona's grace/river kelpie CA engine?
Dregscape zombie isn't the best card, but I like it a hell of a lot more than withered wretch. Unearth is amazing when you get multiple dregscapes. Being able to play a lord after a wrath and swing for 6 with 2 dregscapes is amazing. Mutavault serves much the same purpose.
As far as killing your own dregscape with festering goblin, lol? Just don't set yourself up for that. It's a very specific situation that will rarely come up. As long as you have 1 creature with 2 toughness or your opponent has any creature, it doesn’t matter.
Edit-
You’re comparing Krovikan Scoundrel to dregscape zombie? Dregscape zombie has a good ability and a relevant creature type. That’s like comparing grizzly bears to knight of meadowgrain.
Actually, this is pretty amazing...Lord of the Undead can return another copy of Lord of the Undead! I've won many, many games on MWS by chaining Lords all day long.
Fair enough. 4x Mutavault may be too much. Does anyone else think that Festering Goblin may all too often set us up for a 2-for-1? I am thinking about running Dredgescape Zombie in my build and I would hate for my opponent to have some burn/removal for it, without a creature of their own in play, forcing me to target my own Dredgescape.:-/
That's exactly why I don't play it. I would rather not help my opponent kill my creatures.
I guess we’re moving the party here, so here I go.
Let’s get something out of the way. 4x tidehollow sculler and 4x dregscape zombie are auto-includes. 8 2-drops isn’t even really enough for an agro deck, but this is what we’ve got. Those decks I have seen that don’t run both end up with a huge number of 3 drops. This is relevant not just because you won’t play anything tell turn 3, but because you won’t be able to play 2 things until turn 6. I’m being sort of direct here because I consider this none-debatable. Curve is important and a deck without these cards doesn’t even have a curve.
Lands and chameleon colossus are debatable, but I feel that mutavault is essential to the performance of the deck, and since we have established that we must run tidehollow, that means we are already b/w, so adding g is a stretch. If a mana base could be made to easily accommodate CC, then that would be great, but I don’t see that happening without sacrificing too much in consistency and card quality.
I don’t like unmake, oblivion ring, or crib swap. 3cc removal in aggro is really bad. If you want, you can run 3 of either oblivion ring or crib swap to protect against colossus, but any more and your already crowded 3cc slot gets way too full.
Graveborn muse is just bad. Paying 4 mana for something that has no immediate effect, has a shrimpy body, loses life, and dies to every piece of removal in standard, bar terror effects, is not what we want. It also unnecessarily raises the curve. Viscera dragger is better, but the jury is still out as far as its quality as far as I’m concerned.
Here’s my list from the other thread. I’m still working on it, but the basics are there.
You don't see sub-par creatures like Dregscape Zombie in these lists, because Zombies in Standard really isn't set up to be an efficient aggro deck without forcing yourself into it. Zombies is setup perfectly to be a Mid-Range Aggro Control deck. MRAC fits LotU better, as an ability like that is slow and clunky in aggro anyway. What you will notice in these decklists, is that Lord of the Undead along with Viscera Dragger, Nameless Inversion and Crib Swap can create an unlimited train of card advantage.
Though most other creature-based decks in Standard are going to be faster, they have limited resources. With a LotU in play, we have unlimited. Dregscape Zombie? Did anyone...ANYONE...on the whole planet...play Krovikan Scoundrel? Hell no! That card is terrible. I'm sorry, but the only way I would play that card ON PURPOSE, is with Nantuko Husk and Grave Pact. I'm being sort-of direct here because I know Dregscape Zombie sucks.
The only reason I refuse to include Mutavault in these lists is that sometimes it makes it harder to get WW and BB and with SC colored mana is better. Plus Mutavault increase the chances I'll start with an unusable Fetid Heath. Mutavault + Heath or double Heath in opening hand can be bad :S.
- needs moar chameleon colossus; best zombie/skeleton ever printed
- viscera dragger is better than muse
- wtf is 'tidehollow sculler'? learn to spell the cards, please
Um....
-splashing Green into this deck is a waste
-agreed
-Tidehollow Sculler is how it's spelled.
Tidehollow Sculler
:symw::symb: Artifact Creature - ZombieWhen Tidehollow Sculler comes into play, target opponent reveals his or her hand and you choose a nonland card from it. Remove that card from the game.
When Tidehollow Sculler leaves play, return the removed card to its owner's hand.
This is a deck I built just to have fun with Tezzeret on MWS. Somehow, it keeps winning. I just thought, I'd post it so others could take a look at it and maybe use it as a starting point for a powerful Tezzeret deck. The Fountain of Youth is in the deck because it was the only semi/quasi/perhaps/maybe playable 0 drop artifact in post-rotation Standard and I wanted to test out the power of tutoring for 0 drops with Tezzeret. It's fun to get it and just watch my opponent's comments. Have fun!
I'm not so sure about that... Viscera Dragger has a couple of things going for it. For one, if you need an answer, this can dig for it. If the board is stalled out and you have a Lord of the Undead on the board...
It reads: 3B: Draw a card. Play this ability only once until your next turn. EoT I do it all the time.
Lastly, Viscera Dragger can mess with your opponents arithmetic, which as we all well know can win games. Have a LotU and a Death Baron or 2 in play? Have a few Viscera Dragger in the graveyard? That is a recipe for quick damage. I win so many games by having a lord in play, then paying to Unearth two or three Draggers and sneak in 4, 8 or even more damage. Pseudo-Ichorid, even if only 1-shot. It's a GREAT card. It's Phenomenal even! Do you know why Split Cards are so good? Versatility. Viscera Dragger, my friend, is VER-SA-TILE! It's a Hill Giant when you NEED it to be, and its a cantrip Hell's Thunder when you WANT it to be.
Another glaring problem: Do not cut black. I know Monoblack is fun and powerful, but the white is becoming a staple merely because it gives us option for sideboard. Auto-losing to a resolved Story Circle would make me vomit. Sometimes the disruption isn't enough. You Thoughtseize and see 2 Story Circle or 2 Bitterblossom. Do you scoop? Or do you have a backup plan? Crip Swap also gives us a recurrable way to kill CC.
Kithkin, Merfolk, Faeries, etc. are a bit faster; yes. That's why I have *** in the board, and in a few builds I've been testing Infest MD, as well. Either card is a great answer to aggro decks.
AutoWin: RDW 1WW
Enchantment
W: Tell the RDW Player: NO! and take 0
damage from them this turn.
Test it...........please. I have won many, many games off the back of LotU. If one dies, I play another one. Then return the first one. They are incredibly strong, its worth focusing on keeping them in play.
The Muse is always good. I played a Suicide Zombie deck back when Muse was in Standard the first time, with Bidding and everything. Muse is like Necropotence but you draw at the beginning of your turn. You can add or subtract zombies as you wish, letting you get what you need. When I feel like she's too much of a liability I just kill her off.
The real star of this deck, asides from the almost-too-good Stillmoon Cavalier, is Viscera Dragger. Cycling + Unearth is a great combination, but better yet is the ability to use him as a one-shot Ichorid. With a lord or two out, there are disgusting. Lord of the Undead also turns Viscera Dragger into a card drawing engine. This deck is powerful and my testing has proved it to me. I've beaten so many different decks on MWS with it, including QnT, Faeries, Lark...a bunch of different decks. I realize sometimes my opponents just grab a net deck and hope they can pilot it correctly, but I either pilot this deck AMAZINGLY well, or there's some power worked into the list, as well.
Actually, this is pretty amazing...Lord of the Undead can return another copy of Lord of the Undead! I've won many, many games on MWS by chaining Lords all day long.
That's exactly why I don't play it. I would rather not help my opponent kill my creatures.
You don't see sub-par creatures like Dregscape Zombie in these lists, because Zombies in Standard really isn't set up to be an efficient aggro deck without forcing yourself into it. Zombies is setup perfectly to be a Mid-Range Aggro Control deck. MRAC fits LotU better, as an ability like that is slow and clunky in aggro anyway. What you will notice in these decklists, is that Lord of the Undead along with Viscera Dragger, Nameless Inversion and Crib Swap can create an unlimited train of card advantage.
Though most other creature-based decks in Standard are going to be faster, they have limited resources. With a LotU in play, we have unlimited. Dregscape Zombie? Did anyone...ANYONE...on the whole planet...play Krovikan Scoundrel? Hell no! That card is terrible. I'm sorry, but the only way I would play that card ON PURPOSE, is with Nantuko Husk and Grave Pact. I'm being sort-of direct here because I know Dregscape Zombie sucks.
Um....
-splashing Green into this deck is a waste
-agreed
-Tidehollow Sculler is how it's spelled.
Tidehollow Sculler
:symw::symb: Artifact Creature - Zombie
When Tidehollow Sculler leaves play, return the removed card to its owner's hand.
2/2
01 Salvage Titan
Spells
04 Remove Soul
04 Dream Fracture
04 Esper Charm
04 Wrath of God
Other Permanents
04 Mind Stone
04 Trip Noose
04 Tezzeret the Seeker
02 Obelisk of Esper
01 Courier's Capsule
01 Fountain of Youth
01 Relic of Progenitus
01 Pithing Needle
01 Executioner's Capsule
01 Dispeller's Capsule
05 Island
04 Plains
04 Arcane Sanctum
03 Swamp
03 Sunken Ruins
02 Fetid Heath
02 Mystic Gate
04 Negate
04 Punish Ignorance
03 Dispeller's Capsule
02 Executioner's Capsule
02 Relic of Progenitus
This is a deck I built just to have fun with Tezzeret on MWS. Somehow, it keeps winning.
I'm not so sure about that... Viscera Dragger has a couple of things going for it. For one, if you need an answer, this can dig for it. If the board is stalled out and you have a Lord of the Undead on the board...
It reads: 3B: Draw a card. Play this ability only once until your next turn. EoT I do it all the time.
Lastly, Viscera Dragger can mess with your opponents arithmetic, which as we all well know can win games. Have a LotU and a Death Baron or 2 in play? Have a few Viscera Dragger in the graveyard? That is a recipe for quick damage. I win so many games by having a lord in play, then paying to Unearth two or three Draggers and sneak in 4, 8 or even more damage. Pseudo-Ichorid, even if only 1-shot. It's a GREAT card. It's Phenomenal even! Do you know why Split Cards are so good? Versatility. Viscera Dragger, my friend, is VER-SA-TILE! It's a Hill Giant when you NEED it to be, and its a cantrip Hell's Thunder when you WANT it to be.
Another glaring problem: Do not cut black. I know Monoblack is fun and powerful, but the white is becoming a staple merely because it gives us option for sideboard. Auto-losing to a resolved Story Circle would make me vomit. Sometimes the disruption isn't enough. You Thoughtseize and see 2 Story Circle or 2 Bitterblossom. Do you scoop? Or do you have a backup plan? Crip Swap also gives us a recurrable way to kill CC.