- Riley
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Jan 8, 2016Riley posted a message on Word of Command - The Rise of Duel CommanderThis is the format I play exclusively at this point. The sheer potential for creative deckbuilding AND having a shot at being competitive is staggeringly awesome. The Rules Committee has done a tremendous job over the years of balancing this format. Much love. <3Posted in: Articles
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Confirming outcome. GGs!
(SISAY SMASH)
Note to future self: save a separate version of my deck marked "tournament" in the name...
But yeah, my approach is always to pull from the massive Maybeboard I have for ideas from years of practicing with Sisay, so I've got lots of opinions about our Green overlap. But after that, I trust the experts: http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=521&meta=103&f=EDH <-- The four Meren decks that have made top 8 finishes at major tournaments worldwide.
The 3-star decklists are the best start, and here we Julien Debelleix's Meren which placed 3rd among 79 players with 3 Tasigur in the top 8 as well as 2 Narset, so that's a helluva promising finish for this new deck: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11029&d=262799&f=EDH
In general, what do you think you need more of? What are your weaknesses? Any particularly challenging matchups? What from this (and other) decklists might you have overlooked to help in those situations? For instance, Smothering Abomination is an interesting sac outlet that guarantees great value. Does Massacre Wurm make sense to add (in particular, are you anticipating a lot of weenie/elfball decks?)? For that matter, Minister of Pain looks particularly great for that. Phyrexian Delver looks pretty spicy for Meren in general. Kwiznek has made me love/fear Evolutionary Leap, so that one's definitely worth consideration. Diabolic Intent, ooh la la.
As for "I love these green cards and they've proven themselves over the years" options, if you're leaning more elfball: Arbor Elf, Birds of Paradise, Bloom Tender, Boreal Druid, Craterhoof Behemoth, Devoted Druid, Dryad Arbor, Elvish Mystic, Elvish Visionary, Eternal Witness, Fauna Shaman, Fierce Empath, Fyndhorn Elves, Joraga Treespeaker, Llanowar Elves, Lotus Cobra, Nissa, Vastwood Seer, Priest of Titania, Quirion Ranger, Reclamation Sage, Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Scavenging Oooze, Sylvan Ranger, Sylvan Safekeeper, Titania, Protector of Argoth, Voyaging Satyr, Wirewood Symbiote, Wood Elves, and Yisan, the Wander Bard. Good green stuff in general: Sylvan Library, Wild Growth, Chord of Calling, Crop Rotation, Worldly Tutor, Garruk Wildspeaker, Survival of the Fittest, Birthing Pod, and Green Sun's Zenith. Since we're both playing bicolor 4-CMC generals, I think we have a lot in common in terms of curve and mana needs. To that end, I recommend 38 lands with no more than 4-5 colorless lands to ensure castability of cards at any given time (I personally run Wasteland, Cavern of Souls, Yavimaya Hollow, and Hall of the Bandit Lord, but the latter two are kind of Sisay-specific).
There are a few things in my maybeboard that I love but I just don't have the space for/don't perfectly suit my gameplan, but maybe are good for you: Primeval Titan, Lignify, Ulvenwald Tracker, Life from the Loam, Nature's Claim, Sylvan Scrying, Nature's Lore, and Three Visits--admittedly almost entirely cut for not being aggro/combo enough, so it depends on your expected pace or if you're struggling with threat density.
All the above may already be super obvious stuff to you, but I hope I've helped at least a little!
MTGS username: Riley
Cockatrice username: TheGoldenBoy
Deck Hash: csejnj4g
Thank you so much for taking the initiative on this!
There's problem nothing I could come up with that you haven't already considered as an enchantment possibility, but just in case, I perused a filtered list of &color=+![B]+![U]&text=|[mana]|[basic]|[land]]White, Green, and Red enchantments that in some way interact with mana and found a few things I like:
- Awakening Zone: Ramps, chumps aggro creatures, gives another target for Pattern of Rebirth and Skullclamp without diluting the quality of Evolutionary Leap
- Carpet of Flowers: ...
- Font of Fertility: ...
Okay, I'm clearly grasping at straws! I believe you have all the playable/best enchantments already. I concur with your thoughts above, though, that adding the 2-mana rocks is worth a shot, though, to further address the mana hungriness. And leaning a little but more into the combo feel, I'd even suggest making space for the rocks by dropping Banishing Light and Oblivion Ring--gasp! I know! But I dropped them from Sisay and haven't looked back. Oh, uhhh, perhaps you'd actually do well with Cultivate and Kodama's Reach, given your "I can drop extra lands" enchantments which seem to be consistently showing up in games. For that matter, I think you're really missing out by not running Gaea's Cradle; I frequently see you in a position to get 3+ mana from it. Even if for a single turn, that could buy you the extra chance you need to go off a turn sooner.
The only other two cards in your deck I'm kind of "eh" about are Stony Silence and Aura of Silence. Through personal experience, they've disappointed me as draws more often than not.
But to focus on the positive, I went to a different game and 2-0'd a Narset. I'll admit a bit of luck on my part for having an early Teeg both games, but I'd still like to think I played it very smart. I even did get wrath'd one of those games and still got there (Dromoka is boss).
Welcome to the pool party!!!
This looks like a very solid list to me. I've seen some Mindslaver shenanigans on Cockatrice actually working—and I'm talking about in the past WEEK and not 4 years ago—so anything is possible. Hunting Grounds, wow! That's one of the very few cards I've never tested in the deck. I feel like it would work in a particularly counter/wrath-heavy meta, to be able to plop down one of your fatties for free at instant speed mid-late games could definitely make some comebacks happen. Can you tell us about your experience with the card? How to play to it? How about new Ulamog? I can't recall a game in recent memory where I reached that much mana (before either winning at 7 or 8 mana or.. losing).
I always imagine there's a lot more wrath effects and, in general, emphasis on removal on Cockatrice, because Saffi feels more important to me than ever as a kill-protection with a body that can save my MVPs. As for Crucible as a replacement and the synergy with Titania: I think it's rare to lose with Titania at all just with the current arsenal, but I'd still probably benefit from at least playtesting Crucible (I never really have). Recurring Wasteland is for sure an option that I love, at least.
Sadly, Garruk does not chain with Yisan. It's definitely awkward that my only 4-drop for Pod is Linvala, because I never want to send her to the yard, and something that adds value on ETB would make me feel better about the Yisan chain, too. I dunno, though, I've got a mental block about Restoration Angel's casting cost and imagining general scenarios where I'd have 4 mana open to use her optimally from my hand. I'm almost always tapped out or at most have 2 mana open, I think. I've not tested Primal Hunter enough to be sure of its place in Sisay, but it's fairly prevalent in competitive Elfball decks (18 top 8 decks in 2015 from http://mtgtop8.com/search2), AND my Sisay has a known drawing problem, so I'm still giving it a shot. In general, though, I'm finding Walkers pretty easy to keep in play in this build due to how many dudes I crap out.
More on Linvala: she's SO GOOD though. In an elfball mirror and plenty of other circumstances vs. creature-based combo decks, she wins outright. The flying part of her lockdown game has been important to bolt player's faces once per turn, too. I couldn't imagine dropping her. Village Bell-Ringer is interesting, but again, it's rare that I'm able to keep more than 2 mana open for any reason; so many builds on Cockatrice are racing so fast and you can't really spare the turn or two necessary to have extra mana open. You often just have to go for the gusto and hope your starting hand was slightly faster/better.
I loved Nykthos when I saw it, but in practice: my board gets wiped so damn fast on Cockatrice. Even when I least expect it (like, I'm playing against an aggro deck and wouldn't suspect to see wraths of any kind let alone several of them per game??) Unlike Cradle, it at least has the benefit of tapping for something when the board is clear, but I've really hit the maximum amount of colorless land cards that I can handle, especially with the Vancouver mulligan.
Bow is another one I've never tried, but my knee-jerk reaction is that it's assuming a long game that's rarely available in the Cockatrice meta and (on top of that) a mana sink where I've already got some kind of board advantage. But yes, wisely noted, it's awkward on the curve. I even took out Elixir for cryin' out loud!
I love Archdruid, but I'm not in love with her. Many moons ago, I took out all mana-based cards with 3 CMC that either a) have summoning sickness or b) are sorceries and haven't looked back. There's just much more opportunity for a control wizard to build up the lands and time necessary to do something obnoxious like Force Spike when we really want to play the mana cards when we're better off playing 2 drops on turns 2 or 3. I could be wrong! But also, I'm not committed enough to Elves to really feel the benefit of this; I've so many times had Wirewood Symbiote in play and not gotten a single elf all game long.
Taunting elf: to me, Norn is the answer; if you've got enough of an army that it's worth considering an alpha strike (more than likely, your opponent has allowed only your piddly 1/1s and a 2/2 or 2 to survive up until this point), then you're probably just able to cast Norn. At best, I could see getting one swing out of the situation with Taunting Elf, but only getting through like 3-5 damage. Doesn't seem worth cutting anything for.
Anywho, after another long hiatus, I'm back!!! Well, I'm mostly observing on Cockatrice, but what little bit of playing I've done lately has taught me a ton about.. stubbornness and how I should have listened to y'all about Elfball sooner. ;P
Here's the rundown:
December 2015: The Shell Game
After many many months of observing and obsessing over statistics of cards played in the most well-attended DC tournaments, I revisited the deck with a fresh perspective, no longer married to the niche cards I'd been championing for years. Per the wise advice of many Sisay players before me, the deck saw the biggest transformation ever in a single update, swapping nearly 2 dozen cards out to make room for the essential Elfball suite of cards. This meant more heavily embracing the green side of the deck, all but taking out all removal cards. Using a proven competitive shell while still leveraging what makes Sisay unique (mainly, easier access to Norn, Teeg, and Jitte), the deck's consistency and threat factor improved by a larger margin than ever before. All combos were removed, Planeswalkers were finally embraced, and the majority of enchantments and sorceries became creatures.
And the latest list:
1 Captain Sisay
Legends (11)
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Creatures (35)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Arbor Elf
1 Boreal Druid
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Mother of Runes
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Devoted Druid
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Bloom Tender
1 Priest of Titania
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Voyaging Satyr
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Fierce Empath
1 Wood Elves
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Karmic Guide
1 Sun Titan
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Skullclamp
1 Expedition Map
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Birthing Pod
Enchantments (3)
1 Wild Growth
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
Instants (5)
1 Crop Rotation
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Chord of Calling
Sorceries (1)
1 Green Sun's Zenith
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Legendary Lands (6)
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Pendlehaven
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
Lands (31)
5 Snow-Covered Forest
3 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Command Tower
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
1 Canopy Vista
1 Temple of Plenty
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Brushland
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Wasteland
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Cavern of Souls
More thoughts coming! Busy day, but wanted to at least share this much. I'm back, baby!
If y'all are ever playing in Manhattan (I'm in Brooklyn), let me know. These videos could use some Captain Sisay action! ;P
I've had Skullclamp in and out of the deck so much over the years, but I'm currently leaning towards "it's counterproductive to the decks strategy" at present; given the tutor opportunity, I grab Greaves or Jitte 99% of the time, and clamping dorks hurts the Cradle mana count / army size for Norn. I can rarely think of circumstances where I want to trade my dorks. Even the mana ones allow Sisay recasts, so yeah, I'd argue that it's counterproductive for my particular strategy.
Have you updated your list lately? Still playing? I agree that elfball is still good stuff and would love to see how that's come along over time.
1 Captain Sisay
Legends (8)
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Creatures (28)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Arbor Elf
1 Boreal Druid
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Benevolent Bodyguard
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Mother of Runes
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Bloom Tender
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Voyaging Satyr
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Karmic Guide
1 Sun Titan
1 Expedition Map
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Birthing Pod
Enchantments (10)
1 Wild Growth
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Steely Resolve
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Nevermore
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Aura Shards
1 Living Plane
Instants (8)
1 Crop Rotation
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Nature's Claim
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Valorous Stance
1 Chord of Calling
Sorceriers (4)
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Into the North
1 Council's Judgment
Legendary Lands (6)
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Dark Depths
6 Snow-Covered Forest
3 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Command Tower
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Brushland
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Mana Confluence
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Wasteland
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Homeward Path
I agree with you on Iona and Mana Tithe and it's always validating to hear another player say it; I more often cheat in Norn given the opportunity and Tithe is a dead card so often, sadly. Reveillark is once again out; 5 mana is a weird spot for the deck and Sun Titan just does Reveillark's job better.
I agree with pretty much all of your choices, I think, though I'd definitely encourage you to find space for Sylvan Library. I've also brought Rofellos in and out of the deck, but he's in for the time being. This definitely affects the amount of nonbasics you want to run vs more forests though, so his inclusion isn't something to be taken lightly. A GSZ into Rofellos into a next turn Norn (turn 4) pulled me out of a likely loss yesterday, so things like that being possible makes Rofellos a force to be reckoned with.
In general, I've found that even subpar dorks are better than the +1 land cards (though riskier, sure), so I run Boreal Druid and Quirion Ranger over Three Visits and Nature's Lore these days. Upping the early game boost to Gaea's Cradle is worthwhile, and the Ranger cards (I run them both) have given me many unexpected blowouts with Cradle + Norn. Highly recommended, if you can make space for 'em.
Tatly, I'm so happy that you're finding more time to play the deck! I'm finally getting back into it more on Cockatrice but not nearly to the extent you've been playing. I'm especially thrilled with the results you've been having. This is really valuable data for me. Is your deck list posted somewhere?
I had in fact recently gotten my hands on a Valorous Stance but only had it in the Maybeboard. Your assessment of it has definitely convinced me to put it in. Now, as always.. how do I find room for it?
Yay! My most recent version has Titania, and she won me a game tonight; my opponent Wastelanded my Cradle with an active Sisay out and I was able to get Cradle and play the Norn in my hand turn 5 (and some other really crazy ***** hahahaha).
I think I'm not too wild about the listed cards. Radiant Purge sounds almost worthwhile, maybe? It's certainly going to affect more decks than it's not, but I run so few removal spells already that it pretty much has to be strictly better than Oblivion Ring or Swords to Plowshares. Tough requirements, for sure. The others just seem too cost-prohibitive to me.
Though I am interested in Dromoka's Command somewhat, even though it has kind of the same drawbacks. It's only "kind of applicable, sometimes." If there were more of the Gods in the meta (most of them kinda faded away, I think?), I might be interested in the second ability. I otherwise see that one as fairly fringe. The first would be better if red were more prevalent, or if red ran all that much spot removal, even. The last two abilities, however, seem tempting. It turns a turn 1 elf into a turn 2 removal spell against an opponents early dorks, at the very least. I don't know, though, we usually have far more combo-centric things to focus on with 2 or 3 mana open. It's probably not good enough. What do you think?
I'm still negotiating a good recurring time (very likely, a weeknight, for an hour or two at most). In your experience, which day of the week are there the highest number of Duel Commander players on Cockatrice?
Hey, all! I wanted to chime in to say that I'm going to be trying my hand at streaming on Twitch and starting with Duel Commander commentary. I'm not decided on a day yet, but it would mean SO MUCH to me if you subscribed to my channel to get alerts about when I go live. I love this community and I want to do more to see it grow. Please subscribe: http://www.twitch.tv/bookishmatt/
(This isn't totally unprecedented; I've been hosting a YouTube Let's Play show focused on Local Multiplayer gameplay for months now called Fourplay.)
I'm very pleased to hear about your performance, especially against Animar combo. That's a helluva tough deck to beat if you're not control-based, and even still. Good stuff.
New toy for Sisay!:
Fits the curve nicely as a "deal with this or definitely lose to Norn next turn" bomb (opponents usually run out of removal by the time you get to your 6 mana drops), but it's also got a nice bod and can certainly swing games on its own. I like this one a lot!