MTGS DC Tournament - Round 1 - Riley (Sisay) vs. kozzi83 (Anafenza) - Game 1
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 1 - Riley (Sisay) vs. kozzi83 (Anafenza) - Game 2
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 2 - Riley (Sisay) vs. Konichiwa (Sisay) - Game 1
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 2 - Riley (Sisay) vs. Konichiwa (Sisay) - Game 2
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 2 - Riley (Sisay) vs. Konichiwa (Sisay) - Game 3
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 6 Exhibition (Intentional Draw) - Riley (Sisay) vs. LaPince (Titania) - Game 1
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 6 Exhibition (Intentional Draw) - Riley (Sisay) vs. LaPince (Titania) - Game 2
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 6 Exhibition (Intentional Draw) - Riley (Sisay) vs. LaPince (Titania) - Game 3
MTGS DC Tournament - Top 8 - Riley (Sisay) vs. TANeoK (Tasigur) - Game 1
MTGS DC Tournament - Top 8 - Riley (Sisay) vs. TANeoK (Tasigur) - Game 2
To briefly recap: MTGS DC Tournament - Round 1 - Riley (Sisay) vs. kozzi83 (Anafenza) - Game 1
Started on the play and had a turn 1 dork, almost always a sign of impending victory. Turn 3 Sisay into turn 4 Sigarda hooray—oh crap, the opponent has a live Jitte. Sisay, we hardly knew ye. But next turn I played Sun Titan. This turned into a bit of a creature brawl, and unfortunately for my opponent he threw two creatures to chump Titan and thought that he could boost an unequipped creature with a Jitte counter, resulting in a failed trade. Then I began to recur Wasteland, prompting a GG from my opponent.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 1 - Riley (Sisay) vs. kozzi83 (Anafenza) - Game 2
Game 2 was an awkward mull to 6 with Sunpetal Grove and Cavern of Souls in hand as my only lands, but I was on the draw so hoping for a better land draw. However, my opponent mulled to 4, soooo I could have been much worse off. I decide to name Elf on Cavern for the turn 1 dork (the best play in all of DC). Turn 3 I was living the dream with both Sisay and an active Mother of Runes. I had both Norn and Garruk in hand, so I tutored up Cradle to play both Garruk and Norn in the same turn, Neutering my opponent's board. For good measure on the next turn, I used Garruk's Overrun and GSZ's Craterhoof for +6/+6, swinging for 59 trample damage. GG.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 2 - Riley (Sisay) vs. Konichiwa (Sisay) - Game 1
On the draw, turn 1 dorks both ways. I had a turn 2 Safekeeper (yay). I managed a turn 3 Sisay + Mangara, buuuut my opponent was about to untap with Hall of the Bandit Lord. Nevertheless, I had Cradle in hand and just needed to tutor up Norn. A very good hand and great draws for me. My opponent concedes when his board is cleared.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 2 - Riley (Sisay) vs. Konichiwa (Sisay) - Game 2
On the draw again, but no turn 1 dork for me (unlike my opponent), so obviously I was destined to lose this game. ;P To make matters worse, my opponent Wastelands my turn 1 land—I should have definitely not fetched Savannah. My bad for sure. Turn 2, he drops Rofellos. Turn 3, I finally get that turn 1 dork I needed, but he drops Sisay and gets a turn 4 Norn, prompting me to scoop.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 2 - Riley (Sisay) vs. Konichiwa (Sisay) - Game 3
Game 3 is epicly long. I've got that turn 1 mana dork and both a basic plains and basic forest in hand. Turn 3, I agonize over whether to cast Sisay or my Linvala in hand (since he's got a Priest on the field already tapping for 2), but opt for Sisay first. He has no haste effects showing, so I figure I can wait. BUT NOOOO, he plays Jitte and takes out Sisay. I play Linvala next turn. He swings into Linvala with a Sylvan Ranger wielding Jitte, and regenerates her with Yavimaya Hollow. Blergh. I play Mangara as bait because I need Linvala to stick around. His Jitte is at 4 and he plays Sisay, baiting me between exiling Jitte or Sisay. We're at a stalemate, but he's building more steam than me. He kills Linvala with Jitte, and I exile Sisay in response. He recasts Sisay and now has an active Skullclamp. I Karmic Guide Linvala back into play but still don't have an answer to Jitte. I chump with Eternal Witness because I'm going to cast Sun Titan next turn. Dat Jitte/Hollow combo, tho. He kills Linvala, and finally gets a Sisay activation. He drops a Scavenging Ooze with a ton of mana from Cradle, shutting off my Witness combo. Skullclamp digs him even deeper while I'm out of cards. I topdeck Sigarda! Not quite Craterhoof or Norn, but I get my opponent down to 6 life—right before he casts a hasted Dramoka and starts to steal the game back. A sad yet great day for Sisay. ;P
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 3 - Riley (Sisay) vs. H_h (Yisan) - Game 1 & 2 - no recording
As best as I can remember, this was quick, but that's true of any Sisay vs. green deck matchup. I'm sure I ramped into Linvala and/or Norn unimpeded and prompted very quick scoops.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 5 - Riley (Sisay) vs. Jivanmukta (Wydwen) - this match was not played
My opponent was ill and had to concede.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 4 - Riley (Sisay) vs. oeoe (Geist) - Game 1, 2, and 3 - no recording
I've played against Geist so many times, so there were no surprises this match. It's fairly 50/50, but these games were quicker than usual. In general, I had fast hands and my opponent was unable to get ahead with anything. I think I must have landed Norn both games that I won.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 6 Exhibition (Intentional Draw) - Riley (Sisay) vs. LaPince (Titania) - Game 1
In brief, I manage a turn 4 active Sisay with Norn and 5 total creatures. However, my opponent still has an active commander with 4 3/1 creatures AND has the ability to play Craterhoof that turn—but it wouldn't quite be lethal. He opts for Woodland Bellower into Fierce Empath instead and see if he can swing for lethal next turn. I opt for Jitte next turn to set him back 2 creatures (including Titania). It's not enough: my opponent deals lethal off of Craterhoof the next turn.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 6 Exhibition (Intentional Draw) - Riley (Sisay) vs. LaPince (Titania) - Game 2
Game 2, we both manage those juicy turn 1 dorks, but I'm on the play! And I have both Linvala and Norn in my opener. Opponent has a turn 2 Rofellos and leveled up Joraga, though. I Linvala turn 3 instead of Sisay while my opponent plays Titania. I cast Sisay and Safekeeper the next turn, setting up for my own Titania shenanigans, and my opponent see's the writing on the wall and concedes.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 6 Exhibition (Intentional Draw) - Riley (Sisay) vs. LaPince (Titania) - Game 3
Game 3, I have a turn 2 Rofellos and 3 Forests. I cast Sisay turn 2, and my opponent follows up with turn 3 Titania. I've got Norn in hand already, so I cast her turn 4 still with 5 great cards in hand, and my opponent untaps, draws, and concedes.
MTGS DC Tournament - Top 8 - Riley (Sisay) vs. TANeoK (Tasigur) - Game 1
No turn 1 dork, but I know better than to mulligan against a control deck with tons of card advantage and counters. Turn 2 my play was countered. Turn 3 I got Hymn'd and Thought Seize'd. Nevertheless, I manage to land both an active Mother of Runes and Sisay—whose first fetch gets Stifle'd. Teeg gets countered, I fetch Cradle with Sisay, and for my next activation, I figure that Dragonlord Dromoka is my only chance of turning this game around (this almost never fails me in a control matchup) buuuut my opponent has had Venser in hand this whole time. And then Toxic Deluge happens, completely crippling me. I make one last play: GSZ, which gets countered. Game over.
MTGS DC Tournament - Top 8 - Riley (Sisay) vs. TANeoK (Tasigur) - Game 2
Game 2 I take a mulligan to ensure a white mana source, but there's no turn 1 mana dork yet again. My turn 2 Library, get's a Spell Snare. My turn 3 play gets a FoW and I miss a land drop. He drops Tasigur on turn 3. I miss my turn 4 land drop and can't play anything except for an Eladamri's Call for a mana dork (which gets countered). I finally hit 4 lands, but Sisay gets countered. Then comes JTMS. I manage to cast Yisan, but my opponent steals him with Drake, who he bounces with JTMS. I drop Linvala for *****s and giggles, who gets stolen, and then my lone Wirewood Symbiote eats an Abrupt Decay, and I concede. What a miserable set this was.
And what about the new Sigarda? Does it replace the old one or do we run both?
Hello, Makaro! In general, I really hate conditional cards, so Traverse the Ulvenwald sort of rapidly left my radar. It seems uncommon to end up with more than creatures and lands in the graveyard. I don't know for sure without testing it, but my suspicion is that this card would very rarely be "activated" in Sisay. Delerium seems way better for control decks.
The new Sigarda seems quite good, but she can't compete with the other five-drops like Titania, Reveilark, or the old Sigarda. Giving hexproof to Sisay seems great, but we already have Lightning Greaves, Mother of Runes, or even cards like Saffi and Sylvan Safekeeper...
New Sigarda bothers me quite a bit. I've only ever wanted protection effects if they hit the board on turn 1 but preferably turn 2 in preparation for a turn 3 protected Sisay. A protection card at 5 that is itself quite vulnerable will be a dud in those long slugfests vs control, I think. The curve for ramping/protecting Sisay is very particular (I used to run Dense Foliage and Steely Resolve for a long while, for instance, but they so frequently didn't work with the curve game plan and did nothing for Cradle ramp). I keep praying for more Mother of Runes-style creatures that don't require mana activations.
Out of Shadows of Innistrad so far, I personally am loving Odric, Lunarch Marshal and Sigarda, Heron's Grace with the caveat that I'm playing a more timmy-based multiplayer deck who's mantra is "there's no kill like overkill." So, I don't think my opinion matters that much in the 1v1 context. I just wanted to pop in and say, while it's hideously uncompetitive, there's something so satisfying about a mass swing with Dromoka, Norn, Akroma, Odric, Avacyn, Newlamog, and Vorinclex.
From my perspective, my meta knows to kill Sisay on sight, so I often have to run cards like Privileged Position and Steely Resolve to make sure she at least has a chance. New Sigarda is good at throwing another blockade in the way while I ramp up to perform the aforementioned red zone insanity. Personally I run both because they do different things: Newgarda is good at protecting a surprisingly human dense midrange base, but Oldgarda is good at stopping random multiplayer shenanigans like All is Dust or annihilator. Also, I've had good experience with Odric as, at the very least, he's not blocked by Teeg like Akroma's Memorial and the lifelink transfer can be very swingy. He's cheaper than the Memorial as well and, it took me a while to realize this, transfers Haste whenever anyone is wearing Swiftfoot Boots or Lightning Greaves which is amazing.
*crickets*
I'll see myself out.
I think I love Odric, but just not for Sisay. Most if not all of her combat prowess comes from sudden game-ending dork boosts (Norn, Craterhoof, Garruk), not from a long haul and shenanigans. New Odric just doesn't slot into the deck when most creatures don't have combat abilities, IMO.
(I still appreciate your perspective, even if you're not much playing 1v1! Any G/W playtesting and insights could be valuable.)
Really looking forward to the tournament write up sir.
I believe yourself and Force of Ill are the two championing (At least from a forum point of view) the elfball version now, so I'll pick up the cards I am missing and give it a run at the next French event that crops up in my area. Coming to terms with the prospect of overextending into a pyroclasm effect scares me more than it should as I am already an aggressive player!
Hunting Grounds, man I wish I knew this card existed a long time ago!
Regardless, keen to read how you broke down each game, Riley.
I do wonder if Yisan will continue to rise and thus bring back red decks like in the Edric days. Still, it's not difficult to play around those effects. Sisay can still very suddenly reach striking distance without overextending and being vulnerable, especially if you suspect it's coming in the matchup, IMO. But I know the temptation. I've played the deck so much that sometimes I go into autopilot and don't realize that my red opponent will almost certainly, for instance, have a Moon effect to punish me with. -_-
Is anyone still running Stoneforge Mystic packages?
What about Stirling Grove/enchantment packages?
Note that I don't own a Dark Depths and I don't really want to drop $50 for an edh card that doesn't have a high price ceiling.
There are some amazing players on Cockatrice who have made enchantress shells incredibly powerful (shout out to Kwiznek), and maybe there's a place for a Sisay deck that leans all in on Serra's Sanctum instead of Gaea's Cradle instead, but I've not explored that route before. Grove strikes me as better for that. I think that when I was running it, Loyal Retainers was still legal and it made a lot more sense to lean on Survival of Fittest shenanigans (and very early Iona cheats). But yeah, it's a long series of roads from having had more enchantments to the current iteration, but as I'm thinking through it all again, I think shying away from enchantments makes sense for the more Cradle/dork boost-centric build.
As for DD/Stage: I think it's a very fine combo, but didn't suit me. I like to dump my dorks, but there's definitely a case to be made for it even with the loss of 2 lands. There's probably a version of Sisay where running +1 land effects and combo search pieces makes more sense, and this is arguably Sisay's best combo given how difficult it can be to disrupt. It's quite pricey, though!, so you'll have to ask yourself if your deck needs or if you want another combo. Slots in easily enough since it's just two lands.
New Sigarda is not worth it. The fact that she doesn't have hexproof herself makes her a big no no. In the slot I have enough 5drops that can take over the game or push it completely into my favour. Newgarda is a mana-sink that cannot protect herself. Shame.
I'm currently on a multiplayer trip with Saffi (see saffi compendium thread). All I can say is, wow. That deck is lightning fast. I have some ideas picked up from the thread that I will definitly test out in DuelCommander.
I'll have a look at ChargingbadgerCZ's games tomorrow, I'm quite interessted as Riley seems to be quite siked.
Congratz on the tournament performance Riley! I watched some of the games, you have a good understanding of the Elfball concept. Keep at it!
Thank you, Force of Ill!!! Much appreciated. Keep the Selesnya dream alive.
I've only goldfished ChargingbadgerCZ's deck (with some slight modifications) and it does indeed very consistently land a turn 2 Sisay. I can't wait to live test it.
I have a question: What purpose does old Sigarda serve in this deck? Sisay is one of my most played decks, and I never ran Sigarda because i found myself never wanting her in my hand, and almost never toolboxing her up.
I think you could make a case for removing her if you really needed something else in the slot, the more that I think about it. She's been a great beat-stick for me against control decks where everything else is otherwise eating removal (and the best thing I could stick a Jitte to), so I have more than enough fond memories to want to keep including her. There are those fringe situations where you might suspect your opponent's only out is a sacrifice effect, so sometimes she can seal the deal in those situations and prompt a scoop. But yeah, the 5 mana spot is tricky and there's not a lot of elbow room (for instance, I'm not running Reveillark and that might be crazy), so I wouldn't argue Sigarda as necessarily essential. In retrospect, she was more frequently a target for me before Titania came out. Ooh la la, Titania!
Thank you, Tatly!!! I'm thrilled to have made it as far as I did. Aside from the Tasigur player who hadn't dropped a single match until the finals, my only round lost was against Kamenitza, playing my Captain Sisay deck in the first post. That's amazing on a lot of levels.
(Kamenitza ended 3-3, and so did MasterMiller. THREE Captain Sisay showings!!! Three very solid performances, all told.)
There's an asterisk or two for my performance, though. For instance, I don't feel great at all about my odds against Wydwen, but my Wydwen opponent was suffering from the flu and conceded the match, so this could have very well kept me from top 8. When I took the draw with La_Pince's Titania to get to top 8, we played an exhibition match after and I won, so a higher seeding might have taken me further if I'd played that match (I feel that the deck would perform significantly better against Jace than Tasigur, for instance).
Nevertheless, I had a commanding 2-0 vs. Anafenza and another vs. Yisan, and a very quick 2-1 (the 2 that I won were blow-outs) vs. Geist. I would say that the line-up I faced was average in terms of how lucky/unlucky I felt to be facing them all.
I feel extremely good about the elfball version of the deck—at least from a sheer competitive standpoint. I suppose there's still enough uniqueness ("Sisay-ness") that makes this deck worth playing when there are more obvious choices for the Elfball archetype, but (all concerns about creativity aside) I'd argue that Sisay plays Elfball better than any other option.
First, yes, it's true that Sisay is underplayed and that the current elfball deck that everyone's wild about is Yisan. This deck has seen some major top 8 dominance in many local metas, even resulting in scattered (but more frequent) grumblings of Yisan being ban-worthy. But(!) considering that there were 5 Yisans (tied with Marath, but 7 Tasigurs) in the tournament with the highest placing 21st, I think this is hugely significant in assessing how well the Yisan version of elfball fares in a global meta.
I've long said (to myself, mainly) that Sisay does what other Green ramp decks do, but better (let's pray that Gaea's Cradle is never banned). More consistently faster with more card advantage and more threat density. Modifying it to copy the elfball suite but still retaining some major threats and must-answer silver bullets makes Sisay, in my opinion, the best possible elfball deck available in the meta. That's including Prossh and Maelstrom Wanderer, who I've seen over and over again be very inconsistent and easier to shut down (I'm fond of Meren's potential too, but it's a relatively slow-rolling deck like Karador before it).
That said, I'm open to the possibility of either pumping the brakes a little or putting my foot on the gas in terms of "all-in-ness." That is, to what extent do we invest in the mid-game slightly more or go the other direction and rely on faster mana sources? As for next steps, I believe that's where the deck is at, finely tuning the speed and vulnerability aspect for the current meta.
I've got a post-tourney list that goes slightly more in the "all-in" direction, but there's a full-tilt-crazy version that ChargingBadgerCZ PM'd that I'd love to start playtesting with an emphasis on a consistent turn 2 Sisay. I'll poke him to share his ideas here in the thread. Could be promising!
I've beaten a lot of control players with Thrun and Saffi while playing Marath. Now I'm actually testing Sisay for future tournaments and I have to say that I find some of your card choices quite odd
I would eg. never put Joraga Treespeaker or Sejiri Steppe in any competetive commander deck. And I also hate two-mana acceleration like Sakura (but that's just my own taste). And on the other hand, I'm lacking more fast mana in your deck. I think playng T2 Sisay is so huge, that I'd play all cards like Moxes and Elvish Spirit Guide. And I'm also curious if you ever tried Cataclysm in the deck. On paper, it seems quite busted with Sisay
I'm thrilled to know you're testing Sisay! She still has quite a "casual" stigma attached to her and not a lot of tournament representation/testing (this was my first tournament with her in 3 years, and the previous Salvation attempts fizzled before completion), so there's definitely a lot of fine-tuning needed in considerations against a top 8 set of competitors. It's a really tough balance to strike, and I've definitely skewed in the past towards too many control-conscious card choices at the detriment of outracing/outcomboing other creature heavy decks and I've similarly gone too all in on fast mana options and eaten some massive losses against control decks.
At this juncture, most of my card choices are a mirror of anything remotely similar strategy-wise in top 8 decks with those juicy Sisay cards that have proven necessary staples (Norn and more recently Dramoka, for examples). Joraga is very commonly seen in Elfball decks (http://mtgtop8.com/search) and is a fast +1 for Cradle, if nothing else, and can result in a more easily attainable turn 4 Norn than other 1-drop elf creatures or early plays. Opponents very rarely target it for removal unless you otherwise look mana screwed knowing that you've got some other really obnoxious options needing removed more on turns 3 and 4 (since Joraga is more about casting your 6 and up spells). Steppe is less commonly seen (but still makes its top 8 appearances) and has pulled its weight alongside Crop Rotation to save "must stick" creatures where their survival is the difference between winning and losing that game. But yeah, it's totally clunky and I hate it when, say, I've kept a 2 land hand after a mull to 6 and I draw it as my third land. Wah wah.
(Let's meet up on Cockatrice sometime soon if you're able? I'm happy to talk through card choices and compare/contrast to Marath. I'm "TheGoldenBoy". Hit me up!)
Wow, not playing Thrun in the Captian Sisay deck makes me really sad. It would have been really good against Tasigur...
I meeeeaaaaaan, I tried to resolve an uncounterable creature with a bigger butt the turn before and got Venser'd and lost shortly after (this is also the game where I got board wiped by a -x/-x spell), sooooooooooo...
(I played Thrun for a long time many moons ago, but it virtually never impacted the game. The meta was more combo-heavy and even more board-wipe heavy then, if you can believe that, but it never really made sense to keep playing Thrun in the 99 [even though I've seen some decent performances on Cockatrice from Thrun as an all-in voltron commander {but against B-Tier decks mainly?}].)
This is the format I play exclusively at this point. The sheer potential for creative deckbuilding AND having a shot at being competitive is staggeringly awesome. The Rules Committee has done a tremendous job over the years of balancing this format. Much love. <3
To briefly recap:
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 1 - Riley (Sisay) vs. kozzi83 (Anafenza) - Game 1
Started on the play and had a turn 1 dork, almost always a sign of impending victory. Turn 3 Sisay into turn 4 Sigarda hooray—oh crap, the opponent has a live Jitte. Sisay, we hardly knew ye. But next turn I played Sun Titan. This turned into a bit of a creature brawl, and unfortunately for my opponent he threw two creatures to chump Titan and thought that he could boost an unequipped creature with a Jitte counter, resulting in a failed trade. Then I began to recur Wasteland, prompting a GG from my opponent.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 1 - Riley (Sisay) vs. kozzi83 (Anafenza) - Game 2
Game 2 was an awkward mull to 6 with Sunpetal Grove and Cavern of Souls in hand as my only lands, but I was on the draw so hoping for a better land draw. However, my opponent mulled to 4, soooo I could have been much worse off. I decide to name Elf on Cavern for the turn 1 dork (the best play in all of DC). Turn 3 I was living the dream with both Sisay and an active Mother of Runes. I had both Norn and Garruk in hand, so I tutored up Cradle to play both Garruk and Norn in the same turn, Neutering my opponent's board. For good measure on the next turn, I used Garruk's Overrun and GSZ's Craterhoof for +6/+6, swinging for 59 trample damage. GG.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 2 - Riley (Sisay) vs. Konichiwa (Sisay) - Game 1
On the draw, turn 1 dorks both ways. I had a turn 2 Safekeeper (yay). I managed a turn 3 Sisay + Mangara, buuuut my opponent was about to untap with Hall of the Bandit Lord. Nevertheless, I had Cradle in hand and just needed to tutor up Norn. A very good hand and great draws for me. My opponent concedes when his board is cleared.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 2 - Riley (Sisay) vs. Konichiwa (Sisay) - Game 2
On the draw again, but no turn 1 dork for me (unlike my opponent), so obviously I was destined to lose this game. ;P To make matters worse, my opponent Wastelands my turn 1 land—I should have definitely not fetched Savannah. My bad for sure. Turn 2, he drops Rofellos. Turn 3, I finally get that turn 1 dork I needed, but he drops Sisay and gets a turn 4 Norn, prompting me to scoop.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 2 - Riley (Sisay) vs. Konichiwa (Sisay) - Game 3
Game 3 is epicly long. I've got that turn 1 mana dork and both a basic plains and basic forest in hand. Turn 3, I agonize over whether to cast Sisay or my Linvala in hand (since he's got a Priest on the field already tapping for 2), but opt for Sisay first. He has no haste effects showing, so I figure I can wait. BUT NOOOO, he plays Jitte and takes out Sisay. I play Linvala next turn. He swings into Linvala with a Sylvan Ranger wielding Jitte, and regenerates her with Yavimaya Hollow. Blergh. I play Mangara as bait because I need Linvala to stick around. His Jitte is at 4 and he plays Sisay, baiting me between exiling Jitte or Sisay. We're at a stalemate, but he's building more steam than me. He kills Linvala with Jitte, and I exile Sisay in response. He recasts Sisay and now has an active Skullclamp. I Karmic Guide Linvala back into play but still don't have an answer to Jitte. I chump with Eternal Witness because I'm going to cast Sun Titan next turn. Dat Jitte/Hollow combo, tho. He kills Linvala, and finally gets a Sisay activation. He drops a Scavenging Ooze with a ton of mana from Cradle, shutting off my Witness combo. Skullclamp digs him even deeper while I'm out of cards. I topdeck Sigarda! Not quite Craterhoof or Norn, but I get my opponent down to 6 life—right before he casts a hasted Dramoka and starts to steal the game back. A sad yet great day for Sisay. ;P
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 3 - Riley (Sisay) vs. H_h (Yisan) - Game 1 & 2 - no recording
As best as I can remember, this was quick, but that's true of any Sisay vs. green deck matchup. I'm sure I ramped into Linvala and/or Norn unimpeded and prompted very quick scoops.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 5 - Riley (Sisay) vs. Jivanmukta (Wydwen) - this match was not played
My opponent was ill and had to concede.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 4 - Riley (Sisay) vs. oeoe (Geist) - Game 1, 2, and 3 - no recording
I've played against Geist so many times, so there were no surprises this match. It's fairly 50/50, but these games were quicker than usual. In general, I had fast hands and my opponent was unable to get ahead with anything. I think I must have landed Norn both games that I won.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 6 Exhibition (Intentional Draw) - Riley (Sisay) vs. LaPince (Titania) - Game 1
In brief, I manage a turn 4 active Sisay with Norn and 5 total creatures. However, my opponent still has an active commander with 4 3/1 creatures AND has the ability to play Craterhoof that turn—but it wouldn't quite be lethal. He opts for Woodland Bellower into Fierce Empath instead and see if he can swing for lethal next turn. I opt for Jitte next turn to set him back 2 creatures (including Titania). It's not enough: my opponent deals lethal off of Craterhoof the next turn.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 6 Exhibition (Intentional Draw) - Riley (Sisay) vs. LaPince (Titania) - Game 2
Game 2, we both manage those juicy turn 1 dorks, but I'm on the play! And I have both Linvala and Norn in my opener. Opponent has a turn 2 Rofellos and leveled up Joraga, though. I Linvala turn 3 instead of Sisay while my opponent plays Titania. I cast Sisay and Safekeeper the next turn, setting up for my own Titania shenanigans, and my opponent see's the writing on the wall and concedes.
MTGS DC Tournament - Round 6 Exhibition (Intentional Draw) - Riley (Sisay) vs. LaPince (Titania) - Game 3
Game 3, I have a turn 2 Rofellos and 3 Forests. I cast Sisay turn 2, and my opponent follows up with turn 3 Titania. I've got Norn in hand already, so I cast her turn 4 still with 5 great cards in hand, and my opponent untaps, draws, and concedes.
MTGS DC Tournament - Top 8 - Riley (Sisay) vs. TANeoK (Tasigur) - Game 1
No turn 1 dork, but I know better than to mulligan against a control deck with tons of card advantage and counters. Turn 2 my play was countered. Turn 3 I got Hymn'd and Thought Seize'd. Nevertheless, I manage to land both an active Mother of Runes and Sisay—whose first fetch gets Stifle'd. Teeg gets countered, I fetch Cradle with Sisay, and for my next activation, I figure that Dragonlord Dromoka is my only chance of turning this game around (this almost never fails me in a control matchup) buuuut my opponent has had Venser in hand this whole time. And then Toxic Deluge happens, completely crippling me. I make one last play: GSZ, which gets countered. Game over.
MTGS DC Tournament - Top 8 - Riley (Sisay) vs. TANeoK (Tasigur) - Game 2
Game 2 I take a mulligan to ensure a white mana source, but there's no turn 1 mana dork yet again. My turn 2 Library, get's a Spell Snare. My turn 3 play gets a FoW and I miss a land drop. He drops Tasigur on turn 3. I miss my turn 4 land drop and can't play anything except for an Eladamri's Call for a mana dork (which gets countered). I finally hit 4 lands, but Sisay gets countered. Then comes JTMS. I manage to cast Yisan, but my opponent steals him with Drake, who he bounces with JTMS. I drop Linvala for *****s and giggles, who gets stolen, and then my lone Wirewood Symbiote eats an Abrupt Decay, and I concede. What a miserable set this was.
Hello, Makaro! In general, I really hate conditional cards, so Traverse the Ulvenwald sort of rapidly left my radar. It seems uncommon to end up with more than creatures and lands in the graveyard. I don't know for sure without testing it, but my suspicion is that this card would very rarely be "activated" in Sisay. Delerium seems way better for control decks.
New Sigarda bothers me quite a bit. I've only ever wanted protection effects if they hit the board on turn 1 but preferably turn 2 in preparation for a turn 3 protected Sisay. A protection card at 5 that is itself quite vulnerable will be a dud in those long slugfests vs control, I think. The curve for ramping/protecting Sisay is very particular (I used to run Dense Foliage and Steely Resolve for a long while, for instance, but they so frequently didn't work with the curve game plan and did nothing for Cradle ramp). I keep praying for more Mother of Runes-style creatures that don't require mana activations.
I think I love Odric, but just not for Sisay. Most if not all of her combat prowess comes from sudden game-ending dork boosts (Norn, Craterhoof, Garruk), not from a long haul and shenanigans. New Odric just doesn't slot into the deck when most creatures don't have combat abilities, IMO.
(I still appreciate your perspective, even if you're not much playing 1v1! Any G/W playtesting and insights could be valuable.)
I do wonder if Yisan will continue to rise and thus bring back red decks like in the Edric days. Still, it's not difficult to play around those effects. Sisay can still very suddenly reach striking distance without overextending and being vulnerable, especially if you suspect it's coming in the matchup, IMO. But I know the temptation. I've played the deck so much that sometimes I go into autopilot and don't realize that my red opponent will almost certainly, for instance, have a Moon effect to punish me with. -_-
There are some amazing players on Cockatrice who have made enchantress shells incredibly powerful (shout out to Kwiznek), and maybe there's a place for a Sisay deck that leans all in on Serra's Sanctum instead of Gaea's Cradle instead, but I've not explored that route before. Grove strikes me as better for that. I think that when I was running it, Loyal Retainers was still legal and it made a lot more sense to lean on Survival of Fittest shenanigans (and very early Iona cheats). But yeah, it's a long series of roads from having had more enchantments to the current iteration, but as I'm thinking through it all again, I think shying away from enchantments makes sense for the more Cradle/dork boost-centric build.
As for DD/Stage: I think it's a very fine combo, but didn't suit me. I like to dump my dorks, but there's definitely a case to be made for it even with the loss of 2 lands. There's probably a version of Sisay where running +1 land effects and combo search pieces makes more sense, and this is arguably Sisay's best combo given how difficult it can be to disrupt. It's quite pricey, though!, so you'll have to ask yourself if your deck needs or if you want another combo. Slots in easily enough since it's just two lands.
Great deck stats!! do you play on Cockatrice or is this from in-person results? Either way, awesome!
Here's what I was playing in the tourney: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11874&d=267930&f=EDH
My post-tourney list is about 5-8 cards different, but still testing before I share.
Thank you, Force of Ill!!! Much appreciated. Keep the Selesnya dream alive.
I've only goldfished ChargingbadgerCZ's deck (with some slight modifications) and it does indeed very consistently land a turn 2 Sisay. I can't wait to live test it.
I think you could make a case for removing her if you really needed something else in the slot, the more that I think about it. She's been a great beat-stick for me against control decks where everything else is otherwise eating removal (and the best thing I could stick a Jitte to), so I have more than enough fond memories to want to keep including her. There are those fringe situations where you might suspect your opponent's only out is a sacrifice effect, so sometimes she can seal the deal in those situations and prompt a scoop. But yeah, the 5 mana spot is tricky and there's not a lot of elbow room (for instance, I'm not running Reveillark and that might be crazy), so I wouldn't argue Sigarda as necessarily essential. In retrospect, she was more frequently a target for me before Titania came out. Ooh la la, Titania!
(Kamenitza ended 3-3, and so did MasterMiller. THREE Captain Sisay showings!!! Three very solid performances, all told.)
There's an asterisk or two for my performance, though. For instance, I don't feel great at all about my odds against Wydwen, but my Wydwen opponent was suffering from the flu and conceded the match, so this could have very well kept me from top 8. When I took the draw with La_Pince's Titania to get to top 8, we played an exhibition match after and I won, so a higher seeding might have taken me further if I'd played that match (I feel that the deck would perform significantly better against Jace than Tasigur, for instance).
Nevertheless, I had a commanding 2-0 vs. Anafenza and another vs. Yisan, and a very quick 2-1 (the 2 that I won were blow-outs) vs. Geist. I would say that the line-up I faced was average in terms of how lucky/unlucky I felt to be facing them all.
I feel extremely good about the elfball version of the deck—at least from a sheer competitive standpoint. I suppose there's still enough uniqueness ("Sisay-ness") that makes this deck worth playing when there are more obvious choices for the Elfball archetype, but (all concerns about creativity aside) I'd argue that Sisay plays Elfball better than any other option.
First, yes, it's true that Sisay is underplayed and that the current elfball deck that everyone's wild about is Yisan. This deck has seen some major top 8 dominance in many local metas, even resulting in scattered (but more frequent) grumblings of Yisan being ban-worthy. But(!) considering that there were 5 Yisans (tied with Marath, but 7 Tasigurs) in the tournament with the highest placing 21st, I think this is hugely significant in assessing how well the Yisan version of elfball fares in a global meta.
I've long said (to myself, mainly) that Sisay does what other Green ramp decks do, but better (let's pray that Gaea's Cradle is never banned). More consistently faster with more card advantage and more threat density. Modifying it to copy the elfball suite but still retaining some major threats and must-answer silver bullets makes Sisay, in my opinion, the best possible elfball deck available in the meta. That's including Prossh and Maelstrom Wanderer, who I've seen over and over again be very inconsistent and easier to shut down (I'm fond of Meren's potential too, but it's a relatively slow-rolling deck like Karador before it).
That said, I'm open to the possibility of either pumping the brakes a little or putting my foot on the gas in terms of "all-in-ness." That is, to what extent do we invest in the mid-game slightly more or go the other direction and rely on faster mana sources? As for next steps, I believe that's where the deck is at, finely tuning the speed and vulnerability aspect for the current meta.
I've got a post-tourney list that goes slightly more in the "all-in" direction, but there's a full-tilt-crazy version that ChargingBadgerCZ PM'd that I'd love to start playtesting with an emphasis on a consistent turn 2 Sisay. I'll poke him to share his ideas here in the thread. Could be promising!
I'm thrilled to know you're testing Sisay! She still has quite a "casual" stigma attached to her and not a lot of tournament representation/testing (this was my first tournament with her in 3 years, and the previous Salvation attempts fizzled before completion), so there's definitely a lot of fine-tuning needed in considerations against a top 8 set of competitors. It's a really tough balance to strike, and I've definitely skewed in the past towards too many control-conscious card choices at the detriment of outracing/outcomboing other creature heavy decks and I've similarly gone too all in on fast mana options and eaten some massive losses against control decks.
At this juncture, most of my card choices are a mirror of anything remotely similar strategy-wise in top 8 decks with those juicy Sisay cards that have proven necessary staples (Norn and more recently Dramoka, for examples). Joraga is very commonly seen in Elfball decks (http://mtgtop8.com/search) and is a fast +1 for Cradle, if nothing else, and can result in a more easily attainable turn 4 Norn than other 1-drop elf creatures or early plays. Opponents very rarely target it for removal unless you otherwise look mana screwed knowing that you've got some other really obnoxious options needing removed more on turns 3 and 4 (since Joraga is more about casting your 6 and up spells). Steppe is less commonly seen (but still makes its top 8 appearances) and has pulled its weight alongside Crop Rotation to save "must stick" creatures where their survival is the difference between winning and losing that game. But yeah, it's totally clunky and I hate it when, say, I've kept a 2 land hand after a mull to 6 and I draw it as my third land. Wah wah.
(Let's meet up on Cockatrice sometime soon if you're able? I'm happy to talk through card choices and compare/contrast to Marath. I'm "TheGoldenBoy". Hit me up!)
I meeeeaaaaaan, I tried to resolve an uncounterable creature with a bigger butt the turn before and got Venser'd and lost shortly after (this is also the game where I got board wiped by a -x/-x spell), sooooooooooo...
(I played Thrun for a long time many moons ago, but it virtually never impacted the game. The meta was more combo-heavy and even more board-wipe heavy then, if you can believe that, but it never really made sense to keep playing Thrun in the 99 [even though I've seen some decent performances on Cockatrice from Thrun as an all-in voltron commander {but against B-Tier decks mainly?}].)
HEY GUYS, WATCH ME GET DEMOLISHED: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw7hPqV7IT4Db3Z1U2VaZ3YydFk&usp=sharing
GREEEEEEEEEEN POWER!
GGs! Hard fought, well played on both sides. It's a pretty 50/50 matchup in my experience, so it could have easily gone either way.
Get well soon!
GGs!
This is why everyone should play non-interactive elfball combo. I expect my next set (against Yisan) to be over in 15 minutes tops. ;P
(My opponent and I are scheduled for tomorrow night at 9:30 PM UTC-5!)
GREAT GAMES! GO SISAY!!