Going to run out Golgari Midrange to the LGS tonight to mix things up. Thoughts on this? I don't own Dark Confidant any longer, but I'm also not sure it's great in an aggressive metagame.
So based on decklists from the past month+, there appear to be about 2-3 flex spots in the main, which are usually filled with:
- 3rd Walking Ballista, usually coupled with 2x Dismember
- 3x Relic of Progenitus, or maybe 2x Relic with 1x Dismember and no 3rd Ballista
For some reason I feel like Dismember is going to be more flexibly strong than a Relic, but Relic is definitely more popular at the moment. Is it just because it cycles and has incidental hate? I have been loving the 3rd Ballista vs. all sorts of low-toughness decks that can potentially run us over, like Affinity or Infect. Being able to remove counters one-by-one is a real beating for Infect on the stack.
I've played the deck twice recently and generally struggle with my closing speed. Even if I stabilize, a deck like Elves seems to quickly refill with Collected Company or Lead the Stampede. That's my primary issue at the moment but it is a good deck, and very challenging to play precisely.
Last night I twice wanted to fetch up a Godless Shrine, and lamented not having a 1/1 split with Shrine and Sacred Foundry. I'm surprised 2x Sacred Foundry is the default build at the moment, and definitely will be running the 1/1 split in the future.
Obviously, making these upgrades would make the deck a lot better but I understand if you can't right now. (The verdants aren't actually neccesary so don't worry about getting them).
What do you replace Verdant with without losing the ability to fetch a basic Swamp or Forest? It seems like Marsh Flats would be strictly worse by far. I'd like to not have to move my Verdants around between Jund and Counters Co if possible, but I can't see what would be equal to them.
Do any of you have the deck foiled out? Or mixed foils? I've currently got scattered foils here and there due to card availability. I'dd say about 70% of the deck is unfoiled, and I'm debating whether I should downgrade the foils or slowly start upgrading the deck. Jund is the only deck I really like playing, and I've had it for a couple years now. But some of the foils are very expensive, and I don't know if there's any merit for it outside of some possible "intimidation" factor.
I'm curious about the reason to ask this question. If you have a debate about foiling a very very very expensive deck out, don't do it. Foiling is entirely a money sink for no reason whatsoever beyond personal enjoyment of spending a lot of money on cards.
I personally think, unless you dont fetch for basics against FoR decks, it doesnt really matter which basic you have for the overall meta, unless its 4 of them. Mountain helps against FoR a bit more, forest against BM a bit more.
We run 4 Blackcleave, 1 Blood, 1 Stomping and 3 Ravine as actual red sources. Solely statistically speaking, the odds of your opponent drawing more FoR than you natural red sources, is in our favor.
But of course, sometimes running a mountain can help. Its surely preference, which you feel more and less comfortable to face.
I also don't really mind having a painless source of red mana if necessary. I think it's a lot of upside for not a ton of downside (IMO).
I think it is a lot of downside (esp. if you run twilight mire) for little upside. It is bad against moon decks, bad to draw, and in most cases bad to fetch.
I've already played multiple games where the basic mountain kept me able to cast red spells, so I'll keep doing it.
What makes a basic mountain bad against moon decks, exactly?
I personally think, unless you dont fetch for basics against FoR decks, it doesnt really matter which basic you have for the overall meta, unless its 4 of them. Mountain helps against FoR a bit more, forest against BM a bit more.
We run 4 Blackcleave, 1 Blood, 1 Stomping and 3 Ravine as actual red sources. Solely statistically speaking, the odds of your opponent drawing more FoR than you natural red sources, is in our favor.
But of course, sometimes running a mountain can help. Its surely preference, which you feel more and less comfortable to face.
I also don't really mind having a painless source of red mana if necessary. I think it's a lot of upside for not a ton of downside (IMO).
Sigh, then run the mountain, obviously people have different fears.
Seeing one corner case where someone drew four copies of FoR isn't enough for me but everyone has different experiences and theories.
4 FoR isn't required to take you off red. It's very feasible for a FoR to take you off red with only a single copy being drawn and used, and if you can't replace your red source with a mountain you can be proper effed. It's also a nice surprise for the opponent who thinks they can take you off red, leaves your double black intact, and you grab that basic mountain out of the deck to replace it, putting you barely behind on where you were.
Nothing really weird in my choices. I shaved down to 2 Ravines and added a TTV because having more than 1 can feel really bad, and they can be expensive to activate. TTV is pretty high-quality for a cheap activation cost. The 4 basics are ESSENTIAL in this metagame, IMO.
R1 vs GW Valuetown: A struggle. They were able to stick high value creatures like Voice, Ramunap Excavator, Tireless Tracker, Courser, KotR, Scooze, etc, and outran my removal - especially with CoCo. I lost game 1 to being overwhelmed by creatures and the opponent beginning to recur Ghost Quarters to assault my manabase. I sideboarded in as much small creature removal I could, 2 CoBru, 2 Anger, Lavaman, Finks, and a single Nihil Spellbomb to attempt to stop his KotR and Ramunap value. What to take out was somewhat challenging. I felt that KComm wasn't high value, as his removal was simply path and his creatures were usually higher than 2 toughness. I probably shaved a little hand disruption and a few LotV (I find her low value for board-swarm decks) along with the KComm.
Game 2 was pretty much on autopilot as he was stuck on 2 lands after a mull and me killing his mana dork. LtLH on turn 3 and just upticked to an ultimate threat at which point he scooped. Game 3 was pretty much a repeat of game 1. My Anger of the Gods weren't able to remove enough creatures, especially Courser. I cascaded into my 2nd Anger when it was essentially useless, as well. 0-1
R2 vs RG Eldrazi Tron. A pretty bad matchup where I got somewhat lucky but played as best I could to get there. The deck seemed like a hybrid between standard Eldrazi Tron and RG Tron. G1 I barely remember, I think my opponent wasn't able to make tron as I decay'ed an expedition map and all he seemed to be drawing were Chromatic Spheres. I was able to get in there with creatures before he could cast anything intimidating. Sideboard: In: 3 Fulmy bois, 2 Ancient Grudge, 1 Pulse. Out: LtLH, CoBru, Push, probably 3 bolts.
G2 my opener featured 2 Fulminator Mages, 2 not amazing lands, and some other stuff I can't recall. It was a keep only because the Fumlybois. It seemed like an uphill battle when my opponent was able to make Tron early and played a Reality Smasher, and all I had on board was Bob. I removed the Smasher with a dreadbore or terminate and made a tough decision on what to pitch at that point. I believe I threw away a Goyf, as I knew I needed to hit a 3rd land just to start playing my Mages and wouldn't be playing a Goyf for my next few turns, as I also had a BBE in hand at that point as well. So my plan to win was remove the big threat, draw into land, and start taking him off tron. After removing his Smasher, he followed up with an Endbringer, which is always sad to see. I drew into a 3rd land and started taking him off Tron. The opponent attacked into my Bob without using Endbringer's no-block ability, probably hoping I'd chump. Needing more draw, I took it and went to 9 life or so. I untapped, drew into another land, and killed the endbringer. I was able to cascade into another Fulmy and play the one in hand later, as a hand disruption spell showed him stuck on green mana as well as not able to cast the Karn in hand. I will be moving to 4 Fulminators in the future as I bought one with the last 2 visits of store credit I had earned. 1-1
R3 was against JtmS miracles. A challenging deck to face down. G1 was a grind where he stuck a JtmS fairly early, and started brainstorming to set up his miracles. He did some cool stuff like set up an instant-speed terminus off an Opt when I had a BBE, a Bob, and cast another BBE in order to attack in to kill his Jace even if he held path, and swung in. I was holding a Pulse since my opener, but felt like I had to hold it in the face of an Entreat the Angels he was setting up as his wincon. He did eventually cast it for 4 angels and I removed them, but my board was empty and he began fatesealing me, and the game was over - scoop. Sideboard in: Pulse, Finks, Fulminators, out: terminate, push, LtLH, forget what else really.
G2 was much faster as my opponent wasn't able to get a Jace down to set up his miracles. An early IoK let me take his Entreat the Angels, which was actually a hard choice vs. a Path when all I held was Goyf. I didn't want to let him draw into a Jace to set up the Miracle, so just let him path-ramp my Gofy to speed out a BBE later. I was able to get a clock down fast enough to win fairly efficiently before he could do much.
G3 was harder as he did stick a Jace, but it was essentially a 4 mana brainstorm/gain 3 life as I finished it off with a Goyf. He cast a non-miracled Terminus eventually to clear a few of my creatures, and had a Ghost Quarter on board which required me make some touch choices. He had previously Field of Ruined my single red source on board, and I held my mountain in hand already. I didn't want to play it into the GQ, so I didn't make a land drop with it until I could play it and cast my BBE with it, rather than have it stuck in hand due to no red sources. I eventually over-ran what he had in hand for a win. I felt like I made a few smart decisions about when to hold stuff in hand to play around what I knew he had even though it made my clock a potential turn or two slower. 2-1
R4 against mono-U Tron. This guy was a regular who plays this pet deck often. We didn't really have many real games. G1 he mulls to 5 with me on 6, but he is still able to get stuff going. He plays a 6-land Wurmcoil, but I am holding an KComm and a fatal push I had felt bad about drawing earlier. Turns out it was just what I needed to fight through with my 4 creatures on baord. Kcomm the Wurmcoil, fatal push the lifelinker, attach in, game. Sideboard in: Pulse, Mages, Grudges, out: probably the push, bolts, CoBru. G2 I mull to 5 and he plays a turn 4 Ugin, saying "skill game". I hold no pulse or dreadbore, so am forced to cast a BBE and pray. I cascade into a Thoughtseize which reveals a hand I'm not fighting through of various counterspells. He kills the BBE with Ugin, I don't draw anything to remove Ugin, concede. G3 he mulls to 5, I cascade into a Fulminator turn 4 to take him off one of his 2 lands, not really a game. 3-1
I'm not sure how I'd want to change the deck right now besides adding a 4th Fulminator Mage and probably shaving the Finks. Needs more testing. GW Valuetown seems like a terrible matchup and I'm not sure the best way to combat it. Not having a damnation felt awful as it's the ultimate safety valve against go-wide strategies with high toughness creatures. But I'm not sure a 1-of is really worth it especially as you can't cascade into it.
Would running a couple of Grim Flayers help with fix cascade? Flayer lets us fix the top of our library and possibly remove cards we don't want to cascade into.
That is 100% best case scenario mentality, in my opinion. What would you CUT to run the Flayers, is the question?
Meta is pretty wide open. I know there will be a lot of GBx midrange as it always is a presence at PPTQs at this store. Eldrazi Tron took 2 of the top 6 places this week, which is a new phenomenon there. I expect to see:
- GBx
- Eldrazi Tron
- Merfolk
- Affinity
- Hatebears
- Shadow
- Affinity
- Company decks
13 cards I'm 90% sure on for the board:
- 3x path
- 2x palm
- 4x Revelry
- 2x Bridge
- 2x Relic
Ugh... I'm really torn on the final 2 slots in my sideboard. Either:
-2x Searing Blood
-2x Kor Firewalker
-2x Stony Silence (this is really my least preferred option. I've never seen Lantern Control at a LGS and I think Searing Blood can help with Affinity along with shoring up small creature matchups)
What's a good PPTQ sideboard to take the next few weeks? Things I KNOW will be there:
- affinity
- company
- shadow
- jund/junk
- burn
I haven't seen Eldrazi Tron or Titanshift once in my local area but that doesn't mean it won't show up. Based on playing in my area a bit I know the list I posted will show up.
My thinking is some mix of the following:
- 3x Path
- 2x Deflecting Palm
- 3-4x Destructive Revelry
- 2x Ensnaring Bridge
- 2x Relic of Prog OR 2x Rest in Peace (OPINIONS?)
- 2-3x Kor Firewalker
- 2x Stony Silence
My thinking of the final 15 is:
- 3x path
- 2x palm
- 4x Revelry
- 2x Bridge
- 2x Relic
- 2x Stony
3 Assassin's Trophy
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Collective Brutality
4 Fatal Push
4 Field of Ruin
2 Forest
3 Hissing Quagmire
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Swamp
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Thoughtseize
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Treetop Village
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Choke
1 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
2 Damping Sphere
1 Duress
1 Languish
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Surgical Extraction
- 3rd Walking Ballista, usually coupled with 2x Dismember
- 3x Relic of Progenitus, or maybe 2x Relic with 1x Dismember and no 3rd Ballista
For some reason I feel like Dismember is going to be more flexibly strong than a Relic, but Relic is definitely more popular at the moment. Is it just because it cycles and has incidental hate? I have been loving the 3rd Ballista vs. all sorts of low-toughness decks that can potentially run us over, like Affinity or Infect. Being able to remove counters one-by-one is a real beating for Infect on the stack.
Last night I twice wanted to fetch up a Godless Shrine, and lamented not having a 1/1 split with Shrine and Sacred Foundry. I'm surprised 2x Sacred Foundry is the default build at the moment, and definitely will be running the 1/1 split in the future.
What do you replace Verdant with without losing the ability to fetch a basic Swamp or Forest? It seems like Marsh Flats would be strictly worse by far. I'd like to not have to move my Verdants around between Jund and Counters Co if possible, but I can't see what would be equal to them.
I'm curious about the reason to ask this question. If you have a debate about foiling a very very very expensive deck out, don't do it. Foiling is entirely a money sink for no reason whatsoever beyond personal enjoyment of spending a lot of money on cards.
I've already played multiple games where the basic mountain kept me able to cast red spells, so I'll keep doing it.
What makes a basic mountain bad against moon decks, exactly?
I also don't really mind having a painless source of red mana if necessary. I think it's a lot of upside for not a ton of downside (IMO).
4 FoR isn't required to take you off red. It's very feasible for a FoR to take you off red with only a single copy being drawn and used, and if you can't replace your red source with a mountain you can be proper effed. It's also a nice surprise for the opponent who thinks they can take you off red, leaves your double black intact, and you grab that basic mountain out of the deck to replace it, putting you barely behind on where you were.
Deck I ran: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/943497#paper
Nothing really weird in my choices. I shaved down to 2 Ravines and added a TTV because having more than 1 can feel really bad, and they can be expensive to activate. TTV is pretty high-quality for a cheap activation cost. The 4 basics are ESSENTIAL in this metagame, IMO.
R1 vs GW Valuetown: A struggle. They were able to stick high value creatures like Voice, Ramunap Excavator, Tireless Tracker, Courser, KotR, Scooze, etc, and outran my removal - especially with CoCo. I lost game 1 to being overwhelmed by creatures and the opponent beginning to recur Ghost Quarters to assault my manabase. I sideboarded in as much small creature removal I could, 2 CoBru, 2 Anger, Lavaman, Finks, and a single Nihil Spellbomb to attempt to stop his KotR and Ramunap value. What to take out was somewhat challenging. I felt that KComm wasn't high value, as his removal was simply path and his creatures were usually higher than 2 toughness. I probably shaved a little hand disruption and a few LotV (I find her low value for board-swarm decks) along with the KComm.
Game 2 was pretty much on autopilot as he was stuck on 2 lands after a mull and me killing his mana dork. LtLH on turn 3 and just upticked to an ultimate threat at which point he scooped. Game 3 was pretty much a repeat of game 1. My Anger of the Gods weren't able to remove enough creatures, especially Courser. I cascaded into my 2nd Anger when it was essentially useless, as well. 0-1
R2 vs RG Eldrazi Tron. A pretty bad matchup where I got somewhat lucky but played as best I could to get there. The deck seemed like a hybrid between standard Eldrazi Tron and RG Tron. G1 I barely remember, I think my opponent wasn't able to make tron as I decay'ed an expedition map and all he seemed to be drawing were Chromatic Spheres. I was able to get in there with creatures before he could cast anything intimidating. Sideboard: In: 3 Fulmy bois, 2 Ancient Grudge, 1 Pulse. Out: LtLH, CoBru, Push, probably 3 bolts.
G2 my opener featured 2 Fulminator Mages, 2 not amazing lands, and some other stuff I can't recall. It was a keep only because the Fumlybois. It seemed like an uphill battle when my opponent was able to make Tron early and played a Reality Smasher, and all I had on board was Bob. I removed the Smasher with a dreadbore or terminate and made a tough decision on what to pitch at that point. I believe I threw away a Goyf, as I knew I needed to hit a 3rd land just to start playing my Mages and wouldn't be playing a Goyf for my next few turns, as I also had a BBE in hand at that point as well. So my plan to win was remove the big threat, draw into land, and start taking him off tron. After removing his Smasher, he followed up with an Endbringer, which is always sad to see. I drew into a 3rd land and started taking him off Tron. The opponent attacked into my Bob without using Endbringer's no-block ability, probably hoping I'd chump. Needing more draw, I took it and went to 9 life or so. I untapped, drew into another land, and killed the endbringer. I was able to cascade into another Fulmy and play the one in hand later, as a hand disruption spell showed him stuck on green mana as well as not able to cast the Karn in hand. I will be moving to 4 Fulminators in the future as I bought one with the last 2 visits of store credit I had earned.
R3 was against JtmS miracles. A challenging deck to face down. G1 was a grind where he stuck a JtmS fairly early, and started brainstorming to set up his miracles. He did some cool stuff like set up an instant-speed terminus off an Opt when I had a BBE, a Bob, and cast another BBE in order to attack in to kill his Jace even if he held path, and swung in. I was holding a Pulse since my opener, but felt like I had to hold it in the face of an Entreat the Angels he was setting up as his wincon. He did eventually cast it for 4 angels and I removed them, but my board was empty and he began fatesealing me, and the game was over - scoop. Sideboard in: Pulse, Finks, Fulminators, out: terminate, push, LtLH, forget what else really.
G2 was much faster as my opponent wasn't able to get a Jace down to set up his miracles. An early IoK let me take his Entreat the Angels, which was actually a hard choice vs. a Path when all I held was Goyf. I didn't want to let him draw into a Jace to set up the Miracle, so just let him path-ramp my Gofy to speed out a BBE later. I was able to get a clock down fast enough to win fairly efficiently before he could do much.
G3 was harder as he did stick a Jace, but it was essentially a 4 mana brainstorm/gain 3 life as I finished it off with a Goyf. He cast a non-miracled Terminus eventually to clear a few of my creatures, and had a Ghost Quarter on board which required me make some touch choices. He had previously Field of Ruined my single red source on board, and I held my mountain in hand already. I didn't want to play it into the GQ, so I didn't make a land drop with it until I could play it and cast my BBE with it, rather than have it stuck in hand due to no red sources. I eventually over-ran what he had in hand for a win. I felt like I made a few smart decisions about when to hold stuff in hand to play around what I knew he had even though it made my clock a potential turn or two slower. 2-1
R4 against mono-U Tron. This guy was a regular who plays this pet deck often. We didn't really have many real games. G1 he mulls to 5 with me on 6, but he is still able to get stuff going. He plays a 6-land Wurmcoil, but I am holding an KComm and a fatal push I had felt bad about drawing earlier. Turns out it was just what I needed to fight through with my 4 creatures on baord. Kcomm the Wurmcoil, fatal push the lifelinker, attach in, game. Sideboard in: Pulse, Mages, Grudges, out: probably the push, bolts, CoBru. G2 I mull to 5 and he plays a turn 4 Ugin, saying "skill game". I hold no pulse or dreadbore, so am forced to cast a BBE and pray. I cascade into a Thoughtseize which reveals a hand I'm not fighting through of various counterspells. He kills the BBE with Ugin, I don't draw anything to remove Ugin, concede. G3 he mulls to 5, I cascade into a Fulminator turn 4 to take him off one of his 2 lands, not really a game. 3-1
I'm not sure how I'd want to change the deck right now besides adding a 4th Fulminator Mage and probably shaving the Finks. Needs more testing. GW Valuetown seems like a terrible matchup and I'm not sure the best way to combat it. Not having a damnation felt awful as it's the ultimate safety valve against go-wide strategies with high toughness creatures. But I'm not sure a 1-of is really worth it especially as you can't cascade into it.
That is 100% best case scenario mentality, in my opinion. What would you CUT to run the Flayers, is the question?
I would never leave home without a basic mountain at this point in the metagame. It's saved my butt in only a small number of games already.
Meta is pretty wide open. I know there will be a lot of GBx midrange as it always is a presence at PPTQs at this store. Eldrazi Tron took 2 of the top 6 places this week, which is a new phenomenon there. I expect to see:
- GBx
- Eldrazi Tron
- Merfolk
- Affinity
- Hatebears
- Shadow
- Affinity
- Company decks
13 cards I'm 90% sure on for the board:
- 3x path
- 2x palm
- 4x Revelry
- 2x Bridge
- 2x Relic
-2x Searing Blood
-2x Kor Firewalker
-2x Stony Silence (this is really my least preferred option. I've never seen Lantern Control at a LGS and I think Searing Blood can help with Affinity along with shoring up small creature matchups)
- affinity
- company
- shadow
- jund/junk
- burn
I haven't seen Eldrazi Tron or Titanshift once in my local area but that doesn't mean it won't show up. Based on playing in my area a bit I know the list I posted will show up.
My thinking is some mix of the following:
- 3x Path
- 2x Deflecting Palm
- 3-4x Destructive Revelry
- 2x Ensnaring Bridge
- 2x Relic of Prog OR 2x Rest in Peace (OPINIONS?)
- 2-3x Kor Firewalker
- 2x Stony Silence
My thinking of the final 15 is:
- 3x path
- 2x palm
- 4x Revelry
- 2x Bridge
- 2x Relic
- 2x Stony