Thank you for disagreeing politely, it is much better than "wtf are you retarded?" response. around here, namely Nebraska, There are people who think they are better than they really are, and most people play control, which is wrong for most of them, but some of them actually play it well. and that is what the mana leaks are for, to explain; my playtest group is filled with all different sorts of players, and we have found in testing, and yes i did test the rune snags and cancel, that the 3 mana leaks were the best. it frees up the room to add the 4th Voidmage Prodigy, which is the Win vs Control, and it counters the important wrath that is waiting in their hand. I am sure that rune snag would be just as good, but if i were to play rune snag, i would want all 4 copies, and for this build i really don't want that.
If you are going to play a version of this, i would like to see your list, so i can test with/against it, and if it is better, i would definitely play it over mine. so far however this is one of the better decks that we have tested with, along with satanic sligh, it has the highest win percentages. I am very content with the build i have, but if i get a better one, i will surely play it.
No likes a douche bag, right?!:D Being a cocky/arrogant magic player is like winning an event in the Special Olympics........either way, you're still a retard.
I suppose I should add a little clarity to my initial statement. I wasn't questioning your use of Mana Leak as I ran it as a three of in the deck I took to regionals. I was only trying to argue (politely:p) the decks bread n butter is the mid-late game. I'm using Snag now, but ya have to run 4.....Mana Leak is definately better as a 3 of.
My version of the deck is more aggro-control relying on gaining control of the board before I lay the beats. Here's the old version(6-1-1, 14-5-1, 9th place Orlando Regionals), I'll list my post-kami build afterwards.
3x Dark Confidant
3x Ravenous Rats
3x Hand of Cruelty
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Dimir Cutpurse
2x Meloku the Clouded Mirror
4x Hinder
4x Remand
3x Spell Snare
3x Mana Leak
4x Last Gasp
3x Jitte
I tried to metagame the deck as best I could. Hand for Zoo and Husk drops, & Mortify too. Heartbeat hates discard to begin with. Shadow of Doubt was nice in that matchup too as well as anything else using land fetch or running SB extraction.
The new build has been tough fo me to settle on. TS addressed nearly every problem this deck was having in my early testing. The only real significant loss is Jitte, but only for the life gain to offset Bob. Hopefully the Prodigy will help keep Bob from becoming a liability. This is what I hope to pilot a few weekends from now.
4x Rune Snag
4x Remand
4x Last Gasp
3x Sudden Death
3x Psionic Blast
2x Mana Leak
SB
3x Cancel
3x Deathmark
3x Spell Snare
2x Sudden Spoiling
2x Shadow of Doubt
2x Bad Moon
Something about like that. I haven't been able to get much testing in as the last several weeks have been absolutely chaotic. Hopefully things will settle down so I can concentrate on tweaking/tuning.
I would like Stupor to fit in here somewhere, but with Hyppies, it isn't needed i don't think. I might find room for Stupor or Persecute in my board, but am unsure on both.
I'm going to have to politely disagree with your first statement. This deck loves the mid-late game. I piloted a version of this @ this year's regionals. It's surviving the first 4-5 turns that is critical, and why it's toughest matchups were against fast aggro, ie Zoo/Gruul/Husk. Survive the initial onslaught however, and your opponent will find it very difficult to keep up. Nearly all the creatures in the deck create CA. Drawing 2-4 extra cards per turn should allow you to destroy/counter anything your opponent attempts to play.
Persecute could make a case for a few slots in the SB to board in v. control. Anymore than that is probably overkill though as Hyppie and Cutpurse are both in the MD already. Then again your only running two of each so.....
I'll be playing U/x of some sort. Either U/B Fish or U/G Aggro. Maybe the latter since I played Fish @ regionals this year. Either way I need to get a playset of Blasts:rolleyes:
I usually use magicarsenal.com The prices are fairly cheap, although it seems they've increased thier prices a bit recently. Regardless, they still "kick back" a certain % of each order back to you in store credit.....depending on how much you've spent at the store. I think currently I get like 7% of every order back in store credit.
My only gripe /w your decklist are the signets. Not because they are bad to use in their own right, but because the synergy between them and Crime/Punishment is gonna suck if your playing Zoo, B/W aggro, or anything else with powerful 2 drops. Cut them for 4 Farseek and I think you're in business. Flagstones are pretty sweet & I also like 2x Mystic Enforcer. Just my 2 cents......
@ThaDeceptikon: My comments on Plague Sliver were directed to the original post, not yours...
Noted. My apologies then...
Mystery: if your opponent boards in Hivestone, all his creatures become slivers too. Each Sliver's abilitiy is globally shared with all other Slivers. Or did I misinterpret what you said?
Why would you play Plague Sliver in a Sliver deck?...
I was thinking of making a deck that's based on Telekenetic Sliver... Blue/Green, with Hivestone, Chord of Calling, and lots of token producers... I'm not sure if it would be competitive though...
I was pointing out that you OPPONENT will run one of the 3 cards SB if slivers gains even an inkling of popularity. Running Plague Sliver in a Sliver deck is stupid.....that much I thought was fairly obvious.
Problem is TS also has 3 cards that will make slivers unplayable IMO (maybe at an FNM but defiantely not in any significant tourney). 2 of which are artifacts and can be played SB in any deck. Hivestone, Venser's Sliver (Hivestone would likely see play over this), and Plague Sliver are NOT your friends!:)
Dude, they're the luckiest team in all of sports. Their luck will NEVER run out, because like it or not, they're the team of destiny.
I disagree. That may have been the case, but they lost the most clutch kicker in all the NFL, their defense is in shambles, and they have no solid #1 receiver. Throwing to your TE all day can only work for so long. Maroney is really the only bright spot I see on that team. Wait until they have to play a top 16 team in the league.
Cynical Squirrel: I don't think the Bears need the hype. Like it or not the Bears will probably win the NFC North, with your Vikes finishing 2nd. Yes the first two games were against garbage teams, but EVERYONE knows what the Bears D is a force to be reckoned with. The offense looks much more consistant this year too. One could only conclude that they're better than they were last year. That will scare a lot of teams come playoff time barring any major injuries of course.
Regarding the Panthers v. Vikings game: WTF WAS HE THINKING!!! Good for the both of us though as I took the Vikings in that game too.
PurpleD: The Panthers have to be one of the most injured teams in the NFL......No Smith, No Morgan, 4 outta their 5 OL starters are injured and replaced by backups, thus making it hard to gauge at this point. Obviously lacking Smith hurts their offense, but the O-line hasn't been giving adequate protection for the run or pass. Regarding the Saints: Looks like Drew's arm is fine. One guy to watch out for.....Marques Colston.....he's gonna be the next Antonio Gates (he's listed as a WR but he played TE @ Hofstra). What I've seen from Bush so far is about what I expected. Regarding the Raiders.......:cookie:........I'll take that if you don't mind.:D
Giants......ugh. One of my 2 losses so far this week. Mcnabb throws for 350 yds and Westbrook coughs up the ball at the most inopportune time and lets NY right back in the game. Ah well......kudos to the Giants for gutting it out.
Chargers playing D.........who'da thought. Merriman is just a MONSTER. I expected it from him, but not from the Charger secondary. BTW, River's didn't have a bad game last week. They just wanted to start slow.......BABY STEPS....so to speak. He was great today (albeit against a bunch of cupcakes).
Dun worry bout the Patriots....they've squeaked out 2 in a row.....their luck will run out soon enough.
Anyone want the kicking job in Atlanta? P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C-! Speaking of pathetic......Jake Plummer strikes again! Jay Cutler's gotta be lovin' this.
I thought the Giants looked pretty decent. Shockey finally looks pretty healthy, Buress had some great catches, and Eli wasn't too bad either. I would be willing to say the Giants are probably in the top 3 or 4 in the NFC. I'm thinking that the better Eli gets, the better the whole team will be. As others have stated, he has plenty of weapons around him, and if he can stay poised in the pocket, and eliminate some of the mental errors, the Giants could be great.
If by decent you mean having every momentum swinging play called back due to *insert random penalty here*. But I suppose I should give them the benefit of the doubt....it was the 1st game of the season. That was a bit of an issue for them last season too if I recall correctly. But I guess better that than Tiki from a few years ago who couldn't hold on to the ball. I'll be honest, the Giants will be a solid team, but I don't think they're quite "super bowl calibre" yet. I still have my doubts about Eli.....I just think he's a bit overrated........not bad player, but let's face it.....he'll never be Peyton. Shockey needs to stay healthy for 16+ games this season. Plex made some JAW DROPPING catches last week v. He also got called on several bone-headed penalties. And, above all else............GET A NEW COACH!!!! Sry, but Coughlin is about the only thing about the Giants that I despise. And your scedule is about as brutal as Cincy's.....both of which play in quite possibly the most difficult 2 divisions in the NFL. I might have even included the NFC South until I saw Tampa and Carolina's pathetic performances on Sunday.
Just my 2 cents......but what the hell do I know......I'm a Bills Fan.
P.S...First one to crack a joke gets disemboweled with a wooden spoon!!:D
EDIT: Regarding the Steelers, Parker established himself last week as a back who can carry the load on his own IMO. Their defense will be a force yet again this year. However, that being said, I think their success solely relies on the health Ben Roethlisberger. Quite a scary off season for Steeler Fan methinks. I really see Heath Miller establishing himself as a top 5 TE in the NFL. I followed him while he was @ Virginia and in my 20yrs of watching the game, I can't ever remember seeing a TE with the athletic ability this guy posesses. I think the Steelers offensive style will only further compliment that talent. I also believe Santonio Holmes will develop into a more than suitable replacement for Randle El.
Losing Gifts will hurt a bit, but so far TS is giving us Truth or Tale as well as 2 knights with SICK abilities....not too mention we can use Perilous Research if need be and any other card draw TS might give us (suspend Ancestral Recall anyone?....which might give us something to do on Turn 1).
No likes a douche bag, right?!:D Being a cocky/arrogant magic player is like winning an event in the Special Olympics........either way, you're still a retard.
I suppose I should add a little clarity to my initial statement. I wasn't questioning your use of Mana Leak as I ran it as a three of in the deck I took to regionals. I was only trying to argue (politely:p) the decks bread n butter is the mid-late game. I'm using Snag now, but ya have to run 4.....Mana Leak is definately better as a 3 of.
My version of the deck is more aggro-control relying on gaining control of the board before I lay the beats. Here's the old version(6-1-1, 14-5-1, 9th place Orlando Regionals), I'll list my post-kami build afterwards.
3x Dark Confidant
3x Ravenous Rats
3x Hand of Cruelty
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Dimir Cutpurse
2x Meloku the Clouded Mirror
4x Hinder
4x Remand
3x Spell Snare
3x Mana Leak
4x Last Gasp
3x Jitte
22 Land (/w 2x Quicksand for en-Vec's)
2x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2x Ink Eyes
2x Slay
2x Execute
2x Boseiju
2x Extraction
2x Shadow of Doubt
1x Persecute
I tried to metagame the deck as best I could. Hand for Zoo and Husk drops, & Mortify too. Heartbeat hates discard to begin with. Shadow of Doubt was nice in that matchup too as well as anything else using land fetch or running SB extraction.
The new build has been tough fo me to settle on. TS addressed nearly every problem this deck was having in my early testing. The only real significant loss is Jitte, but only for the life gain to offset Bob. Hopefully the Prodigy will help keep Bob from becoming a liability. This is what I hope to pilot a few weekends from now.
4x Dark Confidant
4x Voidmage Prodigy
4x Hypnotic Specter
3x Shadowmage Infiltrator
3x Dimir Cutpurse
4x Rune Snag
4x Remand
4x Last Gasp
3x Sudden Death
3x Psionic Blast
2x Mana Leak
SB
3x Cancel
3x Deathmark
3x Spell Snare
2x Sudden Spoiling
2x Shadow of Doubt
2x Bad Moon
Something about like that. I haven't been able to get much testing in as the last several weeks have been absolutely chaotic. Hopefully things will settle down so I can concentrate on tweaking/tuning.
I'm going to have to politely disagree with your first statement. This deck loves the mid-late game. I piloted a version of this @ this year's regionals. It's surviving the first 4-5 turns that is critical, and why it's toughest matchups were against fast aggro, ie Zoo/Gruul/Husk. Survive the initial onslaught however, and your opponent will find it very difficult to keep up. Nearly all the creatures in the deck create CA. Drawing 2-4 extra cards per turn should allow you to destroy/counter anything your opponent attempts to play.
Persecute could make a case for a few slots in the SB to board in v. control. Anymore than that is probably overkill though as Hyppie and Cutpurse are both in the MD already. Then again your only running two of each so.....
My only gripe /w your decklist are the signets. Not because they are bad to use in their own right, but because the synergy between them and Crime/Punishment is gonna suck if your playing Zoo, B/W aggro, or anything else with powerful 2 drops. Cut them for 4 Farseek and I think you're in business. Flagstones are pretty sweet & I also like 2x Mystic Enforcer. Just my 2 cents......
Noted. My apologies then...
Mystery: if your opponent boards in Hivestone, all his creatures become slivers too. Each Sliver's abilitiy is globally shared with all other Slivers. Or did I misinterpret what you said?
I was pointing out that you OPPONENT will run one of the 3 cards SB if slivers gains even an inkling of popularity. Running Plague Sliver in a Sliver deck is stupid.....that much I thought was fairly obvious.
I disagree. That may have been the case, but they lost the most clutch kicker in all the NFL, their defense is in shambles, and they have no solid #1 receiver. Throwing to your TE all day can only work for so long. Maroney is really the only bright spot I see on that team. Wait until they have to play a top 16 team in the league.
Cynical Squirrel: I don't think the Bears need the hype. Like it or not the Bears will probably win the NFC North, with your Vikes finishing 2nd. Yes the first two games were against garbage teams, but EVERYONE knows what the Bears D is a force to be reckoned with. The offense looks much more consistant this year too. One could only conclude that they're better than they were last year. That will scare a lot of teams come playoff time barring any major injuries of course.
Regarding the Panthers v. Vikings game:
PurpleD: The Panthers have to be one of the most injured teams in the NFL......No Smith, No Morgan, 4 outta their 5 OL starters are injured and replaced by backups, thus making it hard to gauge at this point. Obviously lacking Smith hurts their offense, but the O-line hasn't been giving adequate protection for the run or pass. Regarding the Saints: Looks like Drew's arm is fine. One guy to watch out for.....Marques Colston.....he's gonna be the next Antonio Gates (he's listed as a WR but he played TE @ Hofstra). What I've seen from Bush so far is about what I expected. Regarding the Raiders.......:cookie:........I'll take that if you don't mind.:D
Rex Grossman did look hella good today.
Giants......ugh. One of my 2 losses so far this week. Mcnabb throws for 350 yds and Westbrook coughs up the ball at the most inopportune time and lets NY right back in the game. Ah well......kudos to the Giants for gutting it out.
Chargers playing D.........who'da thought. Merriman is just a MONSTER. I expected it from him, but not from the Charger secondary. BTW, River's didn't have a bad game last week. They just wanted to start slow.......BABY STEPS....so to speak. He was great today (albeit against a bunch of cupcakes).
Dun worry bout the Patriots....they've squeaked out 2 in a row.....their luck will run out soon enough.
Anyone want the kicking job in Atlanta? P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C-! Speaking of pathetic......Jake Plummer strikes again! Jay Cutler's gotta be lovin' this.
If by decent you mean having every momentum swinging play called back due to *insert random penalty here*. But I suppose I should give them the benefit of the doubt....it was the 1st game of the season. That was a bit of an issue for them last season too if I recall correctly. But I guess better that than Tiki from a few years ago who couldn't hold on to the ball. I'll be honest, the Giants will be a solid team, but I don't think they're quite "super bowl calibre" yet. I still have my doubts about Eli.....I just think he's a bit overrated........not bad player, but let's face it.....he'll never be Peyton. Shockey needs to stay healthy for 16+ games this season. Plex made some JAW DROPPING catches last week v. He also got called on several bone-headed penalties. And, above all else............GET A NEW COACH!!!! Sry, but Coughlin is about the only thing about the Giants that I despise. And your scedule is about as brutal as Cincy's.....both of which play in quite possibly the most difficult 2 divisions in the NFL. I might have even included the NFC South until I saw Tampa and Carolina's pathetic performances on Sunday.
Just my 2 cents......but what the hell do I know......I'm a Bills Fan.
P.S...First one to crack a joke gets disemboweled with a wooden spoon!!:D
EDIT: Regarding the Steelers, Parker established himself last week as a back who can carry the load on his own IMO. Their defense will be a force yet again this year. However, that being said, I think their success solely relies on the health Ben Roethlisberger. Quite a scary off season for Steeler Fan methinks. I really see Heath Miller establishing himself as a top 5 TE in the NFL. I followed him while he was @ Virginia and in my 20yrs of watching the game, I can't ever remember seeing a TE with the athletic ability this guy posesses. I think the Steelers offensive style will only further compliment that talent. I also believe Santonio Holmes will develop into a more than suitable replacement for Randle El.
P.S. no need to be a ****. I didn't click the link because I assumed they were reffering to the Avenger art.
The "other" angel art.......anyone else thinking Serra may get a card since all the oldschool legends/planeswalkers are seeing print?