Can you explain exactly what happened? I'm curious as well because I've heard that Wear/Tear is the best tech so far and it seems promising. Maybe I'm wrong?
Combo player here - I agree with Lectrys. You could also try some Cheerios or Neobrand to go quicker than Hog Vine. Even Storm doesn't seem to bad.
I am a Titanshift player too, but haven't played it in a bit. You should check the FB group and 18damage.com. There are a few players there still having success with Titanshift. You have to do some changes to the main board and side board, but you can still do well. Remember, Titanshift is one of the most consistent Modern decks, so it has that as a plus. It's just not super quick, so you have to slow your opponents down long enough to get to your prime time to win.
Yeah, my takeaway was that it still managed to put 2 copies in the top 8 when people were warping their 75s to beat it. It had a target on its back unlike any deck I can think of since the Eye of Ugin ban, and still put 2 copies in the top 8. Deck's great, not totally solved yet, and has huge margins for error. I mean, this is a deck that can win from nowhere from an empty board. That's nuts.
I agree. This is how I see it.
Everyone prepared to go and try to beat Hogaak and it still got 2 copies in the top 8 and had great numbers. It may not be overwhelmingly winning, but warping sideboards and metagames is enough to get stuff banned, right?
I mean, if we can agree that the Turn 4 rule no longer exists, then sure, Modern is fine.
I know your opinion on Hogaak is not the majority here, but I do also think that something does need to get banned. I know I have not played it enough, but it seems to turn 3 pretty consistently without disruption. And often, disruption is not enough.
I actually kind of want to run some other decks, both for fun and also because I think that Humans is a good metagame choice right now. I am jamming as much Hogaak I can until Wizards tells me that I can't anymore.
congrats on your victory Foodchain. so you were able to attend the large tourney.
3 hogaak in top 9. still not very many.
Yep, Regran. 81 players.
I think players were ready for Hogaak. Opponents showed me the grave hate that they had. Also there weren't as many Hogaaks as a friend of mine (from beating me with Cheerios yesterday at Concealed Courtyard) thought there would be.
I literally wanted to run Humans, as I think it has a good matchup vs. Hogaak, but I think Hogaak's days are numbered and I want to jam as much of it as I can before it gets banned. It's a bit sad, as there are many other Horizons cards I want to try - W6 Jund, Seasoned Pyromancer decks, Unearth, Urza, and more. But I will be able to play those later on; Hogaak won't be around too long. It will dodge the next ban announcement. They can't ban it quicker than they did Eye of Ugin. That would be hilarious. But it should come some time after that, most likely the next one or definitely not more than 3 announcements.
Round 1 vs. Neobrand. Not much happened this round. I was scared my opponent was going to kill me the whole time, but he didn't play anything and I killed him on turn 3 and 4 with the mill. Missed on a single land or Simian Spirit Guide in game 1 and drew too many land in the last game. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. UR Phoenix. This was my most stressful and toughest round. He beat me in game 1 with turn 3 on the play 2 Phoenixes. He raced me and I had Hogaak, but could not find Altar. In the next game, I Lightning Axe a Thing and he spins his wheels while I crunch with many creatures. In the final game, it is somewhat close again, but turn 2 Thoughtseize let me know that he had double Bolt, Shenanigans, and something else. I tracked each card and made sure not to get close to Bolt range. I eventually found Vengevine and he had to Bolt some creatures. He had no shot at racing after this. Whew! 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Hogaak. In the first game, I sacrificed 2 creatures to blow up his Bridges. Then, the difference was that he had 3 Assassin's Trophy and 1 Surgical Extraction main board. He could not get his Vengevine back until it was too late. I found and then got MY Vengevine back and got to work. He literally needed to get Vengevine online and he would have had it. The next game looks bad for me with Plague Engineer on "Zombie." But I find 2 Bridge from Below on a Stitcher's Supplier and it allows me to use B each turn with Gravecrawler in the yard to get a bunch of 1/1 Zombies. We trade Hogaaks and keep bringing them back, but my 8 Zombies from 2 turns of using the 4-5 lands I had with Gravecrawler allowed me to swing for lethal as he was too low before he had stabilized with Plague Engineer. Missed a Vengevine trigger here too after casting Gravecrawler 4 times, but got it the next turn casting Gravecrawler 5 times. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. UW Control. I mull three 0 land hands. It was London Mulligan this tournament. We both get stuck on land, but he does turn 4 Vendilion Clique into Field of Ruin, double Path to Exile Hogaak and Vengevine. Then he does Timely Reinforcements when I put a bunch of 2/1s out. Then he does Cryptic Command into swing with Colonnade and that same Vendilion Clique, which had been pecking away at me. In the next game, he went Celestial Purge on Hogaak, so I sacrificed him. But I didn't have enough gas to get him next turn, so I Looted away Wispmare, thinking he wouldn't Celestial Purge if he had Rest in Peace on turn 2, right? Nope, turn 3 Rest in Peace, then Timely Reinforcements for my small dudes, then Supreme Verdict, they are all gone. 4 swings from a Colonnade later, I'm dead. He absolutely smashed me with a deck that has a rough matchup vs. Hogaak. 0-2.
Round 5 vs. Grixis Shadow. In the first game, I keep a greedy Looting 2 Vengevine into double dudes, but he turn 1 Thoughtseizes me, taking Looting. I struggle, but his Shadows come a bit late, as I am able to get a bunch of 2/1s and then I get Bridge from Below, sac outlet, and lands with Bloodghasts. When I sac EoT, he scoops. In the next game, I go super wide with Hogaak, Vengevines, and 2/1s. 2-0.
Round 6 vs. Titanshift. In the first game, he ramps until he can get Prime Time if it's his last card. It won't kill Hogaak though, so he needs some poor draws from me and good ones from him. Alas, he does NOT have Prime Time. It's a super late Relic of Progenitus, which cantrips him into scooping since he only had 5 mana left. In the next game, I take a long time playing. I made a mistake on TWO Vengevine triggers within 3 turns of each other, but go for milling him as much as I can since he has 1 card. If that card is Scapeshift, I lose the next turn, so I go all out. I mill 3 Valakut and 3 Scapeshift, among other cards. He has 9 cards left. I have 3. Double Damping Sphere slowed me down, but I was able to draw Ingot Chewer and he scooped since he didn't have win-cons left. He had went for Anger of the Gods, but I milled him for 8 in response. 2-0.
Round 7 vs. RG Loam. We ID'd into the top 8. I didn't know what he was on, but I found out in the top 8. 0-0-3.
Top 8 vs. RG Loam. There's not much to say here. I kill him on turn 3 and see no hate - just some cycling. I don't know what's going on, but he keeps on 1 land in the next game with Ravenous Trap, which gets Looting, Ghast, Vine on turn 1. But he struggles on lands and I rebuild and crunch through. He said he had 28 lands, so he honestly should have drawn land some time this game. He eventually drew a Forest and played Tarmogoyf, but I then killed him with Hogaak, Carrion Feeders, and Gravecrawler, Bloodghasts. 2-0.'
Top 4 vs Dredge. We split the top 4, so he scooped to me. 2-0.
Finals vs. Amulet. We split the top 4, so he scooped to me. It was 10:30 at night, a grueling 7 rounds + top 8, so we were ready to go home. 2-0.
We top 4 split, so they conceded to me for PW points and accounting. So I guess I have to settle for top 4,
23-7-1 now with the deck. Not quite the 14-2 I am with Neobrand, but pretty steady.
Just won a 81 person tournament in the Philippines with Hogaak. Here's how my matches went - my opponent draws hate and it slows them down. I eek out a win. They don't draw hate and they get smushed to the ground. I did lose a round to UW Control (LMAO) when I mulled to 4, then he turn 4 Vendilion Clique into Timely Reinforcements into Cryptic Command AND Surgical Extraction. I lost on turn 7 to a swinging Colonnade and that Vendilion Clique. Then I lost game 2 to Celestial Purge into Rest in Peace into Supreme Verdict into Cryptic Command into 4 turns of Colonnade swinging. That was my worst round. This deck is certainly unacceptable.
BTW, 3 Hogaak in the top 9. This is what I remembered.
1. Hogaak
2. Amulet with Karn
3. Dredge
4. UR Phoenix
5. Humans
6. RG Loam
7. Hogaak
8. UW Control
9. Hogaak at 5-1-1 on breakers (I played him in Round 3)
Wait a minute, just after the deck gets released and abused and is obviously broken and I point that out most of you call me a flamer or a troll, and now you are all saying it should get banned. LOL.
Next time, learn from the master...
Then I make 1 mistake out of 10 and people call me bad because I have a 10% failure rate. Suuuure :).
I personally never said any of this, so it must be someone else. I admit that the deck should have somethings banned. It took me 20 matches to figure that out, even if I had a feeling right away.
Wait a minute, just after the deck gets released and abused and is obviously broken and I point that out most of you call me a flamer or a troll, and now you are all saying it should get banned. LOL.
Next time, learn from the master...
Then I make 1 mistake out of 10 and people call me bad because I have a 10% failure rate. Suuuure :).
You have predicted and/or called for bans/nerfs on Tron cards, ETemple, Chalice, Past in Flames, Traverse the Ulvenwald, Dredge, and now Hogaak Bridge. That's one hit in Dredge, five misses (Tron cards, Temple, Chalice, PiF, Traverse), and one ommision (no KCI). If Hogaak gets banned, you'll be 2 for 7 or 2 for 8, depending on how you score. This is exactly what I was referring to when I talk about throwing darts at a board. If you throw enough, you are bound to hit and then give acclaim to predictive skills when the record clearly shows a less flattering hit rate.
Again, Hogaak may be capital B Busted. It may be bannable. But that doesn't mean we change proven ban prediction methods because the hysteria and alarm was right one time in 10+.
What is my record?
(it must be terrible; I predicted the Stoneforge Unban every B & R announcement since 2013 until the last 2 when I did NOT predict it anymore cuz I got tired)
P.S. - Are you playing a lot now? I know you like some Cheerios, which seems pretty well placed in this meta.
I played in a 18 person tournament today. New place for me again. Had a rough go around. (they did London mulligan, but I didn't take advantage enough)
Round 1 vs. Whir Prison. I had been playing GB Rock vs. his RW Taxes before the tournament for fun. Then we got paired. In the first game, I'm scared of turn 2 Chalice of the Void after I turn 2 Altar of Dementia. I kill him the next turn after he doesn't play that. In the next game, he had Grafdigger's Cage, but I had double Bridge from Below and double Insolent Neonate, so I created a bunch of Zombies and smashed through. Had he gotten Ensnaring Bridge, it would have slowed me down. I had Shenanigans somewhere in the deck. But he didn't get it and the Zombies pulled their weight. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Cheerios. He plays Marsh Flats. I assume some deck I can beat. Stitcher's Supplier, mill 3 land. He does Sram and draws 4 cards right away. I play Altar of Dementia and set up for next turn, but I don't have it for sure. He plays Puresteel Paladin and ends the game with triple Retract. In the next game, he got stuck on 1 land. He had Leyline of Sanctity, but I had Wispmare. It didn't matter. I don't find Altar of Dementia, so I kill him with Zombies and Hogaak. In the final game, he kills me on turn 3 again. I tried a mulligan, but couldn't find Lightning Axe or Thoughtseize. Leyline of Sanctity stops Thoughtseize anyway, so I was wary of that. 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Grixis Shadow. I thought for sure I'd play against the Neoform player, but it turned out he lost because of a poor Judge call. He was 0-2. In game 1, he puts a bunch of stuff on the field while I just have non blockers. But I draw Altar of Dementia and get there before I die a horrible death to 2 Death's Shadow, a Snapcaster Mage, and a Seasoned Pyromancer. In the next game, he has Leyline of the Void into Thoughtseize into Gurmag Angler into Plague Engineer. Bye bye double Gravecrawler and Stitcher's Supplier. I only have 2 Bloodghasts against a Leyline of the Void, a Plague Engineer, and a Gurmag Angler. In the final game, I played too safe. I played around Surgical Extraction by doing Faithless Looting on turn 2 to discard 2 Bloodghasts with Fetchland in hand. But he had Stubborn Denial. My thought is that he sided them out since it's only good vs. Altar of Dementia ... AND players who Loot without playing their land first. Doh! This cost me and even though I get a big board, he has Gurmag Angler and Death's Shadow on the turn before lethal. I can only swing him down to 1 if he doesn't block, but then I die on the swing back. So I swing him to 4. He untaps and attacks only with Death's Shadow. I assume he's waiting for a bad block so I block with Zombie token and Stitcher's Supplier - my only 2 blockers. He does Temur Battle Rage and it's over. He got stuck on 1 land for a bit, but my draws were lands and a Bloodghast while I kept with double Gravecrawler, hoping to hedge against grave hate. This one surely was a punt. 1-2.
Round 4 vs. BW Tokens. In the first game, he has a choice to discard Insolent Neonate, Bloodghast, or Bridge from Below. Yes, I should have mulliganed. I end up getting there after missing my first land drop, but finding Hogaak. He goes for Path to Exile, but I have Carrion Feeder. In fact, I drew all 4 Altar of Dementia and 3 Hogaaks this game. So it was slow. In the next game, I do Stitcher's Supplier, putting 2 Bridge from Below in the yard. I draw Faithless Looting and then put another one in and then start getting a hoard of Zombies to turn 4 kill him. I kept the hand because Godless Shrine and Wispmare, but he actually really didn't have grave hate. 2-0.
Round 5 vs. GB Midrange. In the first game, my hand was iffy. I drew 4 Carrion Feeder and an Altar of Dementia, which got Assassin's Trophied. I lose. In the next game, he does turn 1 Forest Nihil Spellbomb, exile my Faithless Looting, Vengevine, and Bloodghast. I slow roll and am waiting for him to cast a creature, any creature, so I can Lightning Axe, discarding Vengevine, play 2 creatures and get it back. He doesn't and eventually I draw enough to get Hogaak to infinite mill him. In the final game, I have drawn 3 Carrion Feeder. I tell myself if I draw the 4th like Game 1, I will scoop on the spot. Instead I draw Faithless Looting and put myself in a good spot until Kalitas comes down on turn 4. Now, Altar of Dementia is nearly useless. He makes a big mistake attacking, trying to get through for lethal, but I block everything to not die to Collective Brutality. I'm at 4. His Kalitas died to Hogaak, putting him at 24. He does Damnation. I mill myself 8 cards, then let the other 5 creatures die to get 5 Zombies. The next turn I go off and mill him for lethal. He needed to do Damnation before Kalitas died to Hogaak. I think he got mixed up because I nearly let 1 of his 2 Zombies through to put me to 2 life. When I realized it would put me to 2, I took it back, something I can't do at Comp REL. I feel a bit badly about this one, but I should know better and make the right blocks. Also didn't notice that I had a Zombie to block with as well since it was far away (my fault) from my other blocking creatures. He was a good sport about it. He showed me 2 Extirpate, 3 Nihil Spellbomb, 1 Grafdigger's Cage, and something else that I forgot against me. Got unlucky with drawing the hate, especially using 3 Assassin's Trophy before I finally got Hogaak aboard. No more removal... I guess he could have drawn the 4th or Maelstrom Pulse... 2-1.
To IdSurge and others who said that Bridge from Below needed to go - you guys were right. I was partially wrong about this one, mostly because my Bridges usually were near the bottom of the deck or stranded in my hand usually.
I now realize that BOTH Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis AND Bridge from Below need to go. I saw one of those nutty Bridge from Below draws with an opponent who named Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis with Meddling Mage. No problem, 3 Bridge from Below in the yard, Gravecrawler, Carrion Feeder, fetch land, Bloodghasts. 12 Zombies, GGs. I hadn't seen this type of draw because I had done slightly fewer than 20 matches with Hog Vine in tournament play and 20 matches in play testing, mostly against Humans.
*Eldrazi Winter definitely was worse, even if I enjoyed it more. You simply cannot beat that deck without losing to the rest of the meta. (why there is a rest of the meta remains a mystery to me) Hogaak CAN be beaten. It just skews main boards and side boards too much and creates even more of a goldfish environment.
**Umezawa's Jitte does not need to be unbanned. Hogaak and hopefully Bridge will eventually get banned. Please don't use this argument. It's funny that Ross Merriam believes that Jitte should be unbanned, but not Stoneforge Mystic. WTF?!?!?! Jitte further pushes people to play their's first to win creature matches (much of Modern) or play (non creature) Combo to avoid losing to those. I played during Jitte Standard. I know a lot has changed. I still think Jitte would be too much, close to what Punishing Fire does, except it is colorless.
yeah lyra and baneslayer are often paired up, but both showing up in sideboards has been less frequent as of late. i personally also benched baneslayer and put resto angel in its place and it has been surprisingly effective.
thats not to say the card is obsolete or anything so anyone who bought baneslayers are likely to hold onto the card as its still a solid option to play if the meta permits. so id chalk any price increase to the total supply out there just shrinking naturally.
i love me some baneslayer though. i do want to pick up an m10 foil at some point cause the art is awesome, but damn is my wallet tired from buying all the crap i needed from WAR and MH1 to update my decks.
Same. I've wanted a foil Baneslayer Angel ever since I saw someone sell 4 to a vendor for $100 each just for the vendor to flip them for $150 to an unknown dude. (during Standard obv.)
Iconic card - almost pulled the trigger years ago when my friend pulled one in a Walmart pack that his girlfriend bought for him (can't search packs for foils at Walmart). I just can't justify $28 for a card I "like," but won't play. Maybe some time...
I do think in theory that Nature's Claims and Ass Trophy are better. I may try them soon. My 2 spot of Cathartic Reunions haven't been holding their water, but I haven't seen a better replacement (in theory of course). I actually DO play 2 Green sources in double Gemstone Mine, but they are nearly impossible to find.
When I lost game 2 to the mirror, I had 2 Vengevine in hand when we both had Leyline of the Void out, but only 1 Gemstone Mine. That game would have been won if I had a single Green source to fetch. But I'm scared of diluting Red sources. Don't wanna have that Overgrown Tomb/Faithless Looting hand. In game 3, I also had double Vengevine in hand in a similar game (I did not have Leyline, but he mulled to 5), but I won on the back of Gravecrawler and Wispmare beats.
*Also I should not be afraid to default to Nature's Claim. That single card has won me more matches of Modern magic than any other single card. I have played a HUGE variety of decks and Nature's Claim has been in nearly every one that supported Green. I often wonder what Modern would be for me without Nature's Claim. (I've done all kinds of things with it. I've Nature's Claimed my own Ethereal Armor when a Burn opponent cast Deflecting Palm, then won a few turns later. I've used it as removal obviously. I've hit my own Rancor and done disgusting things against Burn with it - you Destructive Revelry my Aura, no I Nature's Claim it.)
It had 189 players. (Living in California, I was unable to go.) Jody Keith and Aaron Barich (of SCG Open fame) were in the top 8 and the top 16 from what I heard.
He beat Burn in the finals.
1. Hogaak
2. Burn
3. Jody Keith on Urza Thopter Sword
4. GB Rock
5. Humans
6. Red Phoenix
7. Infect
8. Whir Prison w/ Karn, the Great Creator
I saw the info on fb, along with the twitch.tv coverage (I just watched the top 4 and a little before.)
So you're saying that those of with the deck should play as much as possible online before the B&R date. Well if I must, I can take one for the team. For the sake of the format.
That's what I did during Eldrazi Winter, jamming UR Eldrazi like a madman. I literally played something like 5-6 times per week at minimum. I knew I was on borrowed time.
This deck is different. It can be beaten and you see players move to goldfish decks like Cheerios (*wink ktkenshinx), Storm, Devoted Devastation, Infect, and other decks as well. But it is definitely NOT fine to warp the meta so much. Battle of the sideboards = your Leyline of the Void vs. my Wispmare/Assassin's Trophy/Nature's Claim... This deck is very different from Eldrazi, where you can metagame vs. Eldrazi and have a 50/50 matchup with them, but you lose to everything else. Meanwhile Eldrazi still has a 50/50 matchup with you and 80/20 elsewhere. What would you choose?
*I'm also very happy that my buddy won the "win a Mustang" tournament down in Alabama with Hogaak. That if the definition of "getting your money's worth." So far for me with Hogaak, I've gotten around $90 worth of prizes, but the Hogaaks cost me $80, so I have a long way to go to get my money's worth, especially considering store credit and gas prices TO tournaments.
With most decks you can ignore what they are doing because you're faster. Outside of that, you bring in destruction for their HATE vs. you. If their deck is potentially quicker, like Storm, Infect, or Devoted Devastation, then you bring in Lightning Axe or in your case, Darkblast for the latter two. In my opinion, Silent Gravestone is not that good because it stops what, Surgical Extraction? You can usually win through 1-2 of these anyway. It's the Leylines and Ravenous Traps that get sticky.
Outside of that, I don't think there are SB guides. You can probably look up sideboard guides for Bridge Vine BEFORE Hogaak and the siding would be similar. Even siding with Dredge would be similar, so you can look up those. The rest is mostly done on instinct and experience with graveyard based decks vs. non graveyard based decks.
I usually take out Bloodghasts and 1 Gravecrawler when I side things in. You probably can get away with siding Vengevine(s) as well if the graveyard hate is turn 0 or super quick and affects the whole yard.
A Neoform or Eldritch Evolution off a Birds for Yixlid Jailer should be fast enough to keep up with Hogaak. It's a toolbox sort of shell so should have other applications as well. Pair with some counter magic to protect the Jailer, drop some decent beaters and it isn't the worst plan. A hard counter should put some pressure on the meta game share.
I am a Titanshift player too, but haven't played it in a bit. You should check the FB group and 18damage.com. There are a few players there still having success with Titanshift. You have to do some changes to the main board and side board, but you can still do well. Remember, Titanshift is one of the most consistent Modern decks, so it has that as a plus. It's just not super quick, so you have to slow your opponents down long enough to get to your prime time to win.
I agree. This is how I see it.
Everyone prepared to go and try to beat Hogaak and it still got 2 copies in the top 8 and had great numbers. It may not be overwhelmingly winning, but warping sideboards and metagames is enough to get stuff banned, right?
I know your opinion on Hogaak is not the majority here, but I do also think that something does need to get banned. I know I have not played it enough, but it seems to turn 3 pretty consistently without disruption. And often, disruption is not enough.
I actually kind of want to run some other decks, both for fun and also because I think that Humans is a good metagame choice right now. I am jamming as much Hogaak I can until Wizards tells me that I can't anymore.
Yep, Regran. 81 players.
I think players were ready for Hogaak. Opponents showed me the grave hate that they had. Also there weren't as many Hogaaks as a friend of mine (from beating me with Cheerios yesterday at Concealed Courtyard) thought there would be.
I literally wanted to run Humans, as I think it has a good matchup vs. Hogaak, but I think Hogaak's days are numbered and I want to jam as much of it as I can before it gets banned. It's a bit sad, as there are many other Horizons cards I want to try - W6 Jund, Seasoned Pyromancer decks, Unearth, Urza, and more. But I will be able to play those later on; Hogaak won't be around too long. It will dodge the next ban announcement. They can't ban it quicker than they did Eye of Ugin. That would be hilarious. But it should come some time after that, most likely the next one or definitely not more than 3 announcements.
Round 1 vs. Neobrand. Not much happened this round. I was scared my opponent was going to kill me the whole time, but he didn't play anything and I killed him on turn 3 and 4 with the mill. Missed on a single land or Simian Spirit Guide in game 1 and drew too many land in the last game. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. UR Phoenix. This was my most stressful and toughest round. He beat me in game 1 with turn 3 on the play 2 Phoenixes. He raced me and I had Hogaak, but could not find Altar. In the next game, I Lightning Axe a Thing and he spins his wheels while I crunch with many creatures. In the final game, it is somewhat close again, but turn 2 Thoughtseize let me know that he had double Bolt, Shenanigans, and something else. I tracked each card and made sure not to get close to Bolt range. I eventually found Vengevine and he had to Bolt some creatures. He had no shot at racing after this. Whew! 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Hogaak. In the first game, I sacrificed 2 creatures to blow up his Bridges. Then, the difference was that he had 3 Assassin's Trophy and 1 Surgical Extraction main board. He could not get his Vengevine back until it was too late. I found and then got MY Vengevine back and got to work. He literally needed to get Vengevine online and he would have had it. The next game looks bad for me with Plague Engineer on "Zombie." But I find 2 Bridge from Below on a Stitcher's Supplier and it allows me to use B each turn with Gravecrawler in the yard to get a bunch of 1/1 Zombies. We trade Hogaaks and keep bringing them back, but my 8 Zombies from 2 turns of using the 4-5 lands I had with Gravecrawler allowed me to swing for lethal as he was too low before he had stabilized with Plague Engineer. Missed a Vengevine trigger here too after casting Gravecrawler 4 times, but got it the next turn casting Gravecrawler 5 times. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. UW Control. I mull three 0 land hands. It was London Mulligan this tournament. We both get stuck on land, but he does turn 4 Vendilion Clique into Field of Ruin, double Path to Exile Hogaak and Vengevine. Then he does Timely Reinforcements when I put a bunch of 2/1s out. Then he does Cryptic Command into swing with Colonnade and that same Vendilion Clique, which had been pecking away at me.
Round 5 vs. Grixis Shadow. In the first game, I keep a greedy Looting 2 Vengevine into double dudes, but he turn 1 Thoughtseizes me, taking Looting. I struggle, but his Shadows come a bit late, as I am able to get a bunch of 2/1s and then I get Bridge from Below, sac outlet, and lands with Bloodghasts. When I sac EoT, he scoops. In the next game, I go super wide with Hogaak, Vengevines, and 2/1s. 2-0.
Round 6 vs. Titanshift. In the first game, he ramps until he can get Prime Time if it's his last card. It won't kill Hogaak though, so he needs some poor draws from me and good ones from him. Alas, he does NOT have Prime Time. It's a super late Relic of Progenitus, which cantrips him into scooping since he only had 5 mana left. In the next game, I take a long time playing. I made a mistake on TWO Vengevine triggers within 3 turns of each other, but go for milling him as much as I can since he has 1 card. If that card is Scapeshift, I lose the next turn, so I go all out. I mill 3 Valakut and 3 Scapeshift, among other cards. He has 9 cards left. I have 3. Double Damping Sphere slowed me down, but I was able to draw Ingot Chewer and he scooped since he didn't have win-cons left. He had went for Anger of the Gods, but I milled him for 8 in response. 2-0.
Round 7 vs. RG Loam. We ID'd into the top 8. I didn't know what he was on, but I found out in the top 8. 0-0-3.
Top 8 vs. RG Loam. There's not much to say here. I kill him on turn 3 and see no hate - just some cycling. I don't know what's going on, but he keeps on 1 land in the next game with Ravenous Trap, which gets Looting, Ghast, Vine on turn 1. But he struggles on lands and I rebuild and crunch through. He said he had 28 lands, so he honestly should have drawn land some time this game. He eventually drew a Forest and played Tarmogoyf, but I then killed him with Hogaak, Carrion Feeders, and Gravecrawler, Bloodghasts. 2-0.'
Top 4 vs Dredge. We split the top 4, so he scooped to me. 2-0.
Finals vs. Amulet. We split the top 4, so he scooped to me. It was 10:30 at night, a grueling 7 rounds + top 8, so we were ready to go home.
We top 4 split, so they conceded to me for PW points and accounting. So I guess I have to settle for top 4,
23-7-1 now with the deck. Not quite the 14-2 I am with Neobrand, but pretty steady.
BTW, 3 Hogaak in the top 9. This is what I remembered.
1. Hogaak
2. Amulet with Karn
3. Dredge
4. UR Phoenix
5. Humans
6. RG Loam
7. Hogaak
8. UW Control
9. Hogaak at 5-1-1 on breakers (I played him in Round 3)
I personally never said any of this, so it must be someone else. I admit that the deck should have somethings banned. It took me 20 matches to figure that out, even if I had a feeling right away.
What is my record?
(it must be terrible; I predicted the Stoneforge Unban every B & R announcement since 2013 until the last 2 when I did NOT predict it anymore cuz I got tired)
P.S. - Are you playing a lot now? I know you like some Cheerios, which seems pretty well placed in this meta.
Round 1 vs. Whir Prison. I had been playing GB Rock vs. his RW Taxes before the tournament for fun. Then we got paired. In the first game, I'm scared of turn 2 Chalice of the Void after I turn 2 Altar of Dementia. I kill him the next turn after he doesn't play that. In the next game, he had Grafdigger's Cage, but I had double Bridge from Below and double Insolent Neonate, so I created a bunch of Zombies and smashed through. Had he gotten Ensnaring Bridge, it would have slowed me down. I had Shenanigans somewhere in the deck. But he didn't get it and the Zombies pulled their weight. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Cheerios. He plays Marsh Flats. I assume some deck I can beat. Stitcher's Supplier, mill 3 land. He does Sram and draws 4 cards right away. I play Altar of Dementia and set up for next turn, but I don't have it for sure. He plays Puresteel Paladin and ends the game with triple Retract. In the next game, he got stuck on 1 land. He had Leyline of Sanctity, but I had Wispmare. It didn't matter. I don't find Altar of Dementia, so I kill him with Zombies and Hogaak. In the final game, he kills me on turn 3 again. I tried a mulligan, but couldn't find Lightning Axe or Thoughtseize. Leyline of Sanctity stops Thoughtseize anyway, so I was wary of that. 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Grixis Shadow. I thought for sure I'd play against the Neoform player, but it turned out he lost because of a poor Judge call. He was 0-2. In game 1, he puts a bunch of stuff on the field while I just have non blockers. But I draw Altar of Dementia and get there before I die a horrible death to 2 Death's Shadow, a Snapcaster Mage, and a Seasoned Pyromancer. In the next game, he has Leyline of the Void into Thoughtseize into Gurmag Angler into Plague Engineer. Bye bye double Gravecrawler and Stitcher's Supplier. I only have 2 Bloodghasts against a Leyline of the Void, a Plague Engineer, and a Gurmag Angler. In the final game, I played too safe. I played around Surgical Extraction by doing Faithless Looting on turn 2 to discard 2 Bloodghasts with Fetchland in hand. But he had Stubborn Denial. My thought is that he sided them out since it's only good vs. Altar of Dementia ... AND players who Loot without playing their land first. Doh! This cost me and even though I get a big board, he has Gurmag Angler and Death's Shadow on the turn before lethal. I can only swing him down to 1 if he doesn't block, but then I die on the swing back. So I swing him to 4. He untaps and attacks only with Death's Shadow. I assume he's waiting for a bad block so I block with Zombie token and Stitcher's Supplier - my only 2 blockers. He does Temur Battle Rage and it's over. He got stuck on 1 land for a bit, but my draws were lands and a Bloodghast while I kept with double Gravecrawler, hoping to hedge against grave hate. This one surely was a punt. 1-2.
Round 4 vs. BW Tokens. In the first game, he has a choice to discard Insolent Neonate, Bloodghast, or Bridge from Below. Yes, I should have mulliganed. I end up getting there after missing my first land drop, but finding Hogaak. He goes for Path to Exile, but I have Carrion Feeder. In fact, I drew all 4 Altar of Dementia and 3 Hogaaks this game. So it was slow. In the next game, I do Stitcher's Supplier, putting 2 Bridge from Below in the yard. I draw Faithless Looting and then put another one in and then start getting a hoard of Zombies to turn 4 kill him. I kept the hand because Godless Shrine and Wispmare, but he actually really didn't have grave hate. 2-0.
Round 5 vs. GB Midrange. In the first game, my hand was iffy. I drew 4 Carrion Feeder and an Altar of Dementia, which got Assassin's Trophied. I lose. In the next game, he does turn 1 Forest Nihil Spellbomb, exile my Faithless Looting, Vengevine, and Bloodghast. I slow roll and am waiting for him to cast a creature, any creature, so I can Lightning Axe, discarding Vengevine, play 2 creatures and get it back. He doesn't and eventually I draw enough to get Hogaak to infinite mill him. In the final game, I have drawn 3 Carrion Feeder. I tell myself if I draw the 4th like Game 1, I will scoop on the spot. Instead I draw Faithless Looting and put myself in a good spot until Kalitas comes down on turn 4. Now, Altar of Dementia is nearly useless. He makes a big mistake attacking, trying to get through for lethal, but I block everything to not die to Collective Brutality. I'm at 4. His Kalitas died to Hogaak, putting him at 24. He does Damnation. I mill myself 8 cards, then let the other 5 creatures die to get 5 Zombies. The next turn I go off and mill him for lethal. He needed to do Damnation before Kalitas died to Hogaak. I think he got mixed up because I nearly let 1 of his 2 Zombies through to put me to 2 life. When I realized it would put me to 2, I took it back, something I can't do at Comp REL. I feel a bit badly about this one, but I should know better and make the right blocks. Also didn't notice that I had a Zombie to block with as well since it was far away (my fault) from my other blocking creatures. He was a good sport about it. He showed me 2 Extirpate, 3 Nihil Spellbomb, 1 Grafdigger's Cage, and something else that I forgot against me. Got unlucky with drawing the hate, especially using 3 Assassin's Trophy before I finally got Hogaak aboard. No more removal... I guess he could have drawn the 4th or Maelstrom Pulse... 2-1.
I go 3-2.
I now realize that BOTH Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis AND Bridge from Below need to go. I saw one of those nutty Bridge from Below draws with an opponent who named Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis with Meddling Mage. No problem, 3 Bridge from Below in the yard, Gravecrawler, Carrion Feeder, fetch land, Bloodghasts. 12 Zombies, GGs. I hadn't seen this type of draw because I had done slightly fewer than 20 matches with Hog Vine in tournament play and 20 matches in play testing, mostly against Humans.
*Eldrazi Winter definitely was worse, even if I enjoyed it more. You simply cannot beat that deck without losing to the rest of the meta. (why there is a rest of the meta remains a mystery to me) Hogaak CAN be beaten. It just skews main boards and side boards too much and creates even more of a goldfish environment.
**Umezawa's Jitte does not need to be unbanned. Hogaak and hopefully Bridge will eventually get banned. Please don't use this argument. It's funny that Ross Merriam believes that Jitte should be unbanned, but not Stoneforge Mystic. WTF?!?!?! Jitte further pushes people to play their's first to win creature matches (much of Modern) or play (non creature) Combo to avoid losing to those. I played during Jitte Standard. I know a lot has changed. I still think Jitte would be too much, close to what Punishing Fire does, except it is colorless.
Same. I've wanted a foil Baneslayer Angel ever since I saw someone sell 4 to a vendor for $100 each just for the vendor to flip them for $150 to an unknown dude.
Iconic card - almost pulled the trigger years ago when my friend pulled one in a Walmart pack that his girlfriend bought for him (can't search packs for foils at Walmart). I just can't justify $28 for a card I "like," but won't play. Maybe some time...
When I lost game 2 to the mirror, I had 2 Vengevine in hand when we both had Leyline of the Void out, but only 1 Gemstone Mine. That game would have been won if I had a single Green source to fetch. But I'm scared of diluting Red sources. Don't wanna have that Overgrown Tomb/Faithless Looting hand. In game 3, I also had double Vengevine in hand in a similar game (I did not have Leyline, but he mulled to 5), but I won on the back of Gravecrawler and Wispmare beats.
*Also I should not be afraid to default to Nature's Claim. That single card has won me more matches of Modern magic than any other single card. I have played a HUGE variety of decks and Nature's Claim has been in nearly every one that supported Green. I often wonder what Modern would be for me without Nature's Claim. (I've done all kinds of things with it. I've Nature's Claimed my own Ethereal Armor when a Burn opponent cast Deflecting Palm, then won a few turns later. I've used it as removal obviously. I've hit my own Rancor and done disgusting things against Burn with it - you Destructive Revelry my Aura, no I Nature's Claim it.)
He beat Burn in the finals.
1. Hogaak
2. Burn
3. Jody Keith on Urza Thopter Sword
4. GB Rock
5. Humans
6. Red Phoenix
7. Infect
8. Whir Prison w/ Karn, the Great Creator
I saw the info on fb, along with the twitch.tv coverage (I just watched the top 4 and a little before.)
That's what I did during Eldrazi Winter, jamming UR Eldrazi like a madman. I literally played something like 5-6 times per week at minimum. I knew I was on borrowed time.
This deck is different. It can be beaten and you see players move to goldfish decks like Cheerios (*wink ktkenshinx), Storm, Devoted Devastation, Infect, and other decks as well. But it is definitely NOT fine to warp the meta so much. Battle of the sideboards = your Leyline of the Void vs. my Wispmare/Assassin's Trophy/Nature's Claim... This deck is very different from Eldrazi, where you can metagame vs. Eldrazi and have a 50/50 matchup with them, but you lose to everything else. Meanwhile Eldrazi still has a 50/50 matchup with you and 80/20 elsewhere. What would you choose?
*I'm also very happy that my buddy won the "win a Mustang" tournament down in Alabama with Hogaak. That if the definition of "getting your money's worth." So far for me with Hogaak, I've gotten around $90 worth of prizes, but the Hogaaks cost me $80, so I have a long way to go to get my money's worth, especially considering store credit and gas prices TO tournaments.
Outside of that, I don't think there are SB guides. You can probably look up sideboard guides for Bridge Vine BEFORE Hogaak and the siding would be similar. Even siding with Dredge would be similar, so you can look up those. The rest is mostly done on instinct and experience with graveyard based decks vs. non graveyard based decks.
I usually take out Bloodghasts and 1 Gravecrawler when I side things in. You probably can get away with siding Vengevine(s) as well if the graveyard hate is turn 0 or super quick and affects the whole yard.
I got to learn first hand how obnoxious a Yixlid Jailer can be. Turn 1 Giver of Runes, turn 2 Yixlid Jailer, turn 3 Rest in Peace. F my life. Sad part was that I had Lightning Axe in hand too and thought I'd bust up the turn 2 "Devoted Druid." Lmao.