I've sold 2 at about $4, but seeing that eBay still has some available at that price (plus shipping) I'm going to leave it where it is for now.
That was me. I would have bought more but only 2 were up for sale, then the next day i checked again and you had a bunch more. It was probably me hallucinating numbers i probably read a 7 as a 2. =(
The other thing with SCG is that they have everything in stock and you can buy it all at once on one shipping charge (same goes for other online stores). Ebay is such a pain if i've got 20 different playsets all to get i don't want to buy them from 10 different stores over the course of a week, and pay separate shipping. Ebay is lower cause it is inconvenient and a pain to deal with there is a cost for that lower price.
you are still trying to justify the use of this card....Yes, you are talking about a fictional agro deck where "you can see it been played", find me a deck that can profit from this card and ill shut up, you cant cuz that how bad it is. "Merfolk and Bant in extended" keyword being a formate with plenty of great hard counters.
What hard counters are there in Extended? Cryptic command?
Mana Leak, and negate are not hard counters, they are both situational or only hit certain types of spells.
Here is Jeff Cunninghams Bant List from last seasons extended. I could easily see a card like this being worth while in this sort of deck, as the draw back would be negligible, and it would be a catch all once you have dropped your threats. Not saying it would have been run 100% i'm just saying it would warrant considderation. If you dont' agree fine. But to say this card is THAT BAD i think is silly.
If this deck did run this card would it be adverse to it's development and strategy? i'd say no. Maybe the meta wouldn't dictate that it would be necessary in here, but it certainly could run it without problems if it wanted.
I wasn't really talking about the specific card so much as that sort of effect in a deck that would want it. Explore and Sakura-Tribe Scout, have seen play in competitive decks. That is what i was getting at. Besides the specifics are irrelevant when talking theory, that sentence was just talking about having reasons for running cards that get around the draw back or make it playable or an advantage. It was just an example, jeez.
Well if we are discussing the usefulness… Where can you find a blue agro deck that would be able take advantage of this card? The only format that is in desperately need of a good hard counter is standard, and there is no deck that would ever be better for by substituting cancel with this (unless a new card gets printed with a mechanism that would recover the drawback). It’s another kick in the family jewels to blue, there is no cards for blue agro therefore you can’t discuss a fictional deck just to make a bad card look good.
Well the examples that i did already mention were Merfolk and Bant in extended. Last season both those decks were playable and could use something like this with very little to no draw back.
I'm pretty sure that those decks weren't fictional. There have been tons of blue based agro control deck in magic's history, i don't really get what you are talking about.
Again since so many people seem to be missing my point even though i said this before. I'm not advocating this card, and i think it is undesirable in pure control, but i can see situations where an agro control deck would maybe consider this card and not care about the draw back.
And to label this as playable and worthy of consideration is silly. You have obviously never won a tournament match playing islands. This card is a slap in the face to all blue mages
Thanks for putting words in my mouth, where did i ever advocate putting this in a pure control deck? Nowhere.
Your statement only applies to decks like UW control. Slow plodding control decks that want to make their land drops, and exploit mana and resource advantages.
What i'm saying is that agro control decks couldn't care less about the draw back after the first few turns.
God could you have misconstrued my statements and taken them out of context more?
You say this is a slap in the face to control decks? fine whatever, but it certainly isn't for creature based agro control. This really isn't meant for the type of control you want, just like familiars ruse, wasn't meant to go in creatureless control or Landstill type strategies.
Everytime i post something on this forum something like this happens. Seriously try reading. I don't know why i bother.
What i'm saying is, usually the first 3 turns are spent playing your own threats, not sitting back and playing a hard counter.
I'm not advocating playing this in the first 2-3 turns, that was my whole point.
Are rune snag and leak better than this in the early turns? absolutely. Later on? maybe not. But i'd say that the applications and the decks they go in might be different. Like i said in an agro control blue deck you want to drop threats for the first few turns and then sit back and protect them and ride to victory, this spell seems perfectly acceptable in that role in that sort of deck.
I'm not saying this is amazing and will see lots of play, but to dismiss it completely and label it as unplayable and not worthy of consideration is just silly.
Daze lets you bounce a land instead of paying its mana cost - Deprive forces you to do both.
Thanks Captain Obvious!
While were at it "daze can be countered by paying 1 mana", this can't.
Sure this forces you to do both that's what a draw back is. The trick is finding a way to mitigate that or turn it into an advantage with halimir deapths or Tolaria west or landfall, or walking atlas. Or just have it in a deck that couldn't care less about it's land drops, like 90% of extended.
comparing this card to daze in any sense means you have never played a format with daze. not even remotaly the same use of applications
Nice assumption about what formats i play in and assuming i'm a noob.
You dont' think this has really similar applications to a cheap disruptive counter in an extended deck like Bant, or Faeries or Merfolk or any blue based agro control list with a curve that stops at 3? You don't see any parallel there?
Like i'm not saying this is the second coming or anything, but yeah as a tempo negative or neutral cheap counter, i think this might have some applications. Especially in the aforementioned blue agro decks that don't care about land drops.
This is why i love Salvation so much, a ton of people want to look like some super smart guy and jump on any chance they get to feel smart or feel like a better player than someone else, when someone posts a frivolous comment or uses sarcasm. Bravo gentlemen.
These are the costs from the Orb thread, i have updated them all though i may have missed some, this is off the spoiler for 93 cards, and i didn't check all the threads.
If this is too much trouble don't worry about it, but if someone has an updated list of the orb words that still need to be crunched, or ideally a list that has all the names and then what still needs to be fit in that would be great and would help out those crunching at home.
Also Caranthir if you could maybe add the actual CMC's instead of just the colours to the main post that would be helpful too. I realize that's a lot of work but it would make things easier at a glance, for figuring out exactly how many rares etc in each colour combo we are missing etc.
If ther is a list going that is like this already or a part of the orb thread that i missed i appologize.
If i get some time later i'll try to copy paste your first post with this info added to save you the work.
I disagree. Stores certainly have more overhead than your average internet business (although shipping boxes is pricey), but almost every store I've been to charges MUCH more than they should. They make nothing but money when they hold drafts for $15, sell boxes for $120, and they rake it in when people by packs at $4.
Honestly, if they want to stay relevant compared to internet stores, they should charge less. Neutral Ground NYC charged WAY too much, and overcharged themselves into oblivion.
I think it has more to do with online stores charging much less than they should.
I would argue that the stores are not raking it in with $120 boxes,
I would think that most B&M stores simply can't afford the huge cash flow hit of ordering enough boxes to make money at really low margin boxes for under $100.
That was me. I would have bought more but only 2 were up for sale, then the next day i checked again and you had a bunch more. It was probably me hallucinating numbers i probably read a 7 as a 2. =(
What hard counters are there in Extended? Cryptic command?
Mana Leak, and negate are not hard counters, they are both situational or only hit certain types of spells.
Here is Jeff Cunninghams Bant List from last seasons extended. I could easily see a card like this being worth while in this sort of deck, as the draw back would be negligible, and it would be a catch all once you have dropped your threats. Not saying it would have been run 100% i'm just saying it would warrant considderation. If you dont' agree fine. But to say this card is THAT BAD i think is silly.
creature [23]
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Troll Ascetic
instant [8]
2 Bant Charm
4 Path to Exile
2 Stifle
artifact [6]
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Umezawa's Jitte
land [23]
1 Breeding Pool
2 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Temple Garden
3 Treetop Village
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
60 cards
If this deck did run this card would it be adverse to it's development and strategy? i'd say no. Maybe the meta wouldn't dictate that it would be necessary in here, but it certainly could run it without problems if it wanted.
On the draw against heirarch and war monk?
I wasn't really talking about the specific card so much as that sort of effect in a deck that would want it. Explore and Sakura-Tribe Scout, have seen play in competitive decks. That is what i was getting at. Besides the specifics are irrelevant when talking theory, that sentence was just talking about having reasons for running cards that get around the draw back or make it playable or an advantage. It was just an example, jeez.
Well the examples that i did already mention were Merfolk and Bant in extended. Last season both those decks were playable and could use something like this with very little to no draw back.
I'm pretty sure that those decks weren't fictional. There have been tons of blue based agro control deck in magic's history, i don't really get what you are talking about.
Again since so many people seem to be missing my point even though i said this before. I'm not advocating this card, and i think it is undesirable in pure control, but i can see situations where an agro control deck would maybe consider this card and not care about the draw back.
It's really not that hard to understand.
Thanks for putting words in my mouth, where did i ever advocate putting this in a pure control deck? Nowhere.
Your statement only applies to decks like UW control. Slow plodding control decks that want to make their land drops, and exploit mana and resource advantages.
What i'm saying is that agro control decks couldn't care less about the draw back after the first few turns.
God could you have misconstrued my statements and taken them out of context more?
You say this is a slap in the face to control decks? fine whatever, but it certainly isn't for creature based agro control. This really isn't meant for the type of control you want, just like familiars ruse, wasn't meant to go in creatureless control or Landstill type strategies.
Everytime i post something on this forum something like this happens. Seriously try reading. I don't know why i bother.
I'm not advocating playing this in the first 2-3 turns, that was my whole point.
Are rune snag and leak better than this in the early turns? absolutely. Later on? maybe not. But i'd say that the applications and the decks they go in might be different. Like i said in an agro control blue deck you want to drop threats for the first few turns and then sit back and protect them and ride to victory, this spell seems perfectly acceptable in that role in that sort of deck.
I'm not saying this is amazing and will see lots of play, but to dismiss it completely and label it as unplayable and not worthy of consideration is just silly.
Thanks Captain Obvious!
While were at it "daze can be countered by paying 1 mana", this can't.
Sure this forces you to do both that's what a draw back is. The trick is finding a way to mitigate that or turn it into an advantage with halimir deapths or Tolaria west or landfall, or walking atlas. Or just have it in a deck that couldn't care less about it's land drops, like 90% of extended.
Oh really? I hadn't read the card before.
Nice assumption about what formats i play in and assuming i'm a noob.
You dont' think this has really similar applications to a cheap disruptive counter in an extended deck like Bant, or Faeries or Merfolk or any blue based agro control list with a curve that stops at 3? You don't see any parallel there?
Like i'm not saying this is the second coming or anything, but yeah as a tempo negative or neutral cheap counter, i think this might have some applications. Especially in the aforementioned blue agro decks that don't care about land drops.
This is why i love Salvation so much, a ton of people want to look like some super smart guy and jump on any chance they get to feel smart or feel like a better player than someone else, when someone posts a frivolous comment or uses sarcasm. Bravo gentlemen.
Thanks for this,
could you tell us the physical dimensions of the card? (unless this has already been spoiled).
#2 1WU Aven Mimeomancer (Creature-Bird Wizard) (R)
#3 WU Ethercaste Knight (Artifact Creature-Human Knight) (C)
#4 WU
#5 1WU Fieldmist Borderpost (Artifact) (C)
#6 5WWU Filigree Angel (Artifact Creature-Angel) (R)
#7 3WU Glassdust Hulk (Artifact Creature - Golem) C
#8 WU Meddling Mage (Creature-Human Wizard) (R)
#9 WU
#10 2WU Offering to Asha (Instant)
#11 WU
#12 WU
#13 WU
#14 4WU Sanctum Plowbeast (Artifact Creature - Beast) C
#15 WU Stormcaller's Boon (Sorcery?)
#16 1WU Wall of Denial (Creature - Illusion Wall)
#17 UB Architects of Will (Artifact Creature - Human Wizard?) C?
#18 2UB Brainbite (Sorcery) (C)
#19 UB Deny Reality (Instant)
#20 2UB Jhessian Zombies (Creature - Human Zombie?) (C)
#21 UB
#22 UB
#23 UB
#24 1UB Lich Lord of Unx (Creature-Zombie Wizard) (R)
#25 UB
#26 UB
#27 1UB Mistvein Borderpost (Artifact) (C)
#28 3UB Nemesis of Reason (Creature-Horror Leviathan) (R)
#29 1UB Soul Manipulation (Instant) (C)
#30 3UUBB Soulquake (Sorcery) (R)
#31 UB Time Sieve (Artifact) (R)
#32 UB
#33 BR
#34 3BR Bituminous Blast (Instant) (U)
#35 4BRBreath of Malfegor (Sorcery) (C)
#36 BR Deathbringer Thoctar (Creature-Beast) (R)
#37 3BBR Defiler of Souls (Creature-Demon) (MR)
#38 BR
#39 BR
#404BR Igneous Pouncer (Creature - Elemental) C
#411BRKathari Scourer
#423BR Lightning Reaver (Creature - Zombie Beast) (R)
#433BR Monstrous Carabid (Creature - Insect) (C)
#441BR Sanity Gnawers (Creature - Zombie Rat) C?
#452BR Singe-Mind Ogre (Creature - Ogre Mutant?)
#46 BR Terminate (Instant) (C)
#47 2BR Thought Hemorrhage (Sorcery) (R)
#48 1BR Veinfire Borderpost (Artifact) (C)
#49 3RG Blitz Hellion (Creature-Hellion) (R)
#50 2RG Bloodbraid Elf (Creature-Elf Berserker) (U)
#51 RG Colossal Might (Instant) (C)
#52 RG
#53 2RRRG Dragon Broodmother (Creature-Dragon) (MR)
#54 RG
#55 1RG Firewild Borderpost (Artifact) (C)
#56 1RG Godtracker of Jund (Creature-Elf Shaman)
#57 3RG Gorger Wurm (Creature-Wurm) (C)
#58 RG
#59 2RG Rhox Brute (Creature-Rhino Warrior) (C)
#60 1RRGSpellbreaker Behemoth (Creature-Beast] (R)
#61 RG
#62 RG
#63 4RG Valley Rannet (Creature - Beast) C
#64 RG Vengeful Rebirth (Sorcery?)
#65 1GW Behemoth Sledge (Artifact-Equipment) (R)
#66 GW Captured Sunlight (Artifact/Enchantment?)
#671GW Dauntless Escort (Creature - Rhino Soldier?) (R)
#68 4GW Enlisted Wurm (Creature - Wurm) (U)
#69 GW Grizzled Leotau (Creature - Cat?) C?
#70 2GW Knight of New Alara (Creature-Human Knight) (R)
#71 GW Knotvine Paladin (Creature-Human Knight) (R)
#72 GW
#73 1GGW Mycoid Shepherd (Creature-Fungus) (R)
#74 4GW Pale Recluse (Creature-Spider) (C)
#75 GW Qasali Pridemage (Creature-Cat Wizard) (C)
#76 GW Reborn Hope (Sorcery)
#77 GW Sigil of the Nayan Gods (Artifact)
#78 4GWSigiled Behemoth (Creature-Beast) (C)
#79 GW
#80 1GW Wildfield Borderpost (Artifact) (C)
#81 WB?
#82 3WBB Necromancer's Covenant (Enchantment) (R)
#83 WB
#84 WB?
#85 WB Zealous Persecution (Instant) (U)
#86 UUR Double Cancel* (Instant) (U)
#87 UR?
#88 UR?
#89 UR?
#90 3UR Spellbound Dragon (Creature-Dragon) (R)
#91 3BG Lord of Extinction (Creature-Elemental) (MR)
#92 1BG Maelstrom Pulse (Sorcery) (R)
#93 3BG Merrow Chomper (creature) (U)
#94 BG Putrid Leech (Creature-Leech) (C)
#95 BG?
#96 1RW Bolt of Intimidation (Instant) (U)
#97 RW Cerodon Yearling (Creature-Beast) (C)
#98 2RW Glory of Warfare (Enchantment) (R)
#99 RW?
#100 RW?
#101 GU?
#102 GU?
#103 3GU Sages of the Anima (Creature-Elf Wizard) (R)
#104 GU Vedalken Heretic (Creature-Vedalken Shaman) (R)
#105 1GU Wisescale Serpent?
#106 4WUB Enigma Sphinx (Artifact Creature-Sphinx) (R)
#107 WUB Esper Sojourners (C) (Artifact Creature - ?)
#108 WUB?
#109 2WUB Sen Triplets (Legendary Artifact Creature - Human Wizard) (MR)
#110 5WUB Sphinx of the Steel Wind (Artifact Creature-Sphinx) (MR)
#111 UBR Grixis Sojourners (C)
#112 UBR?
#113 UBR Thraximundar (Legendary Creature - Zombie Assassin) (MR)
#114 UBBR Unscythe, Killer of Kings (Legendary Artifact-Equipment) (R)
#115 BRG?
#116 BRG Jund Sojourners (C)
#117 4BRG? Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund? (Legendary Creature-Dragon) (MR?)
#118 XBRG Lavalanche (Sorcery) (R)
#119 1BRG Madrush Cyclops (Creature-Cyclops Warrior) (R)
#120 RGW?
#121 RGW Mayael's Aria (Enchantment) (R)
#122 2RGW Naya Sojourners (Creature-Elf Shaman) (C)
#123 1RGW Retaliator Griffin (Creature-Griffin) (R)
#124 2RGW Uril, the Miststalker (Legendary Creature-Beast) (MR)
#125 GWU Bant Sojourners (C)
#126 2GWU Finest Hour (Enchantment) (R)
#127 GWU?
#128 GWU Jenara, Asura of War (Legendary Creature-Angel) (MR)
#129 GWU?
#130 WUBRG Maelstrom Nexus (MR)
#131 :symwb::symu: Arsenal Thresher (Artifact Creature-Beast?)
#132 :symwb::symu: Esper Stormblade (Artifact Creature - Human/Vedalken Warrior)? (C)
#133 :symwb::symu:
#134 :symur::symb: Grixis Grimblade (Creature - Zombie Warrior) (C)
#135 :symur::symb: Sewn-Eyed Drake (Creature-Drake)
#136 3:symur::symb: Slave of Bolas (Sorcery) (U)
#137 3:symbg::symr: Giant Ambush Beetle (Creature - Insect) (U)
#138 :symbg::symr: Jund Hackblade(Creature-Goblin Berserker) (C)
#139 :symbg::symr:
#140 2:symrw::symg: Marisi's Twinclaws (Creature-Cat Warrior) (U)
#141 :symrw::symg: Naya Hushblade (Creature - Elf Warrior?) (C)
#142 :symrw::symg: Passed Prosperity (Enchantment-Aura) (C)
#143 :symgu::symw: Bant Sureblade (Creature - Human Soldier?) (C)
#144 :symgu::symw: Crystallization (Enchantment-Aura) (C)
#145 :symgu::symw:
These are the costs from the Orb thread, i have updated them all though i may have missed some, this is off the spoiler for 93 cards, and i didn't check all the threads.
:symg::symw: - 4 - Qasali Pridemage, Knotvine Paladin, Reborn Hope, Grizzeled Leoutou
:1mana::symg::symw: - 4 - Wildfield Borderpost, Dauntless Escort, Beheamoth sledge,
:2mana::symg::symw: - 3 - Knight of New Alara
:4mana::symg::symw: - 3 - Pale Recluse, Sigiled Behemoth, Enlisted worm
:1mana::symg::symg::symw: - 1 - Mycoid Shepherd
:1mana::symg::symw::symw: - 1
:symr::symg: - 1 - Colosol Might
:1mana::symr::symg: - 5 - Firewild Borderpost, God Tracker of Jund
:2mana::symr::symg: - 2 - Bloodbraid Elf, Rhox Brute
:3mana::symr::symg: - 4 - Blitz Hellion, Gorger Wurm
:4mana::symr::symg: - 2 - Valley Rannet
:1mana::symr::symg::symg: - 1 - Spellbreaker Behemoth
:2mana::symr::symr::symr::symg: - 1 - Dragon Broodmother
:symw::symu: - 3 Ethercaste Knight, Meddling Mage
:1mana::symw::symu: - 6 - Aven Mimeomancer, Fieldmist Borderpost, Ardent Plea, wall of denial
:2mana::symw::symu: - 3 - Offering to Asha
:3mana::symw::symu: - 1 Glassdust Hulk
:4mana::symw::symu: - 2 Sanctum Plowbeast, Lords of Forgotten Alara
:5mana::symw::symw::symu: - 1 - Filigree Angel
:symu::symb: - 4 - Time Sieve, Lich Lord of Unx
:1mana::symu::symb: - 7 - Mistvein Borderpost, Lich Lord of Unx, Soul Manipulation
:2mana::symu::symb: - 3 Brainbite, Jessian Zombies
:3mana::symu::symb: - 3 - Nemesis of Reason
:4mana::symu::symb: - 1
:symu::symu::symb::symb: - 1 - Lich Lord of Unx
:3mana::symu::symu::symb::symb: - 1 - Soulquake
:symb::symr: - 2 - Terminate
:1mana::symb::symr: - 5 - Veinfire Borderpost, Sanity Gnawers, Kathari Scourer
:2mana::symb::symr: - 2 - Thought Hemhorrage, Singe mind Ogre:3mana::symb::symr: - 6 - Bituminous Blast, Lightning Reaver, Kathari Scourer, monsterous Carabid
:4mana::symb::symr: - 2 - Igneous Pouncer, Breath of Malfagor
:5mana::symb::symr: - 2
:3mana::symb::symb::symr: - 1 - Defiler of Souls
:symw::symb: - 1 Zealous persecution
:1mana::symw::symb: - 2
:2mana::symw::symw::symb::symb: - 1 "mindtwist remove graveyard card"
:2mana::symw::symb::symb: - 1 Necromancers Covenant
:symr::symw: - 3 - Cerodon Yearling
:1mana::symr::symw: - 1 Bolt of intimidation
:2mana::symr::symw: - 1 - Glory of Warfare
:symb::symg: - 1 Putrid Leach
:1mana::symb::symg: - 1 - Maelstrom Pulse
:3mana::symb::symg: - 2 - Lord of Extinction
:4mana::symb::symg: - 1
:symg::symu: - 1 Vedalken Heratic
:1mana::symg::symu: - 3 Wisescale Serpent
:3mana::symg::symu: - 1 - Sages of the Anima
:symu::symr: - 1
:3mana::symu::symr: - 2 - Spellbound Dragon
:5mana::symu::symr: - 1
:symu::symu::symr: - 1 Double Cancel
:symw::symu::symb: - 1
:1mana::symw::symu::symb: - 1
:2mana::symw::symu::symb: - 1 - Sen Triplets
:4mana::symw::symu::symb: - 1 - Enigma Sphinx
:5mana::symw::symu::symb: - 1 - Sphinx of the Steel Wind
:symg::symw::symu: - 2 - Jenara
:1mana::symg::symw::symu: - 1
:2mana::symg::symw::symu: - 1 Finest Hour
:xmana::symg::symw::symu: - 1 Wargate
:symr::symg::symw: - 1 Mayal's Aria
:1mana::symr::symg::symw: - 2 - Retaliator Griffin
:2mana::symr::symg::symw: - 2 - Uril, Naya Sojourners
:symb::symr::symg: - 1
:1mana::symb::symr::symg: - 1 - Madrush Cyclops
:3mana::symb::symr::symg: - 1
:4mana::symb::symr::symg: - 1 Karrthus
:xmana::symb::symr::symg: - 1 - Lavalanche
:1mana::symu::symb::symr: - 1
:2mana::symu::symb::symr: - 1
:4mana::symu::symb::symr: - 1 - Thraximundar
:symu::symb::symb::symr:- 1 - Unscythe, Killer of Kings
:symgb::symr: - 2 - Jund Hackblade
:3mana::symgb::symr: - 1 - Giant Ambush Beetle
:symrw::symg: - 2 "Naya Blade Cycle" Passed Prosperity
:2mana::symrw::symg: - 1 - Marisi's Twinclaws
:symug::symw: - 2 - Bant sureblade, Crystallization
:2mana::symug::symw: - 1
:symwb::symu: - 2, Esper Stormblade
:2mana::symwb::symu: - 1
:symur::symb: - 1 Grixis Grimblade
:2mana::symur::symb: - 1
:3mana::symur::symb: - 1 Slave of Bolas
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: - 1 Maelstrom Nexus
:1mana::symw: - 1 - Jenara
:2mana::symw: - 2 Bant Sojourners
:2mana::symu: - 2 Esper Sojourners?
:2mana::symb: - 2 Grixis Sojourners?
:2mana::symr: - 2 Jund Sojourners?
:2mana::symg: - 2 Naya Sojourners
Also Caranthir if you could maybe add the actual CMC's instead of just the colours to the main post that would be helpful too. I realize that's a lot of work but it would make things easier at a glance, for figuring out exactly how many rares etc in each colour combo we are missing etc.
If ther is a list going that is like this already or a part of the orb thread that i missed i appologize.
If i get some time later i'll try to copy paste your first post with this info added to save you the work.
Thanks.
I think it has more to do with online stores charging much less than they should.
I would argue that the stores are not raking it in with $120 boxes,
I would think that most B&M stores simply can't afford the huge cash flow hit of ordering enough boxes to make money at really low margin boxes for under $100.