You know, I'm not shocked that a computer can create some fairly interesting cards by today's standards.
Under Rosewater's direction they've pretty much removed anything iconic from the colours and have pretty much produced a 'block' template that a monkey could produce from. 98% crap vanilla bears with new names, 2% chase mythic cards that sell boxes, 0% the soul of the game as it was before he got a hold of it.
Slow your roll there, friend. There are many different types of players. Let's remember to appreciate everyone's playstyle and, in fact, the game itself. I might not agree with everything MaRo has done with the game, but you can't deny he's been instrumental in pushing M:TG to its insane heights today.
Brainstorm and Ponder are just that good. There's a good reason they're banned in Modern. Try it out and let me know what you think! I still like the Conflagrate kill more than Maniac. Maniac just straight loses to an Abrupt Decay while Conflagrate only loses to explicitly Counterflux, and not even then if we have two of them. Much like Ad Nauseum, we can just fill our hand until we have the combo. With Maniac you *must* empty your entire library (which can be awkward with the draws coming in 3s. You essentially must play probe to make it a single turn kill, as you can end up with two cards in library. *shrug*, it's not a huge deal. Let me know how the playtesting goes. I think I'm gonna pick up a playset of Swans just for the Lels.
I like some number of Probes. They certainly do work in UR combo lists (think Sneak and Show). You could probably run them over the Ponders and one of the Digs. Considering the tap-out nature of our deck, it's hard to jam more counterspells in since they're solely protection for the combo. Remember, the Bolts and Chain Lightning are board control elements as well. You could probably adjust the ratio of Burn to Counterspells after some amount of playtesting. 18 lands is not too few in my opinion. This deck (at least this iteration) is a pure combo deck. Extra lands mean extra bricks. We're looking to get to 4 total mana and that's it. Also remember the Petals count as mana sources both pre and mid combo. That slot might be better as Simian Spirit Guide, but Petals fuel Digs and make blue. It's a toss up.
Ahha, I didn't realize budget was a constraint here. If so, then I still prefer Steam Vents over the snowland plan. If you do really like it though, that's fine. Winter's Chill is amusing. Problematically, there are many better sweepers in Red that also trigger Swans. I wouldn't mind it as a fun-of but not as a real plan.
The Standstill route is questionable in my mind. Standstill decks are looking to draw the game out. They often have very few/limited win conditions. In comparison, the infinite combo we're looking to generate is fully capable of winning on Turn 4. That split focus means they're probably not complimentary archetypes.
First, this combo is sweet. Like, really sweet. It's obviously not the fastest thing in the world, but I love it nonetheless.
Second, I would love me some Dig Through Time in a list like this. It's a lovely way to find the combo pieces.
Third, I think the mana requirements for this deck are too steep to run Skred. As much as it's a lovely card paired with Swans, it's really too hard to turn on while casting our other spells. Also limited ourselves to four fetches to pair with our Brainstorms seems wrong.
Therefore, I would be interested in see what you think about the following list:
I firmly believe a discarded and then flashbacked Conflagrate is a better finisher than Lab Maniac. Maniac might be useful post-board once they know what we're on. It might be worthwhile to run a small Cunning Wish package for Bounce and more copies of Chain of Plasma. I like some number of ancient Tombs to enable the Turn 2/3 Swans. Ideally, a turn 3 Swans is followed by a turn 4 win. The addition of Chain Lightning is nice since it allows for 3 Red - Draw 6 Cards which is pretty good.
A couple of thoughts and additional angles: Stinkweed Imp seems pretty good. It blocks a ton of nonsense, can be sacked to Braids and can be dredged back to hand. That dredge enables our Bloodghasts and Crucible of Worlds as well. I like it a bit better than Confidant as it essentially draws us a ton of additional cards. I would love a Volrath's Stronghold to return countered/milled Braids. Cabal Pit also gets much better when you can dredge to find it and *also* turn it on. Buried Ruins to return spent/countered combo pieces to sack to Braids might be good as well.
I'm not a gigantic fan of Dark Confidant in a list filled with 4cmc spells. I'd really prefer to see something like Phyrexian Arena in that slot, even if it's a worse card in general. It might be worth to play something like Spinning Darkness as both removal and lifegain in one free package. I also wouldn't hate something like Exsanguinate if you're really looking for hefty black lifegain. Syphon Life seems testable perhaps, being able to make use of the extra lands Stax decks draw seems good.
Note that this is my impression of the situation and not necessarily the best option. I encourage you to playtest with all these options.
Your wisdom is equally matched by your friendliness.
I will test the mentor, probe, cabal concoction but I wonder is there anyway to fit cabal/probe with delver without going grixis. I love my lightning bolts but they just fall short when facing down griselbrands and goyfs.
Is it possible to run mentor with delvers?
On a side note, any worthiness of including Zealous Persecution in a mentor list?
Hey now, I'm just trying to be a good neighbor. I do think it's possible as they're both looking for the same thing: many cheap spells. It's a balancing act because Mentor isn't super synergistic with a tempo strategy of Wasteland/Stifle. There's probably a middle ground where the tempo aspects of Delver and the insane power of a Mentor can mesh together. In that sort of list, Zealous Persecution is insane. It does work against many of the formats best decks and is a +2/+2 to most of your team. I wouldn't hate a copy or two main, with another one or two in the side.
I like Netherspirit as fuel for Contamination. It would require reworking the list to include solely 2-3 copies of it. Problematically, Entomb doesn't work well with the Stax pairing of Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere. Awakening Zone is fun but an atrocious card by itself.
Obviously, Gloom is a sideboard card at best. I also don't love Leylines main either. 4 Urborgs is at least 2 too many. While Abrupt Decay does interact with Smokestack/Sundial it's worth noting that you probably never add more than 2 soot counters, and once the engine is going, there's almost no way they can actually cast a Decay. It's also worth noting that with Braids it's never an issue anyway since her Stax ability is only 1 per turn. Also, Lilli sucks in a stax list. You need your cards to stay in your hand. I'm not so sure that Pox+Stax is the right move. They're fairly divergent strategies for all intents and purposes.
I love the Bitterblossom + Contamination lock. It's such a lovely little engine. Ophiomancer seems strong in a list with equipment. I wonder how much worth there is between Bloodghast and Genesis Chamber. I know it can trigger for the opponent, but if the idea is to prevent them from casting anything than it has significantly less downside. Otherwise, I really love Blossom + some number of Jittes. Blossom can win games by itself, without any sort of engine.
An additional note: has anyone considered Sundial of the Infinite? It's already used to combo with Smokestack, so it can also be used to combo with Braids. An additional note, some number of swamps should be replaced by fetchlands. Having instant speed ways to return Bloodghasts is very important against graveyard hate.
White Stax lists run some number of 4cmc Elspeths. I wonder if there's value in playing some number of 4cmc Lilianas. Liliana of the Dark Realms thins the deck, can kill opposing creatures or pump our own, and then turns all our swamps into additional double Sol Lands. I'd actually be more interested in the 5cmc Lili: Liliana Vess everything she does is awesome. Her -2 in a Stax deck is particularly powerful as it allows us to find every silver bullet we could ever want to run. She fills a similar role to Big Tezz in blue stax lists.
Hello there! I can certainly address your points more in depth. Note that this is my impression of the situation and not necessarily the best option. I encourage you to playtest with all these options.
In regards to Vindicate: I love it too. I've been trying to find a list to play it in forever. The best option has been an Esper Vindicate/Snapcaster shell. It's still not efficient enough for a Delver list though. Delver lists are looking to play with 2 lands. A 3cmc 1-for-1 is not ideal. I do like it out of the board to handle troublesome things like Stoneforge->Batterskull and Jace.
Efficient beats are the name of the game. Without access to the green/red beaters, we have to rely on the delve ones. While they're good when they're good, their floor is much lower. You can cast a Goyf into a Rest in Peace, you can't cast a Tombstalker. As far as the split between them, I think testing is needed. They all have pros and cons.
Dig Through Time is an insanely powerful card in the right shell. In those shells its used to dig, usually, for singletons or golden bullets. In Delver lists, everything pretty much does the same thing. There are no silver bullets. There's really not much value to be gained from Dig, particularly when it clashes with the creature delve requirements.
Mentor, Probe, and Cabal Therapy are insane. I encourage you to test either version. Mentor is the vastly stronger long game, TNN is nearly unanswerable. Without equipment it's a somewhat lackluster clock, but oh well. To hose Miracles, I wouldn't necessarily play Chalice. Yeah they have a lot of 1cmc stuff, but Top probably comes down before it, and all their action spells aren't 1cmc. I really love Gaddock Teeg against miracles, but that's not happening so, I strongly approve of a powerful discard/counter suite and to play very aggressively. Miracles will always have an answer, but then might not have it *now*. Don't get sucked into the game-plan of durdling and doing nothing, you can't beat them at that.
RollerSnapsticoaster (That is, Snapcaster Mage), is a lovely gentleman. The concern with him, in a Delver list, is that 1) he's an additional creature spell that doesn't flip Delver 2) He is only relevant when you have 3+ mana in play (not happening often in a Delver list) and 3) he competes with delve. I think he might be worth a slot or two just for incremental play value or if you're low on creatures, but I would never play 4 or even 3.
I'm really not sure if they're at all similar. In order for Myth Realized to be a valuable part of any deck, it needs to come down on Turn 1. That, in turn, necessitates playing 4 copies. In the games where you don't have one in your opener (roughly 60% of the time), that means that you're going to top-deck a Myth Realized at some point. That top-decked Myth is just plain atrocious. It is a dead draw when hellbent, it doesn't contribute to the Tempo plan at all, as it requires mana to activate. At least Monastery Mentor can chump when you top-deck it late. I can certainly see an argument for playing less Mentors, but I don't think I can see Myth Realized in a list like this at all.
I wouldn't hate it as a sideboard card, however. I imagine it can do a considerable amount of work in certain matchups (Lands comes to mind). Ideally it would be for matchups where you're expecting to go super late, and to have all your mana in play.
So here's the deal, in my mind, about Esper Delver. Any Delver variant wants to be a tempo deck. At the heart of tempo decks are three things: hyper efficient threats and free/cheap conditional counterspells and finally Land Destruction. We can easily accomplish the last two in Esper Delver: Daze, Force of Will, and potentially Spell Pierce paired with Wasteland and Stifle. The key issue here is 1) the lack of cheap efficient threats like Nimble Mongoose or Tarmogoyf from Green or Young Pyromancer, Monastery Swiftspear or Goblin Guide from Red. The Esper mana base allows for Delver of Secrets itself, and some combination of Tasigur, Angler, Tombstalker and Dark Confidant. White potentially allows for Monastery Mentor.
A couple thoughts, comments and concerns: Swords to Plowshares is the best removal spell in the format. Problematically, it slows the game down. This has traditionally been a problem in White splashing Delver lists. Vindicate is a great card, its home is not in a tempo deck. Tapping out for a 3cmc sorcery is not part of Delver's tempo plan. I also sincerely dislike Dig Through Time in any Delver list, including this one. I can take or leave Deathrite Shaman, so I'll just let it slide. Problematically, without a green splash, it does not do great service as graveyard hate. A miser green source might be necessary. I think there are two ways to go from here: The first is 1-2 copies of True-Name Nemesis to serve as a Tarmogoyf-esq wall or to fully commit to the Monastery Mentor plan, which ideally includes some number of Gitaxian Probes and Cabal Therapies.
I think both lists need the full 20 lands, considering that they are looking to cast 3cmc spells while also wasting an opponent as much as possible. I think the miser Tarpit could be something else, but without it there are very few ways for this deck to interact with a resolved Jace (or other planeswalker). I think the second list is better in more established metas as the Cabal Therapy/Probe combo is best when you can peg what your opponents are on. Simultaneously, it rewards higher player skill more. The first list is probably better in unknown metas, since a resolved True-Name is impossible for many strategies to beat. I am specifically concerned about the Miracles matchup for both lists, as the lack of Green and Red cut off all the best answers to Counterbalance, specifically, no Red Blast, Abrupt Decay or Krosan Grip. That leaves us in the very awkward situation of potentially siding into Vindicates (which is actually excellent against Miracles since they play 1-2 Council's Judgement and 1-2 Entreat the Angels for their 3cmc slot), or something like Disenchant.
This color combination, however, opens up the best possible sideboard hate cards. Supreme Verdict is in our colors, as is Rest in Peace. Heck, we can even play Aethersworn Canonist/Meddling Mage in the board to lock up the combo matchup. I also don't hate something like Armageddon in the board to help win the Miracles/Lands/Cloudpost matchup. In any event, let me know what you think.
You've made some incredibly solid points. To begin, I'd like to discuss Aether Vial a little bit more. As you noted, the Rebels themselves are adept at tutoring from your library to the battlefield. In order to do that, however, you need access to mana. If you use your mana to do Rebel tutoring, you don't have the mana to cast more Rebel cards or the rest of your spells. This is where Aether Vial comes in. While the fact that it provides an uncounterable way to put creatures into play, that's not really its most powerful function. In essence, it serves as a distinct parallel source of mana solely for creature spells. The ability to play out threats every turn and *still* have mana availible for cantrips, counterspells, tutoring, etc is incredibly powerful in Tribal strategies. I'm not suggesting that Vial need go in every creature deck, but it is necessary for ones looking to do two simultaneous things. For instance, it doesn't do anything in a tempo Delver or Secrets deck as they're *not* looking to play out multiple threats, but rather to ride what they do have to victory.
In regards to your first point: it's true that Rebels as a tribe lacks any serious finisher. It also doesn't have the self-pump of Merfolk or Goblins, nor does it have the explosive elements of Elves. That said, what it does have, is inevitability. Every Rebel can eventually find every other Rebel. As you've noted Mirror Entity does a great job of being tutorable and capable of turning all those individually weak Rebels into giant threats. I can't offer any other win conditions, except the inclusion of the Stoneforge Mystic + Equipment package. That package is not nearly as good as Mirror Entitiy however.
To address the second point: you're entirely correct that Rebels as a tribe are super mana hungry. The problem with Gaia's Cradle as a solution to this is that is a very swingy card. It has a very very high potential power level and a very low power-level floor. In essence, it's a win-more card that requires you to be ahead to be powerful. I'm not saying that effect isn't important: closing out games is a very important thing for decks to do. I am saying that it shouldn't be the only source of ramp in your list.
Therefore, I propose a somewhat radical alternative: Rebel Stompy. Using Mox Diamond, Ancient Tomb, and City of Traitors as your major mana sources really boosts the speed of the assembling Rebels. Simultaneously, you get to play Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere to protect yourself, and more importantly, your Rebels. Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares do an incredibly amount of work against a deck filled with 1/1s. Obviously, this means we have to cut the 1cmc rebels, but that's quite alright as they were poor creatures anyway. Instead, we can play a full 4 copies each of Defiant Falcon, Ramosian Lieutenant, Mirror Entitiy, Whipcorder, Vanguard and 2-3 Lin Sivvi.
It even solves the mana question: a full 4 Caverns are called for, on top of 2-3 Karakas. I don't hate Cradles as well, since extra can be discarded to Mox Diamonds. This sort of slimmed down list does a great job of covering classic Mono-White Stax's issue of having too much mana and not enough threats. In particular, once the first Rebel is on the table, we never have to play into counter magic ever again. That sort of freedom to grind the game out is incredible. I'm going to be doing some light playtesting of this concept as I have such a thing for Stax variants.
Slow your roll there, friend. There are many different types of players. Let's remember to appreciate everyone's playstyle and, in fact, the game itself. I might not agree with everything MaRo has done with the game, but you can't deny he's been instrumental in pushing M:TG to its insane heights today.
The Standstill route is questionable in my mind. Standstill decks are looking to draw the game out. They often have very few/limited win conditions. In comparison, the infinite combo we're looking to generate is fully capable of winning on Turn 4. That split focus means they're probably not complimentary archetypes.
First, this combo is sweet. Like, really sweet. It's obviously not the fastest thing in the world, but I love it nonetheless.
Second, I would love me some Dig Through Time in a list like this. It's a lovely way to find the combo pieces.
Third, I think the mana requirements for this deck are too steep to run Skred. As much as it's a lovely card paired with Swans, it's really too hard to turn on while casting our other spells. Also limited ourselves to four fetches to pair with our Brainstorms seems wrong.
Therefore, I would be interested in see what you think about the following list:
4x Swans of Bryn Argoll
2x Snapcaster Mage
Cantrips(10)
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
3x Dig Through Time
Protection(8)
4x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Chain of Plasma
2x Conflagrate
Mana(22)
4x Lotus Petal
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
4x Volcanic Island
2x Island
1x Mountain
3x Ancient Tomb
I firmly believe a discarded and then flashbacked Conflagrate is a better finisher than Lab Maniac. Maniac might be useful post-board once they know what we're on. It might be worthwhile to run a small Cunning Wish package for Bounce and more copies of Chain of Plasma. I like some number of ancient Tombs to enable the Turn 2/3 Swans. Ideally, a turn 3 Swans is followed by a turn 4 win. The addition of Chain Lightning is nice since it allows for 3 Red - Draw 6 Cards which is pretty good.
Hey now, I'm just trying to be a good neighbor. I do think it's possible as they're both looking for the same thing: many cheap spells. It's a balancing act because Mentor isn't super synergistic with a tempo strategy of Wasteland/Stifle. There's probably a middle ground where the tempo aspects of Delver and the insane power of a Mentor can mesh together. In that sort of list, Zealous Persecution is insane. It does work against many of the formats best decks and is a +2/+2 to most of your team. I wouldn't hate a copy or two main, with another one or two in the side.
An additional note: has anyone considered Sundial of the Infinite? It's already used to combo with Smokestack, so it can also be used to combo with Braids. An additional note, some number of swamps should be replaced by fetchlands. Having instant speed ways to return Bloodghasts is very important against graveyard hate.
White Stax lists run some number of 4cmc Elspeths. I wonder if there's value in playing some number of 4cmc Lilianas. Liliana of the Dark Realms thins the deck, can kill opposing creatures or pump our own, and then turns all our swamps into additional double Sol Lands. I'd actually be more interested in the 5cmc Lili: Liliana Vess everything she does is awesome. Her -2 in a Stax deck is particularly powerful as it allows us to find every silver bullet we could ever want to run. She fills a similar role to Big Tezz in blue stax lists.
Anyhoo, those are my thoughts on this archetype.
In regards to Vindicate: I love it too. I've been trying to find a list to play it in forever. The best option has been an Esper Vindicate/Snapcaster shell. It's still not efficient enough for a Delver list though. Delver lists are looking to play with 2 lands. A 3cmc 1-for-1 is not ideal. I do like it out of the board to handle troublesome things like Stoneforge->Batterskull and Jace.
Efficient beats are the name of the game. Without access to the green/red beaters, we have to rely on the delve ones. While they're good when they're good, their floor is much lower. You can cast a Goyf into a Rest in Peace, you can't cast a Tombstalker. As far as the split between them, I think testing is needed. They all have pros and cons.
Dig Through Time is an insanely powerful card in the right shell. In those shells its used to dig, usually, for singletons or golden bullets. In Delver lists, everything pretty much does the same thing. There are no silver bullets. There's really not much value to be gained from Dig, particularly when it clashes with the creature delve requirements.
Mentor, Probe, and Cabal Therapy are insane. I encourage you to test either version. Mentor is the vastly stronger long game, TNN is nearly unanswerable. Without equipment it's a somewhat lackluster clock, but oh well. To hose Miracles, I wouldn't necessarily play Chalice. Yeah they have a lot of 1cmc stuff, but Top probably comes down before it, and all their action spells aren't 1cmc. I really love Gaddock Teeg against miracles, but that's not happening so, I strongly approve of a powerful discard/counter suite and to play very aggressively. Miracles will always have an answer, but then might not have it *now*. Don't get sucked into the game-plan of durdling and doing nothing, you can't beat them at that.
RollerSnapsticoaster (That is, Snapcaster Mage), is a lovely gentleman. The concern with him, in a Delver list, is that 1) he's an additional creature spell that doesn't flip Delver 2) He is only relevant when you have 3+ mana in play (not happening often in a Delver list) and 3) he competes with delve. I think he might be worth a slot or two just for incremental play value or if you're low on creatures, but I would never play 4 or even 3.
I wouldn't hate it as a sideboard card, however. I imagine it can do a considerable amount of work in certain matchups (Lands comes to mind). Ideally it would be for matchups where you're expecting to go super late, and to have all your mana in play.
A couple thoughts, comments and concerns: Swords to Plowshares is the best removal spell in the format. Problematically, it slows the game down. This has traditionally been a problem in White splashing Delver lists. Vindicate is a great card, its home is not in a tempo deck. Tapping out for a 3cmc sorcery is not part of Delver's tempo plan. I also sincerely dislike Dig Through Time in any Delver list, including this one. I can take or leave Deathrite Shaman, so I'll just let it slide. Problematically, without a green splash, it does not do great service as graveyard hate. A miser green source might be necessary. I think there are two ways to go from here: The first is 1-2 copies of True-Name Nemesis to serve as a Tarmogoyf-esq wall or to fully commit to the Monastery Mentor plan, which ideally includes some number of Gitaxian Probes and Cabal Therapies.
The first looks something like this:
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Delver of Secrets
1x Tasigur the Golden Fang
1x Tomb Stalker
2x True Name Nemesis
Permission(20)
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Stifle
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Thoughtseize
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
Lands(20)
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
3x Underground Sea
3x Tundra
1x Scrubland
1x Creeping Tarpit
4x Wasteland
The other potential option is something like this:
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Monastary Mentor
Permission(20)
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Stifle
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
Land(20)
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
3x Underground Sea
3x Tundra
1x Scrubland
1x Creeping Tarpit
4x Wasteland
I think both lists need the full 20 lands, considering that they are looking to cast 3cmc spells while also wasting an opponent as much as possible. I think the miser Tarpit could be something else, but without it there are very few ways for this deck to interact with a resolved Jace (or other planeswalker). I think the second list is better in more established metas as the Cabal Therapy/Probe combo is best when you can peg what your opponents are on. Simultaneously, it rewards higher player skill more. The first list is probably better in unknown metas, since a resolved True-Name is impossible for many strategies to beat. I am specifically concerned about the Miracles matchup for both lists, as the lack of Green and Red cut off all the best answers to Counterbalance, specifically, no Red Blast, Abrupt Decay or Krosan Grip. That leaves us in the very awkward situation of potentially siding into Vindicates (which is actually excellent against Miracles since they play 1-2 Council's Judgement and 1-2 Entreat the Angels for their 3cmc slot), or something like Disenchant.
This color combination, however, opens up the best possible sideboard hate cards. Supreme Verdict is in our colors, as is Rest in Peace. Heck, we can even play Aethersworn Canonist/Meddling Mage in the board to lock up the combo matchup. I also don't hate something like Armageddon in the board to help win the Miracles/Lands/Cloudpost matchup. In any event, let me know what you think.
In regards to your first point: it's true that Rebels as a tribe lacks any serious finisher. It also doesn't have the self-pump of Merfolk or Goblins, nor does it have the explosive elements of Elves. That said, what it does have, is inevitability. Every Rebel can eventually find every other Rebel. As you've noted Mirror Entity does a great job of being tutorable and capable of turning all those individually weak Rebels into giant threats. I can't offer any other win conditions, except the inclusion of the Stoneforge Mystic + Equipment package. That package is not nearly as good as Mirror Entitiy however.
To address the second point: you're entirely correct that Rebels as a tribe are super mana hungry. The problem with Gaia's Cradle as a solution to this is that is a very swingy card. It has a very very high potential power level and a very low power-level floor. In essence, it's a win-more card that requires you to be ahead to be powerful. I'm not saying that effect isn't important: closing out games is a very important thing for decks to do. I am saying that it shouldn't be the only source of ramp in your list.
Therefore, I propose a somewhat radical alternative: Rebel Stompy. Using Mox Diamond, Ancient Tomb, and City of Traitors as your major mana sources really boosts the speed of the assembling Rebels. Simultaneously, you get to play Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere to protect yourself, and more importantly, your Rebels. Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares do an incredibly amount of work against a deck filled with 1/1s. Obviously, this means we have to cut the 1cmc rebels, but that's quite alright as they were poor creatures anyway. Instead, we can play a full 4 copies each of Defiant Falcon, Ramosian Lieutenant, Mirror Entitiy, Whipcorder, Vanguard and 2-3 Lin Sivvi.
It even solves the mana question: a full 4 Caverns are called for, on top of 2-3 Karakas. I don't hate Cradles as well, since extra can be discarded to Mox Diamonds. This sort of slimmed down list does a great job of covering classic Mono-White Stax's issue of having too much mana and not enough threats. In particular, once the first Rebel is on the table, we never have to play into counter magic ever again. That sort of freedom to grind the game out is incredible. I'm going to be doing some light playtesting of this concept as I have such a thing for Stax variants.