I think affinity is enough of a positive matchup that you don't need the stony silences. 0 Ghostly prison 0 Stony 3 ghost quarter is pretty low though, you might need it. How has your affinity matchup been so far?
Generally I am not opposed to cutting the stony silences, but I haven't tried since cutting prison. I think this is something that will require specific testing.
the last few FNMs didn't go too well. While I'm still switching stuff around in my list (black splash), I have some questions to more experienced MartyrProggers:
1st: How do you feel about Sun Titan, Elspeth, Sun's Champion and especially Blood Baron of Vizkopa? If the 6/6 Serra Ascendant plan doesn't work out or there is graveyard hate, other finishers are needed, but which one is the best? (I'm not on the money to go red splash for Nahiri)
2nd: In which matchups is boarding out Serra Ascendant an option?
3rd: What is in your opinion the best graveyard hate?
4th: Thoughts on Nevermore, Runed Halo, Figure of Destiniy and especially Hex Parasite? Even though I originally suggested trying Hex Parasite in the sideboard, I haven't had that much success with it.
1: Blood Baron is excellent vs BGx decks as previously stated. I think Elspeth is better than sun titan, but both are comparable in power level. They are both slow, but take the game over in matchups where you want to win a durdle-fest. This doesn't include BGx since if that is what you are expecting Blood Baron is better by a lot.
2: matchups which are very much in your favor and when you won game 1. Generally this is the aggressive ones. You can side out win conditions and just slow the game down to the point where they cannot win and you can fetch one up later, or just take a 1-0-1 victory. I'm not saying that you should slow play, I'm saying to play at a reasonable pace, but slowroll the victory like a miracles player.
3) Extirpate or Rest in peace. I used to like wheel, but it is just so much worse than RIP in most situations. Everything else is a downgrade from those. The reason RIP is better than wheel is that a lot of times when wheel would be good, proc is not that good. You can easily go low on the recursion and play the more potent hate card.
4) I personally hate all of the name a card enchantments, but I know others have had success with Runed Halo. Figure is not needed for the most part, but Hex Parasite is amazing. Hex parasite is great vs affinity, planeswalkers (nahiri, karn, etc), and randomly hoses other things that rely on counters.
5) I really like Solemn Visitor as a blood baron alternative if you have lingering souls in your deck. Not as good vs BGx, but better in other matchups instead. It is pretty easy to ult him as well. If you have some random chumps out when you cast him, then follow him up with a wrath of god you are in the clear.
Decklist in the primer is from a GP that happened about 2 years ago. I know there are a few mono white players, maybe one of them could post a recent decklist?
I was on esper for a brief period. I ended up cutting all the blue cards except sky hussar (because all the other blue cards are either not worth it or worse than white alternatives)
Here's what it looked like more or less http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/301381#online
I'm pretty sure I went up to 4 maindeck lingering souls after that.
I played 3 casual matches with it vs decks that were completely not meta (except Ad Nauseam) and won each game. I'm not claiming this deck is great, but it is really fun.
@Napkin
Interesting idea. I actually have all the pieces to mardu control/tokens. It shouldn't be too hard for me to pick up a few more cards and try something out. If you get off the "white cards only" thing it opens up room for 1 mana discard which helps smooth out matchups from everything being 80-20 or 20-80. Toolbox ranger proc seems like a fun idea.
Hey everyone. I like Lear's Nahiri idea so I threw together my own mardu list to try it out. It is mostly the same, but with 4 orzhov charm and a crucible of worlds. Crucible has some good synergy with nahiri.
The deck feels good except the manabase is really sketchy. Every loss I had except Ad Nauseam was to decks that attacked my manabase. I think that 24 lands and a crucible would be correct for this decklist, not really sure what I would cut. I'd also mess around with the numbers of each land as well, but I need more time to think about that. I realize that 4 ghost quarter and the 3 blood moons would help with the 2 tron losses, but I really don't think that the manabase can support all of that.
Nahiri was good at filtering and threatening the end of the game, although I only used her ult 3 times it is a nice thing to threaten. The first time I ulted her I actually almost lost to the left over 6/6 scooze. I managed to top deck out of it on the last possible turn though. Hex Parasite was excellent vs affinity, and even managed to kill 2 karns vs tron. Orzhov charm still an all star, and I didn't miss having any maindeck anguished unmakings at any point.
This list is soul sisters, my list is not soul sisters. Typical SS have 12+ sisters in the deck, and I have 3 because I have nothing better to play.
If you really thought that my list was soul sisters then you have no clue about how the archetype works, plain and simple.
Really interesting that you say there is nothing better to play. I've always found that with the sheer number of excellent white control cards in modern that I've had more trouble picking which ones to cut, rather than what to fill the last 3 slots with.
You say you are playing them over Kami and Wayfarer. What parts about them do you like more than those cards?
Is it because you are building more of a midrange white deck than a control deck? I'm just curious. I've been playing BG Seasons past in standard which started out as a deck with 2 creatures and an unbeatable lategame, and now has a ton of midrange creatures in it, so I can see how taking a great lategame package (Dark petition and Seasons past -> martyr and Proc) then jamming it into a deck with better creatures could be appealing for certain metagames.
Beyond the question of the 3 sisters how often have you found that you are forcasting proc? Does it come up at all or do your opponents die too fast for it to be relevant? Does the lack of wraths inhibit your ability to survive that long?
To everyone else:
Yes the deck is more similar to soul sisters than MartyrProc right now, but it could be interesting to see if a real midrange deck (I don't think Lingering souls constitutes midrange on its own) with the package could be good at all. At the very least it is worth discussing and not dismissing immediately.
Yeah there are some situations that come up on the draw with low land count hands that result in playing serra first, however you are basically never against an unknown opponent during your first turn on the draw. Between the specific lands that the deck is playing and whatever their turn 1 play was you can narrow it down to 1-3 decks most of the time.
I don't play serra ascendant on turn 1 basically ever. Unless I think they will stop me from dying before I can get online I let them stay in my hand till they are on.
For me personally the appeal of Mardu is a pile of cheap interaction and pressure. Nahiri is such bad tempo. I recognize that she is good in a different shell that is still in these colors, but its not really what I'm trying to do.
I said that to try and look non-partial in the primer. My real opinion is that if your goal is to be competitive there is no reason to play mono-white in any situation because it is the same deck with fewer tools. I know a lot of people like playing mono white so I didn't want to open up with that
Generally I am not opposed to cutting the stony silences, but I haven't tried since cutting prison. I think this is something that will require specific testing.
1: Blood Baron is excellent vs BGx decks as previously stated. I think Elspeth is better than sun titan, but both are comparable in power level. They are both slow, but take the game over in matchups where you want to win a durdle-fest. This doesn't include BGx since if that is what you are expecting Blood Baron is better by a lot.
2: matchups which are very much in your favor and when you won game 1. Generally this is the aggressive ones. You can side out win conditions and just slow the game down to the point where they cannot win and you can fetch one up later, or just take a 1-0-1 victory. I'm not saying that you should slow play, I'm saying to play at a reasonable pace, but slowroll the victory like a miracles player.
3) Extirpate or Rest in peace. I used to like wheel, but it is just so much worse than RIP in most situations. Everything else is a downgrade from those. The reason RIP is better than wheel is that a lot of times when wheel would be good, proc is not that good. You can easily go low on the recursion and play the more potent hate card.
4) I personally hate all of the name a card enchantments, but I know others have had success with Runed Halo. Figure is not needed for the most part, but Hex Parasite is amazing. Hex parasite is great vs affinity, planeswalkers (nahiri, karn, etc), and randomly hoses other things that rely on counters.
5) I really like Solemn Visitor as a blood baron alternative if you have lingering souls in your deck. Not as good vs BGx, but better in other matchups instead. It is pretty easy to ult him as well. If you have some random chumps out when you cast him, then follow him up with a wrath of god you are in the clear.
Here's what it looked like more or less http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/301381#online
I'm pretty sure I went up to 4 maindeck lingering souls after that.
1 Swamp
1 Shambling Vent
1 Hex Parasite
1 Needle Spires
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Path to Exile
4 Marsh Flats
3 Godless Shrine
4 Orzhov Charm
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Wrath of God
3 Proclamation of Rebirth
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
1 Kami of False Hope
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Blighted Fen
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Thraben Inspector
1 Perimeter Captain
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Dryad Militant
2 Stony Silence
1 Elvish Hexhunter
2 Wrath of God
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Thoughtseize
3 Extirpate
1 Perimeter Captain
Interesting idea. I actually have all the pieces to mardu control/tokens. It shouldn't be too hard for me to pick up a few more cards and try something out. If you get off the "white cards only" thing it opens up room for 1 mana discard which helps smooth out matchups from everything being 80-20 or 20-80. Toolbox ranger proc seems like a fun idea.
6 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
1 Mistveil Plains
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
4 Marsh Flats
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Squadron Hawk
1 Kami of False Hope
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells (17):
4 Orzhov Charm
4 Path to Exile
3 Wrath of God
3 Proclamation of Rebirth
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Anguished Unmaking
1 Hex Parasite
2 Stony Silence
1 Lightning Helix
2 Castigate
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Extirpate
1 Wrath of God
I ran it through a 2 man queue (1-0) and 3 leagues(4-1, 2-3, 4-1) and faced the following matchups:
Temur Delver 2-0
Gitrog Lightning storm dakmor combo 2-0 (so much spice)
Merfolk 2-0
Jeskai Nahiri 2-0
GR Land Destruction 0-2
Dredge 2-0
Elves 2-1
UTron 0-2
GR Tron 0-2
Jund 2-0
Ad Nauseam 1-2
Dredge 2-0
Blue Moon 0-2
Affinity 2-0
Suicide Zoo 2-1
Affinity 2-1
Overall 11-5
The deck feels good except the manabase is really sketchy. Every loss I had except Ad Nauseam was to decks that attacked my manabase. I think that 24 lands and a crucible would be correct for this decklist, not really sure what I would cut. I'd also mess around with the numbers of each land as well, but I need more time to think about that. I realize that 4 ghost quarter and the 3 blood moons would help with the 2 tron losses, but I really don't think that the manabase can support all of that.
Nahiri was good at filtering and threatening the end of the game, although I only used her ult 3 times it is a nice thing to threaten. The first time I ulted her I actually almost lost to the left over 6/6 scooze. I managed to top deck out of it on the last possible turn though. Hex Parasite was excellent vs affinity, and even managed to kill 2 karns vs tron. Orzhov charm still an all star, and I didn't miss having any maindeck anguished unmakings at any point.
Really interesting that you say there is nothing better to play. I've always found that with the sheer number of excellent white control cards in modern that I've had more trouble picking which ones to cut, rather than what to fill the last 3 slots with.
You say you are playing them over Kami and Wayfarer. What parts about them do you like more than those cards?
Is it because you are building more of a midrange white deck than a control deck? I'm just curious. I've been playing BG Seasons past in standard which started out as a deck with 2 creatures and an unbeatable lategame, and now has a ton of midrange creatures in it, so I can see how taking a great lategame package (Dark petition and Seasons past -> martyr and Proc) then jamming it into a deck with better creatures could be appealing for certain metagames.
Beyond the question of the 3 sisters how often have you found that you are forcasting proc? Does it come up at all or do your opponents die too fast for it to be relevant? Does the lack of wraths inhibit your ability to survive that long?
To everyone else:
Yes the deck is more similar to soul sisters than MartyrProc right now, but it could be interesting to see if a real midrange deck (I don't think Lingering souls constitutes midrange on its own) with the package could be good at all. At the very least it is worth discussing and not dismissing immediately.
2 Transgress the mind
2 Ultimate Price
4 Grasp of Darkness
1 Declaration in stone
4 Read the Bones
3 Ruinous Path
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Nissa, vastwood Seer
4 Languish
4 Dark Petition
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Nissa's Renewal
2 Season's past
2 Secure the Wastes
4 Hissing Quagmire
4 Shambling Vents
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Plains
3 Forests
8 Swamps
1 Canopy Vista
1 Westvale Abbey
I need to tune it more, particularly in the manabase, but it feels great so far.