MTG Salvation

The Yasooka version has a much better G2 and 3 against RDW or GDW (atarka splash). You go in with +3 Drown in Sorrow, +1 Bile Blight, +1 Virulent Plague, and that right there lightens up the deck considerably. It actually becomes very manageable. You take out Crux, Ugin, and Thoughtseize to make room for the cards I mentioned. It's not easy, and not having Radiant Fountain makes our life total dwindle faster than we'd like, but, once a dragon hits the board they usually have hard a time finishing us off. Also...just kill everything on sight, 2 for 1 them everywhere. I see some control players wait to make their drowns count more, but really...just wipe the board clean and stifle the life loss. If you don't, they will top deck a burn spell and steal the game. I've been practicing for this match up (I run GDW as a my 2nd Tier 1 Standard Deck) and is very winnable, but not G1. G1 is all about getting to 5 mana and using crux (and just killing stuff on sight), turns 1-4 are you just crossing your fingers in hopes that they do not have the perfect hand. Use scorn as force spike, and 1 v 1 as much as you can. Chances are they'll be able to go wide faster than you can get your 3rd land I've won G1 won with 1 life. Remember you can cast Foul-Tongue Invocation and still net +4 life even if they do not have a creature to sack (As long as you have a Dragon in your hand or in play of course). Just do it, regardless, you want to get out of their burn range.

UB/x vs any aggro is just about making sure you hit lands and stay alive. (this mainly relates to "pure" aggro, like RDW or Warriors)

I'm going to Take Yasooka's version to the PPTQ and see how it goes. I think taking out Duress and adding in +2 Thoughtseize is correct right now, and adding in another Dragonlord's Prerogative in the SB should help in the mirror. His choices are spot on, and there's the option to play it as is, that SB he came up with has answers to everything...pretty impressive. Hard to Pilot though, and is really unforgiving if you misplay. I lost a lot in the beginning because I was to eager to land dragons, and realized Yasooka's version blends Tempo/ w Control (In the vids he always seemed to have "something" to play either as a response or as an answer to a card entering the battlefield). It's a proactive deck that can play out like a UB Midrange (As Killax mentioned):

"So my conclusion here would be, UB Dragons is a whole different deck from UB Control as we used to know it. In fact if anything UB Dragons preform a Midgame deck role backed up by counters where UB Control is the more typical control deck but as a result can suffer huge against aggro match ups who currently are less hinderd by Counters or board sweepes due to the many Dash outs."

One Abzan control players said this exactly, and was like..."Okay, so this deck feels kinda of Midrangey, not only do you counter all my -Bleep- but you go into beat down mode and steal my Elspeth?" lol I lost the match, though, I misplayed the deck and got trigger happy casting dragons. Lesson: Patience.

Esper: Cards are in and will try this build out, I haven't practiced with this version but I'll give it a go tonight.

In Yasooka's build, it's like supa crucial to hit that 5th land game 1 (within the first 6-7 turns). I've been contemplating sacking the Murderous Cut to add another Opulent Palace, which may smooth it out. However there have been times the build just works perfectly and curves out really well. It's resilient to a lot decks, and I see Icefall Regent as pseudo removal. It demands an answer as dropping him telegraphs our intent to close out the game (5 turn clock, and where there's 1 Regent, a 2nd usually follows). I've learned to hold back casting dragons until I have 2 UU up to protect it, I've also used it to bait removal out of their hands and in turn force them out of their game plan, thereby costing them tempo (I like it when an aggressive deck is forced to get out of it's zone and deal with my threats, especially if they lose a turn doing so). Guess I'll know more after Saturday when I take the deck to the PPTQ.

Also, the Esper version allows a lot of top card manipulation. I think the allure with Es..(shouldn't this just be called "Ojuati Control?") is that it can smooth out it's mana curve by having all the scry lands. U/B Dragon Control can have BB or UU available faster T2-T5 I think. These are just my observations.

I guess the best way to break down the current U/B/x lists is:

1) Pro Tour Build (credit to Shouta Yasooka)UB: this one runs Icefall Regent, Dragonlord Silumgar and Silumgar, the Drifting Death in the main. These are the "Dragon Engine" enablers. Dragon Engine= Silumgar's Scorn and Foul-Tongue Invocation. Runs Jace's Ingenuityover Anticipate

2) Esper U/B (this is referred to as the CFB list)UBW: This one runs Dragonlord Ojutai and uses Anticipate over Jace's Ingenuity for card draw. The Dragon Engine stays the same. Splashes W, for mainly for their finisher.

3) Traditional U/B Control (Adrian Sullivan list)UB: This is the one most of us played prior to the release of Dragons of Tarkir. Runs, Pearl Lake Ancient, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Perilous Vault and Liliana Vess as his Win Cons. This is the more old school "Draw Go" deck. Still hell a powerful!

Personally I think the 3rd version is still really good, and while it takes a ton of skill to pilot well, I'm invested in the Yasooka verison right now. Been playing it and am beginning to understand it, along with how to SB correctly now.

What's really interesting are the variations the deck has undergone. I can't remember a standard I've played in where multiple decks had different versions placing! I'm glad I cam back to MTG when I did

Would you say it's just oujati that makes it worth it ? I need to play test them more. Hopefully, my dragonlord's will be here tomorrow. I like the 6 dragons yasookas version has, it usually turns on my scorns really early. In play testing the icefall regent helped by putting my opponent in a real clock (forced some misplays as a result, on their part) and tapping down a rhino is always good too! That said there's so much mana acceleration that the 2 extra it costs to target him can be cast late in game with ease. By that stage in the game we should have multiple dragons grinding it out.

If we to compare the U/B Dragon control (Yasooka) vs Esper Dragon Build what are the pros and cons ? I'm on the U/B a Dragon control build and it feels really strong. I played against the Esper build and beat it , but it was great match of counter magic and hand sculpting or in my case hand disruption via Duress and Thoughtseize. I'm a fan of Icefall Regent but I also like how the Esper version plays out (placed the order for 4 copies of Dragonlord Oujati a few days ago). Seems like the card draw engine works really well in the u/b/w shell but the 12 enter the battlefield tapped lands seem slower. Plus I did watch a few games and not drawing a white source cost a few players the game. So far I've gotten used to the pro tour list but , what do you all think ? With a PPTQ coming to my LGS, I'm having trouble choosing which to run.

I tested the Dragon List (Pro Tour one/Yasooka'S list) and there seems to be a learning curve with it. Unlike the previous U/B lists where you sat back and waited react to an opponents deck, this version seems way more pro active. It has all the right tools to 1 for 1, but it can go into beat down mode and close games out really fast. The clock Icefall Regent 's and the recursion Have of the Spirit provide for real pressure on an opponent. It's not the traditional "draw go" style control that I'm used to, and I was punished for my misplays in my first games. Once I got the hang of it, I saw that the deck left you have a lot of options to solve a problem. I also went 2-2 and part of that is simply adjusting to the new Meta-Game. As control player's it takes us some time to understand the new flavors that are coming out and learning "someone" else's deck in 1 sitting isn't going to cut it. I think the right approach will be be to adjust the deck to our own meta and playing style.

I played the Mirror match, U/B vs the U/B/w version. I beat it, and it was largely due to the dragon package and scorns being active. Also, Foul-Tongue Invocation did a great job of taking care of Dragonlord Ojutai.

Also, tried Dang's Gruul list, and it is brutal. If red becomes more popular (and it will) we're going to need to dedicate more SB slots to handle these decks. went 3-1 with it last night and every game was over in like 7-10 minutes. I had enough time to nab coffee and read comics. Funny thing was, most players pegged me as a control player (apparently we have a certain demeanor?), and when I dropped my first mountain the expression was priceless lol. Is good to test the deck's that rip ours to shreds, just to have a better idea of how to combat it. I still think it's like 30/70 in their favor game 1. G2...survive? I miss the Radiant Fountain PLA life gain synergy.

You're on running 22 land? Your mana curve is low but I'm not sure you'd be able to merit Wingmate Roc coming in from the SB often, i can see that card just sitting in your hand while you wait for the 5th land drop. You could add Athreos, God of Passage or Bile Blight for the token match ups (which in my meta seem to be everywhere, is RDW, Abzan, Jeskai, and uber aggro, so 3 Bile Blight somewhere in your SB might be great for G2 and G3).

LIking your warrior suite, 12 1 drops is nasty, and you curve out to Sorin, plus to do secure the wastes. Sweet deck, 22 lands...I'm not quite sold on that but it looks good.

What your match ups like ? How did you fair against established arch types ? The stores I play at are stupid competitive and Abzan shows up a lot.

Why not drop the fanatic for another chief of the scale or a brutalhordchief?

My dislike for rager is that he normally survives a turn and might create some board advantage but in constructed he seems to not be bomb he can be in limited. Have tested against rdw ? Is brutal and so is the Abzan match up. Both those decks are actually faster

I play tested rager last week vs Jeskai, Abzan Control, and U/W/B control. I'd misread the card and thought that it gave evasion to all warrior type of creatures, and that he didn't need to attack to get that clause going. Sue me, it was my first time playing with the card and when my buddy and I read it a few more times we both began to wonder if he's worth it. It's no mystery that the warrior class creatures get outclassed by turn 3 (Thank you Crouser 2/4 Body that stops everything early on). BY turn 3 -4 your opponent will have something to block your dudes, and or will simply burn him away. Warriors is a deck that needs it's creatures to have impact the turn they enter play, as the current standard "top tier" critters all do that to a degree. hence, I wish I could run 8 Chief of the Edge, but that's never going to happen. The extra +1 on toughness that Chief of the Scale gives is actually important as the game goes into the later rounds. If the deck can get it's critters out of bolt range than they stick around longer to make plays during combat.

Mardu Shadowspear is a card a lot of warrior players tend to be meh about, but the dash ability and 1 damage trigger on combat matters. The warrior deck has little to no evasion, and I think "Rager" was supposed to be that card, but casting a 2/2 Grizzy Bear on T 2 or T3 felt so...slow.

Blood-Chin Fanatic, lets do simple math. He costs 2B and 1 Coloress. His ability costs 1C and 1B to get going, Bloodsoaked Champion, costs 1B and his Raid trigger costs 1B and 1C. If we get the chance to pull off this cute trick, it'll wind up costing us 5 Mana ( attack, Sack/ bring him back). Most warrior decks run 23-22 lands. WHen the heck are we going to have 5 lands open consistently to make this work? I'd rather play Secure the Wastes, get 4-5 dudes, attack with the team and throw down a Gods Willing or give my team some protection. I don't want to sound negative, but I didn't get to activate the abilities once in the 6 matches. Logically, after playing the deck I realized, I'd rather have 4 Battler Brawler's in the deck + Chief of the Scale. There may be the need to include a few 1 drop vanilla flyers as the anthem pump from the lords will help get damage through. An aggro deck like this one doesn't need the best rares, it just needs the right recipe to get through.

I'm gigging these next few weeks, so I won't be able to sit down and work on the deck. That makes me sad but...I'm checking websites daily to see if one of our brews gets it right. I think the deck needs to take cues from the Heroic decks and run Gods Willing, Ajani's Presence or Center Soul <--- This Plus spot removal to get through. Thoughtseize will always be better coming out of the SB against Midrange/Control, there may even be a reason to run Duress out of the SB is control decks keep seeing success. Right now, Control is in a state of change, and adaptation. If there's a time to make the deck work it's now.

Racer

PS.
Rager doesn't add +3 +0 to the team, and in a format that has the best removal, ( I hate using this as an excuse), he never made it there. He didn't get there for me, maybe I need to play test the card more, but when I see cards like Dragon Fodder and Hordeling Outburst I laugh hard because I know my team is about to get the "No" treatment lol Anyways, I want the card to be good, he just...ugh I dislike that he has to put himself into combat. It's conditional evasion and vs tokens it's meh.

I just read the rulings, I guess you have to pay the megamorph cost which sucks. So that's a 6 mana investment for half of Valorous stance? I didn't misuse it Saturday, I thought it might be possible to turn it face up for 2 mana, and not get the counter. I saw a few people doing this during prerelease.

I'm sure I'm not the only one trying to crack this standard archetype. My question to the community, do you think B/W warriors has the tools to be a viable tier 1 or even 1.5 deck? Did it get the tools necessary to give it that extra push?

ON Saturday I piloted a warrior build to a 2-2 finish, I should mention I had 40 minutes to put it together and it was very opportunistic as I wasn't planning on playing. Things being how they were I got off work earlier than expected and took 40 minutes to build this:



I used what I had on me, and this is what was used (A friend jumped in and we put it together as best as we could).
BUdget is not an issue, as I have access to most of the current tier 1 standard staples, but I'm not quite sold Warriors can go all the way yet. The deck steam rolled U/B/W Esper Dragon control and lost to Abzan 1-2. A Jeskai Brew also hosed my dudes as in both games he drew into 3 or his 4 Wild Slash within his first 3 turns!!! Abzan...Drown in Sorrow= death for the team. I overextended, so I did have some misplays here.

With DTT additions, what do you think this deck needs to get there?
Initial observations:
Blood Chin-Rager, is a grizzly bear the turn it comes into play and offers no "immediate effect". Not sure if he's that good, but the card does offer the ground and pound pseudo evasion.
Secure the Wastes, is bonkers good. LIke...end of turn I get 5 dudes while you're tapped put, followed by a Hordechief was GG, 2x. I found myself wanting more in the main board.
Blood-Chin Fanatic I never got to activate his effect so ehh....not sure
Arashwin Foremost has the potential to get nuts with Blood-Chin Rager in play. Sadly it happened once, every other time Arashwin but the dust fast.

The sideboard was a mishmash of stuff , and Hidden Dragonslayer is "okay" but investing into a conditional kill card like this was taxing on the mana base. 3 to morph plus 3 to flip with megamorph? I could just unmorhped for 2 but...call me greedy I wanted the +1 +1 counter.

Updates I think the deck could use:
Thoughtseize
Duress
Hero's Downfall
Banishing Light
Ultimate Price
Bile Blight

Basically Disruption and cards that can pave the way for the dudes to get in.

Anyhow, what have you all tested if anything so far? Ideas on what could work?

Cheers
Racer

Hey everyone a few posts, I posted my concerns about U/B's match against Abzan Control. Anyone have experience with this match up? I've won a games against it, but that was mainly due to me decking them. It was a good game but frustrating to go against. So if you have any advice in this match up, please give some advice. Prior to that tournament the deck had performed well. I piloted a friend's Abzan control list and it felt like it pretty much piloted itself, it felt really easy to work with. I prefer U/B style control, and am looking forward to the new standard season with DTT additions. Anyone brew and test yet?

Anticipate is great, can Dragolord Silumgar and Silmugar's Scorn make the cut? I really like Icefall Regent, too, but I'm not sure if this can be a possible finisher.

I did 2 Prelease events, both times I Chose Silumgar's Brood. 1st night I went 2-1 and next day I went 3-1. I really enjoyed the exploit Mechanic, I always felt I had something to do with my critters, whether that be giving something -3-3, or trading up an early turn creature for card draw or an "effect". I lost hard to B/R (Kolagahan's Brood), both losses were to seriously amped up Dash decks which were simply way to good imo. Consider that I was 0-2 in both matches on different days against B/R, funny thing was I started the night losing and then avoided all the B/R match ups and won every match there after.

As for Dragons, I pulled my bombs, Dragonlord Silumgar was a power house the first night, I stole a 5/5 fish lol Stole another 4/4 Dragon that had a billion counters and overall had a blast with him. Next day I pulled Necromaster Dragon, Deathbringer Regent and Acid-Spewer Dragon. Play of the day was:

I'm at 1, he has over 12 critters on the battlefield (He had used Secure the Wastes earlier for 7 !), I'm holding Deathbringer since my opening hand. I get my 7th land, blow up the world, and he just proceeds to go WTF! I top deck the Necromaster and take the game home in 3 turns. So many good removal spells in Black right now that are just great for limited, it's not an easy mechanic to understand at first, but cantrips are my style so I will be drafting U/B quite a bit! Yay for Dragons, had a blast.

Played last night and got wrecked by Abzan, their deck is so much better. I answered as much as I could before succumbing to tasigur , rhino, courser , and fleecemane (not all at the same time but, in different match ups, it was an Abzan filled local Tournament). That deck (the control version) can kill all of our threats so actually making our stuff stick is hard. The fact that they run better card draw via Abzan charm and courser (mana fixing / life gain) makes ub control feel like it's racing a Ferrari vs a station wagon. I did a lot right in my match ups, drew cards, played draw go , but once one of their threats stuck it was a huge problem as all of their threats are really good. I think ub needs more support right now but even though we have decent match ups our card quality is very lacking right now. It's the first time I felt like the deck was outclassed.

Sideboard:
Full set of Thoughtseize
2 Negate
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
+2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver

Due to the fact that they can curve out so well, it put me on the defensive right away, and once I ran out of enough "NO" spells, it got really hard to answer things. Maybe Dragons of Tarkir will help ( I doubt it), but the one win I had was against Sultai Control 2-1. I succumbed to Mono Red in the first game, that is another extremely hard match (went 1-2, he topped decked a Stoke, right after I stabilized).

Love how some players say it's a bad deck but it still manages to place in events. It's like talking tactics in a football match. It's not how you win that matters it's that you win when it counts. If I want to play for fun, I'll pilot some cute, but the tier 1 decks aren't cute they're very good at what they are going for. U/B is draw go style, not cuteness, no flashy moments, just "Umm, nope that doesn't resolve, or sure, but I'll..." Sultai...it's the tomatillo sauce of control and I like that too.

On the flip side, I'm not a fan of decks that run 30-31 creatures. When I see that I'm always saying "Timmy!!" to myself.