Well, I'm going to regionals again (Aiming high again! 4th and beyond). I still have my notes on your SB Sicsmoo, was wondering what your thoughts are on these match ups:
Izzet Pheonix and Mono Red
Last Regionals I beat Izzet Pheonix 2-0 in the Quarters, G1 I remember knocking on the top of my deck and just believing in the Heart of the Cards. I was gifted with a top deck Wurmcoil Engine, Never didn't have it . My SB'ing was improvised, something like:
Out: -1 Stone, -1 Ugin, -2 Karn, -2 Ballista, -1 Ulamog
In: +1 Wail, +2 Claim, +3 Thragtusk, +2 Surgical
The last league I played, I did this against mono red phoenix:
Treated it like a half way Burn Sb Plan:
Out: -2 Ballista, -1 Ulamog, -1 Ugin, -2 Stone, -2 Karn, -1 Relic (good but I shaved 1 from my main down to 2), 1 Sphere
In: +3 Claim (I still run 4, it's like a rabbit's foot for me), +3 Thragtusk, +2 Spatial Contortion, +2 Surgical
I did't like TKS here, not sure why, I did want the Surgicals.
I know how to board against everything else, but these match ups are always a shuffle. Any input is would be greatly appreciated. Thnx!
Hey all, been a while. A bit too much Arena, needed to get to playing T3 Karns First league I went 4-1 beating favorites like:
Burn 2-0
Mono Red Pheonix 2-1
Bant Spirits 2-0
Bad Tron (A La Mono Blue) 2-1
But for the life of me I can never beat UW Control and saw my 5-0 wings clipped by Field of Ruin.
Wasn't sure if Tron was still good...pfft of course it is. Is Tarmoboy something we can pick up again? I wasn't a huge fan of Surgical during that league but I would think with burn/R decks seeing a Renaissance, we might look back towards gofy? I haven't been playing that much modern but with Regionals coming up on March 9th, I'm sleeving up Karn's.
I would recommend trying drastic things right now. Main deck RIP, Main deck Leyline's and see what happens. We are reaching a point in the meta where you have to wonder if this isn't the correct route. The top tier decks require disruption + Hate + a clock. All during T1-4. That's a lot to ask for on curve. When linear decks can ignore this, due to them being so resilient, it may be time for midrange-fair decks to just jam this kind of hate. I tried 4 main decl RIP in my extinct Bant Eldrazi deck, and it did exacttly what I wanted. Nuke these things asap, and as much as we want to try and complain. We need to try things out. For those of competing/grinding there is little reason to not play the established tier 1. That's unfortunate because that does mean modern is not as diverse as we are told.
Midrange is now allocated to Izzet Pheonix. Let that sink in. GB/x, GW/x are not even in close atm.
Have been tinkering with Bant lately. I tested 3 ques with a new version, went 2-1 and then tested again in the practice rooms to net some data, and I found that what I set out to beat I crushed.
The highlight was beating storm 2-0 and a temur midrange deck 2-1.
Vs Storm , I turn 2 RIP G1. My opponent paused for a moment Yes we have hit the point to where this kind of warping to a Main 60 is necessary.
He creates 40 Goblin tokens. I untap cast ee for 0 and that is game. G2 I boarded in 2 Grafdigger's Cage and 2 Damping Sphere. That is 8 combo hose in the main, 4 of those findable off of stirrings. I dropped the sphere on 2 and he conceded T7.
The meta is heavily warping atm, and it's time for drastic measures. I decided to play 4 Rest in Peace in the main, alongside a set of creatures that do not care about the graveyard zone. The eldrazi are the best way to abuse this kind of hate.
Here's the list I'm working with: It is super hateful, I need to test more but I think against, Combo like Storm, KCI, and the established tier 1, Pheonix and burn to a degree this deck should have a shot. While we are still weak to other tribal decks we do have tools to work with. Beat merfolk 2-0 and that had a lot to do with EE and Displacer shutting down the team.
I am going to test this list and see how it fairs. Bant Eldrazi had the absolute best SB in modern a one point. Maybe it can comeback. This list is geared to hose Combo, and decks that abuse GY. It's weaker in midrange mirrors, but still great against GDS variants.
Did the meta not shift to beat KCI? Or were we all fooled into thinking we had actually done it? The truth may be that the deck was heavily underplayed and that we are not all the "pro player" we all hope to be. It seems like KCI is the defacto best deck in modern in the hands of someone truly understands the ins and outs of the deck. If this is true, then it really only loses to itself. While we as players can board into "Stony, Relics, Leylines, Claims, Wet Balls, Ect ect", it may be that we are misunderstanding what a real clock is. Izzet Archlight decks clock well and have an insane ability cantrip. This allows pilots to find their SB cards, hold up disruption and pressure all that same time.
GB/x decks do not have that filtering, tribal decks do not have the ability to churn through their deck and "find" their SB cards in time for them all to matter. Sure sometimes you draw them but these decks rely on drawing them. Izzet decks alongside Shadow decks can actively dig for answers via their cantrips. So the argument that all we need to do is pack disruption is flawed. We need a clock, SB cards and the ability to "find" them in time to matter. KCI does this as well, it has an one of the best "find X colorless thing" card in modern Ancient Stirrings. In the past we had Humans and now Spirits touted as being the answer to KCI! Were we wrong? Today's GP and SCG indicate that maybe we were mislead?
I don't know if we all comprehend what it means to actually "hate" out KCI. It has not been relegated to being just another deck. Most Pros agree that it's not played heavily due to how difficult it is to pilot on mtgo. Since most testing is done on there, the meta view may be incorrect. KCI taking 4 top 8 slots is going to raise red flags. Should we all start tune our starting 60 to include 4 leylines + 3 relics? Do we all need to have 3-4 RIP in our W decks (main deck!?). That's a lot to ask for, and would be extremely warping.
So, how do we actually hate out KCI before we keep asking for it to banned. Is Reid Duke right? Survival of the fittest? We should try and beat it in every which way possible first. Haven't we already tried for an an entire year?
got to platinum ! but that tier is a whole lotta of ub/x control so back to the drawing board. merry christmas dino ladder climbers!
Upadtes:
Got to Platinum tier 3 after taking a day off to do X Mas stuff.
I upadted my list and have added 3x Ranging Raptors. Commune with Dinosaurs was the weakest card for me overall, and I wanted to rely on raw power the dino tribe creatures offer. Alongside that, I like the enrage mechanic and there have already been matches where Cannonade + Raptor triggers get you a land/ or draw you card (thus is cycles itself). It seems like Bo1 really wants to maximize power level and leveraging your main deck to be against what you want it to be good against.
Clarion vs Cannonade, I like playing this kind of effect at instant speed and since I want an instant speed trigger enrage I prefer cannonde. Today's matches in ranked were a clean x-2 to tier 3 Plantinum. The worst match ups for my version have been heavy B/x control style decks and Jeskai decks running multiple settles and novas. That's not what I tuned to beat, I aimed to make the GB/x match up better and Raptors + Cannonade have helped a ton! CLearing their blockers and making giant Tyrants alongside reggie's have improved the Bo1.
Current list: (made to Tier 3 Platinum only playing Rg Dinos, the gruul player in me is very happy!)
So competitive Bo1 dinos has been my chore this week. I decided to add 4 fiery cannonade to the main and promptly got to gold tier 3 tonight.
I also added 2 Vivien to the main as another piece of interaction against drakes and a way to seeing more cards against control. Last hour was a 6-2 overall record. the cannonades were great overall, as it cleared blockers, trigger enrage off ripjaw and made stomp much more brutal.
Ranked Arena Bo1 posed some interesting deck design choices. Adding 4 cannonade felt odd but wiping tokens and opposing manadorks has been pretty decent. Hope to make platninum before x mas!
added:
Ranked up to Gold tier 1 tonight. Cannonade has been great at clearing GB's chumpers. Played against BBD and lost in a close one! I top decked 4 reggies, but we each got down to 1 card, it so happened his card was Expansion/ Explosion, and this after I landed a Tyrant Match was great!
Hey all, jammed Ari Lax's list today on mtgo and went 4-1. If everyone is riding the Pheonix train, thenEidolon of the Great Revel is a pretty sweet spot to exploit. Beat 2 izzet decks 2-0 and they weren't close. What do all think of his SB? I haven't play with Tormond's Crypt since like 2007
Anyhow that league was:
Vs Mardu Pyromancer 2-1 Win
Vs Izzet Phoenix 2-0 Win
Vs Hollow One 1-2 Loss (Boo)
Vs Mono Blue Tron 2-1 Win
Vs Izzet Pheonix 2-0 Win
Hey, I like treasure chests and getting more play pts. If burn is good for a few weeks, fine by me.
So far I've gone the distance with RG Dinos in 1 competitive standard event on Arena (SB'ing one, I'm still new to the platform). Went x-1 and got the full payout.
Wins
Vs Jeskai Control 2-1
Vs Izzet Drakes 2-1
Vs Big Red 2-0
Vs Mono Red 2-0
Vs can't remember
Loss
Vs Golgari Midrange 1-2
I'm keeping track and updating my SB Plans
Have cut the 3rd Vivien from my Sb in favor of 4 Fiery Cannonade. That card has helped against the red decks.
Cannonade is probably fine for arena.
I found Golgari Midrange to be quite unfavorable -- especially if we don't jump on them with an aggressive start.
I'm interested in trying a card like Sarkhan's Unsealing in the SB. This was a "design-around-me" card when M19 first came out. But taking a turn off against a deck like Izzet drakes or RDW isn't a reasonable proposal. However, a deck like Golgari Midrange basically just chumps until they get to Carnage Tyrant + Find // Finality. This pushes through damage and doesn't let them sit behind an explore chumping engine. This idea is untested but probably worth a shot.
Yah, I played another league and lost 2x to Golgari. I started thinking about boarding in Cannonades to clear the chump blockers. That said, I beat Izzet Drakes 2-0, GW Tokens 2-0 and Jeskai Control 2-1. I have a feeling that this deck will improve a lot once we have full spoilers. Unsealing is also a card I considered but I haven't tried it yet.
Feels like we are good against:
Aggro (all forms)
Izzet Drakes (Ripjaw + Stomp is very powerful, plus our top end threats out class their removal)
Jeskai Control( We can pressure them very well and Banefire out if the SB is a nice opps I win button after they cast Settle the Wreckage
Dimir (Well...Tyrant is very good against them and so are our 4/5's and Reggie's)
Meh match ups:
Golgari, yeah well...
Tokens G1 is hard, G2 4 Cannonade go a long way
Nexus
Mono Green Stompy (They just get way bigger and go over the top, this may just be an arena deck)
So far I've gone the distance with RG Dinos in 1 competitive standard event on Arena (SB'ing one, I'm still new to the platform). Went x-1 and got the full payout.
Wins
Vs Jeskai Control 2-1
Vs Izzet Drakes 2-1
Vs Big Red 2-0
Vs Mono Red 2-0
Vs can't remember
Loss
Vs Golgari Midrange 1-2
I'm keeping track and updating my SB Plans
Have cut the 3rd Vivien from my Sb in favor of 4 Fiery Cannonade. That card has helped against the red decks.
Whenever I tried to target my own dino, stomp cost 2cmc, not one. Apparently it was like this for a bit since I wasnt the only player reporting the bug.
On the hand I built the entire gr dino deck on arena so...:-) i have been crushing the kibler challenge and stealing gold! so fun! t3 cast a ripjaw draw a card.
The main issue is the speed of the format. Decks are very lean so, having access to more 3 drops that impact the board (reshaper, spawner and Displacer) help to keep you from falling behind. The best starts are T2-3 TKS/Smasher. The only reason to consider playing Bant over colorless is the SB. I know this deck hasn't put up a ton of results lately and that may have to do with how poor Path to Exile is against the threats of the format. Decks get on board fast so path'ing a 1-3cmc creature helps ramp the opponent. In decks UW control whatever, ramp all you want, but in decks like Bant Eldrazi where we play a much "fairer" curve out based approach. Allowing opponents to keep up with you is rough. I'd test a lot and probably will run Bant in a few leagues to see how it fairs.
I'm back, got my pc fixed up and have been jamming again. Went 3-2 the other night and played against 2 archlight variants. The UR I feel like we are favored (in my regionals top 8, I beat that version) World Breaker shines quite a bit here. I do remember top decking a wurmcoil when I was 1 turn away from being dead, but those are just tron luxuries.
The Mono red version is a nightmare, straight up nightmare. (steam kin varaint feels like we aren't supposed win that often, I assume more Ballistas can help but once Kin gets going it's over quickly)
Mono red no steam kin, feels beatable. But they can also 15 you out of no where so...yeah. I'm heading to GP Oakland and pretty much settled on tron. How do we feel about 4 Basics and another utility land? With UW on the decline, I can see myself running 4 forest and 1 Scavenger Grounds.
I'm not sure how Bant currently stacks up against the top tier decks. Dredge was always close but chill really speeds up their clock. Your SB looks exactly like mine except 2 Knight of Autumn.
If Grixis Deathshadow picks up, and the format goes midrange to fight back against the Izzet decks; Then Bant Eldrazi can make a comeback. I like a 3/3 Split between reshaper and spawner. I was trying Boreal Druid in my main as way to consistently play TKS or Smasher on T3. It also helps against Blood Moon since the elf produces C.
After testing a bunch, I keep winning in practice mode on mtgo. I tried to play another league but Savage Stomp is bugged. I do think this arch type is being held back because of mana; Stomping Ground is necessary. With the new set coming, I've started trading my wild cards on Arena for dinos, got myself all 4 tyrants already and am missing a few. On mtgo well, I just rent the deck.
Belated Congrats on the PPTQ win!
I'm still running the list above and have been patiently waiting for the new set.
Izzet Pheonix and Mono Red
Last Regionals I beat Izzet Pheonix 2-0 in the Quarters, G1 I remember knocking on the top of my deck and just believing in the Heart of the Cards. I was gifted with a top deck Wurmcoil Engine, Never didn't have it . My SB'ing was improvised, something like:
Out: -1 Stone, -1 Ugin, -2 Karn, -2 Ballista, -1 Ulamog
In: +1 Wail, +2 Claim, +3 Thragtusk, +2 Surgical
The last league I played, I did this against mono red phoenix:
Treated it like a half way Burn Sb Plan:
Out: -2 Ballista, -1 Ulamog, -1 Ugin, -2 Stone, -2 Karn, -1 Relic (good but I shaved 1 from my main down to 2), 1 Sphere
In: +3 Claim (I still run 4, it's like a rabbit's foot for me), +3 Thragtusk, +2 Spatial Contortion, +2 Surgical
I did't like TKS here, not sure why, I did want the Surgicals.
I know how to board against everything else, but these match ups are always a shuffle. Any input is would be greatly appreciated. Thnx!
Burn 2-0
Mono Red Pheonix 2-1
Bant Spirits 2-0
Bad Tron (A La Mono Blue) 2-1
But for the life of me I can never beat UW Control and saw my 5-0 wings clipped by Field of Ruin.
Wasn't sure if Tron was still good...pfft of course it is. Is Tarmoboy something we can pick up again? I wasn't a huge fan of Surgical during that league but I would think with burn/R decks seeing a Renaissance, we might look back towards gofy? I haven't been playing that much modern but with Regionals coming up on March 9th, I'm sleeving up Karn's.
Midrange is now allocated to Izzet Pheonix. Let that sink in. GB/x, GW/x are not even in close atm.
The highlight was beating storm 2-0 and a temur midrange deck 2-1.
Vs Storm , I turn 2 RIP G1. My opponent paused for a moment Yes we have hit the point to where this kind of warping to a Main 60 is necessary.
He creates 40 Goblin tokens. I untap cast ee for 0 and that is game. G2 I boarded in 2 Grafdigger's Cage and 2 Damping Sphere. That is 8 combo hose in the main, 4 of those findable off of stirrings. I dropped the sphere on 2 and he conceded T7.
The meta is heavily warping atm, and it's time for drastic measures. I decided to play 4 Rest in Peace in the main, alongside a set of creatures that do not care about the graveyard zone. The eldrazi are the best way to abuse this kind of hate.
Here's the list I'm working with: It is super hateful, I need to test more but I think against, Combo like Storm, KCI, and the established tier 1, Pheonix and burn to a degree this deck should have a shot. While we are still weak to other tribal decks we do have tools to work with. Beat merfolk 2-0 and that had a lot to do with EE and Displacer shutting down the team.
List:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Drowner of Hope
Spells: 8
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to Exile
Artifact: 1
1 Engineered Explosives
Enchantments: 4
4 Rest in Peace
1 Breeding Pool
3 Brushland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
3 Yavimaya Coast
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Natural State
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Damping Sphere
4 Stony Silence
I am going to test this list and see how it fairs. Bant Eldrazi had the absolute best SB in modern a one point. Maybe it can comeback. This list is geared to hose Combo, and decks that abuse GY. It's weaker in midrange mirrors, but still great against GDS variants.
GB/x decks do not have that filtering, tribal decks do not have the ability to churn through their deck and "find" their SB cards in time for them all to matter. Sure sometimes you draw them but these decks rely on drawing them. Izzet decks alongside Shadow decks can actively dig for answers via their cantrips. So the argument that all we need to do is pack disruption is flawed. We need a clock, SB cards and the ability to "find" them in time to matter. KCI does this as well, it has an one of the best "find X colorless thing" card in modern Ancient Stirrings. In the past we had Humans and now Spirits touted as being the answer to KCI! Were we wrong? Today's GP and SCG indicate that maybe we were mislead?
I don't know if we all comprehend what it means to actually "hate" out KCI. It has not been relegated to being just another deck. Most Pros agree that it's not played heavily due to how difficult it is to pilot on mtgo. Since most testing is done on there, the meta view may be incorrect. KCI taking 4 top 8 slots is going to raise red flags. Should we all start tune our starting 60 to include 4 leylines + 3 relics? Do we all need to have 3-4 RIP in our W decks (main deck!?). That's a lot to ask for, and would be extremely warping.
So, how do we actually hate out KCI before we keep asking for it to banned. Is Reid Duke right? Survival of the fittest? We should try and beat it in every which way possible first. Haven't we already tried for an an entire year?
Upadtes:
Got to Platinum tier 3 after taking a day off to do X Mas stuff.
I upadted my list and have added 3x Ranging Raptors. Commune with Dinosaurs was the weakest card for me overall, and I wanted to rely on raw power the dino tribe creatures offer. Alongside that, I like the enrage mechanic and there have already been matches where Cannonade + Raptor triggers get you a land/ or draw you card (thus is cycles itself). It seems like Bo1 really wants to maximize power level and leveraging your main deck to be against what you want it to be good against.
Clarion vs Cannonade, I like playing this kind of effect at instant speed and since I want an instant speed trigger enrage I prefer cannonde. Today's matches in ranked were a clean x-2 to tier 3 Plantinum. The worst match ups for my version have been heavy B/x control style decks and Jeskai decks running multiple settles and novas. That's not what I tuned to beat, I aimed to make the GB/x match up better and Raptors + Cannonade have helped a ton! CLearing their blockers and making giant Tyrants alongside reggie's have improved the Bo1.
Current list: (made to Tier 3 Platinum only playing Rg Dinos, the gruul player in me is very happy!)
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Drover of the Mighty
3 Ranging Raptors
3 Thrashing Brontodon
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Regisaur Alpha
4 Carnage Tyrant
4 Fiery Cannonade
4 Thunderherd Migration
4 Savage Stomp
Lands:
4 Rootbound Crag
12 Forest
7 Mountain
I also added 2 Vivien to the main as another piece of interaction against drakes and a way to seeing more cards against control. Last hour was a 6-2 overall record. the cannonades were great overall, as it cleared blockers, trigger enrage off ripjaw and made stomp much more brutal.
Ranked Arena Bo1 posed some interesting deck design choices. Adding 4 cannonade felt odd but wiping tokens and opposing manadorks has been pretty decent. Hope to make platninum before x mas!
RG Dinos Bo1 Deck I'm currently using:
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Drover of the Mighty
3 Thrashing Brontodon
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Regisaur Alpha
4 Carnage Tyrant
4 Thunderherd Migration
4 Savage Stomp
4 Fiery Cannonade
Planeswalker
2 Vivien Reid
4 Rootbound Crag
12 Forest
7 Mountain
added:
Ranked up to Gold tier 1 tonight. Cannonade has been great at clearing GB's chumpers. Played against BBD and lost in a close one! I top decked 4 reggies, but we each got down to 1 card, it so happened his card was Expansion/ Explosion, and this after I landed a Tyrant Match was great!
Anyhow that league was:
Vs Mardu Pyromancer 2-1 Win
Vs Izzet Phoenix 2-0 Win
Vs Hollow One 1-2 Loss (Boo)
Vs Mono Blue Tron 2-1 Win
Vs Izzet Pheonix 2-0 Win
Hey, I like treasure chests and getting more play pts. If burn is good for a few weeks, fine by me.
Yah, I played another league and lost 2x to Golgari. I started thinking about boarding in Cannonades to clear the chump blockers. That said, I beat Izzet Drakes 2-0, GW Tokens 2-0 and Jeskai Control 2-1. I have a feeling that this deck will improve a lot once we have full spoilers. Unsealing is also a card I considered but I haven't tried it yet.
Feels like we are good against:
Aggro (all forms)
Izzet Drakes (Ripjaw + Stomp is very powerful, plus our top end threats out class their removal)
Jeskai Control( We can pressure them very well and Banefire out if the SB is a nice opps I win button after they cast Settle the Wreckage
Dimir (Well...Tyrant is very good against them and so are our 4/5's and Reggie's)
Meh match ups:
Golgari, yeah well...
Tokens G1 is hard, G2 4 Cannonade go a long way
Nexus
Mono Green Stompy (They just get way bigger and go over the top, this may just be an arena deck)
Wins
Vs Jeskai Control 2-1
Vs Izzet Drakes 2-1
Vs Big Red 2-0
Vs Mono Red 2-0
Vs can't remember
Loss
Vs Golgari Midrange 1-2
I'm keeping track and updating my SB Plans
Have cut the 3rd Vivien from my Sb in favor of 4 Fiery Cannonade. That card has helped against the red decks.
On the hand I built the entire gr dino deck on arena so...:-) i have been crushing the kibler challenge and stealing gold! so fun! t3 cast a ripjaw draw a card.
3 Stony Silence
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Natural State
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Engineered Explosives
The main issue is the speed of the format. Decks are very lean so, having access to more 3 drops that impact the board (reshaper, spawner and Displacer) help to keep you from falling behind. The best starts are T2-3 TKS/Smasher. The only reason to consider playing Bant over colorless is the SB. I know this deck hasn't put up a ton of results lately and that may have to do with how poor Path to Exile is against the threats of the format. Decks get on board fast so path'ing a 1-3cmc creature helps ramp the opponent. In decks UW control whatever, ramp all you want, but in decks like Bant Eldrazi where we play a much "fairer" curve out based approach. Allowing opponents to keep up with you is rough. I'd test a lot and probably will run Bant in a few leagues to see how it fairs.
The Mono red version is a nightmare, straight up nightmare. (steam kin varaint feels like we aren't supposed win that often, I assume more Ballistas can help but once Kin gets going it's over quickly)
Mono red no steam kin, feels beatable. But they can also 15 you out of no where so...yeah. I'm heading to GP Oakland and pretty much settled on tron. How do we feel about 4 Basics and another utility land? With UW on the decline, I can see myself running 4 forest and 1 Scavenger Grounds.
If Grixis Deathshadow picks up, and the format goes midrange to fight back against the Izzet decks; Then Bant Eldrazi can make a comeback. I like a 3/3 Split between reshaper and spawner. I was trying Boreal Druid in my main as way to consistently play TKS or Smasher on T3. It also helps against Blood Moon since the elf produces C.
Belated Congrats on the PPTQ win!
I'm still running the list above and have been patiently waiting for the new set.